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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2009-10-19 (Regular) Meeting Minutes• • • 1. Call to Order ENGLEWO OD CITY COUNCIL ENGLEWOOD, ARAPAHOE COUNTY , COLORADO Regular Se11lon October 19, 2009 The regular meeting ,if the Englewood City Council was called lo order by Mayor Woodward at 7:42 p.m. 2 . Invocation The invocation WAS gi•1en by Council Member McCasiin . 3. Pledge of Aila9lance The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Council Member Mcc aslin . 4 . Roll Call Present: Absent: A qucru m was present. Council M~mbers Jefferson, Moore , Penn , Oakley , Mccaslin , Wilson, Woodward None Also present: City Manager Sears City Attorney Brotzman Deputy City Manager Flaherty City Clerk Ellis Deputy City Clerk Bush Director Gryglewicz , Financ.e and Administrative Services Director Wh ite , Community Development Senior Planner Stitt, Community Development Housing Finance Specialist Grimmett , Community Development Director Black , Parks and Recreation Engineering/Capital Project~ Administrator Henderson , Public Works Police Ch ief Vandermee Police Commander C~~.dreay P'lB Investigator Schellpfefler , Police Police Officer Jose Police Officer Read Police Officer Mander 5. Con1lderatlon of Minute■ of Previous Se ■slon (a) COUNCIL MEMBER PENN MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER McCASLIN SECONDED, TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF THE REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF OCTOBER 5, 2009. Mayor Woodward as ked if there were any corrections , add itions or oicdifications . There were none . Vote results : Mot ion carried . Ayes : Nays : Ab stain : Council Membe rs Penn , Mccaslin , Moore , Woodward , Jefferson , Oakley Non e Coun cil Member Wil son Englewood City Council Octobc,• 19 , 2009 Page 2 6. Recognition of Scheduled Public Comment (a) Arapahoe Credit Union Pres idenUCEO Claud ia J. Mil an was present to address Counc il regarding the ir new office at 30 3 East Ham pd en Avenue (Hampden and Grant ) in Englewood . She sa id thank you Mr. Mayo r. Arapahoe Cred it Un ion was chartered in 1937 . In fact , it was started by one of our founding members in his kitchen in his home here in Englewood . We ha ve 11 ,000 members and 56 % of those live In Englewood today . We had the grand opening of our brand new Englewood office last week and I want to than k the Mayor and Councilman Penn fo r coming to ou r grand opening and ribbon cutting . It was a huge success . The membership is very excited . The comments we have heard have all been very pos itive. They are very happy that we have participated in the revital ization of that area of Eng lewood and very proud of our new buil ding . t wanted to address the Council tonight to tell you how ... how ... what a pleasure It was for Arapahoe S::redit Union . Our attorneys , our management team , our architects , des igners , contra~tors , all of the sub- .ontractors , everyone that we worked with throughout the last two years wanted rr a to convey our compl iments , and praise and appreciation to the Bu ilding Department at the City of Englewood . It was an absolute pleasure to work with them . The comp li ments have been so consistent from all of those sources regarding what a pleasure it was to work with Englewood . We take a lot of pride in our new bu il ding and we hope you will too. We designed someth ing that was quite unique and different and hope that it will be a building that for years to come . l~at the City of Englewood will be proud of. I just wanted to than k you ton ight. Severa l , '"ncil Members said thank you . Mayor Woodward said I would just like to make a comment. If you haven 't seen this bu il ding on old Hampden and Grant, which formerly was a bike shop and I think some other things in previous lives , it has gone through dramatic changes . It Is very modem and quite the building . It also has a community room , a small community • room . that it is my understanding that the Cred it Union will make ava ilable for groups within the City or whatever • to ho !d meetings or something like that. It is a real benefit to the commun ity and our citizens . Thank you for coming back to Englewood . (b) Ch ief of Po lice Tom Vandermee introduced the 2010 Impact Team . He said good even ing Your Honor and members of Council , as you recall this is a process that started back in March when we ;"proached Council and requested gui dance from Council on whether or not to pursue a Federal Grant that ~a.J oeen offered and would afford us the opportunity to replace , and put back into place , an impact team that we had in years past, that "'as lost for a number of different reasons , primarily budget reasons . The impact team is a problem-oriented policing un it that , even more today than in years past , is really going to be a cornerstone of th is organ ization . We have put a significant amount of emphasis on code enforcement issues with in the Police Department. I think we are un ique in the metropolitan area in terms of the level of emphas .J that we place on code enforcement , not just with our code enforcement personnel , but with our police officers ... in general , the quality of life kinds of issues that affect all of us . That is a real cornerstone for this organ ization and right at the heart and soul of community policing . We were successfu l in getting the grant. We have ... we are very , very pleased that we rece ived that g;ant and could not have done tha t...could not have neen as successful as we were in getting that yrant. .. without Council 's support It means a lot to me . as the nead of the organizat ion , and it means a lot to the men and women of the Englewood Police Department. The week of September 28 , we began a selection process for the four pos itions that will make up the impact team in 2010 . Sergeant Christian Contos , who could not be here ton ight because he and his fam il y have the H1N1 virus so we kind of asked him not to come. Sergeant Contos . and you have all had experience workin& ..,,,n 'lergeant Contos , and know where he is In terms of commun ity polic ing and problem-solvin g, and how muc11 ~e WO'kS at that. He will be the first line superv isor of the impact team . Commander Gary Condreay , who com 11andt the Neighborhood Services Divis ion , will manage the team . But tonight I wanted for you to get the opport unity to meet the 201 O Englewood Po lice Department Impact Team . They are on patro l, three of the four ar~ patrol officer.;; one is currently assigned to Profess ion al Standards . We are now in the process of replacing or hiring por it ions so that these offic ers can beg in as fu ll-tim e impact office rs, wh ic h will take place sometime right around the first of the • yea r. first to mid-January . They have already received though , as a team , a couple of key ass lgnments .. .they are already dia led in and work ing on these ass ignments . Let me go ahead and introduce these officers . Fifteen officers applied for th is pos ition and that shows how kee nly people In the organ ization are , or wanted to be , a part of this team . All fiftee n of those people , I would have been very pleased with any one of them be ing on th is Englewood City Council October 19, 2009 Page 3 • team . The four that you wi ll meet tonight were the ones that really presented themsel ves and demonstra ted that the y have a very strong appre ci at ion and a very pos itiv e work ing knowledge of code enforcement , community po li cing and problem -sol·,ing . The firs t is Officer Perry Schellpfeffer. Pe rry was hired with the Englewood Poli ce Department in May of 1992 and has served ass ignments in patrol , investigati ons and Professiona l Standards , If you remembe r, Perry was one of the o:igina l impact team members year.; ago . He is currently assigned to Profe ssional Standards , works as a g ·affi ti invest igato r and is the un ifonn face in the Ne ighborhocd Watch Program . Those functions he will car,y with him in his new ass ignment as an impact team officer. Officer Joel Jose was hired by the Englewood Police Department October 23, 2000 . He is a Master Police Officer, field tra ining offi cer, crime scene investigator and a hostage negotiator. Each of those sk il ls obviously will aid in his success on the impact team . Officer Chad Read was hired by the Englewood Police Department on January • 16, 2006 . Prior expe nence was with the Boone County Sheriff office in Illinois. Officer Read founded and operated a non-profi t organ izat ion in Ill inois called 'On Ange l's Wings', wh ich ass isted youths who had lost parents or whose parents had died . Finally , Officer Matt Mander, the newest member of the Pol ice Department , to be on the impact team . He joined the Pol ice Department June 12 , 2007 . Prior experience is a student offic.er for the CSU campus Police Department. And with CSU , he created and implemented the campus police department's bicycle patrol un it. A key featu re of what th is organ ization , what th is particular un it, is going to be . These are the four faces that you 'll see on a continu ing bas is as the 2010 Englewood Police Department Impact Team . Than k yo, 1 Council for your support throughout th is process . Thank you very much . There was applause . Mayor Woodward sa id I just want to say thai for a num ~e; of year.;, since I've been on Council and probably since John 's been here too, th at we have been try ing to get the impact team back . We're trying to figure out ways of do ing that, be ing able to afford it because wh ile It was here before it did make an impact In our community . We fu lly expect the same thing to happen again . While other Police Departments in the metro area and throughout the country are putting police officer.; on furtoughs and layoffs , we have the opportun ity at this time to add three and that's really exciting from my perspective up here and I think John agrees . I think probab ly everybody up here does . The community Is looking forward to it. Thank you . Several Council Member.; sa id thank you . Mayor Woodward said ne xt we have Tavis Hanna but prior to him spea king , I just want to say that everyone , of course , is free to speak ton ight but please understand that we had a public hearing and we will make our dec ision on the ev idence presented at the public hearing with regard to the off leash hours for dogs . Please consider your comments with that formality in mind , (c) Englewood res iden t Tavis Hanna was present to discuss the off-leash issue at Jason Park . He sa id yes , my comments ton ight do not directly address the upcom ing vo te on hours. Bas ically , what I wanted to ta lk ; bout was ... i've seen this issue evol ve over the past six years . All of the steps that have been taken have really helped allev iate the issue but we keep finding ourselves back here , summer after summer. II is almost every June , like clockwork , the co mpla ints start com ing in. Though some of them are unreal istic , many of them are . The fact is that there are dogs on the playground and there is poop on the playground . As a parent, I've seen it. As a dog owner, I've seen it. Lim iting hour.; may not directly address those issues . So what I wou ld like to see happen here is give th e people who are concerned about this issue some peace of mind , because they are righ t: there is a safety issue here and there is a health issue here . Some of their compla ints are legitimate . What I would like to see , whatever your vote is ton ight, ias\, .. stick ... work ... be effect ive . We need to put someth ing different in place to see that happen . We need an insurance policy , if you may , that 's going to see that we are noi hac k here every summer , when the complaints start piling up once those dogs and families start us ing the park . So what my suggesti?n is , is an infonnation system essentially and it starts with a more up- to-date rea li stic and clear set of ru les . The sign of ru les right now is at the bottom of a post. It is about the size of a piece of letter paper. It is usually obscured by a trash can . And the rules are sort of vague , really not clear , they 're not specific enough. So what I would like to is build a bulletin board , like the one I did , and installed at Can ine Corral . On one side I would like to see a map of the park with the rules below it. I can work with Parks & Rec to go through the details of the rules bu t I th ink the map really introduces a system that would help it sin k • in with people how they need to interact with other people in the pa rk . Everyone I've talked to about , hey do you real ize that there is an issue go ing on with the City Counc il right now? They are look ing at limiting hours ... oh no , I had no idea .. ,well , the firs t th ing you can do to help with that is to put your dog on a leash before you take it out of the car ... oh my gosh , I had no Idea . People just don't know and there is a lot of new people com ing in and Englewood City Council Octotler 19 , 2009 Page4 there really Isn 't a good way of relay ing the information lo them . So up •IO •date rules , I think , are cr iti cal but the key where the map comes in is ... I would like to see a li ne drawn on that map of Jason Par k, rough ly where Mr . Oakley outl ined the need for a fence . Craw a line there and have the south panhandle leg of the park cross• hatched ou t: playground , pavil ion , basketball court , south panhandle , bathrooms ... all off limits to dogs . it's simple . ii is easy to enforce because if an officer drives by , they are passed the line . Now, seasonally , start ing in say May or June , when the dog use increases , you can paint or you can draw a chalk line in the park . So ii is a clear identified mark for anyone who goes there , sees the sign , If someone wants to confront them on it, it's the mosl basic way I can think of to drive the point home . This area Is for dogs ; that area is not. And have it far enough away from lhe playground and the pavilion where people can 't allow their dogs lo become habitualed to go into those areas . To me , It seems pretty simple . ii is easy to enforce . It is not an eyesore . ii Is not a permanent fence . It is relatively cheap . ii doesn 't have to be there constantly . If you put it there in June , and lh e complaints drop off, people start respecting it, and the line fades out by say July or August when the rains hit, throw it back in lhere again . Pa int the line a couple of times a year. I would also like to see Code Enforcement come down there more frequently because for lhe most part , this really is an issue of Irresponsible ones , a few, ruining it for the ones who are responsible . This is a good amenity for our community . I'd like to see it preserved but I'd also like to see people who are concerned about their children 's safety and health, have the ir wishes respecled too because I am one of them . This issue is kind of going down the middle of my fam ily and I would like to see it solved permanently so that every June , you are not bombarded with this again and all of your other business is tab led or put on hold . ii has been go ing on for six years . I was just looking at the pictures . Four mayors have dealt with this issue . it's loo many . It's too much time . The amount of money for us to build a bulletin board and a set of rules ... Englewood Unleashed will donate that. On the back side of the bulletin board you could post scheduled sporting events . You could post conditions of the park , if there are too many complaints or too many violations of one sort or another. ii is a way you could directly communicate with the off-leash users of the park . I guess when I really think about it , how I've seen this thing going over the past six years , we have been laking steps back and compromising and sacrificing and meeting in the middle . We are • getting to the point where there Is not much left to compromise on . There really aren 't that many dog off-leash • parks in Englewood . There are far more regular parks , far more schools and playgrounds and soccer fields and schools that we don't have access to . So what I'm hoping is , this basically solves this problem once and for ail. If it doesn 't solve ii, at least it puts in place a system where ii can be managed . I just feel like there 's a little bit of room for us lo live and let live . I apologize to the people who are concerned here because a lot of our dogs have made people feel unsafe . I just would like that lo slop . I don 't thi, :·. they really want to see this many go away but I think that they ... their fear for their children is first and foremost and I think there is room to work in the middle here . Thank you . Mayor Woodward said thank you . 7. Recognition of Unscheduled Public Comment Mayor Woodward said please keep in mind that we held the Pu~i ;c Hearing two weeks ago regarding the hours that have been proposed . (a) Jerry Furman , an Englewood res ident, sa id I have a couple of things I want to say . One thing ... who is our painter on the roads ? The roads around Englewood are icky looking and gross . The other th ing I thoughl of ... for the dog park ... right now lhere Is land ... and lhere are no toys or nothing or playground and we are just letting ii sit there . Why we don 't take that land over at Flood Middle School and use that grass area for the dogs to go play around ... just add a little bit of fence into ii and it could be another dog park for the dogs to play at. And it would save lime in June ... we won't have this problem aga in this year in June If we do that. Because that land is just sitting there waiting for somebody to buy ii and nobody wants to buy that land . If we do that , it is just go ing to save money and problem s and the dogs can have more of a fun area to play in and it would save the City of Englewood more time . Thank you . Mayor Woodward sa id thank you . (b) Marty Mossman , an Englewood resident, said Mayor, Counc il and City leaders , than k you for lett ing me speak . Over the pasl ... weli , I look up there and I see all of you . I see a group of ded icated , honorab le people who give their very best efforts to th is commun ity . No w over the past months I have also • • Englewood City Council October 19, 2009 Page 5 witnessed a very unkind , uncivil effort to discredit and to destroy the work that all of you do . I witnessed the anger . the negative attacks and the untrue accusations rolled at you . It is true that In a community ... hec~. in a family ... you can 't please everyone all the time . And as indiv iduals , we don 't always get our own way . That is pretty true ... right? But it is also true that you , as leaders , have made decisions to the very best of yo,,r ability . You have used a lot of thought. a lot of resources ... a lot of effort has been put into making decisions that would benefit most of the people , most of the time . You know , I think that is pretty admirable . I'm sorry , I have to read part of this because I can't even talk . To then be under constant attack from those who offer nothing to help solve the problems and really don't have apparently much to offer this community , has really been very difficull to watch and to witness . You know it is pretty obvious that there is a lot of hate , anger and negative feelings in our community . And although all of us have rights and all of us have a right to freedom of speech, I think what has not happened , is with those rights and freedoms , there is also an obligation . Now I have not enjoyed the bantering and the battering and the bad feelings , not at all . But I will tell you something that I have taken from all this that I feel very, very secure and good about is I have seen each and every one of you handle yourselves and handle these situations with honor and dignity . That Is very meaningful to me and I want to thank you for that. I am really proud and grateful to live in a community where there are people like all of you . And people like our police and our fire , our code people , our heads of departments , our employees . You know they give of their time . They have foregone raises . They work overtime . They try to be a part of this community . That is good and that makes me proud and grateful to live in this community . And for all of you, I don 't think this is a job to you at all . You dedicate your time , your energy , your money and you give a lot of heart to this community . I just... a thank you doesn't seem enough , but I do want to thank you . I am very proud and grateful to live here . You have all made it so . So , with my raspy voice , I am going to tell you that I don 't think I am alone feeling that way . You are adm ired, respected and very needed here . So, keep on keeping on . And I sincerely do thank each of you for doing what you do and being who you are . Mayor Woodward said thank you . Several Council members said thank you . • There was applause . (c) Chris Hoagland , an Englewood resident, said I have lived in Englewood since 1992 and after Marty 's comments, I guess what I have to say will probably pale by comparison, but I would like to say that I have really had the benefit of a tremendous opportunity, which I think very few communities offer and that Is the extensive volunteer opportunities that citizens have here in Englewood . Just a broad variety of committees that address the various aspects of how the community is going to be run and managed . I have had the opportunity to work on three committees so far and I would like to make a couple of observations about that. Firstly , I think it has been a tremendous opportunity for me to get to find out how my community really works . It has given me the opportunity to meet a lot of the people that are involved in actually making all the stuff that has to happen here, happen . And that would include both our elected officials , as well as the staff people here . I have to say that I am always just in awe of the quality of the talent and the quality of ihe people that Englewood is able to attract. .. work, not only professionally for the City Manager and the various staff positions here , but also the City Council . I have to tell you that I am just so impressed by what you do and I can tell you with an absolute certainty that I don't have the strength of character and the perseverance and just the plain .... l love the community and to be able to put in the effort that you guys do ... and I just felt that on the occasion of John Moore 's retirement and both Jim and Wayne are facing very vigorous challenges in the upcoming election , that I am so grateful for what you do and I just wanted to say than k you so much . You really ... you guys are what makes Englewood the City that I can be so proud of. So thanks a lot. Mayor Woodward said thank you . Several Co uncil members thanred Chris . There was applause . (d) Jean Alspector, a L, '' 1ton resident , said good evening Mayor and City Council members . I am here th is evening to confess and to c,.aar my name . I am the vic ious Englewood Unleashed member accused of • grabb ing and shaking a senior lady from Centennial Park after the last meeting . I would like your permission to step as ide the podium here . Is that okay? Council said sure . Ms . Alspector said t would like you to see my hands , my arms and my maximum reach . I phys ically do not have the ability : , strength to hold a glass of water, yet alone grab someone 's arm and shake them , as I have been accused of doiori by Martha . When I was Englewood City Council October 19 , 2009 Pago 6 to ld of these charges aga inst me , I had to laugh . I am sure you have seen now why I was laugh ing . Because th is is ... you can see what my best vicious wrestl ing movements could poss ibly be with these arms . Than k you very mu ch . Ma yor Woodward sa id thank you . (e) Rick Gill i!, an Englewood res ident , sa id thank you , Cou ncil . II seems like fore ver ago I was one of the ones that presen ted on the day that we had the dog is sue . I was complaining about Bellevio.w Park , not knowing that we had a ,;rew here about Jason Park . And I know that yo u gentlemen , and lady , excuse me , have made your de cis;o ns or at least looke d over the facts . And I know whatever dec ision you have made , I'm sure you have made io the best. My concern Is ho w will you addre ss and ensu re th is commun ity that there will be enforcement of whatever rule you ma ke? It seems like we have had rules , but we have been lacking enforcement. I hope to hear ton ig ht what your plan is for enforcing these rules , because rules without enforcement are ru les that mean nothing . I know fo r one , I would love to see some enforcement , Wayne by yours and my house , and probably by some others tha t you know , people who th ink that our parks are just for the ir dogs to run as wild as possible and they support our dog parks and I hope that we ·ome to some decision . I thought Mr. Furman had an incred ible idea of us ing some land that we are not us ing for . •ything and in a great pa rt of town that's very easily access ible . Brillian t. I hope you folks take a look at that and say well, let's at least help our people who need a place to br ing their dogs and that land is doing absolutely nothing right now . It would be a great way to he lp our community . So , again , enforceme nt is a serious concern of mine because I see what I see where I live and I see some of the situations . My second issue tonight is that I understand that we have Mclellan Reservoir leased out. I would love ... l wish that there was a bac ', ard forth ... al least a yes or a no ... of whether or not that is a fact. Some res idents told me that they rece ived infonnat io n from some of our Councilmen that we are leasing th at property , but most other residents have not rece ived that infonnation . I guess number one , I would ask why only a selected few ... when I went to the Engle wood site I could not fi nd that • information anywhere and I want to know how you decided to make it public . I know it is important to you folks • that when you give out information that everybody receives it... it doesn 't appear that everybod y received that informat ion . Secondly , on that information , it doesn 't tell what ou r expenses are for leasing that property . I understand that we have S10 ,000 .00 a month that we are leas ing it for . I would really like to know what our expenses are . As landlords , and Mr. Mayor you know that we don 't... our things aren 't free ... so if the City has an expe ns e, I would like us just to be upfront wi th the citizens and say yes , we have leased that property ... if it is in fa ct true ... and if ii is leased , what is our expense for that , iusl so that we can ha ve that Informatio n in the spirit of openness and transparency. Thank you very mu ch . Mayor Wood ward sa id thank yo u. Mayor Woodward sai d if an ybo dy wouldn 't min d, I would like to add ress this right now . Ooes an ybody obj ect? Some Counc il members said I think you sho ul d wait. Mayor Woodward sa id okay . I'll wait until la te r. Counc il Member Moore said first of all we will be covering ii under Agenda It em 11 (c) (i) ... and we can co mment under Council's Cho ice . Mayor Woodward said okay . (f) Miguel Drake . an Eng lewoc,d resident , sa id thank you for your time this eveni ng . I guess I am ba ck to ta lk about nega tivi ty . Generally , I reserve my ti me here at this podium for pol ici es . not politics . I find the challe ngers are , no sho ts reserved , so I guess that is how it is going to be . The Council has my apol ogies for that. Seeing as how our challengers have nothing but ne gative things to say about our excellent government , I thought I would take some of the proposed policies in the sa me light. Matt Crabtree proposes open government. Oddly , I ha ve never had a problem figur ing out how or why dec isions are made and any questions I had were answered clearly by the staff and the administration . I have had a few ... I have as ked ... I've re ceive d my answ ers . Th ere ha s never been a problem with tha t. He sugge sted marketi ng certain corridors of bus iness but then complains about budget de cisions . Where is tha t going to co me from? Where :s that money going to co me from, Matt? Don 't get me wrong . II is a good ide a. Just tell me how you are going to pay for it? Which Crabtree are you support ing? The Cra btree that complains that people aren 't be ing he1<d or • the Crabtree that ',ells Council to get on with it and stop wast ing time? Both th ose statements show a serious la ck of un dersta nd ing of the processes used in a republ ic . Finally this no ise about spend ing money devel oping Mclell an la nd with tha t light rail corridor . Th is lease revenue ava il able without increased ta x,,lion for the City to Englewood City Council October 19 , 2009 Page 7 • do IIs job . The money for Iha! developmenl ca me from !he sale of part of that parcel . I know that beca use I as ked my Councilman . It is easy to Monday morning quart erback after attend ing Counc il meet ings . Try putting in 40 hour weeks for the stipend like opponent doe s and tell me how ii go, Seriousl y, follow him around for a week . Good luck Matt . Oh , and what is a cove nant style ordinance? I would like some clarification on that statement. Ooug ... Doug you are a great guy , but I th ink you lack what it takes . I'm sorry . Power comes from prop ert y rights . What power? The power to grow weeds and drive down property values . The power to play loud music. The power not to shovel your walk . These are all things you desire to repeal zoning would give people . How about a rotting car in your front yard ? Do your supporters know th is? Do you really understan d the impact of the th ings you propose? We live in a City , not on a ranch . We have responsibilitie s and our government has the role of enforcing the will of the people . Doug , we pay taxes so we can call someone and have them come by and have yo u cut your weeds . You want to live somewhere without those restrictions , I suggest ru ra l Mex ico or any other third world country . We live by the rule of the law . You 've got to cut your weeds Doug . The only policy you have put forward was on collapsing property values and an ugly city fu ll of torn temporary signs . You oppose the UDC . We 've asked your supporters which of th em voted for it. Have you cons idered that the Council has consistently weakened It to allow our City to mainta in its character and to help business grow along Broadway ? The BID District you mentioned is an example of the City working with business . To say they are not is not a wholly truthful statement. We are at 92% to 97% occupancy ... appearances as ide . That ain't bad in this economy . I am serious about that... tha t is a good dea l. We are doing better than the surrounding areas . And finally I come to Rick Gilli!. Rick has proposed two pol ic y changes that I can find . The first is the el imination of the 50 foot frontage rule allow ing duple xes in R-1 . That makes sense . He is a real estate agent after all and two houses sell for more . I asked the voters if they want a duplex next door. Do they want twice the traffic? I asked them if it really su its our neighborhoods . I've lived in such neighborhoods . I live here now , by choice . Second , he has proposed that boarding houses are a good use for R-1. Tha t's right... I am one of the nasty neighbors he talks about. I live next door to a former board ing house . I stood here and defended my neighborhood . I ask you Rick ... do your neighbors and supporters know • that your proposed change would allow you to put B new people each month into a 4,000 square foot house , next to their children? 96 people each year , Rick . Tell you what. Bring me a handwritten letter from each one of your ne ighbors saying it is a good ide a and I'll bu y you a beer . There is a common thread here . Persona l property rights versus collective rights . Our City is a good place to live , bacause collectively we expect it to be and our City helps us do that. The people of ECOG have noth ing to offer that would make this a better pla ce to live . And the fact that the pol icies would destroy the City that they thought was nice enough to buy a hr .. , in . I've got to wonder if these are real polic ies or a populist agenda , thrown up as a smoke screen . If any of these people wants to debate the ir policies , I will be happy to do so . Bring it. I'll do it in public anytime . I c,,re ~bout my City and I'm willing to defend it. What do I expect out of speaking here? I expect the same thing I got last time I dared to exe rcise my right to petition my governmen t... personal attacks , anonymous slande r and evan perhaps more lawsuits . I'm on my fourth right now . I expect more noise from the anonymous bill of rights and Eye on Englewood ... ECOG 's attac k dog ... but this cowardly attack on a group of people who have mcde th is City what it is , who treal governance as stewardship , who genuinely care about the citizens of Eng lewood ... cannot stand un challenged . These people aren 't running to he lp you . The y are runn ing as a caba l, meeting in private , to ta ke from you what you live here fo r ... an honest , clean City that looks out for its resid ents . Thank you . Have a good evening , Ma yor Wood wa rd sa id thank yo u. There was applaus e. (g ) Rob in Noffsinger, an Eng lewood resident , sa id I came here tonight to specifically than k the City Cou ncil members that are on the board right now. I think you have done a tremendous job over the last two years . Be ings this is an election year , I just wanted to come and say that I was really proud that you have done so much for the City and take a lot of time and effort in all your choices and everything that you have done for us . A lot of time in election years there is a lot of good , but there Is also a lot of bad . And I am very disturbed when the ugly tactics arise . One of the se ugly tactics is spreading untruths in distributed pamphlets around • ne ighborhoods . I have urged voters to seek out the facts of the all the issues they are concerned wi th an<i not be ta ken in by one -si ded views of different cand idates . I wa s als o appalled in read ing over some minute s of th e last election year in the mun icipa lity of Englewood , October 15'" of 20 07 . there was a set of Council meeting minutes that I read through tha t a few ind ividuals that hav e been assoc ialed with th e ECOG group ... the Englewood City Council Octotler 19, 2009 Page 8 Englew ood Ciuzens for Open Governmen t...adm itted the ir part in distribut ion of some these types of ugl y tactic s and untruths in pamphlets that they distr ibuted . I re ally want to urge everyone to read those minutes and to read up on your candidates . Make sure that you have all the facts from both sides and not listen to one-sided cand id ates We need ind ividuals who are ded icated and qualified in leading the citizens and not people who express on ly the ir view or feel that just attend ing some Council meetings gives them enough qualificat ions to represent a City. Thank you all for be ing there for all of us . Mayor Woodward sa id thank you . There was app lau se . (h) Matthew Crabtree , an Englewood residen t. sa id good evening ... well lhat was interesting . Good to know Jim , Wayne and all of you have gotten together your contacts to do a little campa ign ing for everybody here before City Council . So , to answer a few things that have come up ... actually, you know , I will first start off by saying that during the Study Session , a little bit ago , most people in this audience don 't know that there was a serious discuss ion about limiting the public comment durin g the Council meeting here , by stating that , well , we can 't take into consideration anyth ing that wasn 't said during Public Hearing . And that is not a law , that is simply an arbitrary Council policy , I guess . At no point should the Council ever ignore a member of this community and that has happened over the last few years an d that is one of the reasons why I got involved . To answer a few questions here ... how do I market Englewood , how do we market Englewood ... where does that money come from? How about the 2 and a half millio 11 dollars that the City of Englewood has currently spent on marketing a lot of land that isn 't even in the City of En:ilewood . We invest that money back in Englewood , we could eas ily recou p some of the sales tax and make our own community a better place , instead of supporting Highlands Ranch . All righ t... transparency ... transparancy is accessibility to information for free . That does not happen right now ... $255.00 for a copy of the line ,tern budget to know how my tax dollars are being spent. That is not • transparency . Not having access to Char nel 8 in th is City is not transparency . Only having audio recordings • ava il able on-line after the Englewood Citizens for Open Government opened that information up for the public , that is not co nth,clso to transparency . What are covenant style ordinances? Well , actually , you know , this will address Nlo qu•sl•a ns here . There was a flyer that was distributed October 15th of last year and I am absolutely proud of be ing on e of the peop le that helped distribute that flyer . That flyer addressed one of your covenant style ordi n~nces that you wers trying to pass to limit people in this commun ity from parking on the ir own gravel drivew ays .that may ha·1e been there for 100 years . You wantec1 to make them pave their driveway through an ord ina nce that 'las poorly written . Thal is a covenant s~Jle ordinance . That is something that this commun ity is very upset about I have talked to thousands of people over the last few months and everybody ... well ... they don 't like coven ant style ordinances . They don't like code enforcement co,iiing on their property and selective ly picking individuals out of one block . where there is inconsistent use of code enforcement. Well , I th ink I have been relatively posit ive to the public throughout this whole time . Nearly every single City Council meeting for the last two years . I don 't know why these sudden attacks are be ing placed on a local grassroots organizat ion that is concerned with transparency and access iblht> i nrl accountab ility in their government . Not once have 1 ever been negative to the publ ic and not once have I c ,ttacked any membe r of this audience . I al"' working for pos itive cha nge . We have alread y had positivr ,~e as a result of people being involved . I don't think I have ever . ever resorted to ugly tactics ... so ... I apr" .,.te your time and for those listening to the minutes , if you want to see what ECOG is all abou t...englewoodcitizens .org ... and that is a clear definition of what the group stands for. Thank you . Ma yor Woodward said thank you . (i ) Dorothy Haefeli , an Englewood res ident, said I just want to counter what the lady .. I won 't say lady ... the woman that said a few minutes ago . She did follow me out of the last Counci l mee tin g. I don 't know how hig h she can ra ise her arms but I certa inly know that she can ra ise them high enough to grab my arm and pu ll me back . She didn 't throw me to the floor or drag me out of the build ing , any of those th ings . And she said how am I going to tra in my service dogs ? I j ust shook her arm loose and sa id I guess during the hours that • Council sets for you . That was the Inte ract ion between the two of us . So she has attacked me once . She's attacked me twic e. I don 't wan t her near me again . Ma yo r Woodward sa id thank you. • • • Englewood City Council October 19 , 2009 Page 9 fj) Ela ine Hu lts , an Engle wood reside nt , said than k you so mu ch for givi ng me lime Mayo r and Councilmen . It brought to my mind and I did go on tha t webs ite and read some of the minutes of the previo us meeting and one issue that concerns me havi ng been a property owner , and a bu ilder of homes for man y, man y yea rs and be ing a real estate bro ker in the State of Colorado and I've al so held a license in thre e other states . I've been involved in real estate si nce I was 26 and I'm now 76 . I'm an old lad y. I want to tell you somelh ing . I do not see anywhere in our Cons tit ution that it sa ys that any community or an y human being has the right to dictate to any other human being any usage of the ir private property that the y pa id for and they pay taxes on and they ma inta in. I know there are som e commun ities where ... when you go in there , it is almost like the same th ing as going into a condo where you have an assoc iat ion . And these builders build these and with specifi c requirements but this is a complete disclosure before those papers are ever signed , so you are comm itted . Whal I had seen in previous commun ities , and I have lived in several other states ... New Jers ey, New York , Florida , etc ... in order to change a ruling for a community when you are try ing to improve that commun ity , you always have a grand father clause . I see none of that mentioned in any of these bills . I would like to know why you determined that you can go in and dictate to anyone whose purchased maybe a home that they purchased maybe thirty or forty years ago , that they have to change thei r lifestyle . If anyone would care to answer me , I would apprec iate it... a response to that one . Mayor Woodward said thank you . (k) Martha Griego , an Engle wood res ident , sa id I am just here ... l know that you guys had the publ ic hearing two weeks ago when I was here and I did have my say . But I am here because of Englewood Unleashed , of the concerns I ha ve for them . I mean when they grabbed Doroth y and the y dec ided to trip me. I'm lhinki ng how far would the y go ? To me , I don 't understand their kind of think ing . I just hope that we can still all act like adults and after you guys make a decis ion tonight , that there 's no rebuttals or consequences on us who are trying to go about the right wa y of com ing to you guys . To me , the lady that sa ys that she can 't even grab Dorolhy 's arm , then how can she tra in dogs and control them , if she can 't move them ? So tha t is just a question that I have for you guys to think about. So thal's really all I have to say . I hope you gu ys ma ke the righl decis ion and keep the parks for the children and their famil ies . Thank you . Mayor Woodward said thank you . 8. Communications , Proclamations and Appointments There were no commun icati ons , proclamat ions , or appointments . 9. Conaent Agenda (a) Approval of Ord inan ces on First Read ing There were no additional items subm itted for approva l on fi rs t reading . (See Agenda Item 11 .) COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE MOVED , AND COUNCIL MEMBER PENN SECONDED , TO APPROVE CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS 9 (b) (I), (b) Appro val of Ord inances on Second Reading (i ) ORDINANCE NO . 43 , SERIES OF 2009 (COUNCIL BILL NO . 44 , l:HRODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE) AN ORDINANCE AUTHORIZING A "GRANT OF EASEMENT" TO PUBLIC SERVICE COMPAN Y OF COLORADO/XCEL ENERG Y TO INSTALL UNDERGROUND CONDUIT FOR ELECTRICAL SERVIC : AT 1074 WEST DARTMOUTH AVENUE . Vote results : Ayes : Co unc il Memb ers Penn , Mccaslin, Moore, Woodwa rd, Jeffers on , Englewood City Council October 19 , 2009 Page 10 Wilson , Oakley Nays : None Mot ion carried . (c) Resolut ions and Motions There were no add itional resolutions or motions subm itted for approval . (See Age nda Item 11 .) 10. Public Hearing Items No publ ic hearing was scheduled before Council. 11 . Ordinances, Resolution and Motions (a ) Approval of Ordinances on First Reading (i) Senior Planner Stitt presented a recommendation from the Community Development Department to adopt a bill for an ordinance authorizing th,, purchase of ten uoidentified, single-fami 1y, vacant, foreclosed properties located in the City of Englewood to [ulfill the Neiyhborhood Stabilization Program contract. He said tonight staff is requesting that Council approve an ordinance authorizing Community Developme nt staff through the NSP program the ability to purchase ten , as of yet , unidentified , single-family homes in the City to comply with requirements for the NSP program . As you may recall , the City approved a contract with the Colorado Division of Housing , We were awarded 1.25 million dollars for the purchase of single-family homes that are lender owned , foreclosed , or abandoned properties . Our application with the State requires that we purchase those homes at a 1 % discount and that we rehab those homes and sell them to specific individ uals • that are qualified in range of maximum of 120% of area median income . And we have a stipulation that we must • sell three of those homes to families with households that are 50% or less of the area median income . The reason we are requesting the ordinance to purchase ten unidentified homes at this point is simply a matter of timing . The programs that we will be working with to acqu ire these properties have a very short timeframe for closing , often as short as 30 days . Because our ordinance process takes typically 45 to 60 days , it would be impossible to get Council approval on an individual basis , therefore , we are asking for permission to purch ase homes and then we will come back to Council with particular information on each acquisition . There were some questions raised at the Study Session last week con cern ing affordability and the stipu !ation in the program that the State has put together , as well as requirements hased on HUD stan dards , the homes have to be made available to households that make no more than 120% of the area median income . And for purposes of comparison , the area median income is based on the number of individuals in a household and a chart was prepared by HUD that shows the range of in comes from 1 person household to 8 person households . I did some research to find out what the median household income for the City of Englewood is . The most recent data available is from the 2005 through 2007 American Community Survey ... and that number for the City of Englewood is $40 ,685 .00 . That is the median inc o e and that means that half the incomes for households is abo ve that numtor and half is below . So that numb er falls generally just a few thousand dollars above the 50% AMI number for a family of four . The aver,ge househ old size for that same US Census Bureau Survey was 2.01 people so essent ially a 2 person ho usehold , The average family size was 2.84 ind ividuals, rounded up to 3. I did some comparisons iased on the AMI chart tha t was included in the packet last week and calcul3ted how much house individual households would be able to purchase based on those income ranges . At 50% AMI , a 2 or 3 person household would be able to purchase a house that is valued '' anywhere between $81 ,000.00 to $106 ,000.00. If you look at the 120% Aiil number, that house value tha n rises significantly to anywhere from S247 ,000 .00 to $285 ,000.00 . Based on \'lose numbers , it is clear that a significant number of households in the City of Englewood would qualify to purchase at the 80% or lower AMI number in the City of Englewood . So we will be marketing these to those families . It is not likely that individuals at the 120% AMI level would be looking at these homes for a couple of reasons . One , as was pointed out last week , at that income le vel and at th ose r•ices , $247 ,000 to $285 ,000 homes , there is a much broader pool , if you will , of homes available to those indiv iduals , More than likely , the homes that we will be purchasing will be roughly in • the 1,000 to 1,200 to perhaps 1,500 square feet in area and families wh o can afford upward of $220 ,000 .00 home s ma y be looking for larger pro pert ie s. So in a sens e, we will be self-s ele cting fo r th e 80% AMI and lower . F:iglewood City Council October 19, 2009 Page 11 • Mayor Woodward asked if there were any questions for Harold . There were none . COUNCIL MEMBER McCASLIN MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER WILSON SECONDE D, ro APPROVE AGENDA ITEM 11 (a) (I) -COUNCIL BILL NO . 50 . COUNCIL BILL NO . 50 , INTRODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER McCASLIN A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AUTHORIZING THE PURCHASE OF TEN UNIDENTl •IED, Sll-:GLE-FAMILY, VACANT , FORECLOSED PROPERTIES LOCATED IN THE CITY OF ENGLEWOOD, CO l.::l RADO TO r ~~!"ILL THE NEIGHBORHOOD STABILIZATION PROGRAM CONTRACT BETW ~F.N r,1E COLORADO DEPARTMENT OF LOCAL AFFAIRS AND THE CITY OF ENGLEWOOD , COLORADO . Mayor Woodward asked If there was any discuss ion . There was none . Vote reeults : Motion carried . Ayes : Council Members Penn , Mccasli n, Moore , Woodward , Jefferson , Wilson , Oakley Nays : None Several members sa id thank you Harold . (b) Approval of Ord inances on Second Reading COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER JEFFERSON SECONDED, TO APPROVE • AGENDA ITEM 11 (b) (I), (II), (Ill), (Iv), and (v). (i) ORDINANCE NO . 44 , SERIES OF 2009 (COUNCIL Bill. NO . 45 , INTRODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER JEFFERSON) AN ORDINANCE FIXING THE TAX LEVY IN MILLS UPON EACH DOLLAR OF THE ASSESSED VALUATION OF ALL TAXABLE PROPERTY WITHIN THE CITY OF ENGLEWOOD , COLORADO . (ii) ORDINANCE NO . 45, SERIES OF 2009 (COUNCIL BILL NO . 46 , INTRODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER PENN ) AN ORDINANCE ADOPTING THE BUDGET OF THE CITY OF ENGLEWOOD , COLORADO , FOR THE FISCAL YEAR 2010 . (iii) ORDINANCE NO . 46 , SERIES OF 2009 (COUNCIL BILL ,lO. 47 , INTRODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER McCASLIN) AN ORDINANCE APPROPRIATING MONI ES FOR ALL MUNICIPAL puqPOSES IN THE CITY OF ENGLEWOOD , COLORADO, FOR THE FISCAL YEAR BF.GI NNING JANUARY 1, ~010 , AND ENDING DECEMBER 31 , 20 10, CONSTITUTING WHAT IS TERMED THE ANNUAL APPROPRIATION BILL FOR THE FISCAL YEAR 2010 . (iv) OPQINANCE NO . 47. SERIES OF 2009 (COUNCIL BILL NO . 48 , INTRODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER MOO ,<t:) AN ORDINANCE ADOPTING THE BUDGET FOR THE LITTLETON/ENGLEWOOD WASTEWATER • TREATMENT PLANT FOR THE FISCAL YEAR 2010 . (v) ORDINANCE NO . 48 , SERIES OF 2009 (COUNCIL BILL NO . 49 , INTRODUCED BY COUNCIi . MEMBER MOORE ) Englewood City Council October 19 , 2009 Page 12 AN ORDINANCE APPROPRIATING MONIES FOR THE LITTLETON/ENGLEWOOD WASTf:WATE R TREATMENT PLANT PURPOSES IN THE FISCAL YEAR BEGINNING JANUARY 1, 2010, AND ENDING DECEMBER 31, 2010, CONST IT UTING WHAT IS TERMED THE ANNUAL APPROPRIATION f!il ~ FO~ THE FISCAL YEAR 2010 . Mayor Woodward asked if there was any discussion or com 1:1 ents . Mayor Woodward said I do have a comment that I was talking to one of the officials in the Chy of Littlet ~n last week regarding their budget. Their budget comes forward on first reading tomorrow night and :~AY are :uoklng at moving their reserves at , I believe , it was at three and a half to four million dollars to balanc ,, ,, ir bu•iget. They are looking at an Undesignated Reserve Balance of 7 1/2% and that compares to our 10% F<ds~Na Balance that we are looking at in our budget in 2010, wh ich I th ink is very favorable , And of course , none of that Includes TABOR and it certainly doesn 't Include , for us , the LTAR Fund which is a few million dollars , I believe almost 3 millio n dollars , Again I believe Englewood 's budget , we have done in a very responsible manner, I know that staff has worked really hard and long on preparing th is and I would like to give my appreciation to the Directors and Gary for all the work that ha s been put into th is, going back to, I th ink really , of October of last year and really heavily the first and second quarters of this year ... I mean really getting into it , so that is my comment. Mayor Woodward asked if there was anything else . There was noth ing . Vote re ■ults : Ayes : Nays : Motion carried . Council Members Penn , Mccaslin , Moore , Woodward , Jefferson , Wilson , Oakley None (c) Resolutions and Motions (i) Director Gryglewicz presented a recommendation from the Englewood/Mclellan Reservoir Foundation (EMRF) to approve a resolution supporting an agree .,ent between EMRF and TT of Denver for lease of approx imately 12 .9 acres . He said I am Director of Finance and Administrative Serv ices of the City and I am also a meinber of the Eng lewood/Mclellan Reserv,,1r Foundation . t wanted to give you a real quick backgrocnd . In 1999, the Englewood/Mclellan Reservoir Foundation was formed and in the Council Communication there were the seven gu idelines that we were to follow , And the first two really related to the Reservoir itself ma intaining the qual ity of the water and the ava ilability of the water for the Englewoc>d residents . Number two was to protect the ecosystem but number three was to establish and maximize a futu •e long term income stream to, !he benefit of the City. This resolution supports the Englewood/Mcl~llan Reservoir ,=oundation in a long term lease with TT of Denver . You also recall in 2007 , and this mi;ht answr,r some questions regarding the financing and the funding of this ... ln 2007, the EMRF, as we call It, sold approximately 11 acres to the Regional Transportation District for around 3.2 million dolla;s and this is the only sal.a we 've made or contemplated . They did that in lieu of condemnat ion , And those funds were used to repay the City for operating expenses that the EMRF had used wh ile holding the property , It also repa id the Water Fund for monies that were loaned as well as the land value , And then about , I think , about 2.1 million was used to make the property lease-ready and that has been completed . The remainder of those funds , about a half mill ion dollars , was returned to the City 's General Fund to the Long Term Asset Rese,ve . So , all of the funds from the City itse lf have been repaid . The Foundation , all the members are not paid , s~ the only rea l expenses that are ongoing are genera ll y insurance requirements that we need and some legal expenses . Back to the lease ... the maximum term of th is lease is 75 years ... an Initial term of 20 years, a second term of 10 and then nine 5 year terms . The base rent right now is $428,992 .0G per year and there are clauses in the lease to increase it over the term . Construction rent is $17,875.00 a month, pre-development rent is $10,000.00 a month and a security • • deposit of $200,000.00 is required and I be li eve it has been made and is in escrow at th is time , All of the • proceeds from th is lease and all leases on the property will be transferred to the General Fund and the uses of those determ ined by City Council . Mayor Woodwar J r aid Fran k, were th ere any brokerage costs with th is lease to the City ? • Englewood City Council October 19, 2009 Page 13 Olrector Gryglew icz sa id no , we didn 't pay any brokerage costs on th is. Mayor Woodward sa id okay . Mayor Woodw~rd asked if there were any othe r quest ions for Frank . There were none . COUNCIL MEMBER WILSON MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER JEFFERSON SECONDED, TO APPROVE AGENDA ITEM 11 (c) (I) • RESOLUTION NO . 77 , SERIES OF 2009 . RESOLUTI O:-l 'O 77 , SERIES OF 2009 A RESOLUTION SUPPORTING A LEASE AGREEMENT BY THE ENGLEWOOD/MCLELLAN RESERVOIR FOUNDATION (EMRF ) FOR THE LEASE OF A PORTION OF THE MCLELLAN PROPERTY TO TT OF DENVER , INC . Mayor Woodward asked if there was any discussi on . Mayor Woodward said I would just like to say that th is is the first lease of one of the parcels . It has been the discussion of th 2 Mclellan property , or Douglas County or referred to as Highlands Ranch propert ies , have been spoken about by Council ; th is Council and previous Councils , that I have been on for a number of years . With the sale In lieu of condemnat ion of the land to RTD for their Fas Track final station , end of the line stat io n, you gave us the opportunity to get this land development ready with out us ing zny funds right out of the General Fund . In fact, It put half a million dollars into the General Fund and once we have the reimbursement for the grading work that was done for RTD , which has now been billed , I believe it will bring another half million dollars into the L TAR Fund which is a part of the Gene ral Fund . So th is is roughly 13 acres of 100 acres that Councils have consistently said will be for lease . not for sale . They are a long term susta inable reveaue source into this • City that can offset the poss ibility of future ta• increases or keep us with the continued services or additional servi ces ti1at we may have in the future . So when all of these propertie s are leased , over lime, and I know that there are two others right now that are under ne gotiation . I think ii is finally something that we have seen for a long lime that Is coming through . These properties, I believe , were purchased back in 1953 and part of the proceeds went to pay back the remainder of the funds to the Water Board that had gone to purchase them and borrowed from the Water Board and bc :rowed from the General Fund . Mayor Woodward asked if the,e were any other comments . Director Gryg lewicz sa id if I could , I would like to mention that Stu Fonda , Mike Flaherty , Alan White and Rick Kahm . They are the othe r Board members and very instrumental In putt ing many hours to rnke all of ... not only this lease work but do a whole lot of the dirt work out there and get th e utilities and a lot of th ings that have added a tremendous value that down the road will repay the City . Mayor Woodward said and one other item th at I would like to mention is that the lessee . TT of Denver. Inc .. which a Mike Ward Infin ity dealer , currently located in Littleton , signed the lease today so half of that contracl is signed and with this Resolut ion , it gives EMRF the perm ission to go ahead and sign that and it is done . Mayor Wood "lard asked if th ere were any other comments . Counc il Member Jefferson sa 'i it is nice to finally see one of these leases come to fru ition and I hope ii is the first of many to come . Counc il Member Mccaslin sa id now it will give a great return for Eng •ewood but, you know , all the hard work that you guys have don,. I th ink ii will be great. Thank you . Counc il Member Oakley said for the record . I would like to say that we certainly too k Into consideration on • leasing th is land , the tremen dous amount of money it is go ing to bring into the City and the fact that it is far enough away in Do ugl as County , that it doesn 't ruri immed iate vicinity competltion with an y of our bus inesses . Mayo r Woodward asked if there were any other comme nts . There were none . Englewood City Council October 19 , 2009 Page 14 Vote results: Motion carried . Ayes : Co ur,cil Membe rs Penn , Mccaslin , Moore , Woodward , Jefferson , Wilson , Oakley Nays : None (ii) Director Wh ite presented a acom mendat ion from the Com muni ty Devel opm ent Department to approve a resolut io n granting a right to use the mun icipal right-of-way in the South Broadway med ian for lnfonmat ional signs . He sa id good evening Mayor and Council members . As we discussed last weekend at the Study Ses sion, we are propos ing a license agreement to install the directional signs that we have talked about numerous ti mes , on Broadway , to direct motorists that are using Broadway to bus inesses west of Broadway and spec ifi cally the City Center Eng lewood Develo pm ent here . We 're model ing th is program after a sim ilar program the State uses to prov ide touris t infonmat ional signs along the interstate highways . What COOT does is hire vendors to procure , install and ma intain those signs an d under th is license agreement , we will be looking at hiring a vendor to do exactly that: procure , install and mainta in these med ian signs . The signs will be as you have seen ... the designs of the signs as you have seen at previous meetings and we will be looking at a vendor to sol icit bus inesses to have the ir names included on those sign s. The vendor will be able to charge for that serv ice and will retain all of that revenue . There won 't be any sharing with the City . We feel we need to prov ide that incentive to the vendors to be able to implement these signs . The term of the license agreement is ten years . We may cons ider renewing il or tenminating it at that time if we feel the program is not successflJI or has been success ful , it can be renewed . The agreement is revocable should the vendor fail to perfonm under the agreement and then we can look for another vendor to perform the activities that we are looking at under the license agreement or if the signs are detenm in ed to be hazardous for any reason , then we can revoke the license . If th is is approved ton ig ht , we'll be solicitin g vendors to implement the program . And I • anti cipate getting a vendor under the license agreement sometime toward the end of November or early • December th is yea r and get movi ng on the program . We are asking for approval and recommend ing adoption of the resolution tonight before moving forward with th is program . Mayor Woodward asked if the re were any questions for Alan . There were non e. COUNCIL MEMBER McCASLIN MOVED, AN D COUNCIL MEMBER PENN SECONDED , TO APPROVE AGENDA ITEM 11 (c) (II) -RESOLUTION NO . 78, SERIES OF 2009 . qESOLUTION NO . 78 , SERIES OF 2009 ~ q ESOLUTION GRANTING A RIGHT TO USE THE MUNICIPAL RIGHT-OF-WAY IN SOUTH BROADWAY ~ EDIAN . Mayor Woodward asked if there was any discussion . Council Member Mccaslin sa id I Just think th is has be o11 ... we have talked about these directional signs . I th ink this is a great effort for the City to help the businesses in Englewood , to help make the people around Broadway aware of what's go in g on . on the othe r side of Broadway . So I appreciate all of the effof. you guys have done , help ing the businesses in that area . Mayor Woodward sa id I think that th is Is something too tha t these are directional signs on Broadway that will point towa rd Englewood Parkway towa rd the shopp in g area and in discussing this at ACE meetings and with BID peop le , they do not see a conflict with th is, being different kinds of busin es ses . I think our payback , although you sa id we don 't have anything , the pa yb ac k we get are all of those cars ev ery day that go down Broadway that doesn 't know that a Hobby Lobby is over here , a Country Buffet , a Wal-Mart , a Ross , Office Depot and that's going to be the pa yback . And so , I'm glad and look forward to those places having the • opportunity to have more µeople see ing what we have as far as available shopping . Counc il Member Mccaslin said and just to make a comment. In talk ing with some constit uents in the last couple of months , one you ng fa mily did reco gn ize wh at the BID has done north of Hampden but they also have some Englewood City Counc il October 19, 2009 Page 15 • co ncern wilh what is happening sou th of Hampd en . I've voiced my same concerns earlier in the disc us sion of BID, hopin g the same thing follows through . So I would like .o see us continue the development and the upkeep and promoling busines ses also south of Hampden . So that was just a concern brought by a constituent and I just thought I would µass that along as long as Y.e are talk ing about BID and what BID has done . I give all my kudos to BID and what they have done . But I would also lik e to see that south end and also the Federal- Bellevi ew area , all of the business areas , treated in the same manner. Council Member Jefferson said that being said , I'll just comment also that I guess originally I think we all .. I and I lh ink the rest of the Coun ci l, originally , initially , thought this program as being se lf-administered and po tent iall y being a revenue source for us but I certa inly understand the direct ion we are going here and alle v;atin g that operat io ns by outsourcing It out and letting them take the risk of not finding potenti al advert isers or th I0:,,; of fr· .' nature . I'm happy to see it outsourced and hope that ii will derive some additional revenue for th e ,::,1y Mayor Woodward sa'd if there are no further comments , please vote . Vote results : Motion carr ied . Ayes : Council Members Penn, Mccaslin , Moore , Woodward , Jefferson , Wilson , Oakley Nays : None 12 . Gene,~! Dlacusslon (a) Ma yo~s Choice • (i ) Mayor Woodward said I am going to go ahead and bring forward the motion to recommend to the City Manager the setting of spec ific off-leash hours for dogs for Jason, Centennial , Duncan , and the Northwest Greenbo:t pa rks to be effective January 1, 2010. Specifically : March 1 through October 31 -off-leash hours from 6:00 to e :00 am and 7:30 to 11 :00 pm ; anti No,smber 1 through February 28 or 29 - off-leash hours from 6 :00 to 11 :roam and 4:00 to 11 :00 pm . I am looking for a motio n for approval of this motion . !Clerk 's no te : Th is wa s on the Agenda at item 12 (b) (ii).) COUNCIL MEMBER PENN MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER McCASLIN SECONDED THE MOTION TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY MANAGER THE SETTING OF SPECIFIC OFF-LEASH HOURS FOR DOGS FOR JASON , CENTENNIAL , DUNCAN AND THE NORTHWF.ST GREENBELT PARKS TO BE EFFECTIVE JANUARY 1, 2010 . SPECIFICALLY : MARCH 1 THROUGH OCTOBER 31 • OFF-LEASH HOURS FROM 6:00 to 9:00 am •nd 7:3 0 to 11 :00 pm ; AND NOVEMBER 1 THROUGH FEBRUARY 28 OR 29 -OFF-LEASH HOURS FROM 6 :00 to 11 :00 am AND 4 :00 to 11 :00 pm . Mayor Woodward said we are now at discu ss ion and I will open up the floor for Council 's discuss ion . Counc il Member Moore said I will ge : 't started . I fi nd this a, as yo u can im agine for eight years , a very difficult issue . I remember sitting ln this room when I was running for office for the first time and I remember Ruth Steele speaking to us about the leash iss ues back then . I'm a dog owner . You guys have heard me argue vehemently about what my righl s on my private property should be . I unde rsta nd the value of off-leash tra ining and exercise but as I've wrestled with this , I mean. I also understand our neighborhood parks , I just don 't think you should have to 10 into a ne ighborhood park and be worried about the safety ... your safety , your child 's safety ... the dog unleashed is approach ing you . I th ink there is a clear answer ... it is that we need to have appropriate dog parks . I supported ii with Canine Corral. If Canine Corral is not sufficient , I think we need to identify the deficiency for our citizens and move our policies in tha t direction . II is go ing to be very hard with th e land-locked City to find • land for II but I don't believe that there is a sol ution that is going to work and allow Council , future Councils , to move on :mtil we just recogn ize the d1 :;tinction . I will sa y just in five minutes ' time last night ... I was at Jason Park , pulled up to the curb and watched lhree dog s go into the playground . I watched one dog come , get out of the car ... th is great , the owner wat che d ano the r dog , some other person 's dog mess in the park and she Englewood City Council October 19, 2009 Page 16 proceeded lo go pick up after tha t other dog , and I thought !ha t was fantast ic. Then with in a coup le of more minutes , her dog be came the fourth dog I sa w in !h e playground . So , I act ually don '! th ink the ho urs comprom ise is going 10 work , I will support it al the end of the nigh! if that is what ii takes to improve lhe current situat ion bu! I re al ly th ink !he long term answer is that we Ident ify lhe ... we have a larg e consl it11ency Iha! ne eds spa ce for !he dogs an d we need to move to wa rds prov iding appropriate dog facilities bu! I don '! th ink our ne ighborhood parks are !hose fac ili ties , So , !hose are my co mmen ts . Counc il Member Wilson sa id I have some comments !hat I would like to read . Di •1i sion of the multi-use par k where dogs are perm itted lo be off-leash was a progre ssive con1muni ly building concept II pu t Englewood on the map for havi ng a new idea , II set us apart from oth er cities . People ha ve said they ,:ioved to Engl ewood fo r th is very reason . It is about peor ;, co ming together. Englewood Un leashed has com e lo us with a compromise of reas onable hours . With th is comprom ise , eve ryone can use !he park . Famil ies who cannot come in the morn ing will still have time in the even ing . Th e whole issue is not about !he dogs ; ii is a'>out the differences of peop le, II is about En glewood being inclus ive , With all !he other progress ive moves we are pre sently mak ing in th is City , I feel we wi ll be going backwards if we do no ! change the hours to be inclusive . I will be voting on the proposed hours of Englewood Unleashed with the e•ceplion of no dogs on the field with sports . Th is ca, be acco mplished with correct signage . I also th ink !hose are suffic ie nt pre-implementation pel'io ds lo prepa.re signs and post !he information in va rious med ia before the start date of Janua ry 1 ". Bes ides enfcrcemenl , I thin k those who were non-compl iant ... a hefty fine would be rea so nable , Thal is all I ,1ave , Council Member Mccaslin sa id aga in I would like to say , with both sides com ing to us , you know, one sa ying I want to leave ii the way ii is and one sa yi ng , I want ii completely unleas hed . I fel l th e rea son Iha! we are here now is beca use of the comprom ise . Aga in, I am go ing reiterate what I sa ,d in Study Sess ion . I managed an ice arena for five yea rs an d handled !he battles between fig ure skaters and hockey players in ge neral sess ion is a re ally difficult thing and ii is !he same. dec isio n tha t we are mak ing rig ht now . Some of the factors that I'd like to • briPg up are !he number of incidences which we ha ve reported , I mean , even thou gh people sa id they wanted • lo , it has been noted !hat the reports of inc idences ,s very rar e. 1,,oled the misuse and aga in, you know , I am taking everybody 's word for it !hat the re has lo be some rhang ~5 So I think the compro~,,s e in the ho•Jrs is good and I would say that I didn 't want to defer it, you know the best thing for everyone And that :s go ,nq to be impossible because someone is going to be upset. And I am just oing to leave it al that an d hop,iull '.' on this discu ss ion that we can , you know, seven of us can come up with a good consensus . Ma yor Wood ward said Bob , do you have any suggestions for hours or is this your suggestion ? Co ,mcil M,,m~e, Mccaslin said no , I don 't right now because I just want to hear the rest, you know . There are some s:igges,:ons , I th ink , throw n out !here and I would lik e In hear them before I co mmen t on them . Cou ncil Membe r Penn said let me talk about , I've set down al Jason Park many, man y, many days and unfortunatel y, ii seems like every li me I sil do wn !here I miss what is go ing on bu! I've wal ked in the morn ing , I've walked in !he eve ning , I've sat down during the lun ch lime , I've sat on Satu rdays , I've be en there on Sunda ys , unfort una tely I re all y believe Iha ! th e people !hat are conscience do a great job with thei r dogs . I unde rstand !he safely , the need of sa fely for th e youngsters and I th ink Ih a! is why I will support the hours jus t to give the you ng kids and the youngs te rs a lime when th ey can feel safe . John , I do like yo"' idea about look ing al future par ks .,, parks !h at wo uld ma ke our dog owners fe el more willing lo go lo thos e p , ks . I realize there are a few parks , a few pro blems with ou r Canine Corral. And number one w~uld be , I'm sure, just the masses of peop le if we sen! everybody over there so I am going to suppo rt . I don't thin k we can slay ... just blanket and just stay wh ere we are al. I th ink there has to be signage . I th ink !h ere has lo be cont inued enforcement whether Iha ! be more circuit s around the parks to lake a look at that , if they have time, I hate to th ink Iha !. .. it is an important thing .. , but I would think !here would be some times other things Iha! would be mo re im portant for us to go out and enfo rce , But I be lieve that is somet hing that we defin ite ly have lo look in to. And one of my biggest frustrat ion s here on the Council is , somet imes we do talk and talk and talk , bu! th e grea t th ing is that we give everybody !he opportun ity to talk and even !ho ugh so f"e people don 't thing we should , I th ink ii is a great thing lo le! our citize ns talk and we can listen . Coun ci l Member Jeffe rson said I will just go ahead and comment now. I guess just first of all I would just like lo !han k the ge neral public for coming in and voici ng th eir co mmen ts , I kno w it has bee n dr:::"ing on everybody in volv ed in the issue on both sides , both with the time spent and th e emoti onal drainin~ so ... I hope that we can • • Englewood City Council October 19, 2009 Page 17 come to som e sort of res ol ut ion poten lially here lon ight but I just real ized that lhis issue may continue lo drag on . Currenlly , I am not in support of the hours that have been put forward . I have a couple of problems with it , lhe biggesl of which , in my mind , is the enforcement issue . I don 'I th ink we have the resources lo be able to enforce such a pol icy . And , I guess , secondly I bel ieve that it is too restr,ctiv~ for the off-leash community , I am of the op inion that we need off-leash facililies in our community but I think that the ulilily aad the demand that we have seen at the parks demonstrates that we do need those facil ities . I also , however, understand the con cerns of others who believe that off-leash dogs in our regu lar parks represent a safety hazard . And so , in my mind , I think some of those con ce rns are Inherent with mixed -use parks and so , you know , I think I'm sort of in a parallel here with Council Member Moore that I think the only ultimate solution for th is is to pro vide an add itiona l off- leash facility . And , I lhink anyth ing as ide from thal is trul y just going to band-a id the situalion . And I believe that it will be back because , aga in like I sa id, I have problems with the enforcement and I know that ou r community needs these fac ilities , And again , I truly believe that finding another location for these dog uses , whether ii be at Jason Park in a designated area or In a tolally other facility allogether , is the only way lhat you :ruly addre ss both sides ' concerns at th is point. Mayor Woodward said I want to start by thanking everybody thal has come , I think that this is part of the process that we go through listen ing to our cil izens in our commun ity and it takes longer than one would want. I totally realize that. It takes about... taken what , 8 years longer than I wan te d. I want tJ address enforcement. I do somewhat disagree with you , Joe , in thal I don 't th ink we will have any problems with enforcement when dogs are off-leash during off-leash hours . If somebody has one on-leash , that isn 't a problem , If ii is during hours of, while the dogs have to be or supposed lo be on leash , I lhink it becomes very easy for Code Enforcement or Po lice Officers to see that. II becomes really easy . As the non-voling boa rd mamber of the Englewood Soccer Association , as a Council liaison or a City liaison from the Soccer Association , last nighl I was talking to one of the board members regarding someth ing entirely different and two issues came up at Jason Park . One was , totally non-dog related and lhe other one was related to a dog , but in both incidences the • police were lhere , in the parking lot. And In both inc idences , the police responded and with the issue of the dog , it had happened on the south end of the park , there was a licket issued . And I don 't th ink this was Englewood Unleashed people . Based on what I've heard , I think it was one of those other percentage type pe1ple . But in go ing back where these hours came from , some people , just to clear up some confusion , these dio ,,ot come from Parks and Recreation Comm ission. All that came from Parks and Recreation Comm ission was the recommendation that Cily Council work it out. And as I look at these , I believe , like you had mentioned, I think I heard over here that they are somewhat restrictive . I go back to Study Session and I bel ieve that Iha winter hours are 100% off-leashed , During winter hours , in my mind , seems to be acceptable . I know it has been brought up at Centennial Park regard ing sledd ing of children and in my experience al Hosanna Park , and as a child being around dogs that where people were sledding , ii is usually the owner's dog and they are chasing or pla ying with lhe sledder who is the ir owner or part of the ir family or whatever. I don 'I see , have not experienced or seen , an y aggress ive behavior with children sledd ing and lhat includes my own go ing back a long , long time ago .. I mean what seems like a long time ag o. The early morn ing hours , to me , are probably ... I don 't th ink , from what I hear, 9 am , there is a perioo of tirr ~ and I think Dorothy and I have communicated about certain limes . 10 am in July , late June and August •:omes a time for some body like Dorothy and Emme that go on - leash at Cenlenn ial and wal k the ir dogs where it could be warm during those periods . It could be hot. But I also find that during a part of that time at Jason Park , and I'm su re at Cenlenn ial Park , that lhere are people from th e immediate nei ghborhood and at the Parks and Recrea tion Comm iss ion , we did hear from people In the immed iate ne ighborhood that util ized that park for ... it sounded almost like a men 's club or a social gathering , lik e people used to meet in a coffee shop in lhe morn ing for coffee , well these people were meet ing at Jason Park and runn ing the ir dogs . I, too , was down at Jason Park yesterday in Iha morn ing and al noon . In the morning , lhere was one person and one child in lhe playground and there were a number of dog s out play ing bul I never saw an 1• dcgs go into the playground 01 leave ki nd of thal area and I saw very respons ib le people with dogs , Li ke Randy , I'v e been there at numerous times and I have seen , like John did , al times when dogs hav e gone inlo the shelter and I have seen when dogs have gone into the playground ... not very often and the ma in case that I'm th ink ing about it, was small dogs but I know other Counc il members have experienced bigger dogs and certa inly people have experien ced the ir food being stolen . So , I do feel that there is a lime limit that is • defin itely needed . 7:30 at night. I bel ieve , is probably too late to start. I think there is a darkness issue . I th ink there rs , you know , in lhe middle of the summe r again , there is that lighl is sue when you have plenty of light but most of the time from mid-Aug ust on , you don 't have th e light. So th ese hours, in any evenl, I hope we get into discussi on s on them an d come to a consensus , vot e on it an d can mov e on . I agree with John and Joe tha t we Englewood City Council October 19 , 2009 Page 18 do need add itional dog area . We know lhat 25 % of the people of Englewood own dogs , which prob oJl1 9,ve s somew here in the ne ighborhood of a minimum of 8,000 dogs in our City . So with that and hav ing been on the dog task forr : that came up with Canine Corral that ultimately , initially Centennial Park , the back side and on ly to find out that ,twas an area that would have cost. I think millions poss ibly , to get the clay capped , to get the environmental and the Brownfield stuff addressed . I don 't know where that land is because we really looked for that land as something the City owned and we couldn 't find it. Bui I do support the idea . I don 't know how we gel there . And I know we don 't get there right now. With that , I will give it lo Wayne . Council Member Oakley said yeah , I wanted to make sure that I told the guy in the aud ience that I could make a couple of general statements a11d I will hold it to that. After the dog park was completed , I believe that I was the first one on Council to propose that Jason go back to an on -l eash park and that has been ... l don 't know how many years ago ... a, least two and maybe more than that. Since that time we have heard a lot of testimony and heard from a lot ut ;,,·.Jple . I've got to know a lot of people better and I simply come to the conclu,,n that since I was elected to Council , I've always tr ied to represent all the citizens of Englewood and it pains mt when I can't. And this is one issue that I believe a compromise is the only way that I could feel good about that. Otherwise , I'm going to feel , in my heart, that I was not representing everybody . So I will support some kind of hours compromised and I'm open to what the rest of you have to say . Mayor Woodward said okay , I think everybody has spoken unless anybody has something to add . Does somebody want to aiscuss hours? 11...Joe I know that , you know, when we brought this foiward you wanted to , two weeks ago , four weeks ago , you wanted to ma ke a proposal to change those right then and did you have something else in mind? • Council Member Jefferson said you know , aga in, I've got to reiterate that the hours are not my personal choice of have to handle the situation . So , you know, I guess I'd be happy to delve into that conversation if everyone else is conv inced tha t, that is the solution . I guess , you know , I guess I perhaps don 't see it quite as difficult to • find a new spo t. You know, even the recommendation that we heard orig inally from Council Member Oakley and Mr . Hanna ton ight , in my mind , those types of solutions make more sense actually to me than the hours . And so , I don 't know that I have a recommendation for us to start. I guess my only comment would be I'm not support ive of what is there . The only way I would become supportive of some sort of hours is If it Included more off-leash hours . But aga in, I think , that would be some sort of statement from us say ing that that mix ed-used is working there . So in my mind , the way I sort of frame the issue is that is the first question . Is mixed-use something that can work in ou r commun ity? If it is , then perhaps the status quc is okay with just some stepped up enforcement and signage , If it isn 't. then we need to find another facility , you know . In my mind , that Is really how it comes down . Really , is mixed-use the right thing for our commun ity? And I would love to hear some feedback on that. Because I think if you are suppo ru ng hours , you have got to say that mix ed-use in some ways works and you know what I mean , otheiwise , you know, it is not an attempt in my mind to really tru ly separate out the uses . It is really just a band aid to get both sides to agree to some line . What do you guys th ink? Council Membe r Oakley sai d I would like to comment about so•.1ething that John and Joe both commented on about another facility . Maybe I have been hearing this wrong but since this discuss ion has sta rt ed , I have heard that a dog park is a dog r Jrk and off•leash park is an off•leash park and that the peop le that didn 't want to use the dog park would no t use two dog par ks, They still would want to go to an off-leash regular park so I'm not sure that that would solve th e problem . Counc il Mem be r Jefferson sa id if I could respond . I think there are several different reasons why Can ine Corra l is not nearly as popular, I think , in usage as some of our other parks . Canine Corral has no green orass and to my knowledge , it never had green grass . You know , a lot of folks would have told me when I bring this up that the dogs killed the grass and in my opinion , that is not the case . You know in being over there , you got very , it is a very arid area . It is like straw -like type grassed area . Council Member Wil son sa id there is no irrigation . Mr . Jefferson sa id exactly , there is no irrigation so , you know , there was no possibility for grass to remain there • and so , in my min d, the two necessities of a dog park are green grass and a fence . And you know what I mean , and so I gen erally , in my mind , think that dog parks don 't need to be expensive ... these th ings don 't need to be expensive . You pick an area with some green grass and you fence it off and you des ign ate tha t as the area . So in my mind , you know , I th ink that it could potentially be a solution in the very near term because I don 't th ink • • • Englewood City Council October 19, 2009 Page 19 ii is somsthi ng that is terribly diff icult that doe sn't have to cost a terrible amount of money . The Can ine Corral ro~,: lr'I rn:· m:l"ld , was an embarrassing amount to fund . Council Mem ber Wilson said do yo u kno w how much? Mr. Jefferson said several hundred thousand or a couple hundred thou sand from what I understa nd ... not counting the irrigat ion system . Ms . Wilson sa id well because ... and I can give you the breakdown for ... The total cost of th e Can ine Corral was $123 ,295 .00 . Th al fund ing came from : $96 ,533 came from Open Spa ce, $1 ,975 came from the Water Department, and $12 ,787 came from the Cap it al General Fund . There Is approx imately $50 ,000 done on water stud ies ... one was for flood plain and one was how the water ... if there would be any problem with the water . the dogs being so close to it and so that is how that breaks down , It wasn't $200 ,000 .00 . Coun cil Member Jefferson said I really apprec iate you lnter,ecting that because I had heard a number that was higher than a hund red but I'm st ill hearing , wha t...if you include the fifty-one se venty-three someth ing .. lhat's $173,000 .00 , is that correct? Council Member Wil son said no , $123 ,295 . Council Member Jefferson said okay , tha t include s the $50 ,000 for the waler? Council Member WIison sa id that Includes ii all . Counc il Membe r Jefferson said in my mind the $123 ,295 is still an embarrass ing number to the City . Again , you know ... Counc il Member Wilson sa id but that is due to lack of.,, you know be ing on that Task Force , that wa s the only property we could find and due to the fact that it was near water and it was In the flood plain, there were certain studies that had to be done . Now I don 't necessarily believe that has to be done everywhere but due to th is property , and bel ieve me be in g on that Task Force , John Tomasso and I combed the area . So it makes it very hard and that was one place th at had trees and one place that was kind of not In the middle of nowhere and it also had parki ng . You know, ii had some of the features that you need with a dog park . Yes , ii would be lovely to have another one . The other problem is, you know, where ? Council Member Jefferson sa id agreed and I apprec iate that and my point really isn't to bash on the previous committee , I know they had the best intent ions in mind and probably thought that Canine Corral was going to be a wonderful facility that the community loves , So , I have no doubt about that. I am just suggesting that since we have had that experience , tr.at we can pick an area . And you know , in my mind , you know like I said, the original idea given us by Counr,i l Member Oakley , th e comments tonight from Mr. Hanna , perhaps eve n the southeast area of Jason Parl : could be designated u off- leash . That way and potentially fenced off because then you could at least have a des ignated area al the same location with mark ing that answers all those concerns . Jason was selected because it had all of those amenrties , such as park ing and other th ings . You know , so , perhaps the solution is right there . In my mind , those are more attractive solutions than what we are trying to do here . Ma yor Woodward sa id the southeast area of Jason was explored as an area to fence in but aga in park ing is separated from that area . It does not...1I was not co nduc ive . You don 't want to gel into a situatio n with people parking on the street like Rotolo or something like that. That was one of the problems and that there were children's th ings , activ iti es go in g on there . So , I mean , that was loo ked at and ... Council Member Jefferson sa id and I certainly understand those concerns ... Mayor Woodward said okay , well let me finish the n. One of the th ings thal ... l hear wh at you are saying and I th ink you have stated the case but I think , coming ba ck to the po int of tryin g to get to , without go ing totall y to your argument to see if th ere are people with other suggesti ons for hours because right now during th is economy there is no t go ing to be another off-le ash park in Englewood during the calendar year 2010 . Co uncil Member Jeffe rson said I think tha t is a bit of a res tricted view on what we are doing here , Aga in , I re iterate , I don 't th ink th is needs to be ex pensiv e. You know, aga in I'll throw out there that...l've thrown cut a coup le of options and I don 't th ink they are go ing to be totally cost proh ibitive . I th ink Engle wc '>d Unl eashed has stepped up and sa id th•I they would pay half of any fencing solut ion that we did come forward w11 :: and so in my mind , tha t's a solu ti on tnat is under $10 ,000 .00 in cost to the City that I think you can manage for that number. Mayor Woodward said see and I disagree . Aga in having been on that Task Force with citizens , with Parks and Rec reation personnel , those are not the numbers and that was not the criteria that was required coming out of na tio nal surveys and Parks and Re creati on Boards and stuff. Englewood City Council October 19, 2009 Page 20 Counc il Me mber Jefferson said I apprec iate your opinion and I guess I just respectfully disagree . I jusl th ink it could be handled fo r a relatively inexpensive amount and you know , I don 't think we need to over complicate the issue . Like I said , if it has got green grass . you got parking . you got a fence and you are ready to roll . Council Member Moore said Joe , for the sake of moving us along , you and I both have views that I don 't :~ink are going to end up being the final view tonight. I think there Is a consensus . Joe has asked a good question about whether or not we believe mixed-use works . I think I heard enough Council support for hours that I th ink we probably should focus on those but if that 's ... if the five of you are look ing for some version of th e hours , then I would suggest that we focus there , if that is acceptable . Council Member Jefferson said I guess what I would just like to hear before I'm happy to move to that point is just to hear from the consensus of the Council that hours is the solution that you 're only willing to look at tonight because otherwise , I'm going to try to convince you to do something different. And so, you know. I would love to hear from other Council people saying that they are locked into the hours idea and I would be happy to contribute to that conversation . Council Member Penn said I am ready to do the hours . And what I suggest to you Joe , is to go out. do the research , find the place, get us some numbers and bring it back to us and we would be more than willing to listen to it but we don't have time for that right now . We have been waiting too long for this . We reed to make a decision and get this thing done and then as you co ntinue and go down your path and find these places , and get some cost figures , bring It back to the Council. I think that would be a great Idea . Council Member Jefferson said well I think , you know , it would be difficult for me . I thin k you know where I stand to come across as very objective on the Issue , so my suggestion is if everyone is serious about cons ide rin g another location is to commiss ion somebody or commission a group to find that new location because, you • know , I've thrown out a couple of ideas already . I don't know that I'm going to have much more beyond that and • like I said , I would like it 1o come from an objective source ... an objective source as possible rather than from just me unilaterally . Council Member Oa kley said I guess I have one question and then we can move on. If the second park wos built , would it be with the understanding that all the other off-leash parks would go away? Council Momber Jefferson said yeah . I guess that is what I'm suggesting in lieu of restricting these other parks . Provide another facility and that way you have two totally separate uses and the people who are there to , you know, be with their families without the dogs ca n do that and If you would ~a there to be there with their d:,gs , they can do that. Council Member Oakley said as a proposa l I'm hearing you , but as a procedure of us cons ide ring what was at the public hearing , I don 't remember that being discussed at the publ ic hearing in any great detail. Counc il Member Jefferson said agreed and I think that goes back to wh y I wanted to open up to what the subject of that publ ic hearing was because I felt there is, you know. that it just, it was just a piece of the pie that could be the solut ion and so that Is why I really wanted to open it up . You know . I don 't want to , you know, I don 't want the Cc•,ncil to feel really co ,n ered into mak ing a de cisio n on these hours today if we feel like there are other solutions out there that could be better lo nger term solutions for the commun ity. Council Member Wilson said well I guess my concern is that I am not sure that is what the community wants . You know . I mean I am not sure everyone would want all the other parks closed ... the off-leash pa rks, so ... I guess , you know ... Council Member Jefferson sa id I agree . I mean , you kn ow. I'd say if it was up to me , I actually thin k the mixed - use works in our parks . If it were up to me , I'd keep with the status quo and up the enforcement and up the signa9e and let people know but I realize the ... I sympathize with the other side . I un1erstand the arguments • and I understand that a fa ir amount of people believe that mixed-use has inherent problems and I recognize that. There are some inherent problems and it is restrictive for a certain portion of the population . I apologize , I just kind of went on a tangenl , didn 't I? • Englewood City Council Octo~or 19, 2009 Pao~ '1 Coun ci' Mem ber Wilson sa id we ll I'm just say ing that I think , you know , if you wan t... I mean I don 't say that ii is a bad Id O :>ut I th ink to dr, lhis ;;, aperly maybe and beyond this meeting and not , you know , to recess this declsio, :·<>re would be to have another task force that would look for , you know , another park and funding and all th e me : ,fit. But I guess my understanding was tonight , we were supposed to dec ide on hours and that is wt .at peo~•~ talked lo and about them listening to the public hearing and we don't have that other option . Council Me mber Jefferson said and I guess I w~uld say that I think the majority of the constituents are against wh c,t ls recommended here . Counc il Member Wilson said well as you heard what I had to say , I wasn't agreeing with .. Mayer Woodward sa id Bo b had something he wanted to say . Council Member Mccaslin sa id well you kn ow I bel ieve that , you know, for the first two ye ars I was on Council th is came up and then ii went away and now its back but we had a group, the Englewood Unleashed , who has done , I th in k very posit ive , a very pos itive role in keep ing Jason Park clean and helping to patrol the ir own, helping patrol others and it's not even their job . So before we discuss hours , I would like to go over, or at leas t have it on public record, what the ir , from their survey that they did, what their recommendation of hours were because you know if tl ,ey come every other Sunday ... they have a picnic and brunch , they clean up the whole park and they are dedicated . When they found out there was a problem here , they really started address ing issues and instea d of saying , you know, negative , negative . They really wanted to find a solution and that is kind of where we are at now. And I would like to ... just for publ ic record , you know , go back ovur the ir recommend a•tions just so we have that for discussion . Other Council members agreed . • Ma yor Woodward said he ·strongly believes th al even this option i$ !co restricter' To keep it simple , we would amend this to 6 am to 11 am and 6 pm to 11 pm seven days a w3ek during Apr' :hrough September 30 , then winter would be October 1 to March 31 as 100% off-leash since we are often the ualy park users during the • season ." Council Member Mccaslin said I just wanted that for the record so that , that is concerning our discuss ion of hours because I know that we had the hours in front of u; but I . Council Member Jefferson sa id in my mind that might be a more prudent start ing place if we , in fact , are going to the hour route . Council Member Moore sa id so let's finis h answering that question . Randy said yes , we will talk about hours . Bob said yes , we wil l talk about t1ours . Wayne sa id yes and Jill said yes . He said at least for tonight it is going to be an hour's solut ion . Let's just kind of at least getting two ends into the spectrum . We 've got the hours that were on the table , we 've got Englewood Unleashed alternatives . Does anyone care to see if there is grav itation to ward .. Council Mem ber Jefferson said I will throw out that I think the better starting po int out , if we had to pick ·:he two and start bartering from there , I truly believe that the Englewood Unleashed represent a much more re1,sonable potential to whe re I think we are going to end up . I don 't know what everybody else feels . Counc il Member Mccaslin said I agree wi th that. I mean it is a starting point and ... Council Mem ber Jefferson said I just th ink it is a more reasonab le starti11g point that we are going to have to amend a little bit less , is all chat I'm trying to say . Mayor Woodward said I agree with two exceptions . I would offe r up that 11 am come back to 1 O am and again address ing some of the heat issues of the summer and that I am aga in concerned for Parks and Recreation and the stuff that is go ing on there during the month of March and th e month of Octobe r. October is a heav ily , the first part of October especially , is a hea vi ly used month for the park users because the weather is still very Englewood City Council October 19, 2009 Page 22 decent and March is also . So I mean , March 15 or Marc h 16 to October , someth ing in between . I'll j ust throw that out there . Council Member Jefferson said I'm sorry , can you say that one more time . Okay , so you are saying 6 to 10 is what you are propos ing , co rrect? He sa id we are starting with the Eng lewood Unleashed recommendations and you are recommending two c11 anges to that. One is the summer time hours pu lle d back from 6 to 10 rather than 11 , correct? Mayor Woodward said correct. Co uncil Member Jefferson sa id and the second one is amending the winter hours to ... Mayor Woodward sa id mid-October or goinp back to November 1, I mean I feel flexible on that. October 1 through March 31 seems too late for me . Co uncil Member Jefferson sa id okay , so at least October 15 or Novembe r. Okay . Thank you . Council Member Oakley said I would like to comment on winter month ., For right now it's October 19~, so we 're not speculating , we actually know wn at the weather is like , so I truly be I,,ve that October is not a winier month per se when it comes to people us,ng the parks and I probably feel th e .ame way about March . So I thoug ht that November through February was more legitimate as far as winter months are concerned . Jim was offe ring a 15 day compromise to that so maybe between those two we can work something out. Council Member Jefferson said so are you suggest ing that you would like at least the end of October to potentially November 1 as well . Council Member Oakley sa id I was going with what we had proposed ... November through February . Counc il Membar Jefferson said sure , okay Same thing on the other side?. Counc il Member Penn sa id I agree with Wayne on that. I like the March 1 through October 31 and then winter months keep them November through February . I'm not so sure Iha' I want to go off-leash but I can be talked into it , I guess ... during the winter months . I will still listen . Counc il Member Mccaslin said I mean I like October 15 to March 15. In talki ng to you , I th ink about soccer because you are the soccer guru and . you know , you 've been in Englewood Soccer for years . How many years have you done soccer? Mayor Woodward sa id I don 't have any idea . Council Member Mccaslin sa id guess . ten? Mayor Woodward said twenty ... probably 18. Council Member Mccaslin said 18 years so I'm go ing to ask since I don 't sit out there . you know . every day , are these , ls October 15, when is soccer actually played? Mayor Woodward said soccer this year ends October 31 . The last games are October 31 . If there have been rain days , last weekend there were some rain days , there will be makeup games . They could go into the next week or they could be made up on Sunday . Council Member Penn sa id they started on Sunday because I was there on Sunday . Mayor Woodward sa id they could be made up during the week . Council Member Mccaslin said and then when do they ... I mean at the beginning of the year, did you say they start in March , middle of March? Mayor Woodward said yeah. typically the games start right around the third wee k in March and practices start 2 or 3 weeks pr ior to that , depend ing on whether you are talking recreational er competitive and well I'll just keep ii with recreationa l because competitive could be go ing all year round . Council Member Mccaslin said so you are asking for ... l lik e the October 15 to March 15 but if we have to I'll go from November to the end of February . Bui I also want to look at the hours because I think they are a little restrictive lo the dogs . I'd like to see th em extended a little bit than what we proposed here . I'd like to see them go from , you know, 6 to 11 in the morning and then 6 lo 11 at night. Cocncil Member Moore said I already had Joe and Bob down for supporting Englewood Unleashed hours so we keep getti ng a pulse ... Co un ci l Member Wilson sa id and Jill . Counc il Member Moore added and Jill . Council Member Penn sa id I will go with the March through October but I'm not convinced on the winter yet. Coun •;il Member Moore sa id on the hours? Council Member Penn sa id righ t. Council Member Moore sa id Wa ~ne , do you care to offer ? Council Member Oakle y said I'm st ill November through February on the winter hours . I guess as a comprom ise , if we tie th at down , th, , would listen to off-leash during tho se four IT'Onths . • • • • • Englewood City Council October 19, 2009 Page 23 Coun cil Member Moore sa id a!ri ght, do you mind shar ing ho w you fee l about th e summer hours , whet her or no t you like lhe original proposa l er .... ? Coun ci l Member Oakle y suid the even ing hours I ha ve a concern wi th becaus e I thin k if you would as k the Parks 'Je~ 'rlment when peo ple ren t the shelter house that wo uld be right in the middle . 6 o'r.lock would be right in the middle when th ey are serving their meal. Counc il Member Mccaslin sa id so you are say ing later hours in the even ing ? Council Membe r Oakl ey sa id in the summer time , yes , because , thi nk about it Bob , if you are in a group that rents a shelter, that is when you are going to be there . You are going lo be there at 5 to whatever , you know . And if you move it back to 6 then that means that the food is going to be right out the re if you could tempt the dogs . Council Member Jefferson sa id I will just throw out there that sorr,e people may want to have dog friendly events and you know, on the applicat ion , we can let people know , hey the off-leash hours begin at 6 and so at least they are on not ice and you know , if they don't like that then , yo:1 know , then maybe they can choose a different facility . Council Memrer Oakley said I agree with that and one of the other th ings that was brought to my attention wa s that those people come there with beth children 3nd dogs and let th e children play in the playground and the ir dogs run , so I realize there is that aspect of it too . Council Member Jefferson said but I know there could be an issue for some people using that so I guess I wi ll throw out maybe for staff that , you know , if we do move to this , this needs to be disclose d so people who are renting on those type of facilities and things of that nature , just... Council Member Penn said Jim , to add to the winter hours , when you were !alking to the people , what time do they normally go out and walk without, you know, the ones that did not have dogs? What were their normal walking hours during the winter? Mayor Woodward said the on•s who did not have dogs? Council Member Penn said right. Mayor Woodward said I am not aware of anybody . I wasn't talking to people about walking without dogs . They are walking with dogs around the perimeter. Coun cil Member Penn said well but I thought we had some people over at Center.nial that walked without dogs . Mayor Woodward said they walk with leash . Council Member Penn sal~ 1 d~n 't th ink they walked with dogs at all . Mayor Woodward said I think Dorothy and Emme for example util ize a leash only . Cou .,cil Member Penn said I didn ', think they walked dogs ... I didn 't th ink they had dogs . Council Member Wilson said if he needs a copy of the minutes ... Council Member Oakley said I remember them saying that they had to pick their dogs up to feel safe . Council Member Jefferson sa id bu t I thin k we can rest assured tnat there a,~ r,11 types of users . I mean I think we can rest assured that there are certa inly people walking around there , you know , recreationall l' without a dog . Council Member Mccaslin sa id absolutel y. Coun ci l Member Oa kley sa id yes , there are so ma ny vari ables ... Council Member Jefferson said ex0,••1. you got to assume that there are certa inly people walk ing without a dog . Mayor Woodward sa id you kn ow, I :e ss what , on the weekend hours in the winter , what I wan ted to come bac k to ... was the reason I was going alo 1,~ with it was because of the Study Sess ion , it was what I suggested but at least I want to make sure that there are some dayl ight hours there for , you know , for off-leash use . So , and I don't want to send tff-leash people lr to the coldest tim ,, of the day or evening and certainly mornings are the coldest time of any oay . Su ... Council Member McCa~l in sa id are you tal king hours in the winter? Mayor Woodward sa id yes . Council Membe r Mccaslin sa id I thought they had no hours . Counc il Member Penn sa id Wa "ne and I need to be convin ced . Engluwood City Council October 19, 2009 Page 24 Counci l Member Moore said we got three connected issues to resolve , so I'm trying to figure out how do we get to a consensus but we got the winter hours , the winter months and then the summer hours , My feel ing is may be the best item known is bound to the answer s when we see the end solution . Ma ybe we can really hone In on the winter hours issue , so table the months for a second , It we find the right months , how many are in support of just it is unleashed during whatever those winter months are , And again no one is go ing to be bound by th is. So I see three clearly ... Mayor Woodward sa id I'm sorry , will you post the quest ion aga in? Coun cil Member Moore sa id ass•;ming we can reac h agreement on the winter months , how many are in support of unleashed in the winter, p,,riod? Counci l Member Oakley said I had stated that I woul d do it as a compromise if we establ ished the winter months as be ing Novembe r to .... • Council Member Moore sa id so let's put you as a tenta tive and then JIii , Joe , Bob are ail ... and Jim. Okay , so let's take that as a tentative agreement. .. so no hours for the winter , Now let's muve on to winter months , ce,ta inly ... There is a ... to bring on Randy and Wa yne , I'm hearing that \here needs to be a constrain ing of that time frame to be November through February . Certa inly again not that it matters In the numbers in this case , but I think !hat makes sense , If we are going to go with no leash at all durinr, the wlnter ... hey it was 80 degrees yesterd ay , I'm sorry but that park was full . So saying that , you know , leav ing October as a winter month as opposed to summer, I don't th ink cuts it myself. But let's hear .. , let me just throw it this way , .. ho w many are in support of assuming wit h no leashed hou rs in the winter , how many can be supportive of the winter months being November through February? And Wayne , I'm going to ta r.e you as the first agreement. Randy can you come along with that? Randy said yep . Council Member Moore said okay , how do the rest of you feel , too oarrow? Council Member Mccaslin sa id no , I would still like to see October 15th through March 15th. Mayor Wood"' ord said well , I would go with the 15th too as a comproi,ise. I would go wi th November 1 but I could go with the 15th as a compromise to that. Council Member Jefferson said I would be more supportive of Englewood • Unleashed but I can live with it if that is where the majority is I certainly wouldn 't kick and scream . I can live with the 15th compromise that we discussed if we , in fact, have a majority who are concerned about the winter hours because I know we got us three supportive full , wholly with Englewood Unleashed , so . He sa id no , no , no because Jim is not wholly supportive of the entire policy , He was just supportive of the ·winter hours but Jim also wants to move the winter duration , I guess I will say , the winter sea son . And so what I heard was .ill , me and Bob lik e the Englewood Unleashed , so if we got the majority say ing that they want to , you know , mess around with those I'm happy to potentiall y .. Council Member Moore said I'm in support of the November through February , so Wayne , Randy and I were all support ive of more narrowing . Council Mem ber Wil son sa id I guess ... Mayr.r Woodward sa id Randy , you , Wayn e, okay In November was when I sa id but I could live with October, Counc il Member Moo re said oh , you prefer Novembe r? Mayor Woodward said November would ... Council Membe r Moore sa id oka y, th en I th ink that moved us over ... we got that. Okay aga in we can come ba ck if ... oh , I'm sorry . I did n't mean to rush it. (Members ma de various comm ents at the sam e time ,) Council Member Moore said so let's assume for the moment , we con tin ue ... winter is defined as Novembe r through Fe bruary , and no le as h du ri ng that pe riod . Now let's move to the summer and you know what , I'm hearing , I th ink kind of picking some of Joe 's words earlier , maybe It is easier to start with Englewood Un lcasheu hours , during our redefined summe r months ... of 6 to 11 and figure out what pull back , if any , from those we need . Jim , I think I heard you say 6 to 1 O In the morn ing or did I tribute that incorrectly? Yes , that was Jim , Randy ? Council Member Penn sa id I'm willing to go 6 to 11 . Council Membe r Moore sa id Randy is at 6 to 11 . Bob ? He replied 6 to 11 . Council Member Moore sa id I'm absta inin g. 6 to 10 Joe ? Council Member Jefferson sa id 6 to 11 . Counc il Member Oakley said 6 to 10, Counc il Member Moore said alright , so we have two ~ to 10 and whatever I say won 't change the majority, He said I believe ... l'm for the sake of mov ing this along ... l am • go ing to make a moti on to amend Randy's mot ion so that the mot ion will provide ... MayorWoodward sa id ••he re did we end up on summer ? Council Member Moore sa id 6 to 11 . Ma yor Woodward said 6 am to 11 . He s~i d • Englewood City Council October 19, 2009 Page 25 okay and then how about the even ing ? Counc il Member Moore sa id 6 to 11 ... no , I'm sorry . Council Member Jefferson sa id i lhink he is saying that he would like to , I thought I heard someone say he might like to change ii. Council Member Moore sa id okay , I'm sorry . I focused on the morning . Counc il Member Jefferson said you have support for the 6 to 11 here . Counc il Member Moore said is there concern about 6 to 11 evening ? Council Member Moore sa id not from Randy . Wayne ? Council Member Oakley sa id I still have a concern . I wou ld suggest 7 to 11 bu t... Council Member Jefferson said I th ink we 've got a majority on 6 to 11 . Council Member Oakley sa id do we? Council Member Moore said we 've got Randy, Bob , me , Joe . He said do you guys want me lo proceed with the mot ion? Council Member Penn sa id yes . Mayor Woodward said we 've got it. Now as I understand it, th is would be the motion : the winter months would be November through March . Council Mem~· "'i lson said February . Mayor Woodward corrected and said February . Council Member Wilson said my , '°ncern is to go along with the February ... Mayor Woodward said wait a minute , let me just fin ish . The winter mont 1s would be November through February -no leash . The summer would be March through October 31 and it WJuid be 6 am to 1' 1m and 6 pm to 11 pm ... 6 am morning and 6 pm evening? Council Member Penn said y,,s May,rWoodwarc ;~id is there a motion for that amendment to the motion? COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER WILSON SECONDED TO AMEND THE MOTION TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY MANAGER THE SETTING OF SPECIFIC OFF-LEASH HOURS FOR DOGS FOR JASON, CENTENNIAL, DUNCAN AND THE NORTHWEST GREENBELT PARKS TO BE EFFECTIVE JANUARY 1, 2010. SPECIFICALLY : MARCH 1 THROUGH OCTOBER 31 ··OFF-LEASH HOURS FROM 6:00 TO 11:00 AM AND 6:00 TO 11:00 PM; AND NOVEMBER 1 THROUGH FEBRUARY 28 OR 29 -100¾ OFF-LEASH HOURS (NO RESTRICTION ON OFF-LEASH HOURS) . • Council Member Moore said we are just amending the motion , we are not voting on ii. Council Member Oakley sa id I am trying to figure out whether just vr •ing to amend the motion , ii doesn 't mear. the same thing for our next vote . Council Member Moore said in effect it is going to mean the same thing but procedurally we first have to amend the motion . Council Member Oakley sa id so then if from a standpoint of not agree ing with the hours , I will need to vote no on both of them? Council Member Jefferson sa id you could vote yes on this one and no on the ne xt one . There was laughter with various mt mber comments . Council Member Moore sa id the quest ion now is does th is represent a better comprom ise put in front of Counci l to vote on? So I will support th is motion be cause I think it is a better compromise to put in frunt of Counc il and Council can then express their ... Coun ci l Member Oakley sa id we are going to dis cus s th is . Council Member Moore sa id it is two different votes so ... Coun ci l Member Wilson sa id we are amend ing the old version of hours . Coun ci l Member Moore sa id correct. Counc il Member Oakie1 said aga in I assume we 're going to talk signage and enforcement , ir, addition to this , is that correct? Council Member Wilson said I would think so , I am . Mayor Woodward said I th in~ we can certainly speak to the City Manager about that ancj fund ing about that bu t not... I lh ink th is is the mr tion that we are try ing to get through right ton ight. Signage is a .. • Council Member Moore said in fact Jim , maybe a thought would be .... l guess I'm propos ing ... Lel's go ahead and vote on this mot ion to amend the mot ion . Council Member Wilson said th is is our starting po int. Coun cil Englewood City Council October 19 , 2009 Page 26 Member Moore sa id th is is our start ing poin t. We are resetting the starting po int. II is oo ly ten tative . Mayor Woodward asked if everybody has voted . The answer was no . Council Member Oakley said I generally don 't state why I am voti ng but in this instance I pro ba bly will . I just wa nt times for the people to be able to let their dogs run free and just want time where people can take the ir kids there and feel safe . If this is the best hou rs that I can get , and ii sounds like it is . then I will go along with it. Council Membe r Jefferson said I think that is a fair characterization of what is happening . Mayor Woodward said well we are no t clone discussing . So what we need to vote , you can vote no on th is or vote yes and we are going to still discuss these hours aga in . ri gh t no w. Vote results: Mot ion carried . Ayes : Council Members Penn , Mccaslin , Moore . Woodward , Jefferson , Wilson . Oa kley Na ys : None Mayor Woodward sa id so now the or iginal moti on has been amended as far as the winter months and the winter hours . Council Member Moore sa id now , if I may ask a question . There are , as Jill po inted out , issu es if we agree to these hours to nigh t. there are other iss ues to also . that we can cover . We can either stay tonight and get them all out , or if ii is acceptable we can put it as a Study Sess ion to Jim. nushing ou t some of the things that go along with this . but if we need 10 say, well the voting on it tonight is fin · too . Council Membi,r Jefferson said keep In min d, I guess that Is what I was trying to do ... attempt to do it be for e we go t into all of tt,is , you know . I was try ing to brin g up some of these other concerns that I had about this but , you know. it seemed that everybody was suµportive regardles s of some of those issues and so ... isn 't that what we heard? A consensus of Council sayin~ that they were supportive of hours re~ardless of some of those ancillary issues . And so. in my mind , they truly are totally , you know , ancillary . I think they could be dealt with at the next meeting . at a Study Se ss ion . S&veral members spoke at once . He said is th is going to make or break the decision ... because if so , that is what I was trying to do early on by saying . hey , I've got.. Mayor Woodward sa id can I just make a stateme nt? Coun cil Member Jeffe rson said certainl y. Mayo r Woodward said Englewood Unleashed has offered to pro vid e signage for Jason Park . We also ha ve Centenni al Pa rk . Duncan Park and the Gre enbelt , which is gcing to need sig nage wh ich wa s n~t included in the budget that we worked with ton ight and I'm sure that Jerrell didn 't have it as a contingency . So it this is to take effect January 1, ma ybe we should tal k so we are giving the City Manager some direct ion on how to do thi s. The sig nage at Jason Park is not acceptable . It does not work . It is not acceptable and it does not inform the public . We heard Tav is Hanna tonight offer som eth ing that I thin k he has done at Canine Corral that has been effective , so ... Council Member Moore said Mayor , I belie ve we've got flexi bility m th e next two or three Study Sessions . so I think we have time to deal with it. Mayo r Woodward said we 're at adm inistrative on totally on that right? Council Member Moore said yeah . right , so I wo"ld like to give it a little more proper treatm en at a Study Session . Ma yor Woodward sa id okay than let's come bac k to th e motion . Council Member Moore said okay, so I will volun tee r. I will vote in favor of th is com prom ise . As I sta ted before . I don 't th ink in the long run that ii is the bes t way but . again as I. .. the process of Council is one of compromising . On e of us can 't...fo rtuna tely , one of us c;,n 't drive th ings solely on the ir own op inion . So I respect th e effort of • • the citizens . I respect the discuss ion tonight . so despite wh at I thi nk the right answer is. I think from a • compromised sta ndpo int . this is fa ir. So that is h N I will be comfortable supporting it. • Englewood City Council October 19 , 2009 Page 27 Council Member Jefferson sa id I had sim ilar emot ions , I guess , as Council Member Moore . I, too , will support the hours in the mot ion that we have in front of us but I don 't thin k it represents a true lon g term solution and trul y believe there is better solutions out there . Council Member Wilson said I support the mot ion an d I agree . I mean I think that is someth ing tha t can be loo ked at in the future , another park but I still thin k tha t there are pe ople who would ... l don 't know if that is the total answer fo r everyo ne . I will agree to pu l. together a task force to , you know , see if that would be what people wanted . I do apprec iate everyone co mi ng forward . I do appre ci ate ... ! know this has been emotional , it has been a roller coaste· but it was an agreerMnt to come up with the hours and so I th ink this is a fair compromise . I will vote yes for it. I do want to !ipeak though too on signage and enforcement and along with that and possibly fines, strong fines . Mayor Woodward said Wayne , do yo u wan t tr: ·e,sa rve , to be last or ... '/ Council Member Oakley sa id to comment? I! doe sn 't make any difference . I feel that we had a little more ,com for compromise on the hours but I see that I have no support for that. Bu t · lo think we have to commit someth ing to signage and enforcement and I th ink both sides would agree tc, that. Mayor Wood1<ard said Randy ? Council Member Penn said I will talk , I hope that some way this meets some kind of medium for everybody that's out there that has ta lked to us , that ha s give n their life every Monday night for the last few months . I hope this meets some kina of compromise for you and will satisfy you in some way . The signage is definitely a must. I hope that we continue to patrol ourselves, ta take care of ourselves and make sure that we do that. t would like maybe , like everybody else , possibly someth ing an the enforcement. What we could do to step up • enfa,cement dawn there . I truly believe that for limited future parks that that has to be something on the agenda that will take awhile to do . So , I am going to vote for it. Again it is a comprom ise for me . It is not exactly what I would like to see but I'm not the one who 's setting all these and I will live with it for awhile . Mayor Woodward said Bob ? Counc il Member Mccaslin said well I got shot down with the idea of fencing the people in the playground , wh ic h has turned around ta ... There. was laughter . Council Member Penn cause somebody wanting it now. Cou,1cil Member Mccasli n said until somebody else wanted it now. I believe it was Mr. Hanna , w;,a spoke today . I really like his idea . You know , every ball field you play on the boundaries are marked . I mean , the re are clear , distinct boundariss . I think people after , you know, where we are trying to re-educate the publ ic ... ! think after edu ca ting the public , boundaries could be set with , you kn ow, like Mr . Hanna said , with lines . That is strictly enforceable . You pass th e line , when you 're in a ball field ... you koow when a guy is out of bounds . You see the dog out of bound s, he is out of bounds . So I lik e t he idea by Mr . ri ann a so you can pass that on . But I am truly In favor of a comprom ise where we ta lked about for months . Both sides have said a compromise is ne ces sary and I am for it. But I still like th e fe nce idea around it. There was laughter. He said sorry . And I'm not fenci ng the kids in . Mayor Woodward said I will vote along with th is. I do have the same rese rvat ions that in summer mont ns lhal I th ink Wayne doe s and that is the 6 pm because I do believe that is a hig h sheller period . However, It is n't every day . It is time s and I think we do have ta provide ... to al least let people know that 6 pm . Again Tav is ' idea was a brand new one that is a barri er and puts the owners on notice wh ich is a very simple ide a an c! I think it is great as far as a paint line or a chalk line . I ho po that is something that we c~n look at witho ut interfering with the T- b•II an d all that sort of thing as fa r as the lines , but I think that is a good idc a and his board , wh ich Is at Canine Corral too , I th ink that is a good idea . So , I will support this . Council Member Oakley sa id and I would support Tavis' idea too bu t I got so ham rn ered so bad on th e fence , I • did n't know whether to speak up or not. There was laughter . Council Member Wilson said I th ink it wou ld definitely be easy to enforce once you crossed the line Englewood City Council October 19 , 2009 Page 28 Counc il Member Jefferson said so I guess I've got lo pose the question though , If everybody thin ks Iha! is such a greal idea , why aren 't we doing Iha!? There was laugh ter and comments , Mayor y:,~d•.·.'3rd sa id please vote . Counc il Memcer Jefferson said I'm so rry , so everybody Is just saying no , all joking aside , that that is a solution because I don 't know, by enacting these hours , I mean , lhat's pretty , you know .. , Mr. Hanna 's ide a is going by the wayside . Mayor Woodward sa id ~I r. Hanna 's idea is not the reason that I'm going along wit~ this . I'm complimenting him on what he sa id ton ig ht. These hours ... Council Member Jefferson sa id ii is a better solution in your mind than Mr. Hanna 's, Council Member Wilson sa id on part of the public on the hearing . Mayor Woodward sa id is hav ing to do with the motion that came forward and Mr . Hanna 's idea is very secondary too that. Council Member Jefferson sa id I just want to clarify because I just heard a lot of, hey that was a great idea why aren 't we doing that , and then we are going to vote on something totally separate and I thi nk it is goin g to ~ass , I just want to make sure that truly nobody up here is voting yes on this, I'm sorry , nobody up here is voting on this , you know , th inking th is other idea is a better idea without saying it, correct? I just wanted to ma~.e sure . Vote results on original motion II amended: Motion carried . Ayes: Council Membe rs Penn , Mccasl in , Moore , Woodward , Jefferson , Wilson , Oakley Nays : None (ii) Mayor Woodward said I just wanted to ment ion that we did have the celebration on Saturday of the open ing of our two bike/pedestrian bridges : one at Oxford and one at Dartmouth . It was a very beautiful day and successful open ing . We did have a lot of people come from the •og ion : Arapahoe County and the South Suburban Foundation , Littleton and Sheridan council people . And Leigh .~r,n Hoffh ines put on a very nice event and did a very nice job of getting that all put together along with Parks an d Recreation . (iii) Mayor Woodward said also Jerry Furman and Rick , I would like to address the Flood Middle Sc hool , We do not own Flood Middle School or the playground area . That is a question that needs to go to the School District. We have a Parks ' Master Plan stuff, but Flood isn 't part of it. If that belongs to the Englewood School Dis.rict... thot is separate from City Council and us . Plus there is no parking there except for the other side there of Flood . Turn ing that whole thing in to dog park , I think you would he ar from Englewood sports , youth spurts , and probab ly some other grou ps (iv) Mayor Woodward sa id Ma rty and Chris, than k you for your com pliments . I found it offensive to be asked out in the corridor and to have ii inferred by Mr. Crabtree that that was a setup and that I had asked them t0 com~ or had bro.,ght them here . (v) Mayor Woodward said I thin k with regard to Rick 's questions with regard to the Mclellan property and the publ ic noti ce ... Rick has been talking abou t on the campaign trail , about how he attends Study Sess ions and Council meetings , at least that is what I've been told . He is gone . I have never seen him attend one full meeting , Council meeting or Study Sess ion , but if he would have attended the Study Sess ion last week , he would have known about Mclellan because it was announced last week at the St udy Sess ion . I thought Frank gave us all the information we needed there an d I was happy with that. • • (vi) Mayor Woodward sa id with regard to Matthew , the pavemen t and concrete issue that he is talking about , this City Counc il did not accept that as a hard surface . They sent it bac k. In fact. : c.m not • aware of, I don 't thin k there is anybody on Coun cil that believes totally in pavement or concrete . We er< 1111 looking at someth ing different from gravel to grani te . So , he has got misinformation there . Public TV , th~, ,s for Comcast only . The cost of that is not $300 , the nu mber that has bee n thrown around plus franch ise fees . Th N e • Englewood City Council October 19 , 2009 Page 29 is a cost for the equipment to that and there Is also a cosl to have a production person sitting there taking the mov ies or ma king the film of that. So we are leaving out a certain port ion of lhe people , I lh lnk we do audios righl now and will certa inly continue to do audios . If we could do onl ine stream ing , Iha! would be great but aga in, I don 't th ink this is the time Iha! I'm going lo go look to prov ide , you know , both transparency lo just Comcast people . I think transparency Is a greal word . II has been one of the hot words of the year ... the last couple of years . I don 't know anybody that is against transparency . I lhink this Council is available to anybody thal would like lo contact us via telephone , email, whatever and our web site certainly has all kinds of information on ii. Line Item budget I knuw there is some ... we are looking at a line item budget. Finance has been seeing what could be done on that. There may be the possibility , prov ided that...l would not support buying a brand new server or something like lhat to hold a line item budget. We don 't need to know how man y test tubes the Wastewater Treatment Plant needs . I wouldn 't want to second guess them on their chemicals . I wouldn 't want lo second guess what Publ ic Works says the Rec Cenler ne eds as far as to ilet paper, which I mentioned at the forum . I would sure hate to run out In December and not have any available . So , some of this stuff, I have found just not to be true . (•i ii) Mayor Woodward said and in going back lo Rick 's thing , I hope Rick got his answers on wher. the• money came from . No General Fund money was utilized for the Mclellan lease and t~e grading . All of the funds came from the sale , In lieu of condemnation , of the RTD parcel and Its revenue source is gigantic for the City of Englewood . So I will leave it there and pass maybe to John tonight. (b) Council Members' Choice (i) Council Mem'>er Moore said well to ~d honest Your Honor , the main comments that I wanted to make tonight were directed to Mr. Crabtree . He 's left. He is not in here al the moment so if he retums ... Mayor Woodward said he has his mike here .. ,Counc ll Member Moore continued If he doesn 't return • before it is over , I'll comment for the tape , Mayor Woodward responded okay , • (ii) Council Member Penn : 1, He said you know we talk about businesses . II is really nice lo have Arapahoe Credit Union come back to the City of Englewood . I th ink it is outstanding and I think the ir building is absolutely gorgeous . II was a great grand opening and hopefully we can attract more businesses to the City of Englewood . I :hink the way that we are working with businesses , we can do It. 2. He said the impact team will be a lremen dous asset for the City for lhe next four or five years . Hopefully we can conlinue it forever . I congratulate the four gentlemen thal we picked and unfortunalely I didn't get lheir names right away . Gary , please tell them congralulalions from all of us . I'm sure ... Cily Manag •:,r Sears said we'll do that I'll pass that on . 3. He said Marty and Ch ri s, you know I'm not runn ing fo r campaign ... l just enjoyed the ir compli ments . I'm glad that they came in and complime nted lhe City Cr :mcil. If ii wasn 't a campaign ploy , please come bac k and see me in two years . 4, He said Ela ine, she left alr&ady , lalking about what we do on private propert y and I believe that when we do our UDC Code , everything Is grandfathered in, Unfortunately , I don 't think most people unde rstand that and maybe we need to be a little more clear on that That is something that she was concerned with . 5. He said to Rick and Matt , when you are sharpen ing your penc il , giving out numbers , please include all of the numbers and do n't come up with just numbers tha t satisfy you . And that is all I have sir . Mayor Woodward sa id thank you Randy . (iii) Council Member Mcca sl in : 1, He said now that Mr. Crabtree is In the room , ma ybe I can ... l had one item that he attacked me on a coup le of weeks ago about myself getting a team of kids from th e Englewood High School lo steal signs . I Englewood City Council October 19 , 2009 Page 30 would like to know where that is and I would like ... the accusations really bothered n ,e . When my character is attacked .. Mr. Crabtree stood up in the audience and began speaking but It was not audible. Council Member Mccaslin said excuse me. This is no t...this is not...sit down please. Mr. Crabtree responded for one I never accused you of... Council Member Mccaslin sa id you know what... I do not like it because it was based on lies and I do not like to be accused of that. In no such way have I approached anyone to steal anyone's sig ns . When I ran two years ago, I lost signs too . B,1! I did not go around accusing my opponents or anyone else. So I j us t wanted to clear the statement that I had nothing to do wit h sign stealing and it was brought up. So that's all I wante~ to say . 2. He sa id thank you guys for coming . I appreciate the positive. I know that you sat through a long and lengthy Council meeting but I appreciate vou s!icklr.g it out. Thank you so much . (iv) Council Member Moore : 1. He sa id than k you Your Honor. It was really funny hearing people talk about my retirement today and I have to admit that it was the only time I heard that, so I guess I better accept my age. 2. He said first of all , Mr. Gill it is not here, and you guys have already mentioned it, but his comments about not understanding where the lease was com ing from . We announced it last Monday. I believe it was in the paper th is week, the Englewood Herald. The lease was signed today . We approved it tonight. I don 't know what could be more open about the process. 3. He sa id Mr. Crabtree , I'm going to address you . I generally make it a policy not to . You ha ve a right to speak . You have been here nearly every session , if not every St ·on, for the last two years. We give you the respect to listen to :,our unique views. The only time I personally ... , ,agree with most of them , I generally will • only comment on them when you cross the line. Y~u pushed real close with the public hearing process tonight. • You are entitled to your view but I will tell you , as• Council Member, I rely heavily on ... l am not an expert. I am not an attorney. I don't do this as a full timP. career. 1 , ,;iy heavily on the advice that I receive from staff and from the attorney. My understanding of tha public hearing process , if nothing else out of the fairness to all of those who participate in it, is that when we go to public hearings , everyone has the opportunity to hear what is in the public hearing and we should be refraining from engag ing in that debate outside of the public hearing . What happened in the Study Session was not an attempt to stifle the discussion, it was question about proce•;s, It was my be lief, to honor the pub lic hearing process, I wanted to make sure that we restricted the comment to what we had had in the public hearing . Worse than that, you have participated actively in government. I respect the fact that you are runn in0 for office . I am amazed that you did not extend that respect to the citizens here tonight that spoke . You are a candidate. If they care to become involved ... if they feel that they need to come in and get involved in the process and express tneir views , they are entitl ed to do th at. You should have respected that outlet. There Is no reason to assert that they were put up to it. Even if they were, they have free choice . And so , I hope in the future , and I hope if you get on Council, you extend that openness to views to those that may be on the other side of you . So I apologize to those individuals who did express the ir opinions tonight and had their involvement in the ... had their involvement characterized in the manner that you did . And tha t is it. Than k you. (v) Council Member Oakley said that I would just like to state to Mr, Crabtree that I have neve r said anything one way or the other about what he has spoken about before Council. Bu t ton ight, I was personally offended that he accused me and Jim of staging some citizens' comments. By doing this , he not onl y degrades Jim and myse,t, but he degraded the citi<ens that spoke. That's all I have. (vi) Council Member Wilson: 1. She said I would like to speak to the grandfathering and to hope to make that pe rfe ctly clear that when we do something people are grandfathered into that process . 2 . She said I wanted to also speak that we have the audio, which I took advantage of, while I was ... si r.ce I was back from vacation. It was excellent. I thought the quality was good . I was very impressed. And ,t t,, 'ped me a lot hearin g that and rea ding all the minutes and what happened. • • Englewood City Council October 19, 2009 Page 31 3. She sa id thank you 10 Marty , Chris and Migue l. It ,s nice to have people come forward and say they th ink you are do ing a good job. As in every aspect of life , people are qu ick to criticize , not alwa ys quick to tell you that you are doing a good job . So thank you . 4. She sa id the Mclellan Reservoir . I'm thrilled to death that we got that lease . I th ink this is just going to be the beg inn ing of a huge opportun ity for the City to benefit . 5. She said congratulations to the Impact Team . It's great tha t they are on board . I've heard a lot about it. I was never here while we had them . So I think it's great that we have them back and good job in getting that grant . So that's all that I have . (vii) Council Member Jefferson : He said just wanted to commen t 'o the folks who came and spoke ton ight. Claud ia, from the Ara pa hoe Credit '.Jn ion , it is really nice to have them back in Englewood . I wanted to thank her for her kind words and to say it is nice to have them back in town . 2. He said I just wanted to thank Chief Vandermee for bring ing in the impact team and introducing th em to us . I wanted to personally thank Perry , Joel , Chad , Matt , for their previous service and for the future service that they 'll provide to the community . I know that the commun ity is really excited about the potential of having the impact team back . 3. He said to Mr. Hanna , thank you so much for com ing down and providing different solutions to our problem . I think I would have actually preferred his solution but I'm glad that we were at least able to come to • some form of compromise tonight and put the issue behind us . 4. He sa id to Jerry , I wasn 't really sure ex actly what his po int. .. what his comments were geared toward the road painting . If he has a specific area or address , where some th ings are awry , he can provide that to us and we 'll provide that to staff. Not crazy about Flood as a dog park . As the mayor mentioned , we don 't own that. Purchasing that land would be not that great and Is not possible at this time . I would love to see that be a large revenue generating property in the future . 5. He said I wanted to thank Marty , Chris , Migue l, and Robin for the ir kind words . 6. He said and to Rick , I generally agree with him , but enforcement is going to be an issue with the new policy we enacted ton ight. Hopefully we answered the questions surround ing Mclellan . I do believe It was a fa i~y transparent process . We were able to save on those bro~erage expenses by having staff deal with the contracting and what-not of the land . So we were ab le to do that fa irly efficiently . 7. He sa id and just to highlight other comments on the grandfathering . To Ela ine , who brought that fcrwa rd , about her concerns . The re is no su ch thing as a retro-act ive law . The pol ic ies generally go forward and only affect people who weren 't going to be grandfathered in becaus e they did not have the use prior to th e law be ing passed . {Clerk 's not e: The following proposed resolution was lis ted on the Agenda as Item 12 (b) (i).J A RESOLUTION RECOMMENDING TO THE CITY MANAGER OF THE CITY OF ENGLEWOOD , COLORADO THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A TEMPORARY SUSPENSION OR MORATORIUM ON THE ENFORCEMENT OF • SELECT PROVISIONS OF THE EN GLEWOOD MUNICIPAL CODE 2000 , THE SIGN CODE , PERTAINING TO WALi. MURALS FOR A PERIOD OF SIX MONTHS . City Attorney Brotzman sa id maybe I should clar ify . I've actually requested the resolution regarding the suspension of temporary moratoriu m be pulled . Council Member Moore sa id be specifi c. The temporary Englewood City Council October 19, 2009 Pai;• 32 moratorium on ... City Attorney Brotzman repl ied regard ing murals . That was on the agenda tonight. Headed West has filed a petit ion for rehearing . One of the reasons was to avo id the risk of future attorney's fees from the firm that the ACLU hired . With the petition for rehearing , that is up in the air. We may bring this back at a future date but right now with the rehearing pending , my recommendation is too simply to pull it. Counci l Member Moore said thank you . A RESOLUTION RECOMMENDING THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A TEMPORARY SUSPENSION OR MORATORIUM ON THE ENFORCEMENT OF SELECT PROVISIONS OF THE ENGLEWOOD MUNICIPAL SIGN CODE PERTAINING TO WALL MURALS FOR A PERIOD OF SIX MONTHS WAS PULLED . 13. City Managefs Report (a) City Manager Sears said the only thing I had is I just wanted to let Council know that we did have an Australian group ... this will only take a second ... They were here from the Center for American Studies . There were 16 to 20 people here last week . They were touring San Francisco, Denver , Englewood , Washington D.C., to study sustainable development and transit-oriented development and the feasibility of making that happen . This is about the 81" to •,r that we 've had so far this year. I'll try and get more information out. Again , Englewood is really targeted ... has been written up in books . Our transit-oriented development is just...it is intemationa: and it is the one site that people feel they can go to, to take a look at how to make a mixed-use development happen with transit. We'll try and be more specific, but we have these groups probably about once every , I don 't know, every two or th ree or four weeks . They 've done that for the last three or four years . It is really uplifting to have such an interest in our City as an international site with all kinds of reports . I know that there is a PBS documentary thi,t will be coming out I think in March about the transit-oriented develG;,m~nt. Jim • and I were interviewed for that awhile ago , but we 'll keep Council posted on that. And that's all I have this • evening . 14 . City Attorney's Report City Attorney Brotzman did not have any further matters to bring before Council. 15. Adjournment OODWARD MOVED TO ADJOURN . The meeting adjo ,,rned at 10:46 p.m. //V R,Fl/)//,1'/,/'. -d'· •