HomeMy WebLinkAbout2009-06-01 (Regular) Meeting Minutes•
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1. Call to Order
ENGLEWOOD CITY COUNCIL
ENGLEWOOD, ARAPAHOE COUNTY, COLORADO
Regular Session
June 1, 2009
The regular meeting of the Englewood City Council was called to order by Mayor Woodward at 7:36 p.m.
2. Invocation
The invocation was given by Council Member Mccaslin .
3. Pledge of Allegiance
The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Council Member Mccaslin.
,,. Roll Call
Present:
Absent:
Council Members Jefferson , Moore , Penn , Oakley , Mccaslin , Wilsen,
Woodward
None
A quorum was present.
Also present: City Manager Sears
City Attorney Brotzman
Deputy City Manager Flaherty
Deputy City Clerk Bush
Director Gryglewicz, Finance and Administrative Services
Operations Superintendent McCormick, Utilities
Director White , Community Development
Housing Finance Specialist Grimmett , Community Development
Planner Voboril , Community Development
Chief Building Official Smith , Building and Safety
Victim Witness Coordinator Wenig , Police
Poli ce Commander Watson
5. Consideration of Mlnutaa of Previous Session
(a) COUNCIL MEMBER PENN MOVED , AND COUNCIL MEMBER McCASLIN SECONDED, TO
APPROVE THE MINUTES OF THE REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF MAY 18, 2009 .
Mayor Woodward asked if there were any correct ions or modi fi cations . There were none .
Vote results :
Motion carried.
Aye s: Council Members Penn , Mccasl in, Moore , Woodward, Jefferson ,
Wilson , Oakley
Nays : None
Recognition of Scheduled Public Comment
(a) Martha Griego , an Englewood resident , said City Council , the reason I am here is to help the
chi ldren get Jason Park bac k. I will give you a little history . I hav e lived in the same home for the past 27 yea rs
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June 1, 2009
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and my kids have always gone to Jason Par k and now my grandbab ies love to go there as well . Fo r the past
two years I've had numerous troubles with the dogs at Jason Park . I have never said anything to the Council.
From dogs runn ing to us , and we have to freeze until the owners come , to the dogs com ing to the picnic area
when we have food and we have to chase them away . And the last straw was when I was with my three
granddaughters ages 5, 3 and 2. We were on the playground and a dog was within 5 feet of me and he
growied . I was terrified not knowing what this dog wo uld do . Malea had surgery the previous week and was
restricted to no running , crying or scream ing . She was holding my leg and though my thoughts were racing , I
tried not to panic these children . One week after the Incident... with the dog growling ... the grandbabies wanted
to go back to the park . So , we went back and a wh ite dog came on to the playground . There were kids on the
sl ide , including one of my grandbab ies . There was a teenager sitt ing on the bottom of the slide and his sister
was on the top and Malea , she was also on the slide . And I was on the south side of the park with my other two
grandbab les and he was tryi ng lo shoo the dog away. Meanwhile , the owner kept calling the dog and the dog
refused lo listen . I was on the south side just swing in g with the kids when I not iced what was go ing on so I
stJrted walking toward them lo help chase the dog away . The teenager finally threw an object al him and th e
dog ran lo its owner. The kids were then able to go down the slide and continue play ing . I'm aware that
Englewood has a group that supports the unleashed dog parks and they have their own website . I have looked
at this website to see what the ir thoughts are and found there is a mission , rules and etiquettes to abide by .
Th is group has the right idea for the ir dogs , but there is no fact find ing in their beliefs and the rules they have set
are not be ing followed . Their mission ... bel 'efs ... ind icates ... number one ... that dogs can exercise without leash
restraints in a clean , healthy and safe environment and number two to cultivate community spirit and
neighborhood relations through various outreach efforts and number three lo provide a safe , clean and
access ible environment where dog owners aad their can ine compan ions can exercise and socialize . They have
12 rules and 7 rules are not being followed , as you will see in the pictures I have taken . Four of the ru les I
wouldn 't know abou t... number one ... no dogs in heat allowed, number two ... dog was vaccinated , number
three ... use of park al your own risk and number four ... no dogs under 4 months . The last one Is to abide by park
rule s. They also have this standard letter that is to be sent to City Council in support of unleashed dog parks .
One paragraph reads that "I bel ieve that dogs that are able to exercise vigorously, play and interact with other
dogs and people are less likely to bark and behave inappropriately with in the ir own ne ighborhoods . The result
is a safer, happier community for dog owners and non -dog owners alike ." If this is true , then why are the dogs
not in control , why are thay not behaving appropriately ? I am giving you pictures that I have taken during this
last week . I went there to observe for j ust one hour and , after the th ird day , I couldn 't take it anymore . I was
getting more furious with the owner s. They have dis regarded the children at Jason Park . The pictures will show
that the rules are not be in g followed . Numbe r one is the dogs are not being controlled b:• voice command ,
number two ... dogs are not leashed when kids are at play , number three ... owners do not carry leashe s with
them , number four ... dogs are not leashed when entering the park , number 5 ... dogs run where they want to
without the owners , number six ... owners are not pick ing up their dog poop , number seven ... a child brings his
dog into the park and he was about ten years old and numbe r eight. .. the child was not superv ised by an adult,
number nine .. they are not following park rules as posted at Jason Park . Marily n Lamb , Animal Control , was at
the park when the dog growled at me and I showed her that there was poop in the middle of the playground .
The owners believe that the park is thei r backyard and no one should be threatened by the ir dog and that they
have total control of th ei r an imal. There is a City Code that Ind icate s if the dog is in the front yard , and t~ere Is
no fencing , then you mus t have the dog on a leash . This prot ects other people . Bu t now that a dog is at a park ,
and the ch ildren are runn ing around , why are the dogs able to run loose ? I don 't understand why you can 't
protect us at the park as well . The re is a dog park , just a littl e over one minute tram Jason Par k. This park was
made specifically fo r dogs . These dogs can exercise free ly , be safe and hav e a clean env ironment , as well as
socialize with other dogs and people , as indicated in their miss ion . Why do the children have to lose the ir
freedom of running free , be ing safe and hav ing a clean environment , because of the dogs ? Why do they need
to be scared cf do gs runn ing up to the m, ba rk ing or growl in g at them ? We need to remember that these are
ch ildren that can be smaller than the dogs that co me up to them . What h~s happened to the safe , clean
environment that Jason Park once had ? We need to remember that dogs are animals and not humans . The y
will bite , growl , ba rk , run where they want to ... no matter how man y ti mes we call them . We had a dog for
eighteen years and he was an excellent dog that ab ided by our commands . But tt,ere was a time or two that he
refused to liste n lo us and we had lo go get him. As I ind icaled ... a dog is going tr, do what he wants to , no
ma tter how many commands you giv e him. He is an animal . He is not a human . I'm ask ing City Council to look
at the pictu re s I have taken and to make the final deci sion to give the ch il dren ba ck the park ... without having to
share ii with the dogs . Th is will give the children a safe and clean environru nt. They can play free r,, and not
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Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
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have to worr y about anything . No po op, no dogs bark ing , no dogs growl ing , no dogs tak ing food from the ir
hands . We must also remember that th is park was bu ilt for the children and their famil ie s to enjoy picn ics and to
pla y freely . Let's give th is park back to the children and let the dogs go to Bellev iew Park . Thank you . I will
give you these pictures . but I will ask that when you are done looking at these pictures , if you could please
return one to me . I wou ld really appreciate It. Thank yo u for your consideration .
(b) Tracy Jones , a Highlands Ranch res ident , sa id I am here today to talk about the problems I've
run Into at Jason Park with unleashed dogs . In the last year, I th ink , that has become a dangerous park , ,Jue to
owners that are not able to control the ir dogs . I made a complaint last summer to the Parks Divis ion , because I
had enough of dogs approaching me and my kids ... who are 5, 3 and 2 ... aggress ively . Two major inc idents
happened last summer. along with some minor ones ... that was the reason for my complaint. The first major
inc ident was when we were hav ing a family reun ion with food and games on the south side of Jason Park .
Everyone was pretty much done eating , except for the people having seconds and of course the kids who eat
slowly . A dog ... that for awh ile we thought he had no owner, because he came running into our picnic area ,
freak ing the kids out, because some of them were sitting on the grass . This dog jumped lip on the table and
tried to eat our food that we had catered in. Everyone was trying to shoo the deg away and yelling at him to get
out of here . My Dad finally lost his patience when the dog came runn ing up to one of my kids that was only one
and a half at the time and is very fearful of dogs . He was about to kick the dog, because this was going on fo r a
few minutes , when we could finally hear a lady calling her dog as she took her time walking across the park to
and pla yground to come get him. My Dad wa s te lling her to hurry up and get her dog before he handled it for
her. To make it worse , she had another dog with her without a leash , that left her as soon as he srotted the
oth er dog and food . When she finally made It over to her dog , she grabbed them and left the park right away .
Earlier that day , my oldest girl , Malea , was barefooted and she walked to the trash to throw her plate away and
stepped in dog poop . She almost threw up because it grossed her out so badly . The second major incident
was when I took my three girls to the park by myself. My oldest was on the swing and the other two were by me
getting off the menry-go-round heading toward the bouncy dinosaurs ... when a dog who was on the north side of
the playground came running and barki ng at my girls . My girls were only about 2 feet ahead of me and they
turned and started to rJn and cry . I picked both of them 1:p and tried to calm them down , hoping the dog
wouldn 't attack us as he was running at us . The owner ,, , was chasing after him ... while all of this was
happening ... was yelling for him to co me back . By the time ,ne dog got just a few feet away , I was mak ing my
dec ision on , do I let this dog bite me , so he doesn 't bite my kids or how hard was I going to have to kick this dog
to protect my kids, and how am I go ing to do it with my kids in my arms . I believe this owner knew that I was
about to do something , because she was saying ... don't wonry , he won 't bite . Th is dog stopped about a foot
away but continued to bark at us. The owner grabbed him and put him on a leash and apol ogi zed and left the
park . After th is inc ident is when I wrote a letter to the Parks Division and the respons e that I got back was , the
only thing I coul d do was call the cops or an imal control. I thought it was a pretty lame excuse , because on that
parti cular day , as most days when I go to the park , I didn 't have my cell phone on me . When you are walk ing
three very young ch ildren to the park . your hands are full enough wit hout a cell phone to ca rry around . Even if I
did havP. my cell phone and a probl em occurred with a dog , the owners usually get th e dog and leav e right awa y
before animal cont rol can get there . I don 't li ke taking my pho ne to the park anfWay , beca use I'm there to pla y
with my i<i ds , not t2 lk on the phone . I understand that th ere is an unleashed dog park committee and I think th at
is great , because a lot of dog owners th ink of the ir dog as the ir own ch il d and they want to do what is best fo r
them . Unfortunately, some owners don 't have complete control of the ir dog , which has led to some very sca ry
inc idents . I am not here to hate on all dog owners , I've see n dogs at the park with the ir owners and th ey do
everyth ing right, but there are too many owners who do not obey all of the ru,cJ and etiquette set by th e
comm ittee . I read on the unleashed dog park committee , just the other day .. that dogs are digging holes and
the owners weren 't cov eri ng them up ... which led to a dog tr ipp ing in one and costing his owner over $4 ,000 .00
to fix his le g. If that was one of my girls , I would have enned up paying her med ica l bills , because they ~-.n·t
know whose dog dug the holes , so they could not take responsibil ity for it. There are too many problems , wh ic h
can lead to very serious problems ... like the attack and medical expenses ... to keep Jason an unleashed dog
park . Why can 't the owners take the ir dog to the actual dog park at Belleview or why can 't the City of
Englewood and the unleashed dog park co mm ittee build another dog park made just for dogs if the one in
Bellevie w is le J crowded . I am Just here to try to take Jason f'ark bac k to a kid friendly park . I grew up down
the street from Jason Park and had the best time playing there . I live in Highlands Ranch now, where they have
a ton of parks , bu t I st ill th ink Jason Park is the best. My kids an j I are al my Mom 's ho use about th ree or four
times a week or sometimes mo re ... where she only lives a block away from Jason Par k. My kids also love
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June 1, 2009
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Jason Park , bul they are not completely relaxed because they know they have to watch out for the dogs and the
dog poop . Now, I have rules for them whe~ I take them by myself. They are no longer allowed to be scattered
over the playground . They now have to stay with each other, wh ich they don 't like , because one always wants
to play on someth ing else . When we go to the park , it should be fun and relaxing ... oot stressful like it has been .
When I go to Jason Park , I shouldn 't have to worry if me or one of my girls are going to be attacked and how am
I go ing to fig ht off the dog . I shouldn 't have to worry about having to rush my kius to the ER , because of a fight
or try to figure out how is a way to get myself to the ER if I was attacked . My girls would be traumatized If these
th ings were to ever happen and they have come close to happening . I know a lot of dog owners think thei r ~og
would never bite someone , but they need to remember that they are bringing their dog aro,,nd a kids'
playground where there is a lot of running and screaming and even sometimes food . Just like how the dog
owners are trying to do what is best for their dog, as a parent I am trying to uo what is best for my kids . I love
dogs , but I think all kids take the priority over any dog . Thank you for your tim e.
Mayor Woodward said thank you .
Mayor Woodward said I am sure there is go ing to be a response from Coc,1cil members later. Typically , we
respond under the Council Members Choice toward the end of the mee ti ng.
7. Recognition of Unscheduled Publlc Comment
(a) Kim Love , a Highlands Ranch resident , said I came th is even ing because t war.tad to thank
Council . You know I am the President of Englewood Unleashed and we are about 300 members strong now
and we wanted to thank you for your support of the Ch ili Cook-off. The t:hili Cook-off was very successful this
year . We almost tripled the actual foot count that cam e through the Chili Cook-off on April 25m . It was by far the
best event we have had in the four years that we have been doing it. In fact , it did very well and it raised our
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Income about 65%. We have a lot more mone y to fund things in the park ... like benches , poop stations , pickups •
and such. We still have brunches every two weeks at the Jason and/or the Canine Corral and we will continue
to fund those kinds of activities . We have a larger volunteer count to pick up the dog poop at both parks . We
(~ank you all for your support . In coml 11g th is evening , I am happy to hear that some of the families came to talk
about the incidents that they have and we are sorry to hear about the Griego family and the Jones family ... about
what happened . We feel badly about that. Englewood Unleashed is very strongly committed to educating the
public and citizens that have dogs , about proper use and etiquette of the park . So it is very important to us that
everybody follows the rules . Like the Englewood Police , we can 't be there 100% of the time ... we are thera a
lot. . a lot of the members are there, but we can't be there 100% of the time , especially in the middle of the day
a• most of us are working . So, we always try to take care of teach ing people a~out what is right and wrong in
the park and what is requ ired and what areas they are supposed to be un the leash and which are the ones they
are allowed to be off leash . So , yeah , we can 't be there all the time , but it is very unfortunate when incidents li~e
th is happen , but as we think of all the thousands of encounters we have had , in the last year we got fewer than
a half dozen complaints ... all of which we have addressed . It doesn 't make theirs any less importa nt , but we
want to address those and try to make sure that works . One of the things we would propose to our Board of
Directors , but also to the City Council , in trying to take care of this situation , is •o put up some add itional signs in
Jason Park , that is like by the playground ... a sign we have already pa id for and put up . We want to do the
same th ing aboul what is allowed in the chi ldren 's area on the playgro und , as well as what is in your play area ,
like the baseball field and the soccer field . So , current ly they do allow dogs on a leash , but I don 't think people
know th is because I went and checked today wllh on e of our otner members, Jean Alspector , and we checked
the sign and there is actually a sign thal says , dogs m.ist be on a leash in the play are as and in the playground
and of course , the soccer field and the baseball field . I don 't th ink a lot of the pe ople coming to the park know
that , so they allow the ir dogs to run free and then you have a leash obviously to make su,a :hat doesn 't happen .
I th ink the whole idea of that is so that you have your dog with the family and you can bring your dog with you to
the playground , but they have to be on a leash . It is completely understandable, considering that a dog runn ing
loose will scare the children . That is unacceptable . We 've always tried to advocate , as a group , that dogs are
not allcwa d anywhere nea r the playground or in the play areas where t-ball , soccer or baseba ll is go ing on . We
try to make it, you know , ma ke sure everyone is aware that it is an off-lim its area to their dogs and please keep •
them in other areas of the park . We have bean really successful but you know ... we can't please everybody all
th e time . We are very committed to work in g with Code Enforcement and animal conlrol to ma ke sure thal thes e
people are foll owing the ru les so we don 't have Inciden ces like th is. We have a lot of p_ople thal co me upon
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Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
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Jason Par k and deci de the y lik e it fo r the ir dogs and th ey have no idea or eve n ca re about the rules and that is
why we formed Eng lewood Un leashed . Eng lewood Un leashed has ded ica ted themselves , over the last six
years , lo educate people on !he proper et iquette of the park. There are always go ing to be people that come
into the oark that have no idea about the rules or even about Englewood Unleashed ... as the majority do now.
We ma ke it our miss ion to lry to make su re these problems are laken care of so . we feel just as important for the
fa milie s that are invo lved as well as for other users of the park . We really have to co-exist, that's importan t.
There ar,;, people with famil ies and the peop le wilh dogs should be able to use the park too . I th ink way ba ck
when the Council allowed off leash priv ileges for dogs , we kept that in mind ... tha t there are a lot of owne rs with
dogs in Englew ood and surrounding communities and that everyone needs the park too . But at the same time,
they do have to ~eep the ir dog under control , so we can completely agree with you on that. I think that is very
important to them . Mayor Woodward said Kim, cou!d you keep it to a minute ? Mr . Love said , as I mentionPd ,
we had a ha lf dc,en complaints all of wh ich we have addressed directly with those people and all reported to
our police . And th•re are some people that abuse the ir privileges of the park and we ask them not to come
an ymore if they don 't follow the rules . There have been seve ral people . I don 't know of any attacks of vicious
dogs ... or if there were dogs on the playground or pavilion that shouldn 't have been there , but aga in, we have to
try to wo rk with those people and as k people not to let the ir dogs loose in that area . So we try to get everybody
but we can 't get everybody at the same time . Mayor Woodward said your time Is up , could you wrap It up? Mr.
Love said sure . In conclus ion . I would like to say we would like to propose some signage , wh ich Englewood
Unleashed would be willing to help pay for. One of the other suggestions we have is crea ti ng a natural barrier
around the playg round , such as bushes or light fenc ing , someth ing tha t you can still see your children from the
rest of the park. That is someth ing Englewood Unleashed has the funds to help with and we would be happy to
do that. So , I think there are some good solutions that we can come up with , as a group . Thank you for your
time .
Mayor Woodward said thank you .
(b) Jean Alspecto ,. a Littleton res ident , sa id I am also with Englewood Unleashed . Kim might have
gone a little over , because he tc,,Jk ~alf of what I was going to say , so I will go a little bit under . Aga in, I wanted
to thank Council for all your support ,,var the past years ... from establ ish ing the off-leash parks , to supporting us
on things like our Chili Cook-off, wh ich ".im already told you about. I would encourage the City t~ post those
signs at the park as well . The on~ si~ri with the rules for the dog owners is posted under the City sign . It was
covered by t~e trash cans today when we went there. A. d is abo ut at the site of where your car lights pul l in, so
it goes from there to the ground . So , I would like to see those up higher and , a" Kim sa id, maybe at each end of
the park or someth ing like tha t. And add itional signs at the playground areas and any place where there are
ch ildren . I can lotally relate to anyone who has children or grandchildren and a ,Jog comes at them , that has to
be the most terrible experienc e .. when you fear for your life as well as your kids ... kids more importantly , you
want to save your kids first. So I would like to see anyth ing done that we can do for that. I encourage all lh e
enforcement that the City can give by whoeve r is in charge of an imal enforcem ent and let's see if we~~ qet
some of it... it is the owners ... under contro l. My last th ing is tha t... regard ins ,:le an up and dog wa ste or u~g
poop ... I would just like to , this sounds terrible , I wou ld just like to shoot the r<:10p l•• that do that . I mean , these
par ks are ... and I mea ,, even at Can ine Corral , the owners just feel like , it's '""' back yard so let's ju st leave the
dropp ings . This is a cunstant thing that Englewood Unl eashed is push ing ... wr want bag dispensers and we talk
to the peop le. I think it is just lik e knock ing on a wall . there is j ust no response fr0m the owners . I'm sorry to sa y
the dogs aren 't the problem a lot of times ... it is the owne rs. I than k you for th is li me to speak and aga in I
apolog ize ... if there is anything lhat we could ever do , please let us know because I would ne ver want an y chil d
or adult terro rized by a dog or dogs in a park. Thank you .
Ma yor Woodward sa id than k yo u.
(c ) Jerry Furman , an Englewr·od resident , sa id thank you and I live at the Marks Apart ments . There
is some land right by the Ma rk s Apartments and I believe it is part uf the City of Englewood and part of the
Marks . There are i,v:s s in that grass area and there is a bus stop right there and I keep tri pp ing over it and a lot
of people are tripp ing over It. Can 't we put rl irt in those holes? If old people trip over those holes they would
break bones ... beca,.se I have been hurt ing myself walk ing through th ere and there are more holes . I am gett ing
tired of tripp ing over those holes .
Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
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Mayor Woodward sa id thank you .
(d ) Rhonda Kalies , a Littleton res ide nt , sa id I am here with Englewood Unleashed and as
Kim said , we are here to thank you for the Chil i Cook-off support tha t you ga ve us . I just wanted to re iterate
that, as my two assoc iat es have said , I just feel awful about what happened to you th erai . But I wo uld like to
remi nd Council that I have been attacked . I have two Great Pyrenees and I have bee n attacked by dog s
walk ing in ne ighborhoods In Littleton . And th is was just something that happens, not only in parks , an d it is
someth ing that we all have to be aware of and teach our children how to deal with this . I am a member of the
Board and be ing a member of the Board of Englewood Unleashed , means that you pick up dog poop . And you
remind people to put their animals on a leash and we accept a lot of comments for do ing tha t. When we have
monthly pic kups at Jason Pa rk and also Can ine Corral , and the people who don 't, who aren 't members of
Englewood Unleasned , don 't really know what we are doing there . I th ink sometimes they look at us as ii we
are members of the City that are there picking up. And they don 't necessarily participate and help us even when
asked . And when we have brunches and we promote Englewoo1 Unleashed , our dues are $15 .00 a year
and we ask people if they are members or if they wou ld like to becc,me members and then explain what we are
do ing there with the brunches and dog cleanups ... and they say , well the City does that...and we say no the City
doesn 't do it. We are a membership organ ization and we help support the Parks and keep it healthy and clean .
They are just so surprised, they can 't believe it. We have rules and unde rstand ings about how we can help
promote ourselves in relations hip with the City of Englewood . And I th ink that it is very confusing for a lot of
owners there . And in addi ti on to the things that Kim has suggested and Jean , perhaps a little bit more signage
of support, that the City of Englewood supports the membersh ip organ ization of Englewood Unleashed and
encourages you to participate or to do whatever you like. Perhaps we need to have more of an open
partnership with the City in signage to help people to learn that it isn't the City , it isn 't someone else 's
responsibility ... it is our responsibility, those of us who have dogs and wish to avail themse lves of the gilts that
Englewood Unleashed has given us . Than k you .
Mayor Woodward said thank you .
(e) Jim Brown , a Denver resident , said good evening and my subject is g;affiti and removal
thereof. I am the owner of a building and a part ial owner and manager of a second build ing in Englewood .
These two bu il dir,cs are end -to-end and run between Tejon and Raritan on the other end . We occupy the south
side of an alley and the north side of the alley is also built up with warehouses from Tejon to Raritan . Between
the two complexes and warehouses is an alley that is unpaved , un lighted and has been that way for ... ever since
we have been there . Since November of last year, we have been tagged and I can 't keep track , it is eithe r 3 or
4 times and then we received a posted notice , which I guess you are all aware of . I guess my statement is that
as a building owner, it is rather onerous in genera l and specifically the three day limit is extremely onerous . On
th is cita tion was sent to me by reg is tered mail back on 5/6 and we !J idn't get the graffiti removed until Tuesday
after Memorial Day ... that is more like three weeks . Now in defense, I would like to read here, it says all property
faced with graffiti which is visible to the public view is hereby declared to be a publ ic nuisance and shall be
deemed unlawful . There is no way to see this graffi ti in this alle y from Raritan or from Tejon ... you just co uldn 't
see it. It was done in the alley and on the back of the building . In my o~inion, it was not a publ ic nu is ance but I
was so cited and since it didn 't get removed in three days , last Tuesday I was cited and will go to court on
Wedneso'ay to answe r to both bu ild ings . And , I guess what I am here to ask is ... if Council would maybe tak e a
look at th is ordinance or law , whichever it happens to be , and try to think of the situation of the owner of the
building who may or may not occupy the bu ild ing . They are in th e business other than graffit i removal. And
perhaps there Is a better way to handle it than this . I have , and I guess you all aware of this , quarte rty we get
the water and sewer and storm sewer bill and several years ago ... and I can 't tell you how many , probably 20 .. I
believe the City instituted the bid we put in, currently it is about $40 .00 a quarter ... 2 buildings so th at is $80 .00 a
quarter ... and th is is to replace concrete when it breaks on the curb and gutter. So far, we haven 't had , that I
can tell , any curb and gutter breakage and consequently it has not been used . I assume that if that ever occurs
and I don 't know why it would , the City Is go ing to come out and replace it with these funds . And I said to
myse lf, why couldn 't they do somewhat of a similar situation for graffiti removal? And there is some precedent
for that because th is goes on to say that the City , at it's option , can abate the nu isance at your expense . It
basically says that the City will com e out and remove the graffiti and bill us . As far as I am concerned , that
would be wond .rful if they would do that. I would pay that bill right now , because I am go ing to pay a bill to who
loc i< ,t off last Wednesday and I assume the City 's bill would be fair and equ itable , wh ich means that they
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Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Page 7
already have some prov isio ns for taking graffiti off of bu ildings . Denver does do this . They go out and if you call
them about graffiti, they come out and take it off yo ur building . Englewood isn 't Denver but, square foot of wall
to square foot of taggers , I would imag ine , is about the same . I would like you to cons ider building someth ing of
that nature or do something else perhaps , but I fee l it is onerous on building owners in Englewood to have just
three days . I am a victim and three days later, I am a law breaker. Thank you for lis ten ing .
Mayor Wood wa rd said thank you .
(f) Rick Gilli!, an Englewoo d res ident , sa id good evenini Counci l. I have a couple of things
that I would lik e to talk about tonight. I will be brief with both . Back on May 4 , during City Council there were
some ordinances or resolutions that were approved for money . I'm always up for improv ing the City . The
question I had is a couple of the items ... I was hop ing that th is Council would at least question some of these .
Director Fonda presented an issue regarding sewer taps and he presented a 50% increas~ in that fee . Now one
question about... would 10% work ? Do we really need 50%, could we do it a little cheaper? I was a little taken
aback that there was no question ing . You know , it just seems like he asked Santa for a gift and Santa gave it.
The second thing was , I believe , the emergency ambulance ... l am all for the police having good equipment and
for the Fire Department and medical and I am sure that we will need something . But as I was sitting here as a
citizen , I wanted somebody up there to say ... could we wait a year, could we wait two years? They said that the
equipment was running , but it was at a certa in age . I would hope that as a citizen I could trust my Council man
to at least, you know ... if they are going to spend money , ask . Can we go ... can we wait a year, can we wait two
years? Right now we are kind of tight on the budget. Is it broken down? Do we need to replace it now? Why
were there no questions of that. Once aga in, maybe that was the right thing to do , but for a citizen , it just kind of
hurt, because I have had to cut my budget back . As a business owner, I am having to cut back th ings in my
own bus iness and I see other people in our City hav ing to do that. It just seems that anybody that goes to you
guys and asks for money , it just seems like it is given. I went back through the minutes to see if I could find any
minutes where you said no to somebody asking for money and I could not find it. Maybe there is, but I could not
find it. I would just ask that would be somewhat conservative or at least ask , you know, can we do a little bit
less , because I was at that budget meeting where we talked about making budget cuts . So , I would just ask you
to do that. The second item and it is perfect timing, is I live at Belleview Park . And I happen to be the proud
owner c. • •he home where everybody with a dog has to wal k by to go to the park . And I can tell you that there is
a serious issue wi th dogs off th e leash . I have had to chase dogs off my own property , the dogs coming by try
to attack my dogs , try to j ump the fence to get my aogs. And the owners are just doing their own th ing . I see
people ... as soon as they get out of the ir car and there are on Whitaker, their dogs are off and I've seen children
terrified , I've had to deal with It on my own . Jo have a great dog park there that I have taken some of my dogs
to . Can we at least say , if you are go ing th r'-v.)1 that park keep a leash on there or if your dog is the type of
dogs that is goin g to nun away from you , ma;,. vou should keep tne m leashed , because there is a serious
issue . Especially now that it is summer tim , ""~ryday there is an issu e. It starts at my house at about six
o'clock in the morning Nhen the dogs walk ing by my house even baril at my dogs . So , it is just an issue . If we
thi nk it is not an issue .... let the people from Englewood Unleashed hear. Just an in teresting comment to me , I
did n't hear any of them that lived in Englewood , but maybe there are some of the members who actually live in
Englewood that nun the ~lace . But, when we would consider those is sues ... I would hate to see the City in a
lawsuit because we tried to be overl y friendly to the dogs . I have dogs . I love my dogs , they are my ki ds . But
there is a care I have for other people and I like my dogs a lot more than I like yours . So , I am sure that other
people who walk through the park th ink the unleashed were be ing brave enough to come up and talk to you but
I also than k Englewood Unleashed for com ing and talk ing to them . But there is an issue and I hope you can
help us . Thank you .
Mayo r Woodward sa id than k yo u.
(g) Malea Jones said when we were at a par k one time , th is dog came up to my grandma
and my sister and it started growling at my Grammy and then it started chasing my sister and then it was
growling at her after it was chas ing her . And one day when I was throwin g my plate away , I stepped In dog
poop and it grossed me out and was gagg ing . Then one day there was a wh ite dog , when I was climbing on the
slide , and it ran by the slide where I was at and then the dog ra n in the field where its owner was . And then
there was another dog that was there and he cl imbed on the playground like his owner told him , but I was on the
playgro und too , righ t ne xt to the dog and the dog walked right by me when my sis te rs were by me ... one is 2 and
Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Page B
one is 3 and I am 5 ... and the dog walked right by us on the playground . And then I got off the playground and
then after that another dog came by an ,J it was growling and then he was looking at me funny and then he
chased me and I went on the merry-go-ro und and he was runn ing around the merry-go-round . And then my
sisters were on the merry-go-round and then the dog ran back by the slide and he kept runn ing and then he
stopped right at the slide at the very end of sliding and then I was slidin g down the slide that he ju st stopped at
and he wouldn 't move when I sl ided down at the very end ... he was still there . Thank you .
Mayor Woodward sa id thank you Malea . I appreciate and we all appreciate it and thank you for coming forward .
That is a very brave thing for a young person like yo u, so thank you very much for coming to see us ton ight and
tell ing us your story . Thank you . Several Council Members also sa id thank you .
(h) Sophia Jones sa id a dog started chasing me and growled at my grandma . I was at the
sl ide and me and my sister slided down and the dog wouldn 't go away . Thank you .
Mayor Woodward said thank you for coming tonight. Several Council Members also said thank you.
(i) Matthew Crabtree , an Englewood res ident, said you know , I normally don 't like to get
into debates and on the record here , with Council , on comments that were made at prev io us meetings and ... l
see Bob rolling his eyes there, but that's alright. The comments at the last Council meeting though, from a
specific Council member , were concerning enough that I felt that it was just to resp ond to ii today .
Representative government...it is actually humorous that the question that I raised a few Council's ago about
representative government in the City of Englewood and , if there is, what happened to that representative
government. .. was, I th ink , misinterprel&-<l . This particular Council member went to great depth explaining how
there was a representative government In the City of Englewood and that you were all elected , seven duly
elected members of this community to serve . Now he also stated that the only reason why I asked that question
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was because a piece of paper with 40 signatures on it was ignored . Here is the correcti on . First of all if you •
have read that. .. there were 40 signatures on a piece of paper asking for change . I took that as ignoring . First
of all , that is not the only reason why I asked that question . Over the last two years attend in g nearly every
single Council meeting , time and time again the City Council has been interested in a lot of their own issues and
not listening to the people of this community . As a correction over this petition and that is what I'm go ing to talk
about , th is particular Council member named that as a plert! of paper but to me it is far more important... it is a
petition . The way the people of th is community can enar .ange and request change of their elected offi cials .
It is not just a piece of paper. There were 57 signatures t,, there . Now if you th ink back to when each of you
started your process to become elected , there was a piece of paper that you had to circulate . That piece of
paper was a petition that had 50 signatures on that. That was enough to get you on the ballot. Yet when it
comes down to an issue that was important to a large group of people in the City ... 57 people is a large
group ... that is Ignored . So , another thing I would like to respond to real fast is another comment made where it
was stated that I have attended every meeting and that It was a surprise when I didn 't know the processes took
a lot longer than they do . You know , th is part icular situation , I will bring up really fast. Th is has to do with
National Night Ou t... investigating why the National Night Out Program has diminished in popularity so much
over the last few years after Nancy Peterson left. And it has to do with plaques . A lot of people wanted to see
them up in this community and in the CityCenter here . The person that originally brought th is issue to
you ... brought in the problem and the solution . Council didn't have to take time to go into Study Session to
discuss this ... didn 't have to make their own decision on it. It was already decided by 57 people that signed a
petition ... a very important document. So , the fact that nothing was ~o ne ... it is concerning . Bu t. in summary
here , representative government is something that ea, 1 and every member of th is community deserves and ,
unfortunately ... l'm kbd of at a loss for words here right now , but unfortunately , over the last two years I haven 't
seen a whole lot of representat ion . I ask Council, at what point does the citizen , between the cit izen becom ing a
Counci l member, at what point does that Council member think they are more important than the people that
helped elect them ? And I see this ti me and time again . I've talked to other people in different cities and tha t
level of rep re sentation Is los t. So , I thank you for your time . Thank you .
Mayor Woodward said thank you . •
U) Marty Mossma n, an Englewood resident , said I don 't attend every Council meeting , but
every one that I have evar been to, we keep staying on the subject of National Night Out , plaques and th in gs of
Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Page 9
thal sort . And I believe in freedom of speech and people speaki ng up also , but I have a little problem with being
told that 57 , 107 or whatever number , represents me and about 35 ,000 other people . I just don 't find that to be
credible . And yes , those people did take the time to sign a petition and ha ve meetings and go over all these
issues that are concerning to you . And if it is a concern ... I would agree we all have concerns . But you want to
ask why National Night Out , Neighborhood Watch and anything isn't like it used to be , because everything is
different than it used to be . I have been a member of Ne ighborhood Watch for so many years , I hate to tell you .
And I was there when those awards were given and ii was a great moment ... those were moments . The
operative word is were and was . II is time to move on . I have here the announcemen t for the next
Ne ighborhood Watch meeting . I would think that would be a good place for poo p!e to go and neighbors could
go , people to go to gel other people to go . That is the only way that is going to be different. And it isn't just
Council 's situation to represent the citizens . We all need to step up too . You kn~w it has always been my
belief that dec isio ns and everything that are made and abided by, go by the prem is~ '.hat it is the best thing for
the greater number of people . I don 't always see that when people are wanting their own way only and yes th c!r
feelings are legitimate , but so are other fee li ngs . I quite frankly don't know whether to feel sorry for people who
are stuck in the past or a', . .,is point , just feel disgusted . So , there are so many things in our commun ity to be
done and they can be done .. ;stead of dwelling on what was . I worked very closely with Nancy Peterson and all
these people are saying , it is not about the person , it is about the deal . Well it has become about the pers~n
and the deal . I don't know if Nancy knows what's going on , but I feel kind of bad that something she did and
with good work and in good faith, is being used as not so good anymore . It is just kind of disgusting after
awhile . I would like to invite anyone here and anyone you know who wants to come . I brought some notic:es for
Ne ighborhood Watch ar,d I would like everyone to know that everybody is welcome . You can't judge someth ing
if you don 't know about It. And to constantly criticize people who are really out there trying to do things , I don 't
think that is quite fair either. Would it be right to have more petitions going around? I don 't know about
everybody , but boy , I don 't have time to do petitions . There are dog issues to worry about. There are kids to be
read to . There are elderly and disabled people to be tended to . There is trash to be picked up . There is so
much to do in our community . And frankly , not a lot of people show up for things but times are tough . If they
know about things and they feel welcome , I think they will eventually and I think they really should . That is all I
have to say and thank you very much . And I would invite everyone you know to come to Ne ighborhood Walch .
In fact, I will pass these around or put them right here on the table . I am not just picking on you . I really kind of
have a problem knov,ing what these issues are . I am lislening , but I'm not getting ii, okay? So anyway, thank
you .
Mayor Woodward sa id lhank you very much , Marty.
8. Communications, Proclamations and Appointments
There were no communications , proclamations or appointments .
9. Consent Agenda
COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER WILSON SECONDED, TO APPROVE
CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS 9 (a) (I), and 9 (bl (I).
(a ) Approval of Ordinances on Firs t Read ing
(i) COUNCIL BILL NO . 27 INTRODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE
A BILL FOR AN OROINANCE AUTHORIZIN G THE ACCEPTANCE OF A VICTIM ASSISTANCE LAW
ENFORCEMENT (VALE) GRANT FROM THE VICTIM Af5ISTANCE LAW ENFORCEMENT BOARD OF THE
18 TH JUOICIAL DISTRICT .
(b) Approval of Ordinances cs Second Read ing
(i) ORD INAN CE NO . 21 , SERIES OF 2009 (CO UNCIL BILL NO . 22 , INTRODUCED BY
COUN CIL MEMBER WILSON )
Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Page 10
AN ORDINANCE APPROVING AND AUTHORIZING THE EXECUTION OF THREE INTERGOVERNMENTAL
SUBGRANTEE AGREEMENTS (C OBG ) FOR THE YEAR 2009 BE1WEEN THE ARAPAHOE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ANO THE CITY OF ENGLEWOOD , COLORADO .
Vote results :
Motion carried .
Ayes : Council Members Penn , Mc Casl ,n , Moore , Woodward , Jefferson ,
Wilson , Oakley
Nays : None
(c) Resolutions and Mot io ns
There were no additional resolut ion s or mot ions subm itted for approval on second re ad ing . (See Agenda Item
11 ,)
10. Public Hearing Items
No publ ic hearing was scheduled before Council .
11 . Ordinances, Resolution and Motions
(a) Approval of Ordinances on First Reading
(i) Housing Finance Specialist Grimmett presented a recommendation from the
Community Development Department to adopt a bill for an ordinance authorizing an Intergovernmental
Agreement between the City of Englewood and Arapahoe County for Community Oevelopmenl Block Grant and
HOME Investment Partnership programs for 2010 through 2012 . She sa id I am here this evening to a k Council
to consider approval of three intergovernment <I agreements with Arapahoe County for participation in tne
Community Development Block Grant ar.~ ., .. , HOME Investment Partnership programs for grant fund ing years
of 2010 through 2012. Arapahoe County was designated as an Urban County w~ antilles them to rece ive
funding from HUD for those two programs ... spec ifically the CDBG Program and the HOME Program . These
programs fund our low and moderate income housing programs , the, do infrastructure in the City , public
fac ilities and other serv ices and are used to e;adicala community bli ght in an y areas des ignated . The County is
in the process of re-qu al ifyi ng again as an Urban County for the years 2010 through 2012 and each commun ity
within the Coun ty's jurisdiction must agree to participate in their program . The new IGA must be authorized
specifically for those funding years . Sin ce 1992 , when the County became an Urban County, the City has
rece ive d almost 3 milli on dollars in fund ing from the CDBG and HOME programs . They ha ve be en very
valu able in supporting the programs of our Community Development Department. The authorization of this IG A
will cont inue for the City to receive its share for future years , aga in ... 20 10 through 2012 . So staff recomm ends
that Council please adopt and auth orize the partici pat ion of th is IGA for the next three year program . She asked
if there were any quest ions .
COUNCIL MEMBER JEFFERSON MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER PENN SECONDED , TO APPROVE
AGENDA ITEM 11 (a) (1)-COUNCIL BILL NO . 23 .
CO UNCIL BILL NO . 23 , INTRODUCED BY COUNC IL MFMBER JEFFERSON
A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE APPROVING ANO AUTHORIZING A THREE YEAR INTERGOVERNMENTAL
COOPERATION AGREEMENT BE1WEEN ARAPAHOE COUNTY, COLORADO AND THE CITY OF
ENGLEWOOD , COLORADO RELATING TO THE CONDUCT OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK
GRANT (COBG) AND HOME INVESTMEN ·, PARTNERSHIP (HOME) PROGRAMS FOR PROGRAM GRANT
YEARS 2010 THROUGH 2012 .
Ma yo r Woodward asked if there was any discuss ion .
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Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Page 11
Mayor Woodw~rd said I j ust want to mention that thi s is a Co mmuni ty Development Block Grant and the HOME
funds are really im portant. The Federal Funds that come to us , they come lo us without a match from t~e City .
This is money we pay through our income tax . We are pa ying for ii, so ii is not fre e money . We ha ve uti li zed ii
well in the past...since 1992 almost 3 million dollars has gone into our community . I think that is very positive as
far as hous ing sto ck and Improvements to the commun ity .
Mayor Woodward as ked if there were any other comm ents .
Council Member Wilso n said I would j ust like to sa y that I know Janel works very ha rd on these projects .. so ,
thank you . Ms . Grimmett sa id thank you .
Vote results :
Mot io n carried .
Ayes : Council Members Penn , Mccaslin , Moore , Woodward , Jefferson ,
Wilson , Oakley
Nays : None
(ii) Planner Vobori l presented a recommendation from the Commun ity Development
Department and the Englewood Planning and Zon ing Comm iss ion to adopt a bill for an ordinance amending
Tille 16 : Unified De velopment Code perta ining lo Med ical Zone and Overlay District. And staff further requests
that Council set a Pub lic Hearing for July 6, 2009 to gather publ ic input on th is issue . He said the Med ical Zone
and Overla y District amendments to Tille 16 , are a key implementation strategy for the Englewood Downtown
and Medical Districts Small Area Plan , wh ich was adopted by Council in the spring of 2007 . The purpose of the
Medical Zone and Overlay District amendments is to promote eco nom ic and community development within the
hospital area . The Med ical Zone and Overlay District amendments were created and designed to foster hospital
expans io n. to attract new supporting med ical uses , ta attract new pedestrian oriented neighborhood and hospital
serv ing retail uses Jnd lo allow for support ing uses , such as hotels and for high density residential uses as wel l.
The key attributes of the Med ical Zone and Overlay District amendments inc lu de the follow ing : greater setback
flexibility , greater height allowances for select portions of the Med ical District , while at the same time protect ing
the residential areas to the north and the east and the south . Also , the el imination of discrim inatory regulations
against small projects on small lots , increases in allowable residential densities , urban commercial style
lands caping standards , add ition of hotels added to the list of al lowable uses , expanding retail uses to areas to
th e south of the original historical bus iness di strict. .. stretching down to US 285 ... wh ile at the same time
controlling the size and layout fo r the pedestrian oriented deve lopment standards and finally , the preven io n of
new automob ile uses from localing wi th in the area . The Medical Zone Districts and the Overlay Districts include
two new zoning distri cts and two new overlay distr icts . The zoning districts are known as the M-1 and the M-2
Zoni ng Districts and the difference between the two districts is that the M-2 District will allow for the small scale
retail use s, while the M-1 District ooes not. And what th is does is it allows the City lo confine the retail uses to
appropria te locations along the corridor, as well as south of the corridor, between Logan and Emerson Street,
stretch ing to 285 , while pre ve nt ing the encroachment of reta il uses to the north towards Girard Avenue . And
then we have two Ove rl ay Districts . The first one is called MO -1 and that includes the hospital properties that
are just north of Girard Avenue , betwee n Pearl Stree t and the all ey between Cla rkson and Emerson Streets.
Th is overlay district does not change the und erlyi ng zo ning in terms of dens ity , he ight or land use , bu t what ii
do es is tha t it allows the hosp itals to deve lop with greater flexibility with the ir setbacks , similar to the M-1 ano M-
2 Zo ne Districts . An d in the se con d overlay distric t is the MO -2 Dist ric t and that dis tri ct covers the first
res ident ial lot just sou th of the ex ist ing hist orical , old Ha mpden corridor, between Emerson Street and th e
Ma ri an /L afayette al leyway . And what that does is it creates a lrans ilio nary zone betwe en the res idential portio n
of the ne ighbor to th e south and the exi sting old Hampden corr ido r. II allo ws for some help and ass istance for
development for properties alon g the old Hampden corridor, where ii provides an expansion area for parking , as
we ll as expansion area for the bu ild ing footpr int for res identi al or office uses . Bu t, it reduces th e intensity that
can occ ur in that area , br ing ing down th e he ight to 32 feel , which it th e exa ct same he ight restriction that the R-
2B District tha t the south has . So , it crea te s a nice tran sition zone through the ne ighborho od and the bus iness
corridor . And , in con clusion , I would just like to say that the adoptio n of the Med ical Zone and Overlay District
amen dm en ts will he lp to support City Cou nc il's goa l of fostering ec onom ic development wit hin the City .
Mayor Woodward asked if there were any qu estion s for Joh n.
Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Page 12
Council Member Mccaslin sa id nol a queslion, I just want lo comment. How many meelings did you have
allogelher with clllzens and galhering inpul? Mr. Voboril said we slarted our process in lhe fall of 2006 and I
believe at !hat time we had a series of three different stakeholders meetings . And we had quite a number of
meetings each lime , at different times and locations , to get as many people to those meetings as possible . And
!hen after some more of the plan was developed ... then over the next year and a half, we worked very closely
with !he Planning Commission and ran about a half dozen meetings with the Planning Commission to go over
these In very great detail , And then once we were satisfied witi1 that process ... we decided to bring these back
to lh e llakeholders again and we sent out mailings to 5,000 people in the district...and the surrounding area as
well . And so we had another sel of stakeholders meetings and it was very well received at those . And we also
had meetings wit h the hospitals , as well and they were very pleased with it as well .
Council Member Mccaslin sa id you know , I attended a few of the meetings and they were well attended . I
appreciate It. The people who say that they don't have an input in government, this was a great opportunity ,
You ~now , I saw the people showing up and there was no way that people could say, I didn't know about
It .. , th ~y had the ir head In the sand or something, because It was well attended and I think the people have got
to be proud of it, you know, of the Input they had in this . I want to tha 1'.k you for all the meetings which you guys
held , I appreciate it. Thank you . Mr . Voboril said thank you .
COUNCIL MEMBER McCASLIN MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER WILSON SECONDED, TO APPROVE
AGENDA ITEM 11 (a) (II)· COUNCIL BILL NO . 25 AND TO SET A PUBLIC HEARING DATE OF
JULY 6, 2009.
COUNCIL BILL NO . 25 , INTRODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER McCASLIN
A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 16, OF THE ENGLEWOOD MUNICIPAL CODE 2000
PERTAINING TO THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE 2008 CREATING A NEW MEDICAL ZONE .
Mayor Woodward asked If there was any discussion or comments .
Council Member Penn said I think this is another way for people to come in ... with the Public Hearing and they
have a chance to voice their opinion . John , I think you guys have done a great job of getting out to the citizens ,
letting the stakeholders know what we are doing and what we are trying to do over there . I've talked to many
businesses along that corridor and they are ail rc,1ily excited about this . Thank you for your effort. Mr . Voboril
said thank you .
Mayor Woodward said and I would also like to second what Bob and Randy have said . I remember this going
back to the June 201' Study Session of 2006 ... and the presentations and the work that you did on it and then the
meetings . The meetings , as Bob said , were really well attended and there were lots of questions , there were
recommendations and I think those were very well considered and put into and taken into consideration .
Stakeholders , all stakeholders including the hospitals , the citizens , the bus inesses , really had input in th is and I
want to thank you for all the re ally hard work, of Planning and Zoning and staff of Community Development and
especially you , John . I know that you have put a lot of work into this and it really shows in the documentat ion
and stuff and lhe Study Sessions that we have had . I also want to menlion that at the Planning and Zoning
Hearing , there was one person thr t showed up to recommend passage of this Plan , .. which it did pass
unanimously ... and that person did mention and dis cussed how they really ... enjoyed .. , that isn't the right word ,
but they were really proud of the process that it look and hopefully we will see more of these coming ,
Mayor Woodward asked if there were any oll1er comments . There were none .
Voto res .vita :
Ayes :
Nays :
Motion carried .
r.ouncil Me ,n bers Penn , McCas i: ., Moore , Woodward , Jefferson,
Wilson , Oakley
None
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Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Page 13
(111 ) Planner Voboril presented a recommendation from the Community Deve lopment
Department to ad opt a bill fo r an ordinance approv ing an amendment to the City of Englewood 's Offi cia l Zon in g
Map to rezone po rtio ns of the Med ical District area . He sa id I am here ton ight to seek Counc il support f~r an
adop ti on of a bill for an ordinance to amend the Offi c:dl Zon ing map to reset portions for the Med ical District to
M-1 and M-2: Mixed use Med ical Dis ri c nd to establish areas in which MO-1 and MO -2 Med ical Ove rl ay
Districts regulations apply . I would also like to recommend that City Council set a Public Hea ri ng date of Ju ly 6,
2009 in order to gather pub lic test imony on this bill. The amendment to officially rezone the med ical port ion of
the Med ical District is a key implemeni~tion strategy in support of the Engle,,Jod Downtown Med ical Distri ct
Small Area Plan , which was approved by .::ouncil in the sp ri ng of 2007 , The purpose of the amendment to
rezone portions of the medical district , to ch~nge the official zon ing map , is to est~blish boundaries for the new
Med ical Zone and Overlay District regulations , The key attributes of the new zone districts and the overlay
districts include the following key points : (1) The new zone districts separate areas slated for change from the
predom inately single-family areas where stakeholders do not want to see significant change , (2 ) The new zone
districts expand the areas in which retail uses are allowed , beyond the old Hampden corridor to include some
key future propert ies that are along the highway between Logan and Emerson Street. (3) The new overlay
dist ricts estab li sh trans itional areas between the new Med ica l Zone districts and the predom inately res iden ti al
ne ighborhoods . The M-1 Zone District includes the main hospital campus areas ... ii stretches from Logan to
Lafayette Street and generally northward from the ex isting old Hampdt•n business corridor to Girard Avenue . II
also Includes a portion south of the highway , between Pennsylvania an,' Clar~~on and the reason why this area
was also included is because this area was not deemed to be suitable for retail bus inesses , because of the poor
access . The M-2 Zone District includes the historical old Hampden bus iness corridor, as well as areas south of
that corridor between Logan and Emerson Street... stretching to the highway . II a!so includes the portion of the
are~ south of the highway , between Logan and Pennsylvan ia Street , as well as the southwest corner of
Clarkson and 285 . And those areas would allow small retail uses . The MO -1 Overlay District... that area covers
th, area just north of the hospitals , north of Girard Avenue .. , the hospital owned properties between Pearl and
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the Clarkson/Emerson Street alley , The MO-2 Overlay District, once aga in, that covers the first residential lot
immediately adjacent to the o!d Hampden business corridor, between Emerson Street and the Marion/Lafayette
alleyway , In conclus ion , I would just like to say that the adoption of the amendment to the Official Zon ing Map to
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rezone port ions of the Med ic.ii District will he lp support Council 's goal of fostering econom ic development in the
City .
Mayor Woodward sa id thank you John .
COUNCIL MEMBER McCASLIN MOVED , AND COUNCIL MEMBER PENN SECONDED, TO APPROVE
AGENDA ITEM 11 (1) (Ill). COUNCIL BILL NO . 26 AND TO SET A PUBLIC HEARING DATE OF JULY&,
2009 .
COU NCIL BILL NO , 26 INTRODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER McCASLIN
A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE "OFFICIAL ZONE DISTRICT MAP " OF THE CITY OF
ENGLEWOOD , COLORAD O,
Mayor Woodwa rd asked 1i u 1re we re any comments or dis cu ssion .
Counc il Member Wilson said I am ve ry impressed because I th ink yo u have memoriz ed thi s, Very good ,
Mayor Woodwa rd sa id I would just like to sa y, thank you John , again . Yo u have done a great job on th is.
Mayor Woodwa rd sa id If there Is no further discussion , please vote .
Vote reaulte :
Ayes :
Nays :
Motion carried .
Council Members Penn , Mccasl in, Moo re , Woodward , Jefferson ,
Wilson , Oakley
None
Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Page 14
(iv) Operarr,ns Superintendent McCorm ick presented a recommendation from the Utilities
Department and 1/1 ·ate r and Sewer Board to adopt a bill for an ordinance approving a License Agreement and
Grant of Temporar, Coastruction Easement for a tum -out gate in Englewood 's City Ditch easement at 2890 S.
Clarkson Street. This Is ~n on-go ing property that has probably been going on for four or five years because
there has been a treme.nc.· ,,, • mJu nt of remodeling of the property , relocating the City ditch , building retaining
walls along the City di:~:i ;·1·,, nave one more project and that Is to Irrigate these two acres of property that
lhey have . Trying to get from Uenver a year to year water agreement. They have an old senior water rights
agreement from Denver Wale,· that they cannot get switched to the new property , but they can get a year-to-
year agreement for water usage al this property from Denver Water. Th is new turnout gate structure will be
used to flow the year-to-year wa ter rights . Denver has the water . We have several other users along that ditch
that had this water. They pay us lor taking care of the ditch . They also pay Denver for the water that they give
them on a year-to-year basis . So, we are recommendhi:1 :" Council that you approve this license agreement
and temporary construction easement.
Mayor Woodward asked if there were any queslio •,,. fc,· Al,i. 1 here were none .
COUNCIL MEMBER OAKLEY MOVED, AND COUfl!CIL MEMBER W!LSON SECONDED, TO APPROVE
AGEN!>A ITEM 11 (1) (Iv) • COUNCIL BILL NO. 28.
COUNCIL ~I L~ ;,o. 28 , INTRODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER OAKLEY
A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE APPROVING A LICENSE -CITY DITCH CROSSING AGREEMENT, /IND A
TEMPORARY CONSTRUCTION EASEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF ENGLEWOOD , COLORADO , AND
THE PROPERTY OWNERS BRAY AND ROTBERG .
l,'.ayor Woodward asked if there was any discussion . There was none .
Vote results:
Motion carried .
Ayes : Council Members Penn , Mccaslin , Moore , Woodward, Jefferson ,
Wilson , Oakley
Nays : None
(b) Approval of Ordinances on Second Reading
There were no additiona l Items submitted for approval on second reading . (See Agenda Item 9 -Consent
Agenda .)
(c) Resolutions and Motions
(i) Mayor Woodward said this Agenda item is a recommendation from the Departmenl of
Finance and Administrative Services to adopt a msolulion approving a supplemenlal appropriation for the
abatement of the property at 3750 South Cherokee Street. It Is my understandlng ... and correct me if I am
wrong ... that this item will be pulled from the Agenda . Maybe Lance Smith would like to address this .
Chief Build ing Official Smith said regarding the property at 3750 Soulh Cherokee , as you are aware , there was a
gas explosion and fire destroyed the property on April 14". We have since been working with Wells Fargo to
abate the property and get it demo'd. The Division of Well,, Fargo that , ,andles this Is called Property Asset
Serv ices . They contact!td me last Thursday, April 28~ ... they had rec ived the go -ahead to demo the property .
They anticipate that it will move real fast from this point forward b~sed on the ir experience ... although I do not
have a specific date or a timeline . They said typically It moves real quick but they could not give me a ti meline .
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So , we are .~,questing that the City kind of hold off on any action , securin ~ bids to demo the property , and let the •
process move forward with the actual owner of the property . If there are 3n y questions , I will try to answer lhem .
Mayor Woodward said my only question is ... has this been commun icalud to the nr.,ghbors that had shown the
concem? I believe it has . Mr . Sm ilh said not by the City . I did talk with the in su ,ance company that went out
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Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Page 15
and apparently they had talked <, the Ldjacent propertl' owners as to what their purpose was ... that they were
working toward gelling the sitcat lon resol ,cd and getting the property demo 'd. Mayor Woodward said okay .
Mayor Woodward sa id did we do somett,,ng ea~ie r with them? City Manager Sears sa id we sent a letter out to
them , as the Council had said .. :,,,;·, proceed . And at that po int ,n time , Chief Pattarozz i had sent the letter of
explanation that we were go ing 10 ;:•c,;e,,d to tear that. .. take the house ... demol ish that property , They
responded that they were very pleas ,:d that they had gotten a letter from the City . As Chief Building Official
Sm ith sa id, we will continue to ma intain discussions with them as we proce ed i.1 the penmitting of the demoliti on ,
Mayor Woodward sa id okay ,
Council Member Jefferson sa id I Just want to make sure that we monitor the situation relat ively closely, as they
have been sort of absentee in this situation and I would hate for this threat to rP.main in the community if they
don 't take care of it right away , I guess I am okay tabllng .. ,I just want to make sure we mon itor the situation
going forward as I found some of these banks can be pretty absentee v.hen they are left on their own .
Mayor Woodward sa id okay ... thank you Lance .
(ii) Deputy City Manager F :aherty presented a recommendation from the City Manage r's
Office to approve , by motion , an agreement with · he City 's Ener~y Services Company, Ameresco , Inc., for
perfonmance of a Technical Energy Audit. He said Council has heard of this effort in previous Study Sessions ,
In October of last year we contracted usder a memorandum of understanding , with the State of Colorado
Governor's Energy Office . The Governo1's Offic0 completed a Feasibility Sludy for energy perfonmance
contractin g and In early 2009 , the City issued the Request for Proposal's ... we received three proposals , we
selected ... cased on a review of tho ~e proposals ... Amnresco . Council confinmed that in May with a resolution in
support for that selection. This document you have for consideration tonight, is the standard State agreement
for a tech1 ,·;al energy audit and project proposal. It has been approved by the State of Colorado , by Ameresco
and by our City Attorney . The total cost of the techn ica l energy audit Is $34 ,532 .00 . The City has appl ied to
Exco l Energy for a rebate of 50% of this amount. We are hoping to receive funding from Excel Energy . We also
wil! apply for the Governor 's Energy Office , as soon as we have the application infonmation from the GEO •or the
rema ining 50 % of that. In the event we do not get funding either by the State or by Excel .. , the cost of the audit
can be rolled into the ed iti ng Perfornnance Contract that we would be entering into with Ameresco at the
conclus ion of the Energy Audit and the recommendati ons made by Ameresco .
Mayo r Woodward ask6d if there any questions .
Mayor Woodward said I just have a question regard ing the e-mail I sent you last weak on the unsol ic ited
proposal for a main street rega rd ing solar and , I believe , they are somewhat different from this ... although you
were go in g to forward it on to Ameresco ... and that is that they sell the energy or we could contract for energy at
a lower rate . The Englewood Housing Authority Is currently doing that. Was that sent on? Mr. Flaherty sa id I
forwarded it to Ameresco and I am hav ing a conversation with the project manager tomorrow . Ameresco Is also
looking at other , potential , third party providers that might be interested in doing a similar th ing , That 's been
done ... not on a grand scale .. ,but I know that the City of Arvada did a project at their Waste Water Treatment
Plant for an electric PV Solar System that was pa id for by a th ird party and that third party realized most of the
benefit~ from that. But the City wi<i re ceive benefit by hav ing the ir power 9enerateo for their Waste Wate r
Treatment Plant. I'm not familiar , at this point , with tho Main street Prop ns al .. , but that is one of the things we will
be discussing . Mayor Woodward sa id okay ... as long as we have It on the list , because the Housing Authority is
moving forward with it ... on the two high-rises ... Simon Center and Orcha rd Place ,
Mayor Woodward asked If there were any other cnmments. There were none ,
COUNCIL MEMBER WILSON MOVED , AND COUNCIL MEMBER JEFFERSON Sl::CONDED , TO APPROVE
AGENDA ITEM 11 (c) (II) -AN AGREEMENT WITH THE CITY 'S ENERGY SE~VICES COMPANY,
• AMERESCO, INC ., FOR PEkFCRMANCE OF A TECHNICAL ENERGY AUDIT .
Mayor Woodward as ke d if there was any discussion .
Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Page 16
Council Member Jefferson sa id I am glad to see th is audit moving forward . I am interes ted to see exactly how
much ene rgy we can be saving .
Counc il Member Wilson said I appreciate all the hard work . I know this has been a 1,!g project and there were a
lot of pieces that had to be put together. So , I am looking forward to it and thank ycu .
Deputy City Manager Flaherty said I will mention that there will be a separate energy aud it com ing forwa rd from
the Waste Water Treatment Plant. However, that was not prepared at this time and it needs tv be approved by
the Supervisory Committee of the Waste Water Treatment Plant and it is scheduled for their review th is Friday .
Mayor Woodward asked if there were any other comments . The re were none .
Vote results:
Motion carried .
Ayes : Council Mem uers Penn , Mccaslin , Moore, Woodward , Jefferson ,
Wilson , Oakley
Nays : None
Mayor Woodward sa id let's take a five minute break .
Ths meeting recessed at 9:07 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 9:13 p.m., with all Council members present.
12. General Dilcus■lon
(a) Mayo(s Choice
(i) Mayor Woodward sa id on June 18~, at 6:30 p.m ., out in the amph itheater right here at
City Center, starts the Sounds of Summer. At 6:30 p.m. The first band will be the Dean Bushnell Orchestra .
June 25~ will be the Mile High Banjo Society . So I wanted to mention tha t. Those are free and right here at City
Cente r, so bring your lawn chairs and picnics .
(ii) Mayor Woodward said I would like to mention that next weijk I'll be attending the Firs t
Tier Suburbs Stee ring Comm ittee Conference through NLC , in Kansas City . I intend to pay my own expenses .
I just wanled to let Council know that I will be out of town .
(iii) Mayor Woodward said I'd also like to mention that I w'II be attending the annual CML
Conferen ce up in Vail , in ,lune, mid-June , mostl y at my ex pense . I will probab ly utilize some of the funds from
my discretionary account. That Is something that t know a couple of other members were th inki ng about doing
also .
(iv) Ma yor Woodward said Marty had brought th is up ... t wanted to mentio n the
Ne ig hborhood Block captains and vo lunteers , other volunteers from the City and th e different Safety Services
programs . Their quarterly meeti ng is this Thursday , une 4~, 6:30 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. at the Commun ity Room .
You can get the block party appli ca tions . That is the first time they will be availabl a. They will be ava il able on
the web after that. So , please co me. Like Marty sa id, everybody is welcome and It gives everybody ar
opportunity to get engaged .
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(v) Mayor Woodward sa id I'd like to address some of the th ln~s about Jason Park . Martha ,
Tra~y and the folk s from Eng lewood Unleashed ... I certainly understand fear of dogs and how, especially a ch ild, •
or especially when it is your child or when you are the child ... and I know that Englowood Unleashed has been a
pro-active steward of our pa rk s. I th ink some of the suggestions that were brought up ton igh t ... regard ing the
fence ... I th ink I brought forward the signage , poss ibly two years ago , with pictures of it bf!:c.g at: number one the
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Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Page 17
he ight of the trash can ... at trash can level , and I think that that needs to be cha nged . It is ineffect ive. I also .
remembering back , it would have to be two or three years ago , we did discuss tho poss ibility of securing the
playground area and the pic nic area from the rest of the park . Kids have a natural tendency to run from dogs .
Dogs have a natural tendency to chase sometning that is runn ing . And there is part of the problem . So , I think
that's somethinp that , as stewards and stuff, I think that we defin itely want to take a look at and talk to you more
about that. La s, week , the Colorado Coalition for living safely with dogs ... bite data came out for 2008 . They 've
been do ing th is study for some time , over the past year for bite data for Colorado . That final report came out
last v:eek , I believe it was , and it was quite interesting . But the major bites that happen are at-large dogs , out in
the commun ity . Not dogs in parks or in dog parks or even at home . Of cours~. the majority of people that are
bit are children . So those are all th in gs to consider . That report is available from the Coalition for Living Safely
with Dogs . If anybody would wa nt that. I can get that information to them .
Just a suggestion too , when you were tal ki ng about ... when you doing the pick-up days , the poop pick up days ,
and I know that you do a lot of them , because I get your emails and you mention: Canine Corral and Jason
Park . and I know that there are a lot of responsible dog owners out there that participate , but I'm just wondering ,
it may be worth investing In a few vests that say volunteer on it. That might, all of a the sudden , tell somebody
that these are volunteers out here picking up the poop . This isn 't the City or somebody else . Also , knowing
what I knew was ... remembering your letter from a few weeks ago and trying to pass that on to Safety Services,
which did respond back to us . I don 't know ... l assume you saw that. From the audience , Ms . Griego replied no.
Mayor Woodward sa id well ... okay . They did do a response and I can get that ,c r ou . But I am on the board . as
a non-voting member, or Englewood Soccer Association . which is a private non-profit group, separate from the
City or Englewood . t e-ma iled the president of the club today and asked her if she was aware or any complaints ,
other than the ctlsgruntle~ YMCA team that had just joined us this spring, from this past season regarding
conflicts with dogs and soccer at Jason Park and she had written back ... no . I made it a point to bring that up at
the coaches meeting . If any coach had a concern or issue to ca :1 me , or a respective board member , so that we
•
could get it documented and foiward it to the City . As far as I know, everything was fine, which is an
improvement from some past years, when during the middle of the day ... all of a the sudden, there were some
dogs out there running . The leash law was intended for while people were playing . Dogs are not allowed ,
period . in the playground areas . On a leash or off a leash , whatever. They are not allowed in there . That's
what wa s intended .
(vi) Mayor Woodward said okay , I al,,o want to address Mr . Brown , if he is stil l here .
Co un c,I Member Wilson said he had to leave . Mayor W0<idward sa id he had lo leave . Regarding graffit i
removal. As a commerc ial property ... in the past as a commercial property manager and commercial real estate
agent and ti le recommendations from associations like the Build ing Owners and Managers Association , also
known as BOMA, which is the major international assoc iation for bu il ding owners . The thing about graffiti is that
you get it rem o ,ed as fast as you can and the faster that you get it removed , the le .. ; likely that people will come
back and tag ynur property . If you allow it to stay , people will come back and tag it again . That is partially why
that is set up that way . One of the things I think about Denver is the ir paint-outs : they dn l~e sand -blasti ng or
the water-blashng, and they do pa inting just like we do pa inting . You might not like the co lo r, but I can pretty
much assure you that it will no t match what's there . Bui we do have graffiti paint-outs : they are done through
Safety Services through the Community Relatio ns director . We have volunteers and we also have people that
are taggers that have done that. that are cleanhg up after they gel cau;ht. So with regard to graffiti removal ,
we have spent a lot of time over the years on discuss ing that and , I think personally , Englewood is pretty darn
clean . especially compared to Denver. And recently , that is with in the last month or si x weeks , for some reason
we 've been hit and I've noticed more of it even ton ight , some on the fl owers , unfortunate ly , the BID flowers on
Broadway .
(vii) Mayor Woodward said Rick ... I wanted to n , ntlon to you some things that you 've
probably not seen . You're certa inly not hearing up here ... are some of the things th at get answered for us
through the staff reports . Through staff reports , through the minutes from the Water and Sewer Board for
example , that talks about buying a piece of equ ipment and discussion that may go on in a Study Session
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regarding that, that ii is being brought foiward . Bui as an example , these are the two pieces , staff report-wise ,
on the med ical small area plan and every one or these always have staff reports that go along with this . So. it
may not seem like , in this formal presentation that maybe people hav en't discussed this or gorie over ii, but they
have . It has been gone aver ... start ing sim ilar to the budget meeting that ,au were al and go in g on all the way
Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Page 18
Into Septembe r into the budget ret reat and then into October and November when we approved the budget. All
of thos e funds and all of those things were discussed and we pretty much know what's com ing , what can be
hand led and what can't be handled . So an ambu lance , can it last another yea r? We co r!d as k someth ing li ke
that. The shell ? Whatever. I know If we were talking about the front end loader ... I kno· tllal could not last
another year. I don't th ink it could last another day, as I recall from the Water Board me ~ng . So anyway, there
is a lot of informatio n that we receive on this stuff. It isn't us sitt ing up here not asking questi ons . Some of us
really read and high light and ask questions about tha t... what we don 't understand. But a lot of times, those
questions have already been answered or are answered in the staff reports.
(b ) Council Members' Choice
(i) Council Member Penn:
1. He sa id Martha and Tracy and Ma lea and Sophie ... thank ,au for coming down and te lli ng us about
some of the problems that you have. I agree with Kim. I think this is a huge educational thing ... that we need to
educate the dog owners more than we need to educate ou r dogs. I think that is something. : would really like to
maybe look into either a fenced off area , or like Kim suggested a natural barrier area between the playground
and the northeast quadrant and possibly , probably, the soccer fields and the baseball field over there . I th ink
that would be something that we can look at. Slgnage is a key. Again , education , I th ink, is Just huge . Kim , I
know you guys get out the re and try to do that. Mr. Gilli!... when you talked about people getting out of their
cars. There are signs down there . Now whether the people take care of their signs ... they don't take care oi
them unfortunately . I cou ld sit down there, sit there and talk , and I know Kim and his group talk to these people
and it is tough to get them to go from their car to the Corral with a dog on a leash . It is stated right there In the
parking lot It probably doesn't happen , like you said, unfortunately, and I wish it would. Again, education is
huge . I hop• we keep working at it and get going . I like the inea of a natural barrier, Kim , I think between the
playground and the dog run , the dog people and stuff like that..
2. He said I also was going to talk to Mr. Brown about possibly, maybe we could look into an abatement.
Maybe people just signing off for an abatement and just saying okay if my place gets graffitied , would you
please paint ii as soon as you crme by or something like that, at a fee that would be comparable for the City
and of course for the businesses. 1 thin k we could possibly look into that.
3. He sa id the Farmer's Market is going really well down there on Broadway .
4. He sa id yraduation last Friday was excellent. I th ink Eng lewood High School graduated 153 students.
It was re all y different for me, because it was the first time , in w ell over 30-some years , that I have sat in the
stands and watched the proceedings instead of sitting out on the stage. It was a different time for me.
5. He sa id I gave all of the Council members a thing on the golf tournament request for the line item for
part icipating and supporting in the golf tournament. I would like someone to possibly look at that and make a
mot ion ton ig ht.
(Ii) Council Member Mccaslin:
1. He sa id Martha and T racy, I appreci ate you guy s com ing out and sharing your stories . I too ... and I th ink
I've ta lked to Jim about th is awhile back , about the fen cing and the playground area to keep the ~ids safe and
secure . I know in our school area , we have that issue , when the ki ds are out at re cess , dogs co ming in on the
property, so it is an issue that we need to look into. And I agree on the signage too, that we ne ed to make ii
more visible and help to educate the people who are mistreating or not read ing the rules . Th ank you for com ing .
2. He sa id I appreciate the support of Englewood Unleashed. You guys do a great job. I've been to your
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chil i coo k-offs I've been a judge. Unfortunate ly I didn 't ma ke it th is year. Yo u are fantastic suppa.1ers of that. •
You guys ... it was brought up about you not being residen ts of Englewood . Well, it's a shame that yo u guys are
more involved in our City than some of our res idents are . If we had our residents that took as much effort and
were proud of our City like you guys did , this City would be a lot better off. I appreciate your work . Don't let
an ybody tell yo u that we don 't. Don 't let an ybo dy run yo u off. You just stay right here.
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Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Page 19
3. He sa id Marty , I wan ted to wish you a happy 40~ birthday ne xt week . There was laughter . Counci l
Member Penn sa id happy birthday Marty. Council Member Mccasli n sa id I want to thank you fo r all of yov·
support too .
(iii) Council Member Moore :
1. He said , your Honor, I'll start with a coupl~ of motions , for 12 b (i) and 12 b (i i). These are the
amendments to our Council policies that we discussed . 12 b (i) ... primarily just adds Intern et access to the lis t
... regard ing the use of office suppl ies and City staff. That was the pri mary change . 1 ~ t (i i) amends ou r
language around our clscretionary funds . We 've just clea ned up the language, stating •; 'ng s In annual amou n\S
rather than quarterly amounts , a couple of clarifi cations about materials and meals ano . , tded language about
the discretionary funds are not intended to be used for charity events at the Individual Council members'
discretion ... not charity events, but charitable causes at the indivi~ual Council members ' discre tion and that
would be handled through our Aid to Other Agencies accounts . So with that, I am going to make a motion jointly
for 12 b (Ii and 12 b (II).
[Clerk's note : Resolution Nos . 40 and 41 , Series of 2009 are listed on the Agenda as Items 12 (b) (i) and (Ii).)
COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE M VED , AND COUNCIL MEMBER JEFFERSON SECONDED, TO APPROVE
RESOLUTION NO. 40, SERIES OF 2009 AND RESOLUTION NO. 41, SERIES OF 2009 ,
RESOLUTION NO . 40 , SERIES OF 2009
A RESOLUT ,ON AMENl)l /lG RESOLUTION NO . 60 , SERIES OF 1990, FOR THE ADOPTION OF A POLICY
• CONCERNING THE usr: OF OFFICE SUPPLIES :-.~ID CITY STAFF BY COUNCILPERSONS .
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and
RESOLUT IO N NO . 41 , SERIES OF 2009
A RESOLUTION AMENDING RESOLUTION NO . 11 , SERIES OF 1992 PERTAININ G TO THE ENGLEWOOD
CITY COUNCIL POLICY MANUAL -USE OF DISCRETI ONARY FUNDS .
Mayor Woodward asked if there was any further discuss io n.
Council Member Mccaslin sa id exc use me ... but when we are talkin g about chari table contribu t:ons , is
tha t...ki nd of clarify that fo r me .
Council Member Moore sa id to the extent that a Co~ncil member does not use the full allotment provi ded for the
discretionary funds , what we were saying is, that it is no t re ally up to that Council member to say ... I wa nt my
surplus to go to this part ic ular charity . We would rather ha ve the charitable use of City funds go through a
Council -wide vote rather than by the in divi dual Coun cil member's cho ice . Does that explalr ,? Counc il Member
Mccaslin said yes.
Council Membe r Jefferson said I've actually got a question about the policy . I don 't know if we would prefer to
discuss that now or if you would rather wa it until my Council member choice .
Council Member Mo ore sa id we could hold the vote , If you 'd prefer. Why don 't you do it now while the topic Is
up ?
Counci l Member Jeffe rson said eit her way . I can do it now. Bas ica lly, my question is in Section 1 it
says ... Mayor Woodward asked wh ich document? Council Member Jefferson said I'm sorry ... 12 b (i) there . It
says that the City Manager can ma ke available Jftice suppl ies necessary to carry out the duties of tl,e
Council person Including paper, envelopes , compute rs , etcetera . And I just wanted to run it by everyone here to
see if they th ink it is to provide paper and envelopes for my meet ings ... to Inv ite constituents .
Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Page 20
Council Member Moore replied I wou ld believe tha t it is appropriate that you are doing it to fulfill your Council
duties . So , I would have no concern .
C ,uncil Membe r Penn stated I wouldn 't have a problem with it at al l.
Mayor Woodward sa id I would have no concern with it . I th ink we have talked about it on the phJne . The only
place where I would start having a concern is if there were exclusions . I mean , if it is open to your district,
members of your district , I th ink that is absolutely leg ;timate and I'm all for it. But if it started ~eing select people
and excluding others , then I have a problem with it. Then I don 't think the transparency is th ere and that would
be my comment on that.
Council Member Jefferson said thank you for that. I viould like to gain a consensus as . you know , I was
attempting to get resources from the City Manager , and I was told that I need to get approval from Council .
Council Member Wilson said ... for the envelopes ? Council Member Jefferson sa id yes and the paper . But , in
my mind, the policy is black and white on the issue .
Council Member Oakley said ... your exclud ing comment Jim . He would have to ma il to everybody in District 1?
Mayor Woodward replied if he is doing a mail ing ... I don 't know. It seems to me that that would get really
expensive. but if you are mailing to everybody .. Council Member Oakley said that's what I sa id. What are you
counting as excluding?
Mayor Woodward said if you are doing an area . let's say an area ... let's do the hill of, for e,ample , the hill of
•
District 1, and that's meeting number one . Meeting number two might ~,e f, om Pl&ttc River Drive going east tr •
Elati , or something like that , between Kenyon and Yale . That's not what I am calling an exclusion . But to
exclude certain groups or people in anyway , then I have ... I have a problem with that type of exclusion .
Council Member Oakley said then I guess I would have to ask you Joe , what would your criteria be?
Council Member Jefferson replied for inviting? Council Member Oakley said yes . Mr. Jefferson sa id well , I think
there are probably two issues here . One , the biggest issue , is probably the laws on publ ic meetings . You kn ow
if you have more than three Council people in a room discussing policy , it needs to be noticed and posted and
so th at is probably the first issue . I've received a little bit of push-back ... in that other Council people want to be
prese nt at these meet ings , but that is not my intention to notice and post these . My intention is rather to have
•" info'1'!1 al gathering of const ituents , where people can feel free to discuss their opinions and we can have a
mo re fr as-flowing , less formal discuss ion on issues facing our community . So , that is probably the first issue .
And that's probably ... Jim , is that what you had concerns about or is that...or are we more concerned about
excluding members of the public? Mayor Woodward replied excluding member of the public and excluding
members of Council . (There was a lot of conversion going on at the same time and it was inaudible .] Mayor
Woodward sa id ca n I ask Dan for a legal op inion on that? My understand ing of the open meeti ngs rule is if, if
for example , if Joe had a district meeting and le t's say he didn 't do a public posting ... because he in his
district ... Jill lives in District 1 and Bob lives in District 1, and they came as constituents and sat up there , did not
part icipate in the discussion of policy, are they .. is Joe break ing the public policy rule at that point...or the open
meeting rule ?
City Attorney Brotzman sa id technically no and there is actually a case on that ; that the District Court actually
found that that was a violation of the Open Meetings law an~ the Court of Appeals overturned that. Now that
be ing said , we always notice all of those meetings . Any time there is a policy discussion , with three Council
members present , we have always giv en notice .
Council Member Moore said the problem that I have is clearly we can talk to an individual constituent one-on-•
one and Joe 's desire is merely somewhere down the spe ctrum from that. I don 't feel like I am in a position to
say that is not an effect ive way to serve your Counc il. So if Joe is ok ay with the transparency issues ... he 's
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Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Page 21
c•.rta inly being conscious of the Open Meeting laws ... somet imes we try differen t way s 10 sr<> '· "~ ,. • an be
c,ffect ive. I don 't object to his desire .
Mayor Woodward said if there is a way that you wanted to mod ify this or was this someth ing yoc wanted
brought forward in a new resolution? Council Memb,sr Jefferson sa id no . In fact , what I'm loo ki n!; for is jus : 1
simple consensus that what I'm describing falls unde r our current policy , because there seems le be a little bi t of
interpretation issues going on there and whethe r, what I was planning , falls within everyone 's intarpretalion of
what's Ir.eluded in our pol icy .
Council Member Moore stated if I may clarify , I think if we could remove this open meeting i•;sue and yo u were
do ing It for the whole district, there would not be an objection to ii coming under this policy . i ~on 't believe your
issue is really ... Council Member Jefferson sa id no , no , no. Very clearly though , I needed ... if I didn 't bring it to
everyone here , I wouldn 't have got ii from the City Manager's office .
Council Member Moore said right , so I think there are two things ...
Council Member Jefferson said so that's the only reason that I am bringing it forward here , otherwise , I wouldn 't
be as king for everyone 's pemn iss ion .
Council Member Moore said I think the policy as written doesn 't get to your issues . So I think we can
comfortably pass this without an amendment. Separately as far as your issue goes , fo r Joe 's sake, we need to
seek consensus one way or the other about whether or not that is an issue .
Council Member Jefferson said exactly and so that is why ... I appreciate that. If you would like to move ahead
with the vote , and perhaps ... perhaps under Council Member Choice , if everybody just wants to give their quick
• thoughts, then we can just move on .
•
Mayor Woodward asked if there was any other discussion . There was none .
Vote ra■ults :
Motion carri ed .
Ayes : Council Members Penn , Mccaslin , Moore , Woodward , Jefferson ,
Wilson , Oakley
Nays : None
Council Member Wilson sa id so we are going to discuss the issue of your meeting ? Mayor Woodward said
when we come back . Council Member Wilson said okay . Council Member Jefferson said sure . I'll bring ii up
under my Council Mamber Choice and if everybody would just please comme,• "1 appreciate ii. Than k you .
2. He sa id regard ing Jason Park, just a couple of qui ck comments . I appr, ~ th e presentation tonight.
The photos were actually very helpful also . I would just like to take a moment to _ ,Jre my empathy ... !, too , as I
sa id when we were pass ing the last round of leash laws ... that I find it odd that we would open up our parks
where the ch ildren are ... to dogs and not allow me to do ii in my front yard . Just a personal note . Also I thin k
the idea of fencing in the children , as opposed to the dogs doesn 't strike me as the right answer either .
3. He sa id and finally I'll end with j ust a couple of quick comments to Mr. Crabtree . I, too , don 't like debate
in th is manner . Like last time , I will extend an ol ive branch . I respect your right to be unhappy with this Counc il
and to express your frustration . And as much as I may disagree with you , part icula rl y your last comment wh ich
was , as you intended , taken with offense , I will let you have the last word and not get into a long rebuttal and I
will accept your correction to my one statement that there were 57 signatures on that petition , not 40. So than k
you for correcting the record for me on that.
(iv) Council Member Oakley:
1. He sa id to Martha and her daughter Tracy and her lovel y grandchildren ... ! talked to you on the phone .
I've been through th is over the last two years , with th is situation at Jason Park . And I respect the wo rk that
Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Page 22
Englewood Un leashed has ~een do ing and I hope lhat the recommendations tnat they have made and some of
the other recommendations from Council will help the situat io n. I, too , ta k• offense when it is stated that we
need to fence in the playground area . I would rather have it wordad that wE need to fence in the dop area . And
as far as separating the pic nic are a from the playground area , as far as I kn ow, people have a right to picnic
anywhere the y wa nt to in the park , so I don 't know how we can fen ce Iha • ~'f Jason Par k is a little different than
the other off-leas h parks because of its size and the way it is situated wit , /he playgro und . An d therefore , I
believe lies the probl em . We 're never going to be able to ma ke the little kidd ies as safe in that partic ular park as
we would lik e to because of its size . I feel that sometime down the line there is going to be something that
happens that we are all go ing to be very so rry for . I don 't even want to think about it. I spoke two years ago on
behalf of a group of ,;on st ituents from my dis tr ict that came and wanted to have Ja son Park turned ba ck into a
neighborhood park and have the fine fa ci lities that we have at Belleview as the dog park . There was not support
on this Council for that and I feel that there isn't now . And I'm even a little milder on it than I was then , but I still
see it as a probl em . I am by the Bellev iew fac ility almost daily and I never see any problems . because that 's
what it's for . They come there . They bring the ir dogs . Everybody 's happy . The dogs are all happy . Everything
goes perfectly . We never get any compla ints on that. The onl y place that we get a compla int is when we are
letting the dogs run loose in a public park. I know that we are not go ing to get th at r~anged tonight , but I fee l
that someday we 're going to be sorry for it.
2. He sa id there are a ccuple of questions I would lik e to as k Mr. Love . Are there any dog parks south of
here In Littleton or in Douglas County , or in Jefferson County or is this th e furthest one south? Mr. Love replied
to answer your question Mr . Oakley ... there are some parks further south . There is Wynetka Ponds Park , which
I bel ieve is at Lowell and Bowles . That's an off-leash park th at has opened in th e last year. There aren 't a
whole lot in Jefferson County and there are many in Douglas County . All around Highlands Ranch. pretty much
east and west of Douglas County ... there are many . Council Member Oakley sa id just out of curiosity then , you
said you have a membership of about 300? Mr. Love replied yes sir. Council Member Oakl ey sa id do you know
roughly how many of them are Englewood residents and how manv are out of Englewood ? Mr. Love replied yes
we do . There are approximately 23% are Englewood res idents . l he rest are a mixture of Denver , Littleton ,
Hig hlands Ranch and Douglas County . Council Member Oakley clarified 23 %? Mr . Love replied yes . Council
Member Oakle y said that surprises me . Thank you .
Council Member Mccaslin said the Dav id Lorenz Dog Park . There is a dog parl' on County Line Road and
about Quebec and Holly . Mr . Love said County Line and Holly . Yes , between Colorado Boule va rd and Holly .
Council Member Mccaslin sa id tha t's South Suburban . Mr. Love sa id that's a South Subu rban . It's also
managed by Douglas County Open Space . Counc il Member Mccaslin sa id oka y.
Council Member Oa kle y said one other question , I guess . Do you have any way of knowing how many of your
people use Belleview and how many use Jason ? Mr. Love said not really . I can give you a guesstimate . A lot of
people lik e to go to Jason . part icularly on bad we ather days because Jason , of cou rse . is grass . There are also
a lot of peop le who just enjoy that par k, period . Spe cifica lly people , who would go to Englewood Unleashed or
Canine Corral , are there spec ifically to socialize their dogs . I wo uld say the ma jority of people who cou ld us e
either park , use the Canine Corral . There are still a few people who use Jason , but many times I go to Jason
and th ere 's nobody there and Can ine Corral is very crowded .
Coun ci l Member Oakley sa id let me ask you ... how did the wood chips work out for you? Mr . Love re,lied
excellent. Council Member Oakley said I thought they took away most of the mud problem . Mr . Love said it did .
In the summer , we know it will ta ke away most of the dust problem that wu re always having . So , we had a nice
donation from Fort Loga n and we thank the City for helping us move that. It took all day . One Tuesday we
closed th e park and acco mplished it, but we had a few negative comments , but mos tl y, I'd say 95 %, were very
pos itive comments . And the dogs seem to enjoy it. They run and play on it so it's not a big dea l. So it has been
very helpful . It is a really nice amenity to the park ; It is real ly an improvement. Council Membe r Oakley said it
appeared to me it did , but I j ust wanted your opinion . Mr. Love sa id it did and we are really proud of that project.
•
•
We figured out probably between the labor, moving and actual retail value of the park mulch , it was probably in •
th e ne ighborhood of $10 ,000 .00 . Do you have any other questions Council? No one did. Thank you .
Counc il Member Oakley said so with th at, I guess , I would support some kind of fence , protecting the
playground , but not fenc ing in the playground . I'm ta lki ng about maybe a fenc e barrier between th e ball field
Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Page 23
• and the soccer field and the grassy area , wh ich in my op inion , is a picn ic area before it is a dog park . Bui then I
would even go along with , maybe , fenc ing that area off, as long as the playground and everyth in g on over to
Quincy was strictly off limits to the dogs .
Counc.il Meri ;~er Mccaslin sa id Wayne , I got !o mai<e sure ... you said you thought it was offensive and I take
offense to that , c~cause ;, ,ve aon ·t protect our kids on the playground , why is that offens ive, so the dogs can 't
come Nhile they are ~"'"9 the sl ides , and the jungle gyms , and the swings ... Council Member Oakley said
becau ne ii is a park first and a park for the kids should not be fenced off.
Counci. Member Mccaslin sa id then we have a park for the kids or a park for the dogs . If we are going to co-
mingle these two , then we have to come up with some solution that's go in g to help ... that we don 't lose a child
throur,h ... or have some serious injury . I absolutely agree with you . I don 't think ii is offensive to rope it off. I
thin~ it is Ji..st protective more than anyth ing .
!Aayor Woodward said I agree with Bob . To me it doesn 't so~m any different than a playground area at school
'Nhen , you have fenced in a playground area and whether yoi; want to call ii fenc in g In or fencing out dogs ,
lhat's one thing . Now , as far as Council Member Oakley said ... now if you are going to pen something up , you 're
~olng to pen up the dogs . You 're not going to pen up the kids . There was applause .
Council Member Moore said Mayor, if I may make a suggestion . Mayor Woodward replied you may . Council
Member Moore said I think that there is enough interest in the top ic that it would be worthwh ile lo put on a Study
Session where we can devote more time and fresh minds to ii. I certainly would support doing that. I would like
to talk about this some more myself.
Mayor Woodward said okay .
• Council Member Oakley said I apologize .
Council Member Moore asked if that was an acceptable option Wayne .
Counc il Member Mccaslin said Wayne , you do not need to apologize .
Council Member Moore asked if that was an acceptable option Wayne . We'll continue th is at a Study Session?
Council Member o, <ley said yes .
Mayor Woodward said Wayne , do you have anyth ing else ? Mr . Oakley said yes , if I can calm down .
3. He sa id to Mr. Gillit's questions ... in my other life , I was in charge of equ ipment replacement for the City
and we have certa in criteria that we use in that regard . You can trust me when I say that equipment is judged
on its current condition and it is common to defer for a year or two sometimes . So generally , when they get to
us , they have already been through that process and we know that they're to the point where someth ing needs
to be done . So , that is why we probably don 't question lhem as often as you think we might. He said the other
subj ect, as Jim said , it had been through th u Water and Sewer Board . II had been through several other ... the
ra te increase ... it had been brought to us . II was based on how long ii had been since the last increase and
what the expenses were go ing to be ... judged to be in the future and that's why ii was deemed necessary and
that's why we passed It the way we did . All of those lhin~s are questioned . Although ii may not be here in th is
particular time, they are gone over quite extens ively .
4. He sa id ... the graffiti . I have never been satisfied with our efforts on the graffiti . I've made this clear
before . I personally th ink that the only way !hat we can ever keep ahead of the graffiti is have somebody where
that is their job . That's all they do. That's the only way it can be done in a timely manner . Volunteering Is a
•
good thing , but it never is In a timely manner. Sometimes it is two or three months between volunteer. I'm qu ite
sure, right now, that given the budget constraints that we can't even drea m of doing something like that , so we
are go ing lo have to do something else . But it's certain ly noth isg ... lt's ceriainly not to a point where I'm
completely sat i:f:od with them . I ca, ,I suggest anyth ing right now that we can do , give n ou r budget constraints .
Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
P•ge 24
Mayor Woodward sa id thank you .
(v) Counc il Member Wilson said I would like to address Martha and Tracy and tell you how
sorry I am . And that I understand your concerns . It is inappropriate . The dogs are not supposed to be on the
playground . I didn 't know if the pictures that were sent around will be helpful for Englewood Unleashed ... you
got them ... okay . And the dogs , so I thought that would be helpful . I appreciate Englewood Unleashed coming
forward and trying to come up with solutions to help this . As usual , you 've always been very good about that.
Let's see what we can do to rectify th is and maybe Code will be able to go there a little bit more often or at these
times that you 're talking about and that might be helpful if they are tir.keted . Someone from the audience asked
who Jill? Council Member Wilson replied Code Enforcement. The olhc· thing that might be hel pful is if
someone from Englewood Unleashed could go there and police It maybe at tm,se times . I don 't know if it was
the same times . From the audience , Ms . Griego replied I take my granddaughters separately from my daughter
so when I am watch ing my granddaughters , they have a choice of going to Rotolo Park or to Jason and they
choose Jason . Sometimes I will take them at 2 In the afternoon , sometimes it is at 5 in the evening . Different
days . Council Member Wilson said it did look like they were of some of the same dog . I mean , everyday ..
Mayor Woodward sai d to be recorded you need to come forward to the mike , to be able to be heard .
Ms . Griego came up to the podium microphone . She said those were at different times . Now that I am retired
and I take the grandbabies at 2 in the afternoon, sometimes at 11 in the morning , one time at 10 o'clock . That's
when the dog growled at us . I think it was somewhere around 11 :30 . And the grandkids can go to Rotolo Park
or Jason because I'm right down the block from either one of them and they always choose to go to Jason . So if
I don 't want to deal with the dogs , we al•vay• go to Rotolo . So we will go down there. The pictures that I took ,
that I did take , that was for the last week . don't remember what days , maybe a Tuesday and a Thursday that I
•
went down there, and then Friday . So th were differen t times . I drive by there if I am going toward Broadway ; •
I'm always on Quincy . And when I look over there , I can see the guys playing basketball and the dogs are just
running. Or they are playing volleyball and you can see the dogs running . I do want to say something . You
guys were talking about having the kids caged , having a fence up there and I understand about the dogs and
the mud during the winter . What is goin g to happen when you do cage that area? That is going to turn into
mud . At one time , when that dog park started, ii was beautiful . It had grass , but then you have all of the dogs
and then you are not go ing lo have that same grass and you are go ing to have that same problem . Jason is not
going to look as beautiful as it does now . I th ink ii Is a beautiful park . You are going to have one section of ii
covered in dirt. II is not go ing to have the same appeal , but at least the kids will be safer if you decide to do that.
But as far as ha vi ng the kids caged in , the~ are not the animals . They are not the ones who are fighting with
dogs and we hav e to remembe r that they are not running to the dogs . These animals are coming to them . They
are there to play in the playground . The merry-go•rounds that you guys put on there . The slides and
everyth ing . So that is what they are there for . Not to be wilh the dogs . They have dogs at home . They don 't
need to go to the park to have dogs . Council Member Wils on said thank you . Ms . Gri ego sa id thank you .
Council Member Wilson said so with that being said , I didn 't know if the pictures would help . Hopefully , maybe
someone will know . I th ink ii is always good to call Code or the pol ice ... the probhm of the dogs running ... the
quicker that they could get there .
(vi) Council Membe r Jefferson :
1. He said thank you, your Honor . I just wanted to second the com ments to Martha, Tracy , little Malea and
Soph ia. I too am sorry that this ... these incidents happened at Jason Park . It is unfortunale that some people
can 't...don 't know the rules or don 't want to follow the ru les that can allow for them ... the greatest use of our park
by maxim izi ng the utility by allowing for multiple uses .
2. He said I too wanted to thank Kim , Jean , and Rhonda for all of your work in our community aod for
coming down and being proact ive about the situation and try ing to communicate some solutions . I'm personall y •
of the opinion that , with add iti onal signai;e , a little bit of stepped up enforcement of some of our current
ord inances and per haps a little bit of natural land scaping changes , that we can beg in to utilize the park , with
minimizi ng a lot of these conflicts .
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Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Page 25
3. He said to Jerry ... lel me know afterwards ... where yo u are talking about. Maybe I can help you pick out
whose lot it is ... if ii is a public lot or private lot ... and maybe figuring out a solution . You may be trespassing ... I
don 't know where yo u are at... but maybe we can ta lk about ii after this meeting .
4 . He sa id to Mr . Brown with his graffiti problem ... I, too , am frustra ted with th,. graffiti problems the
commun ity continues to face . I j us t recently had an issue in my block ... the y came by and tagged the ent ire
block . Fortunately , I was able to take care of it before the City came and prov ided the notice . I will also agree
wi th the Mayor, that the num. • one issue to prevent graffiti is quickly remove graffiti . So , perhaps , some sort of
solution , like a voluntary abat,, ,ent sign up or someth ing ... can be explored . I think the cost can probably be
pushed down to the people w,,,-si gn up for the program . So , perhaps , that can be either a zero cost or possibl y
even a revenue generator to, 11 · , City in the future , if we explore that option ... I can 't .ay !or sure what it would
be .
Mayor Woodward said if we could get those flash cameras .. Council Member Jefferson said yes , those flash
ca,neras will he lp a lot...significanlly ... l agree . I understand Mr . Brown 's concern ... he is sort of the victim and
he suddenly becomes the perpetrator ... so . I certainly understand that... but I do recognize that we need to get
rid of it quickly . The solution ... like a voluntary abatement sign up sounds like a very reasonable solution for
those businesses who are unab le to take ca ,e of it In a timely manner.
5. Ho sa id that brings me back to my paper and envelope situation ... I'm sure everyone loves discussing .
th ink I heard from Randy ... he said he doesn 't hav e a problem with It. Is that correct Randy ? Council Member
Penn said I don't have a prr,blem with ii. Mr. Jefferson said Bob ... where are you at? Counc il Member Mccaslin
said I don 't have a problem . Council Member Jefferson said no problem ... no problem ... Jim ... we heard from the
Mayor ... does anybody have any thoughts on that?
Coun cil Member Wilson said I have a problem with the exclus ion . Mr. Jefferson said I understand that. Ms .
Wilson sa id I don 't have a problem with the paper and envelopes , but the exclusion of certain people and why
would you want to leave part of your district out? Mr. Jefferson said sure ... and the only exclusion party we are
talk ing about is elected offic ials up here . I mean I would probably exclude someone like yourself, because you
already have a very large say in our community ... again ... if I get more than three of us in a room where we are
discussing pol icy, I begin to violate laws . You know , when you get into that formal meeting , like we have here
tonight , it doesn 't fee l like a conversat ion . We gel a lot of people that r.ome in ano bring co ncerns ... they have to
wait around for two and a hal f hours to get a response from us and they are unable to vo ice some of those
concerns . I have had multiple situations where I have had a co11stituenl call me uµ ,ind sa.v I am concerned
about XYZ issue and I say ... that is a very legitimate issue , why don 't you bri ng it to Council . And they say
oh ... they don 't want to give a speech , they don 't want to feel like people are picking at v.hal they are saying .
There is an intimidation factor there . So , my thought is I really want to bring it down to th e lowest common
denom ina tor and really make it feel informal and comfortab le for everyone involved . The only other possibility ul
exclusion may be if I feel someone is unru ly, unp roducti ve ... l will ... at :ny sole discretion ... slnce it will be on
prival e property ... at my sole discretion I will be able to decide if someone needs to be excluded . Bu ~ just an
FYl ... the only reason I would ever do something lik e that is If I fell like lhe pe rso n was unruly or unproduct ive or
somehow ho lding back the produ ctivity of the meet ing generally .
Counc il Member Wilson sa id can I ask you ... when peop le call you and as k you someth ing ... do you put it in as a
Counc il Request. Mr . Jefferson sa id somet imes ... if I feel it is necessary ... somelimes I will jusl respond . Ms .
Wilson sa id okay ... I'm j ust saying where that is an area where they don 't have to feel int imidated . Mr. Jefferson
said sure ... but sometimes these th ings need policy issues . A lot of limes peop le will bring up pol icy iss ues that
r•,rrently need support of four of the seven Council people here . It Is not something I can un ilaterally just dec ide
and say give them what they want. I need them ... their support ... to come and lobby for particular pol icy
changes , if they th ink it is In the ir best interes t. That is why sometimes I just can 't handle it mysel f ... you know
wha t I mean . I wish I co uld. Ms . Wilso n said well then we don't call it a democracy . There was laughler .
Coun cil Membe r Mccaslin sa id my qu estion is ... be ing in your district...if I go in ... and it's just me and you and
yourgroup ... would that be an iss11e ? Mr . Jefferson sa id in aoother area ... and I think I talked lo Bob a little bit
about this ... perhaps to allev iat e some of the other Council peoples concerns about what might be happen ing at
Englewood City Council
June 1 , 2009
Pa ge 26
some of these ... l'm ha ePY to have at some of my mee ti ngs , a special gues t...another Council person . I've
alread) ·axte nded an in vite to Bob ... If you wo uld like to attend the first one ... just so t1 ,,1 nobod y feels like th ey
don 't know what is go in g on there . Again , policy decisions can 't be made at these me ding s ... I'd be the only
elected representat ive there . Noth ing wo uld change you know ... out , again ... to allev iate some of those
concerns , I would be happy to have anybody, on an ind ivi dual bas is come , to one of the meetings ... and
announce you as a guest and let you speak with some of th e const ituents as well.
Counc il Member Mccaslin said Jim, In the past when we have had these open meetings , usually ... I know when
I first came on Council. .. we had them and we posted them and there were no proble ms . Is ti1at correct? Mayor
Woodward sa id that is correct. We had th em in lieu of Study Sessions , however, and we held them quarterly ,
by distri ct. At that time there wasn 't much of a turnout. That was the issue there . That is why we
decided ... and , John , correct me if I am wrong ... to eli minate those because it seemed to be more product ive to
have the Study Sess ions .
Counci l Member Jefferson sa id and again , just to point out , this would be very different. Like I said ... the
procedures , the po licies involved would be very different ... it wou ld be on an informal basis ... I think it might turn
ou t to be more popu lar than some of those last dec isions . Finally I will po int out th at, as a group , Council made
those decis ions to have those meetings and to not hav e those meetings . Th is is a very different decis ion , this is
an ind ivi dual decision that I will be mak ing . So , with all due respect...excuse me .. But , Mr . Mccaslin sa id, you
are us ing City turds to help you with this . Now i I wanted to do like you , I would put out my own stationary and
my own thing and I wouldn 't ask the City to fund my meeting with my constituents , that I choose to have ... or
exclude . I thin k that is the difference ... it is a perception ... everybody looks al it and says why are having these
meetings and you are excluding ... ~ou are only inviting whoever you want to ... l th ink that Is our pe rception and I
need to get ove r tha t before I can buy into i;, Mr . Jefferson said sure , I would be happy to ... l have had
conversations with yo u 3I length about this ... I'm happy to make everyone on Counc il I, y to feel comfortable with
•
what I am do ing . My in tention here is not to undermine what anyone is doing , or view things negat ively . My •
intentior. here is truly a positive outreach to the community . allow for constituent input on an informal bas is .
Again Bob , I certa inly understl'lnd your concerns . Like I sa id I would ~e happy ... I think I have taken very
reasona ble steps to try to alleviate some of those concerns . Above and beyond that , perhaps you want to look
at redoing the policy that we just passed . Because ,n my mind , it is very black and white under that
pol icy ... what th ose discretionary funds , as well as City Manager materials , are appropriate for and what they are
not ,1ppropriate for .
Counc il Member Mccaslin sa id I can agree with tha t. .. there might be some changes there ... but the way it
stands now ... l agree with you . I thin k maybe it :s something we can ta lk about. Counc il Member Jefferson said
sure and like I sa id, I am more than happy to al levi ate anyone 's concerns . Bob , I would love to have yo u at the
first meet ing , if you would like to be there , I would love to have you pre se nt as a guest . Just so you can ge \ an
idea of what is going on there ... how those thirgs are run and see how it goes . I extend the same thing to any
other Council person wh o has so n:"' r..:oncerns
MayorWoodwa1d sa id I guess , for me ... and we have discussed this in the pas t...but it is not Joe Jeffers on
having th is meetin g ... it is a policy dec ision of doing this and so its somebody else in the future ... 2 years , 5
years , 10 years down the road . So , agai n, that is whe1e ... I just...and ma ybe some more discussion amongst
us . clears that up for me. Council Member Jefferson sa id I hope to not discuss th is any further ... ho nestly ... lhis
is my issue ... to ga in a consensus here ... ! wo uld move forward ... regardl ess of wh ic h way the consensus
goes ... aga in, th is is my intention to work with the Counc il and try to be a team playe r .. however , regardless of
the comments I have rece ived , I will continue with this program .
Council Member Moore sa id Joe , if I may , I am going to make a mo ti on , just because I th ink we need clarity on
th is. I make a motion to support Council Member Jefferson 's request to provide invites , or whatever, under this
pol icy . I don 't beli eve we have sufficient grounds to say what he is ask in g is inappropriate , even if individually
we might try different lhings . So , I th ink tha t we need to ... since there is no t a solid reaso , .... I don 't see a sol id •
reason for an obje ction to his re quest , I th ink we need to approve it and make sure the City Man ager has clear
direct ion to support it. So , I am mak ing tha t mot ion.
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Engl ewood City Counc il
Ju ne 1, 2009
Page 27
COUNC IL MEMBER MOORE MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER PENN SECONDED , TO SUPPORT
COUNC IL MEMBER JEFFERSON 'S REQUEST TO PROVIDE INVITE S, OR WHATEVER , UNDER THE
OFF ICE SUPPLY POLICY .
Mayor Woodward sa id I don "t know if we have had enough discuss io n or .. Co uncil Member Jefferson sa id I will
finally en d it aga in. just by sayi ng my intentions are in no way to undermine wha t the r~st of th e Council is doing ,
I mean no dis respect by doing it. simp ly do ing thi ngs differe nt ly may lead to a better res ult.
Mayor Woodward said . an d agai n, it is not just you , it's all Counci l members . Coun ci l Me mber Jefferson said I
appreci ate that.
Cou ncil Member Mccaslin said what was that? Mayor Woodward said ... I said It is not just Joe , but the pol ic y is
the same for all Cou ncil me mbers . So , if you wan ted to do somelhing if a grou p at large.
Cou ncil Member Moore said let me clarify . The mo tion is sim ply with re spe ct to Joe ·s request , so tha t we can
move or.. If at a later date . we find more compelling reasons why t~is is not a good po licy ... fine . My motion was
not for a policy as ;nuch as the examp le in front of us toni ght is perm iss ible ... th ere is not enou gh to say it is not
leg iti mate . But , Mayor Woodward sa id, it is an example only . Mr. Moore said It is an example ... righ t.
Deputy City Cle rk Bush sa id John would you please restate your motion . I'm sorry .
Counc il Member Moore said I made a mot ion to support Council Member's Jefferson requesl to use th e Off ice
Supp ly policy to fun d his ex perimental co nstituent meetings . Ms . Bush said than k you . Mr. Moore said you are
we lcom e.
The motion as restated :
COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE MOVED , AND COUNCIL MEMBER PENN SECONDED , TO SUPPORT
COUNCIL MEMBER JEFFERSON 'S REQUEST TO USE THE OFFICE SUPPLY POLICY TO FUND HIS
E>:PERIMENTAL CONSTITUENT MEETINGS .
Council Member Jeff erson sai d a~ain , if additional comment wi ll help any of the Cou ncil people . thi s will no t cost
a ton of money here , we are talki ng abo ut just the cost of the envelopes . paper and poter,t ially a $100 .00 or
$20 0.00 of my discret ion ary funds . The rest wi ll be pa id fo r out -of-pocket.
Vote re sults :
Ay es: Co uncil Members Penn , Moore . Jefferso n
Na ys: Counc il Membe rs Mccaslin. Woodward . Wil son . Oakley
Mot ion den ied .
Coun ci l Member Jefferson said okay , I would Just like to po int out that it see ms to me that the po licy on lhis
issu e is very black and whi te . I don "t know ... l would love to hear some co mments ab out why thi s exam ple is not
acce ptable under th is current pol icy . Can I get any feedback on thal ?
Coun ci l Member Mccaslin sa id aga in , I'm going to :ell yo u and I told you before ... it's a perception of. .. il ... to not
post ii ... ,f you pos t it and say okay .. if you post it ar d say I'm having a meetin g, I'm going lo take th is mone y ... if
you pul a clause In there ... I want to involve ... not jt st a certa in part of my commu nity ... but my populat io n. It
feels lik e an excl us ion of some bod y. Mr . Jefferson said of who , Bob ? Mr , Mccasli n sa id I don 't kn ow .. , they are
leaving that very gray area out there ... Mr. Jefferson sa id no . I have bee n very cle ar about the issue . I told you
that I will Invite registered voters . The only people that may . potentially , be excluded , are the folks that •• e
sitt ing up here and th e folks !hal may potentially be unrul y at my meeting s and would make them less
productive . Again I.. Mr. Mcc aslin sa id but you are say ing the peop le up here . Why wr.Jld I not wan• some of
my Council peo pl e with me to answer some quest ions th al I may ... l don 't know why we liave su ch ar issue with
tha t. That has been my co ncern from the very begi nning .
Cou ncil Member Jefferson sa id I ha ve attempled to address th ose co ncerns multiple times . Mr . M,oCaslin sa id I
know and I am not happy .. Mr . Jefferson sa id it seems that lh is is a very black and white is s,,e I don 't
Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Paga 28
understand , aga in ... I feel lik e I am be ing discriminated aga inst in th is situation . Again , this pol icy seem, very
black and while . I don 't th ink I should have had to ga in consensus from Council to beg in ·Nilh . I think the pol icy
is ext ra clear on th is issue and for everyone to be hold ing me back on my attempts to communicate with my
constituents ... is totally inappropriate in my mind .
Council Member Wilson said I don 't think anyone Is holding you back, it's just whether you are using City funds .
You can have the meeting . No one can stop you from doing that. It is just using the City funds .
Although , Cm•ncil Member Jefferson sa id, the Polley is very clear that we have a $600 .00 budget to be used at
the Council person 's discretion . We discussed at length , in our last meeting , about the policy ... that we should
not be polic ing anyone 's use of discretionary funds , every Council person 's discretion is good and we discussed
that and that was fine ... and now when I bring a particular example of that , I am turned down .
Mayor I•1ryodward said I don 't think we came to \he concl"sion that total discretion ... there wasn 't total
agreerr., .,ton discretion ... I mean t~.ere ar , certain things ... lhat is why you did this . Council Member Jefferson
sa id forthe discretionary funds? Mayor ~,ioodward said yes ... that is why we came up with the policy .
Council Member Moore said ... two issue s ... actually Joe , I am personally not sure it falls under discretionary
funds because that's for books , publications , newspapers ... maybe it does or doesn 't... but I am totally with you
and I hate to take a losing vote and argue over ii . Council Member Jefferson sa id so do I John . And I hate lo
bring th is up in th is type of way . Mr. Moore sa id oght, but I am trying to support you here ... office supplies that
are reasonably needed to carry out the duties ul the City Council person . How can we sit here tonight with th is
policy and tell Joe we are exercising judg ment over what he feels . Mr. Jefferson said I would encourage
everyone to re-read the policy . Mr. Moore said it is clear that Council Member Jefferson feels that he needs to
do this to carry out his duties as a Council member . Who of us are really in a position to challenge that? Mr.
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Jehsrson said thank you . I am an elected representative , just like the other 7 members here and I do not tell •
you how to represent yo ur constituents .
But , Council Member Wilson said , I th ink where th is started is when you sa id you will select who you want to
come . So , at that point.. Mr . Jefferson said that is ::it my discretion , that is totally appropriate .
Council Member Moore said that Is his judgment. If you don 't like It... if you don 't like it ... that's fine . If those in
the audience , that are all for open govemrJent, don 't like it, they can criticize him, but none of us sitting up here
tonight , really ... Mr. Jefferson said ... have any authority over me . Mr . Moore said ... and so th ink about th is
yourself ... I don 't war.I you guys telli ng me what I can 't do if I feel it is what is needed .
Council Member Jefferson said thank you Counc il Member Moore ... I apprec iate you stepp ing up and saying
this ... because I agree , this Is totally inappropriate .
Council Member Oakley said did I miss something tonight? Did you say anytime ton ight that you were go ins !o
invite every reg istered voter in your district or did you j ust tell Bob that? Mr . Jeffe rson sa id that is my p!an . Mr.
Oakley sa id did you say that tonight? Did I have the benefit of that knowledgeb ,f\l · • I voted ? Mr. Jeff•r•on
sa id I bel i• , I just sa id it a few moments ago . Just to be crystal clear ... that is r· ; ,,,!ention .
Council Member Oakley said if you had , aid that earl ier than I would have ,ncwn it and mr vote may have been
different. Mr . Jefferson said the n let's vote again .
Council Member Moore said Joe ... as much as I want to move this al ong , I th ink you are consent ing to a
cond ition that you shouldn 't be consenting to . This is within ... as an elected official. .. th is Is within my right to
figure out what I n•ed to do within the boundaries of the meeting laws . Whether Joe tries this once and doesn 't
like it and falls to go to the rest of the constituents ... that is his choice . We do not have something In place that
allows us to pronibit him from exercising his j udgmen t. In fa irness , the one area is ... we are talking about City •
funds and we , collectively , do have the right to exercise control ~ver City funds . We have a policy ... we have a
supply policy in place and maybe It is under dlscretionary ... but Joe has made a compelling ... Mr . Jefferson sa id
if other members would like to change that pol icy , I am open to that discuss ion . But as the policy st&nds I thi n~ I
am on very sol id grounr:! flere .
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Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Page 29
Council Member Oakley sa id you asked why we vota d ine way we did and it Is not necessarily someth ing we
have to give you an answer for . Mr. ,letfers on sa id I agree . Mr . Oakley sa id the reason I voted for it was I was
under the impression that you may u,e this 1ust for special interest groups . Mr. Jefferson said that is not my
intent.
Council Member Mccaslin said I second that. That is the on ly reason . And Jc~ .. we have had these talks .
Council Member Jefferson can I make another motion ... I think Iha.ea conse .sus he re. I would like to make a
motion .
Mayor Woodward sa id go ahead ma ke a mntion ... one more time we will play this on e ou t.
Counc il Member Jefferson said let's play it out. Wayne are you with me here th is time? I don 't want to do th is ..
Counc il Member Oakley said you asked me why Joe and I told you . Mayor Woodward said I want to do it one
lime and that's it. So, go ahead and make you, motion and then let's call for the question . Mr. Jefferson said
sure .
COUNCIL MEMBER JEFFERSON MOVED , AND COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE SECONDED, TO HAVE THE
MOTION RECONSIC l:RED TO APl'ROVE PROVIDING PAPER AND ENVELO PE S FOR COUNCIL MEMBER
JEFFERSON'S USE FOR THE PURPOSE OF HAVING MEETINGS WITH HIS CONSTITUENTS .
Ayes :
Nays :
Mot: ,n carried .
Council Memb..'rs Penn , Mccaslin , Moore , Woodward , Jefferson ,
Wilson, Oakley
None
Council Member Jefferson sa id thank you very much . Council Member Moore sai d your words were
appreciated .
Coun cil Member Oakley said before we go any further ... I gave the han d signal for some of the people in the
audience to wait a second ... l understand they were getting read y to le ave when we got off o~to this . For the
record I want them to know that I have 5 grandchildren and 4 grand<Jogs and I baby-sit with my granddogs a~out
as much as I do with my grandkids . So , in no way i ,.,ie or form ... a doi; is man 's best friend , I've believed that
all my life ... I grew up with the dogs ... I made sure my ch il dren ha d dvgs . I am not a dog hater ... just for the
record I wanted every body to know that.
13. City Manage~• Report
City Manager Sears did not have any matters to bring before Council.
14 . City Attorney', Report
(a) City Attorney Brotzman said I do ha ve a request for settlement of Collier v. Marley -290 West
Bellewood . The City has redeemed on this property . We had two loans . We are now the owner of this house .
There was a lawsu it disputing th e ownersh i?, as we ll as an eviction procedure . The two sisters and the title
company have come to terms and they are resolving that issue , as well possession of the personal property in
the house . So , my request Is for a motion to settle this . There is no cost to the City for th is settleme n•.
COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE MOVED , AND COUNCIL MEMBER WILSON SE CONDED, TO SUPPORT THE
SETTLEMENT PROPOSED BY THE CITY ATTORNEY OF COLLIER V. MARLEY -290 WEST
BELLEWOOD .
Mayor Woodward asked If there was any discussion . There was none .
Englewood City Council
June 1, 2009
Page 30
Vote resulta :
Ayes :
Nays :
Motion carried .
15. Adjournment
Council Members Penn , Mccaslin , Moore , Woodward , Jefferson .
Wilson , Oakley
None
MAYOR WOODWARD MOVED TO ADJOURN . The meet ing adjourned at 10 :25 p.m.
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