HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008-11-03 (Regular) Meeting Minutes•
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ENGU:WOOO CITY COUNCIL
ENGLEWOOD, ARAPAHOE COUNTY, COLORADO
ReAular Session
November 3, 2008
1. Call to Order
The regular meeting of the Englewood City Council was called to order by Mayor Woodward al 7:43 p.m.
2. Invocation
The Invocation was given by Council Member Mccasli n.
3. Pledge of Allegiance
The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Council Member Mccaslin .
4. Roll Call
Present:
Absent:
A quorum was present.
Also present:
Council Members Jefferson , Moore , Penn , Oakley , Mccaslin , Wilson ,
Woodward
None
City Manager Sears
City Attorney Brotzman
Deputy City Manager Flaherty
Deputy City Clerk Bush
City Clerk Ellis
Director Gryglewicz , Finance and Adm inistrative Services
Director Fonda, Utilitie s
Director Black , Parks and Recreation
Director Kahm, Public Works
Director Wh ile, Com ,nun ity Development
Engineering /Capital Projects Administrator Hende rson , Public Works
Po li ce Chief Vandermee
Fire Chief Pattarozzi
Police Commander Watson
5. Consideration of Mlnute.i of Previous Se ssion
(a) COUNCIL MEMBER JEFFERSON MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER PENN SECONDED,
TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF THE REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF OCTOBER 20 , 2008 .
Mayor Woodward asked if there are any corrections or modifications . There were none .
Vote results:
Ayes : Council Members Penn , Mccaslin, Moore , Woodward , Jefferson ,
Wilson , Oakley
• Mo tion carried .
Nays : None
6. Recognition of Scheduled Public Comment
Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 2
(a) Ma yor Woodward sa id we are going to start tonight with a presentation to the Englewo od Police
Citizen 's Academy Graduates . There are a couple of things that I wo uld like to say . First is this is a Cit izen
Academy that is a nine week program totaling 27 hours . The objective of th is program is to gel the citizens
ps'1icipat ing and having an active role In an active partnership with the Pol ice Department , towards commun ity
policing . The class is providing these citize ns wit h an ove rvi ew of the Pol ice day-to -day funct ions . The class is
also showing the cit izens how valuable their participation is as an informed citizen in keeping our commun ity
safe . The class consisted of Code Enforcement to utilizing the shooting simulator at , I believe , Arapahoe
Commun ity College . They sla '1ed with 14 members back in September and have ended with 14
memb ers ... 100% partic ipation . With that , I would like to turn it over lo Chief Tom Vandermee .
Ch ief Vandermee said thank you , Your Honor and members of Council . Th is is, in fact , the second graduating
class of the Englewood Police Citizen 's Academy . And , it is worth noting , as the Mayor mentioned , that in both
of these classes there have been 100% graduations . 100% of the people that were accepted into each of these
Academy classes completed the entire 9 week Academy session . And I think , that is quite a commitment for
d tizens to make . They do th is simply because or their interest in learning more about the community . The
,nglewood Police Department and its members are committed to the ph ilosophies of community policing and
~ •• tr,mer service . And by prov iding these kinds of outreach programs , I think it helps us to create a much better
r~lationship with ihe members of the commun ity . Fourteen citizens are grsduating from this Academy class and
, Nould like to take the opportunity at this time to introduce Toni Ge ier. Toni :sour Community Relations
Specialist and she is th~ one who has been responsible for spearheading both of thes e Citize n's Academy and
she puts in a lot of time , er ·rt and energy to make sure that all of the classes a e scheduled . The classes are
taught by members of t1 1is Police Department ... sworn officers and other mem bers or the Police Departmen t
Code Enforcement personnel . Toni does the bulk of the work with that. I would also like to have Commander
Sam Watson step up . Sam is the Supervisor of the Neighborhood Services Division or was until his recent
transfe . to the Patrol Divisi on. So Sam has his hand ,: in and making sure that this project gets completed and
done . swell. At this time , what I would like to do is read off the names of the graduates . Toni and Sam will
hand them their certificates . I would inv ite each member that I ask to come up to please stand up here and
accept their certificates : Mar j n Albright, Victoria Eddy , Ken Haraldsen , Barbara Hodge, Julie Keeling, Liz
Leone , Mary Lop ez , Marty Mosman, Jerri Myers ... Chief Vandermee said ii is worth noting that Jerri 's husband
went through the first Academy class , so either he convinced her it was worth going through or she made him
go throcgh t~,e first time to te st the water ... Janet Simpson , Terry Spen ce, George Sullivan , Ju lia Watson ,
Zachary Yon . There wa s app lause after each name was announced . Chier Vandermee said thank you . I would
just like to mention in clo sing that we already have the third Citizen 's Aca demy scheduled and you will be seeing
some more informati on in the near weeks on that class as well . Thank you .
Mayor Woodward said thank you. There was applause .
Mayor Woodward said I would ju st like to furt! .er mention that I telieve the next course is com ing up early in th e
yea r ... like in February , if I'm correct. Ton i let me know if that is correct. Some of Ih a ,nodules include drugs an d
gangs , SWAT overview, patrol procedures , basic self defense, driving sir,1ulation , shooti ng si mulation , criminal
invP.stigat ion , crime scene and fo re ns ic s science and Code Enforcement overview . I th ink thes e are citizens
th at are involved and will be citizen eyes and ears for our community . I believe this group of 14 and the
previ ous group anrl our futu re groups are certa inly goi ng to ma ke a difference in ou r community. So , again
cong ra tulations oro com ple ting th is course and for what y,,u do . Thank you . There was applause
(b) G;egg l.1iller sa id I am a bus iness and property owner here in Englewood and I am here to
address the appl 1~.,tion fur Conditional Use for All Recycli ng South transfer station . I'll keep my comm en ts
und er ten minutes and ;r you have question s or comrr ents , let me know. I just want to present my concern to
the City of Englewood to pursue the approval of the rt 'use transfer station without further review of impact on
the area and further r.,,tification of the affected properl y owners and businesses . I doe·• thi nk anyone Is really
aware of what is going to be tak ing place there and not a lot or not ifi cation has occurred, so I th ink that probably
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needs to happen before ii is approved . I was made awa re of it when they posted the first noU,cation sig ns near •
th e site and I th ink there was an ad in the paper as well. I was not able to do an yt hing , because I wa s out of
town at the time of that t>,•? wsek du rat:on that ii was posted , so I missed the publ ic he aring that wa s held on
Octo ber 21", which I don 't thin k had any negative reedbac " at all because I don 't th ink that many people were
aware of the situ ation . Some of the key c nce rm, abo ut t~e ,efuse tra ns fer station is one ... obviously the
Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
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• property values of a transfer stat ion going in the ne ,ghbcrhood ... history shows the property values usually do n't
go up when that type of .. usiness goes in the ne ighborhood an d so , for myself and for others , there is some
concern for our property values . More so is the effect of the traffic in the area that will affect all of the
businesses there . There was a Traffic Study done ; however, I feel that it looked pure ly at numbers of traffic
coming in and out of the area . and at the part ic ular co rners that they felt would be the route going into the
business . I don 't think it took a re al istic perspective view of the streets and the businesses and the traffic and
how they work in that area . It is an older area of Eng lew ood and it is designed for a cert,•, amount of tra ffic . In
the Traffic Study , it relates numbers that are comparable to hig h volumes , but they are for banks and theate rs
and fast food , which are small , private -ty pe vehicles . Th is refuse center will actually be handling a lot more
large veh icle s ... trash trucks , semi trucks , much larg er in size . I don 't th ink th e numbers were that comparable to
what is really goi ng to be happening ther&. The numbers sugg est about 300 trucks a day ... to get Into very big
specifics , but the point of the matter is I'. adds up to about a truck every minute and a half over the bus iness day ,
wh ich ten ds to be a lol of traffic for that area , because it is not designed as high traffic areas . There are no
traffic signals in that area . There 's some stop signs , but they are two-way stops not four-way stops . When you
look at a refuse cen ter, th e trucks that are com in g in there , it is go ing to take them more than a minute and a
half to un load an d exit. But if you 've got a truck coming every minute and a half, there will be sign ificant bac k-
up , which is part of the concern , because the area is all single-lane traffic . There isn 't parking . There 's no place
for these trucks tr go as they're wa iting , which is going to create a significant problem , not only just outside of
the area , but for several blocks in the two direction s that the vehicles will be coming in and I don 't think that has
been looked at sig nificantly at all . It will also create , with all of that back-up , there will be a lot of access issues
for the bus inesses , a lot of pa rking issues for the businesses . Everything , partic ularly between Dartmouth and
Evans ... that is the access to that facility , wi ll crea te prob le ms because with the back-up with the traffic ,
employees and customers of those businesses will have a very hard time getting in to those bPs inesses ,
because there is no place for thc,se trucks to go if they are not accessing that site . So they • -~ir,g to be
bloc ki ng driveways . Since its ... the re 's no turn lanes really involved in that area , it is going le "" a •it and wa it
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process , which I think is go ing to be significant and it won't just be ... we understand that rush hour does slow
th ings down , but I th ink it's go ing to be more of a con ce rn of an all da y process . Th e Traffic Study only
recommende d fou r directional signs to be posted . That was the on ly recommendation . So , based on that that is
why I'm bring ing up some of these points , because I think you can work with how it currently exi sts . They did
point out that a major area of entrance was Eva ns and Rarit an and that a turn lane might be effective there and
probably required . Ho wever , the sita location doesn 't allow for a turn lane, so it's impract ical is how it was
termed at conclu sio n. So, that can 't be place d there ... so it went ahead and said it can go ahead , but it was stil l
recommended that one was there . So , I don 't know how to address that. It says that it is go ing to be an is sue .
It sug gested a fix , but the fix can 't happen . so I don't know how you address that. That's kind of a concern . Th e
area is very old . Th ere 's not a place 10 widen the streets ; that type of thing . So , I don 't know how the solutions
will be solved . I think there nee ds to ;.,, some more research do ne in tha t area . There obv iously ... with all of
that traffic , two-way stop signs and trucks there are already issJes that we 've had with potential accidents . trying
to pursue through a two-way stop , try;ng to look around a corner, but if the re are trucks sitt ing there , obviously
it's very hard to see and it presents a big ger problem for potent ial accidents . There are two main entrances
from either side . Obviously com ing down Evans onto Raritan is one approach ; the other is off of Dartmouth
co ming on Tejon . One th ing that the traffi c resea rch study didn 't look at is .. obvi ously a main ent ran ce ont o
Dartmouth ... is Dartmouth and Santa Fe where a lot of that traffic will be CMling from . There 's already an issue
where you have a double turn lane com ing onto Dartmouth , going in to a single-lane , so it's already a traffic
impact. If you were to just take half of those 300 tru cks com ing into that area and put " em there , it's going to
crea te a problem that I don 't think is going to be somet hing that is very workable . The ,er entrance , when you
are comi ng oif of Dartmouth onto l e,on , all those trucks coming in also have to exit , so com ing back out of that
neig hb orh ood , if you just took half of them , fi guring half of them would go an d half might go the other , you do
have th e fire stat ion that is just half a bl ock off of that intersectir "· so if you had mult iple :rucks backing
up ... nothing was noted in the Traffic Study that you might be b1ocking , obv io us ly, emergency ve hicle con ditio ns .
I did n't see that addressed In there, so that might be a concern there. Those are just some of the iss ues that we
noticed , as we loo ked al th is ... that cou ld be some concerns . There's obviously a lot more detail impa cted into
those . One of the thi ngs ... when yo u look at that neig hborh ood ... it's an industrial ne igh borhood , and the re are
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already a lo t of tr ucks in th ere , but the tru cks work becau se of the low traffi c in the area . There are sem i-trucks
that go through that neighb orhood , but when you look at ho w they work , a Traffic Study doesn 't pick It up
bec3use it's purel y numb ers. Whe n those sem i•lrt.1 cks come into those bus inesses , they are actually us ing the
street to ba ck into the ir docks , so the streets are act ually cut off as the se semi-tru cks are load ing into the
Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
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businesses . wh ich may not be a leg al thing to do , bu t it's worked for many years in that envlron me nt...with the
low traffic . It's not a problem because people can wait . But if you put that mu ch tra ffic into it and those tru ck s:
they are not going to acce ss those bus inesses anymore , so aga in , an other problem with that. So we just
request that a little more thorough research is done befor~ the City Counc il approves that Cond itiona l Use to
allow that. And if it were approved anyway I think another w:se cho ice might be that they ha ve a plan drawn up
for that. Th is refuse stat io,, is the who le block between Harvard and Wes ley and it is suggested that the
entrance /exi t to the property be put on Wesley versus Harvaru . And the re ason for that is that the company
apply ing for this is . All Recycl ing South business , is on Wesley and so they would be the only ones affected by
the ir own bu siness : where if you put it on the Harvard side , they are affecting several other businesses there
and the wa y that the pla n is la id out , you co uld enter from either side . Right now they have the entrance on th e
Harvard side , with no ent rance on the Wesley side . So that might be a ... l don 't th ink it's the proper th ing to
approve it but if it did, tnat might support some of the problems . That's all I have . Th ank you for your time .
Mayor Woodward sa id thank you .
Mayor Woodward said I just might add, typically we do not answer questions during this period of the meet ing :
however , this may be addressed under Council Members ' Cho ice at the end of the meeting . Thank you .
(c) Kathleen McGowan said thank you for the opportun ity to speak before you aga in ton ight. I
rea li ze thi s is not a continuation of the Public Hearing on Council Bill 65 , but before you cast your vote tonight,
please take a moment to cons ider these questions . Where does th is bill come from ? Where does this bill lead
to ? And who does it benefit ? Is it really good for the City as a whole ? Though Council Bill 65 is not site
specific . Mr. Moore pointed out last time , that the South Ogden Street suadivis ion is the test case for this bill .
City staffs own ev idence presented to Council is only about the South Ogden Street subd ivi sion . Th is bill is
pred icated on th is case , just as everyth ing which has preceded th is bill has been pred icated on and driven by
this case . As su ch, I continue to assert that all the facts regarding the South Ogden Street subdivision are
relevant to this forum and to this bill . I th ink the citizens of Englewood deserve all of the facts . Two weeks ago ,
my ne ighbor, Christian Mills . asked Council and the City Attorney if there was a lawsuit regarding Mr . Curnow's
property at 2919 South Ogden Street. Since no one chose to answer that question, we did a publ ic records
search and fo und that , in fact , there is a pend ing lawsuit by Mr. Curnow's company , suing the City of Englewood
and the Board of Adjustment and Appeals regarding this property . I have submitted a copy of that lawsu it for
each of you . Basically Mr. Curnow , through Arapahoe County District Court, is suing the City of Englewood for
both a fi nancial settlement and the subdivision on South Ogden Stree t. This lawsuit is another piece of the
behind the scenes process . which has been ignored and om itted from the public process . I don 't th ink it is fair to
the cit izens of Englewood to keep omitting facts regarding th is test case . Since no one within the City seems to
feel responsible to bring all of the facts forward , if we have to be l he ones to bring the fa cts to th e publ ic forum ,
then we will continue to do so . The City o, Englewood and the Board are the defendant s in this lawsu it. As th e
represe ntatives and agents of the City of F Jlewood , you are all party to this lawsu it. And on July 21" of this
year, Mr. Curnow·s lawyer, Mr. Casebo lt, appeared before Coun ci l seeking ... ·so , we wou ld like Ci ty Counc il to
direct the Attorney 's office or ou1side counsel , whoever is hand ling this , to engage with us in te rms of finding
common ground here , because -,e want to settle this . Or, in the alternative , we respectfully request the City
Council give us the subd ivision · a 1s inappropri ate for Coun ci l to be cons idering th is bill to codify th e 5%
exception , since th e City is be i'l ~ sued by Mr. Curnow for his subdiv isio n based on this 5% exce ption .
Further mo re , I th ink it is just plain wrong . It 's wrong to pass a bill affec ti ng virtually all or Englewood , so Mr.
Curnow ca n get his subd ivis ion. In lig ht of this lawsu it, I contend Council should withdra w Co un ci l Bill 65. In
re gar r' to Mr . Curnow 's law suit , it conta ins many falla cie s, but I wi ll leave th ose to the City Attorney 's office to
fi sure out. But the re Is one cr itical po int in th is lawsu it, and in Mr. Curnow·s lawyer's statement to Counc il, wh ic h
relates directly to th is process , that I would like to cl ar ify . Mr. Curnow cla ims to have bought the property at
2919 South Ogd en Street after the August 6 , 2006 Study Sess io n, wh ich discussed this 5% redu ctio n in lot
width , and after assurance from Community Devel opment that he could subd ivide the pr;iperty . ?esp ite Mr.
Curnow's cla im s, the real facts . according to Arapahoe County records , are tha t he purchased the property on
September 02, 2005. I've also submitted a copy of that for you as well , from the County rec ords . Th e real fa cts
ar e that he purchased the property one year prior to th e 2006 Council Study Sess ion : one year before th ere was
ever any disc uss io n of changing the width minimu m. Th e real fa cts , according to staffs pre se ntation to Counc il
are that the 2006 Study Sess io n was actually predicated on this property . My po int is that the original error was
Mr . Cu rno w's, as was th e original request for this 5% reduction . He bought a property ,n 2005, which the UDC
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Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
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expressly slates does not meet the 50 foot width requ iremenl to subd ivide . Originally , Community Development
told Mr . Curnow no ... no , the property could not be subdivided . There are two ne ighbors who had conversat ions
with Mr . Curnow , In which he expressed his ange; that the City was not granting the subdivision . But Mr .
Curnow wasn 't go ing to accept no as an answer, and sinc e 2006 , he has relentlessly pushed City staff and City
Council to get it. He has pushed it to the point of suing the City to get it. Passing th is bill will put that process in
place . There is no evidence th at anyone other than Mr . Curnow has ever sought this type of subdivision . In
fact , all the evidence indicates that use is not Just the test case , but that it was the original and only one for this
5% reduction in the past three years . Nor is there any evidence tha t anyone other than Mr . Curnow will benefit
from it. Nor is there any evidence anyone else wants it or supports it. All other developers and homeowners
have had to follow the existin g UDC . There were also mistakes made by the City staff when they turned a
Counc il Study Sess ion into an adm inistrative change in the UDC . Please do not continue to perpetuate the
series of errors that have lead to th is point. Attempting to legitimize the errors and mistakes won 't fix them or
make them ri ght. It simply mitigates this 5% reduct ion from one case to all R-1 Districts. That's virtually the
whole city . Don 't j ust pass this hot potato to the Planning and Zon ing Comm ission , a Commission w~ich has
recommended this bill . They will make a decision . Then either Mr. Curnow or our citizens group will appeal that
decisio n. Then it will cnme ~ack to Council , a Council which has already endorsed this bill. In both instances ,
Mr. Curnow will only have to prove the 5% reduction, while , aga in, the neighbors will bear the burden of proof .
According to the bill , Section 5-C ... the neighbors mus t prove that the subdivision has a "sig nifi cant negat ive
impact on those properties surrounding the subdivision and the general health , safety and welfare of the
community ", Then Council will make a decision and either Mr. Curnow or our citizens grou p will appeal to the
District Court. Stop the domino effect. Is the District Court really the entity you want makin g policy for ths City
of Englewood ? Just say no to Council Bili 65 . Force Mr . Curnow to take the respons ibi lity and the
car.sequences of pu rc has ing a property , wh ich does not meet the requiremen ts to subd ivide . Let Commun ity
Development take the responsibility for not following proper procedures and for making promises it shouldn 't
have . Let the City Attorney deal with the consequences of those decis ions , but don 't perpetuate the
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consequences onto the City of Englewood by passing a bill which promote s creating sub-standard, non-
conforming lots throughout 75% of the City . And don 't make our ne ighborhood suffer the consequences by
getting the two S'"'"lies t lots , with the two largest houses , with two large front garages . The answer to the
question of subd i,, a property into lots less than 50 feet in width ... as required by the UDC and supported by
the Eng lewood road map ... was no . That answer should continue to be no . 68 citizens . 68 , signed a letter
ask ing Council to sa y no ... no to subdivisions less than 50 feet in width . Withdraw Council Bill 65 . Vote no on
Council Bill 65 But please do not allow the outcome of Mr. Curnow's mistakes and this lawsu il compounded by
Cit\' staffers · errors , be that he gets his subdivision and perhaps a financi al settlement from the City . What the
citizens of En glewood get are smaller and sma ller lots , as well as the burden of that financial se ttl ement. And
our neighborhood gets unwanted development , destructive to the character and the quality of our neighborhood .
Please consider ... where does th is bill come from , wher,, does th is bill lead to , who does th is bill benefit? Is it
really good for the City of Englewood? Thank you fo r your time .
Mayor Woodward sa id thank you
7. Recognition of Unscheduled Public Comment
(a) ChristiP. McNei l!, an Englewood re si den t, sa id I've come before the board before speaking on
this issue , again regard ing Bill 65 . And ton ig ht I'm happy to be the bearer of good news . I, In my little self non -
scientific study , went around our neighborhood , as I often do with my dog and my baby , and I counted ... in less
than a five block radius from where we live ... from Downing :o the Bates-Logan Park , and between old Hampden
and Yale , more than 28 new builds . That 's not inclu ding the additional properties that have ren ovations,
additions , and upgrades to them . So the good news is ... the current Cod ~ is working . There are 28 new bu ilds ,
probably since 2000 , in that little square of Englewood . What I wan•~d to combat , was the fact that when Mr.
Curnow spoke at the last meeting , he mad e it sound like if you didn 't pass Bill 65 you were doom ing Englewood
to th e dark ages of development. I just want you to know that that's not true and that you should not be
hamstrung into approving th is out of fear that , somehow, Engie,•ood l'/ould not be able to move forward and
• progress and grow and dev elo p in a healthy way that supports 1Justa inable growth and growth that's good for the
current ne ighbors and the landholders And so I would just lik,, you to not be intimidated by a lawsuit , not be
int imidated by broad statements about developers not being in terested in Englewood , or not will ing to de velop if
you don 't do th is. because obv iously they are . Obv iously people are investing in Englewood . Obv iously pe opl e
Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 6
are upgrading in Englewood . There has been absolutely nothing stopping Mr . Curnow from building on that plot
sinc e he purchased ii in 2005 . The only thing that is stopp in g him is the fact that he wants to bu il d two bu ilding s
because it ma l,es him more money. And there is over 28 new propertie s that say you don 't hav e to change the
Code, it's working . Englewood is just fine . Congratulations .
(b) Mary Finch , an Englewood resident , sa id good evening and thank you for your time . I'm kind of
a newbie regarding th is big fat mess that we have on South Ogden Street. Just because somebody can 't follow
the rules , and then he •vants to change the rules and I'm kind of a rule person . I was interested wit h Christie's
statistic about the 28 new houses . I've seen them too . There are o lo'. o1 them en South Clarkson and just all
over and they're just lovely , lovely homes . I just don 't think what Mr. Cur.10,, h~~ plan ned wi ll be all 'ill lovely .
Th is is a big controversy and I hope that you'll take it seriously . I thi nk you .iro on a slippery slope to start
amending your own rules and regs . I'd like to thank Kathleen ior taking this on . I dor,'t know that anybody on
South Ogden Stre et would really have known about it until she got the ball rolling . I'm on, of the 68 who signed
the petition . I'm concerned , I'm concerned . I see th is being the beg inn ing of redevelo r;m,,,·,t ,,,:.\ I'm not all that
in favor of. I guess that's all I have to say tonight. Thank you for you r time .
Mayor Woodward said thank yo u.
Council Member Moore said your honor, can I ask a quick question? Can I ask a clarificati on from th e City
Attorney how this wo rks with our Public Hearing process? Citiz ens are free to speak , but technical!y, we're not
supposed to .. City Attorney Brotzman sa id you are bound by the Publ ic Hearing process , so rou 're b0 uod by
the sworn testimony Iha• was given at the Public Hearin g. Council Member Moore sald ... sa -,.11,1 we're nearing
tonight sho~ld not... that's no: what we should be factor ing in our dec isio n proees s. City Attorney Brotzman said
it's informatio,1al , but no ... the sworn test imony is what you're supposed to be work ing on . Cou ncil Member
Moore sa id thank you . I'm trying to figure out how to deal wi th that difficulty. Please proceed .
(c) Jill E. Moore , an Englewood resident , said obviously I've been here before, as a few of us have .
One thing I did want to point out when Mr . Mill er was here talking cbout his situation, one of the first things he
said was well, I didn 't really know about it until the pub lic sign was posted , in regards to what was going to
happen to that property . That never happened on South Ogden . Never happened . Again , had Christian
Mills ... who lives directly across the street from the property ... not taken notice and Kathleen , who is my ne xt
door ne ighbor ... we never would have known that any of this is go ing on . We knew that the property was sold
but we weren't sure how this was going to impact our neighborh ood , so we didn 't even have a leg up in the very
beginning of th is process . That 's been my whole argument through th is. Of course , I'm not for this . I live two
houses ... actually one house , away from the lot in disc uss ion . This Bill is not and has nothing to do with , in my
opin ion, the whole City of Englewood . It is predicated on this one lot , for th is one builder, a builder who does not
live in Englewood . He says that he Is so interested in and In love with the City of Englewood . We don 't find that
the case . Th ere has been a very big lack of a lot of things in this situation . Lack of transparency from
Community Development: lac k of truth from both Community Development and Mr. Curnow and his attorne y,
frankly . and a lack or trust 'n the people that we have put in place in Englewood , that should take ca re of these
things for us . Processes have not been follo wed . That's been my big beef and tha t... I th ink for all of us , is all of
our conc erns . I, myself, am a homeowner that re -va mped my home , in keeping with the ne ighborhood . I didn 't
build a two-story . I bu ilt a ranch on one lot and I st ill kept my single car garage , because everybody sa id, well ,
you ca n put a two car garage right out in front of your house . That's not what I wanted my house to say . Nol in
my neighborhood . Well , for resale , you should put a three car garage in there . Where in the heck am I going to
put a three car garage? I have no alley . Keeping i11 ri,ind I'm one house awe,y from sa id property . I did ii. I
posted all of the things I needed to do . I got all of the permits I needed to have . I went through lhe proces s.
And frankly , I love my hon,e . I love Englewood ... but I am , and I'll use this word gently , I am disgusted and
dismayed at some of the people that we have put in place to make these deci sions going fnrward with progms s.
And I agree with Christie , Englewood is not go ing to fall apart because Mr. Curnow doesn 't get his subdivision .
He certainly has a lovely piece of property that he can put one gorgeous home on . It's been done in our
neighb orhood at least 28 times . The subdiv isio n, in my opinion, is not go ing to benefit anybody but Mr. Curnow
and he has not been forthcoming with many. many things in this process . Thank you .
May or Woodward said than k you .
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Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 7
(d) Rick Gill it, an Englewood resident, said I have Jwo lh ings. Cne is ... I am in support of 6' · : the
reason thal the C ity needs to be progressive. A lot of things thal were built years ba ck weren 't bu ilt for the
infrastructu re we have now ... some propertie s were laken ... parts of properties were laken , ·,d there are a lot ol
places in Eng lewood that are,1'1 that perfect little box. I thank you for considering being progressiv e and
understandin g that although ii aff~cls them , It could affect other citizens in the future and I think your decision
would take care of that. My second item is ... I'm understand ing lhat the City of Englewood receives qu ite a
chunk of cash from Comcast. I know you can 't comment and I have to wa il. .. but one of the things that some of
us approaching you folks with is open govern ment. It seems like some of our other cities find It very easy to pul
these ses sion s o n the ir website . &I no cost to the publ ic . Yet if I want to hear what happeas at one of the Study
Sessions or one of the City Council meetings ... I have to pay anywhere from $5.0G lo $100 .00 for it. I don't
understand why citizens are burdened for something that the City's already getting a benefit from , from
Comcast. Other cities use Comcast. .. I bel ieve it is Channel 8 that they can have the broadcast done on . If you
could help explain to me ... Joe Citlzen ... aboul how this really works. I have pa id the $5.00 for a tape and I have
helped some other people spend up lo $50.00 to gel something and it just seems petty. I looked al the City's
budget... we went spent a lot of money on a lot of other things that haven't shown we are open government. II
takes as much time to update a website. as it does to cut a CD. I am just asking ... as my Councilman ... as Mr.
Oakley , my Councilman, I am your constituent... would you please le: us citizens have access to recorded items
wilhoat having to pay for them . Since the City is already receiving money for that. Another thing ... the question
about making the tape ava ilable to the public, is ADA. Some people can 't... aren 't able to read . In my
community there are some elderly people that have a hard time reading . But they did have computers ... ll's kind
of funny . The family comes over... There is a way, where they can ... at their home ... lap in and stream this very
session and not have to pay for ii. I ask that you please consider this . II is 2008, going on 2020 ... il feels
like ... but we can do this very slmpl)' The City has a wonderful website ... great information . The City Cle rk has
done a fabulous job of keeping all the items on the minutes. I guarantee you it takes her a lot longer to put the
minutes up on-line, than it does to upload an audio tape or a digital disk . So, I will ask you to consider that.
• And , again, thank you for your positive vote on 65
Mayor Woodward said thank you .
(e) Donna Nelson , an Englewood res ident, said I am another citizen here regarding Bill 65. I'm
sure you 're getting tired of hearing about It at th is point. But last night as I was trying to fall asleep, I started
thinking about what I could say to you, to influence you not to approve Council Bill 65. And I started trying to
look at the facts . and look at th ings in different angles and just try to get my mind around th is thing. Why Is this
so important? Why is this being pushed so hard? And I started thinking why aren't there more lot owners In
favor of th is bill and why aren't they here to support ii? Why hasn't Community Development or Planning and
Zon ing provided CouncI; with information about how many lot owners have requested a variance, only to learn
that there is no vehicle In place to do so. And then I remembered that Mr. Curnow ha~ a plat showing a division
of the lot prepared and that the plat had been signed off on by Plann ing ar.d Zoning . The plat was like one
signature away fro m being approved and recorded and the whole nine yards. And then I started to have an
epiphany. The reason no one is he re, other than Mr. Curnow, is because everyone else who has ever
requested a similar subdivision has rece ived it. It has been sig ned off on by Community Development and
Plann ing and Zoning . They've been granting these subdivisions all along , in violation of the current codes and
ordinances , creating illegal lots. That's my opinion , I could be wrong, but I believe ii to be true. That's why
Community Development and Planning and Zoning trie d to pass this off as a nousekeeping matter. Just a littl e
minor thing . just a little minor housekeeping th ing , because they are trying lo cover the m istakes that they have
made in the past. At th is poinl, I don't ha 'le any be lief that anything I sa y to you will change your minds , but I
challenge you to investigate th is matter. To investigalu how many times this type of subdivis io n has been made ,
because each one of those was illegal. I think this Council needs to know who has bee n in charge of these
subdivisions and I think you need to report back to the people your findings and also report back to us what
consequences w ill be enforced for these illegal act io ns. Thank you.
Mayor Woodward sa id thank you .
• (f) Matthew Crabtree , an Englewood resident , said I would like lo address a couple of issues here.
Partic ularly three different comments directed to ards me and a few th ings I commented on during the last
Council me•ting. First off, I would like to respond to John Moore's comments. And actually, I did go home and
Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Pago 8
researc'i the minutes and I did make a mistake with the characterization . You are absolutely co rrec t. T' ,c
characterization cf your comments ,_-,as incorrec t. I ha ve been sitting in the back of the room and for some
reason , I had mis interpreted what you had said . To clarify what yo u did say ... you said you do mak ,• dec isions
that need to be ma 1s in th is room "I make them In this room ·. I didn 't catch that part correctly . Alt ho egh it is not
nearly as bad as my interpretat ion from the last meeting , I will say that it does allow for interpretaticr. that som e
dec isions , particularly the commen t... "I do make decisions that need to be made , In this room", all o.,s
interpretat io n to make decis ions in Study Sess ion, which can't be done . It is simply black and wh ile. ~f:~r ':;ie
meeting , the last Counc il meeting, I was questioned ... well what about it there is any gray area with this . ',Veil i
did some research and as you know , there are othe r groups like ECOG , that have addressed this issue ,,,itr ,
other Counci l's and they have been successful . They fought similar battles and I compared my notes ar,d my
in terpretat ion of the Open Meet ings Law is ident ical to theirs . And listen , I am not up here to irrila le yo,,, I hope
you all take into con sideration the Open Meet:ngs Law and I hope you all take into consideration the fa ct that
decisions have to be made in th is room . The situation that happened here with the Ogden Stree t... I would li ke
to say it agaln ... that's an issue and it was caused by making a decisi on during ... an Illegal process ... durirg
Study Sess ion . Now on to the next topic here , I wanted to respond to Jill Wilson 's comments too regard ing my
statements during the Public Hearing . You had stated that even though I said I don't have a dog in th is fight ,
you had stated that I had taken sides in the past. And I really haven 't...even though some members of our
group have taken sides in the issue , I have chosen not to . It's a tough issue . There are some interesti ,,g
arguments on both sides . But just to clarify with you Jill , I have not taken sides . And to quote the public reco•d
from my first presentation , back on August 4'", I stated specifically towards the end of my presentation that I
would like to recommend that Council holds a Public Hearing regarding this property . And based on the
information from the publ ic, make the decis ion to grant or not to grant the variance of the lot width . Both
presentations were simply to criticize the process the City had followed with this issue . Understanding tnat it
could easily blow up Now as for the last response ... Wayne Oak l~y ·s comments .. I appreciate your stance on a
few open meetings things . I think you and I do see eye to eye on a lot of issues ... although I am concerned that
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you had stated that if all the discussions were done in this room , not in Study Sessions, the n,eetings would go •
on much la ter than they alread y do . And there Is a bit of a trend he re on Council In the City of Englewc~1. to
rush through these meetings . As an example , there was a motion to vote ... one vote fo , the resolution s and
motions ... ! believe .. a.~d approval of ord inances on second ... it seems that the Council wants to rush through . I
have , over the last yea r and a half, seen very few Council meetings go past 10 :00. Whereas , in Littleton , their
meet ings often times go all the way till 1:00 a.m. or 2:00 a.m. That may sound 'ike a long timP., but if it's a
requiremee' , hring these discussions t-efore the public and have them on the record , that is what you have go!
to do . Sll ; 1s sion has it's ~lace and it Is a fine line between th e two issues . Study Session is for educational
purposes of Lu~si cll, I believe, and discussion . But tr.ere has to be disc ussion in this room too. So issues like
Ogden Stree t. , ;J ain , can l:e looked back upon . 'fhere is no record of the meeting that Ogden Street was
discussed durir ,-a Study Session . It might have been. If that had been discussed during C~unc il , it would have
been just as ea '( a~ loo king through the minutes cf the presentation and understanding what exactl y had been
stated . So with li105 e three particu lar comments , I'll leave you with that , and than K you for your time .
(g) Christian Mills , an Englewood res ident , said th ank y~u for yo ur time tonight. I am also here to
talk abo ut my opposition to Council Bill 65 . My ne ighbors have covered most of this so I'll keep it brief. I will
make three ma in points . I seco nd Ms . McGo wan 's point that since July of th is year there has been a lawsu it
against the City , regard ing this subdivision and that no voter dec ision should be made while that is outstand ing .
!tis a great conflict of in terest. Secondly , th is amendme nt has been driven by one property and one property
only .. that is 2919 Soutn Og den Street . The dec ision to support th is amendment affects all of Englewood . It
potentia l'y makes the smallest lots In the City smaller , with very larg e footpr int hous es on lots that were
des ign ed fo r 700 to 900 square feet. Thirdly , Mr. Curnow , lhe owner and would be developer of that property
has mis represented himself to myse lf and other nei gh~ors on our block , to the Council, Commun ity
Development and , alarmingly , to the Arapahoe County Uislrict Court . In a compla int , dated July 11 , 2008, Mr.
Bill Curno w's company, Colorado Custom Construction , brought a lawsuit aga inst the Sity of Englewood about
this ma tter . My neighbor , Kathleen McGowan , has already outlined this case , so I wor 't belahor the detai ls. But
I will point out that it doesn 't take a lawyer to see that there is great and tremendous co r1flict of interest to make
a dec is ion while the re is someth ing outstand ing . The d'!Ci sion to uphold th is bill woul d remedy that situat ion . •
Th is conflict of interest smacks of self-dealing if it is someth ing that gets the City out from this lawsu it that it is
already unde r. So , I second Ms . McGowan in ask ing that th is decisio n be put off unt il th is lawsu it is settled . I
think tha t is the right and ju st th in~ to do , and that Is the spi rit of the law. Secondly , des pite the window ~-essing
Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 9
• that th is ame ndment is for the greater good of Eng lewood , all factual eviden ce suggests that th is is be .. ,, driven
by the p•operty owner of 2919 South Ogden Street. To give you a brief timeline , this is fa ct, the County records
show that the purch ase of property was September 2, 2005. Al that time , there were no proposals , no Study
Sessions , there were no meetlngs ... nothing that we could find , in the public records , that suggest that anyone
had asked for th is subdiv isi on exceptions for the R-1 District In late June and early July , Mr . Curnow tells David
Westtall , of the 2900 block of South Ogden Street .. and I tt,i nk a couple of gentleman on Council met with him
last week ... expressed his displeasure to Mr . Westtall a rod to myself that the City would not let him subdivide the
property . My response to him at the time was shouldn 't he have found that out before he bought that property .
It's a bas ic tenant of capitalism , the caveat... le t the buyer beware . Since that time , Mr. Curnow has been the
only one that we can find , through our searches of public records , that has as ked for this exception . The
process to get to where we are tonight has been anything but transparent. It has been driven relentlessly by Mr.
Curnow and now his attorney and incredibly , Community Development is siding with him ... a developer, instead
the Englewood citizens that are here ton ight and that signed our petition ... 68 of them . In that ne ighborhood ... !
might point out. Lastly , Mr. Curnow has misrepresented himself to my neighbors and I, Community
Development , to you on th is Council and alanningly to the Arapahoe ;aunty District Court. I'll address the most
serious first. You have a copy of this on page two of his lawsuit, item 11 , under the general allegations . It
states in 2006, prior to purchasing the property , plaintiffs agents ... Mr. Curnow and Mr. Doug Llllibrige ,
approached the City and in fact . it goes on to talk about that. In fact , you have a copy o• this as well. .. the
property was purchased in September of 2005, as I po int out, prior to any of this taking place . Why would he do
this? Why would he misrepresent the date of pure . 1e? Now he did quick claim that property but It stayed
within the same name . There is no money that changed hands . All he is doing is aligning himse lf with the
timeline that benefits Community Developme 0 This is a fallacy at best. I tell you ... saying that he purchased
something , when he dldn 't...in a lawsuit...1s either gross misrepresentation or its strikes me as petjury . He 's
say ing in a court of law that hr· 1s doing someth ing that he ~idn 't do . He either bought the property , without the
proper due diligence , which he sho uld be held accountable for or he was arrogant enough to think he coul~ bully
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or cajole us into his way into a s·1bdlvision . At the last meeting , he made a remark . He said he aseumed he
could do th is, because he does t_his in other counties . like Denver , etc . We all know the definition of the word
assume ... right? He purports himself to be a friend of Englewood , but I think the Council members that saw the
property , have that all he has done I; remove all the vegetation. he has cut down the trees ... mature trees I
might po int out...and mad~ the place a construction dump . I live di :er.tly across from this property and he has
been anything but a good neigh:ior. I ask you to think about all the Englewood signatures that you have
received that don 't want this bill to pass . And I ask ;ou to support the citizens of Englewood . I'll conclude by
just say ing ... I stand with this group of ne ighbors and the ne ighbors that signed th at petition . We have been
un ited in our opposition to this amendment and the subd ivision . We 've respec[fully come to meeti ngs ,
subm itte d letters, submitted signatures and we have come to the meetings to speak . Mr. Curnow has lied ,
bullied and he had his attorney t~reaten a lawsuit and now he is su ing us to get this done . I'm asking you to
remember who yo u support, ,iho voted y~u into office , who you represen t...and that is the citizens of
Englewood and ii is not a developer who is :eying to risk our home values for his own gain . Thank yo u.
(h) Shannon Sturgen sa id I live in District 1 in Englewood . I had called Joe and Jim and th e City
Cler k last week about a probl em I have been havi ng with garbage , because my garbage company no lo nger
serv ices the Distri ct 1 area . The City Clerk 's Office faxed me a copy of the list of garbage places tha t are
licensed in the City of Englewood . It wa s a list of 10 bus inesses . Out of all 10 bus inesses , I think the re were
only 4 that did res ide nti al and 2 of the 4 do not rio , I guess , District 1 ... whi ch I th ink is kind of annoy isg .
Bec ause they are the ones tha t aren 't as ki ng for these extra fees, that the 2 that are go ing to be ab le to 11,; my
,,rea , are ask in g for . I either have to pay $25.00 to Eagle Waste Management to get the ir garoa,e cans , In
order for me lo llave their garbage serv ice or I have to pay $25 .00 lo Waste Managem~nt for ih~m to come and
pick up my garbage . Because Camelback , that dues res ident ial , does not do my section of Englewood . And I
can 't remember what Jim 's was ... it was Pro someth ing and they don 't do tha t sec:ion of Englewood . So , I th ink
it is ki nd of funny that the City of Englewood can license things and it is o,,ly 0 00d lor certain areas . And so ,
bas ica lly , people who live in my area , District 1, are second class citizens and have to p3y $25.00 extra , plu s
gas surcharges that both of these 2 com pan ies are charg ing me that the other 2 companies , that service
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Englewood , don 't ch arge . So , I think that you know, wher. the City of Englewood puts int o place the Code ,
which says that we have to have weekly garbage picked up al our house , is now kind of like p,•ni shing me
because whateve 1 the co mpa ny wa s ... whoever brou ght them out afterwards and wh atevc r ... is now putting me
into th~ position whe re I have to pay extra gas service charge , $25.00 either fo r a new garbage can or for
Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 10
adm,n ist •a tion fees to get my garbage pic ked up . I think lhat is an unfa ir burden on people in my area . And it is
kind of, bas ica ll y, a mo nop ol y too of these 2 companies to overcharge people in my area In order to get our
garbage picked up . And then ... commenling on the recycli r:g place ... since I live right in that area too ... we
already had extra traffic in that area ... thanks to whatever the RTD place is now called . With the buses com ing
on Raritan , Tejon and Zun i. .. so you know you have all th is ex t,a traffic co min g on ... you have print ing
co mpao ies in the area ... you have Prem iere Garbage that is right next to the greenbelt pa rk. So you the big
vehicles and dies els that are in that area ... that block traffic , like w:t h Rusy Bee that Is right on the corner of
Ba ker and Tejon . So , whenever the trucks come In to del iver paper to them ... they block ::·affic , since It is one
lane l>Jth ways . Tnen the glass place that is farther down , closer to the Fi re Departme ,11, that they had diesel
trucks pulling in there too to block the road . Then you have the Prem ier Waste Dispos al people right by the
greanbelt that gn in and out , across the street and over to them that are block ing with tl 'air trucks and then like I
said , with all the RTD ... so I don 't see ... lfyou are go ing to be having 300 diese l trucks In that area in one day ,
how that Is go ing to help prn~erty values or even the traftic situation in their. That is rid ic ulous . I mean we
already have diese l trucks that par k there at night waiting •o r that recycling plant to open up on like Wesley and
down the street. So I am just th ink ing the City really needs to thi r,k about whether they approve that about the
traffic situation , because one lane on Zuni , both lanes ... one lane on Tejon , both ways ... one lane on Ra1itan ,
both lanes . Just stop signs In some of the areas . I mean Zuni and Tejon ... you go zipping straight down and
there are problems a:,eady with speeders in that area . I don '\ ,ee the.. And then the last th ing I have to bring
up is ... I called Code Enforcement about a property thal is righ t next to the property that the City of Englewood
bough t... that is on the corner of Zuni and Wesley . I had called them because they had blocked my house with
the ir ,efuse from their yard there . It took 2 months for the City Code to take care of it and I had ta lked to half of
the City management after a week after say ing it was still then.,. It took 2 mont i1s to get that taken care of. So , if
I wanted to walk on that block, I had to either risk twisting my ankle or stepping cut of the way because of the
stuff. If I call u~ Code Enforcem ,1nt and the City of Englewood about a problem ... l think that It should bn taken
care of within a reasonable amoont of time ... not 2 months . And, in the past I had talked to Sanchez about these
things and he got on my case saying I was nitp ick ing when I was like bleeding because bushes were
overgrowing on the sidewalk that I walk on and I got scratched up . So , you know , I kind of feel a little frus trate d
right now with the City of Englewood . Thanks .
Mayor Woodward said thank you .
8. Co mmunications, Proclamat::::,ns and Appointments
There were no co mmunications, ~rrocla ma ti ons or appo intments .
9. Consent Agenda
COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER PENN SECONDED , TO APPROVE
CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS S (a) (I), (Ii), (Iii), (Iv) and 9 (c) (I).
(a) Approval of Ordinances on First Reading
(1) COUNC IL BILL NO . 74 , INTRODUCED BY C0UNC IL MEMBER MOORE
A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITI.E 4, CHAPTER 4, OF THE ENGLEWOOD MUN ICIPAL CODE
2000 , WITH THE ADDITION OF A NEW SECTION 21, ENTITLED 'OFFICERS OF CORPORATIONS ,
MEMBERS OF PAR TNERSHIPS , AND LIMITED LIABILITY COMPAN IE S',
(ii) COUNC IL E',ILL NO . 75 , INTRODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER .~OO RE
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A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AUTHORIZING AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT ENTIT ~E D "U.S.
DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR :J.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY JOINT FUNDING AGREEMENT FOR
WATE R RESOURCES INVESTIG ATIONS .' •
(i ii) COUNC IL EIILL NO . 76, INTR ODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER MOO RE
E~glewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 11
• A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 4, CHAPTER 4, SECTION 16 , OF THE: ENGLEWOOD
MUNICIPAL CODE 2000, ENTITLED "NOTICES SENT BY MAIL'.
(iv) COUNCIL BILL NO. 77, INTRODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE
A BILL FOR A~! 0•11NANCE AMENDING TITLE 4, CHAPTER 4, SECTION 4 , SUBSECTION 4, AND ADDING
A NEW SUBSECTiON 8, "LOCATION GUIDE' TO THE ENGLEWOOD MUNICIPAL CODE 2000 .
(b) Approv al of Ordinances on Second Reading
T here were no add iti onal items suomitted for approval on second reading . (See Agenda Item 11 .)
(c) Resolutions and Motions
(i) RESOLUTION NO. 76, SERIES OF 2008
A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING CHANGES TO THE CITY OF ENGLEWOOC.'S INVESTMENT POLICY PER
ORDINANCE 45 , SERIES OF 1995.
Vote results:
Motlnn carried .
Ayes: Council Members Penn , Mccaslin, Moore , Woodward , Jefferson ,
Wilson , Oakley
Nays : None
• 10. Public Hearing Item•
(a) Mayor Woodward said this is a Public Hearing to gather input on Council Bill No . 69 , amending
the Unified Development Code pertaining to flags in the South Broadway Bus iness Improvement District.
COUNCIL MEMBER WILSON MOVED, I .ND CCIUNCIL MEMBER JEFFERSON SECONDED, TO OPEN THE
PUBLIC HEARING TO GATHER INPUT ON COUNCIL BILL NO. 69 , AMENDING THE UNIFIED
DEVELOPMENT CODE PERTAINING TO FLAGS IN THE SOUTH BROADWAY BUSINESS IMPROVEMENT
DIST RICT.
Ayes: Council Members Penn , Mccaslin, Moore, Woodward , Jefferson ,
Wilson , Oakley
Nays : None
Wot:on carried and the public hearing opened .
All witnesses were duly sworn.
Director White said th is is a Council Bill for a proposed ordinance amending the section of the Unified
Development Code pertaining to flags. As you know from first read ing , the BID has requested the displaying of
flags on certain days during the month to announce the event ti.at they are calling a sale day. As you are also
aware. the Code currently allows only the display of flags of cities. stales and nations. So, in order to
accomriodale lhe BID request, an amendment to the exi sting UDC provisions, dealing with flags , is necessary.
The Planning and Zoning Commission did hear th is Item back In September of lhis year and did recomrrand a
cot•ple of minor changes to the ordinance. I should mention that the ordinance as drafted , and as contained in
your packet , does not allow the type of flag that the BID actually wants to display. There Is an image of that flag
contained with in your packet. We have drafted th is ord inance without the benefit of th is Image and we are try ing
to be very broad in giving the BID latitude in displaying flags What would be necessa,y , In order to
accommodate the flag that is being proposed by the BI D, is to amend the ord inance on second reading . There
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was a lot of discussio n about other bus inesses oulsid e the BID disr,laying ... or being able to display for 'sale "
signs. And , as noted in the Council Communication , there is the ability of a non -BID business to dis play a short-
term advertis ing sign , which could be a "sale ' today type sign , for up 10 six, two week increments during the
year. A permit is required for that ty pe of sign and th ey are li mited to wind ow or wall signs. There are also
Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 12
li mi tation on coverage and size of those signs . That bas ically ,.co ncludes my brief presentation on what this
ordin ance is about. I would be happy lo ans wer any question,; yo u may ha ve .
Mayor Woodward sa id are there any questions for Alan at th is time? There were none .
Bob Laughlin sa id I have a business at 3445 South Broadway . I am just bringing a full size copy ... a mock-
up ... of what we are talking about for our banner ... to display one day a month . We ha ve approximately 45 flag
poles on Broad way Iha: we display the American flag , through tho Lions Cl ub , I thin , for 11 holidays a year . We
have been using the American flag on our Saturday sale ... just to create some kind of recognition when peo ple
drive by ... that there is something going on . Thal is why we would like to use the banner that we have designed
here, that says "sale" day . It just doesn't get the point across , if it doesn 't have the words on It. So , I thin k that
is all I have to say about it. We can leave this. if you need to look at it a little more .
Mayor Woodward said ... just a quick question Bob . We have a picture of the banner here . Is this dimension
correct ... 24 inch width by 36 inches ? Mr. Laughlin said I bel ieve that is wh at we have designed ... yes . That is
what this comes out to . Mayor Woodward said okay, thank you .
Council Meraber Wilson said as I understand this ... ii was going to be stra ight across . Was there a picture ? Mr.
Laughlin said I thought the pictures were in your packets . I can distribute some .
Mr. Laughlin said we had hoped to go straight out from the building , but I don't be li eve that the ex isting flag pole
holders are strong enough to be able to hang them horizontally . So , we will probably hang them at an angle like
a typ ical flag .
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Council Memoer Wilson said I am supportive of this banner. I feel the BID has done a tremendous amount of
good for that area and they have worked together with the City and I feel that you do need something that •
actually says something to identify the sale .
Mayor Woodward said do you have anything else to add , Mr. Laugh lin? Mr. Laughlin said I don 't think so . We
will leave it up to your good judgment , but we are trying to make ii tasteful and uniform , in an effort to bring more
attention to tha t section of Broad way ... to helo the economy by collecting more sales tax . Thank you .
Mayor Woodward and Coun c , Member Wilson said thank you .
Mayor Woodward asked if there was anyone else who wanted to speak during the Pub lic Hearing . There was
no one .
COUNCIL MEMBER JEFFERSON MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER WILSON SECONDED, TO CLOSE
THE PUBLIC HEARING TO GATHER INPUT ON COUNCIL BILL NO . 69, AMENDING THE UNIFIED
DEVELOPMENT CODE PERTAINING TO FLAGS IN THE SOUTH BROADWAY BUSINESS IMPROVEMENT
DISTRICT .
Ayes : Council Members Penn , Mccaslin. Moore , Woodward, Jefferson ,
Wilso n, Oakley
Nays : None
Motion carried and the public hearing closed .
Mayor Woodward sa id I would like to open it up for discussion right now.
Mayor Woodward said I have three items that I would like to bring up ... that ma ybe between Ala n and Dan ... can
be addres sed . I know that the BID originally , when they originally had th is idea , ii was the Ide a to have "sale"
day on tha t... what I will call pennant , or flag , or whatever we want to call it. And ii is my understanding , al lhe
Public Hearing , somehow nobod y showed up and that was not conveyed to P & z or was not totally clear. And
there was not a picture like th is or, at tha t time , the paper photograph of the sign . So , there are three items that •
I want to suggest on this and I would like to see what the rest of Council thinks about ii . A: wou ld be to add
lettering . which was in the or iginal staff sugge stion ... le ttering th at is specific ·,nci ii says ·sale " today . Only those
two words .. ."sale toda y" ... together with the logo of the BID . My second item would be to put It anywhere in the
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Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 13
City , ava ilable for any bus in e,s, So , that may mean ... not only that it would be the BID logo ... it might be
Brookrldge Shopping Center , . .;sociation logo , if there Is such a thing and I don 't know that there is . If there
is n't, there would be no logo . There woul d not be a logo for a pri va te bus iness . It would just be "sale " today and
blank . And the third item I would want to aJd is what the BID had originally done ... and the original store owner
who had been doing th is for some time was doing th is the last bus iness day , th e last bus iness Saturday of every
month and only that day during the month . So , I would like to su ggest that we change what we have , by add ing
these three Items amend ing th is and go ing forward from there . So, I would lik e to open that up for discussion ,
as ldr as those ideas .
Council Member Mccaslin said well I guess . since I kind of took the ball last time and said that I th ink that
people south , that weren 't part of the BID , were kind of be ing left out. I would like to see them open ii up to the
bus iness owners there . I appreciate that. And Ted , I eat at the Breakfast Queen at le"! two or three times a
week so I will not forget your area . But I still want to make sure that the rest of Englewood is ... and I appreciate
those amendments you have added ... l think those are fair . My big concern was the people In the south area
that weren 't part of the BID . Because if I was a new owner coming in with a business and I didn 't know even
how to start a BID ... and they didn 't come to me and I wanted to do something ... al least it gives me t.,e
opportunity to hang a sign now . So, I appreciate that. Mayor Woodward said okay .
Mayor Woodward sa id is there any comments on the lettering that says "sa le toda y". Quite frankly, I see nn
reason to have a fl.1g up there unless it says that.
Counc il Member Oakley said after sitting through the long discuss io n, and reading the minutes today as a
refresher, I am of the opinion that is why we decided to have a Public Hearing , was so the BID could come to us
and give us their preference . Because it was said !t;at... the way the ordinance stands now you could not say
·sale day· on the banner . And th at was what we were going to try to get decided tonight. Is that where we are
• atornot?
City Attorney Brotz man said if I can help a lltlle ... on Council Bill 65 , there was a Council short-term request.
Ana w~ prepared alternative language for you . That is what you are talk ing about here . You are at a Pub lic
Hearing and there is no second reading ton igh t So , what we are talking about is preparing alternate language ,
similar to what you rece ive d on r ·e other bill .
Mayor Wood ward sai d correct... so what I am try in g to find is ... if there is co nsensus among Coun cil to come
forward with my suggestions ... my three ad ditions or something else .
Council Member Penn said I would like to speak to that before we make some suggestions . I really support
this ... l think th is is a great Id ea for BID . With what Bob said ... l really want everyone else to have the
op portunity to do this . But the third thing you did , was you put it on the last Saturday of every month . And I
agree with that, but I think some ti mas there may be ott,er times when they may need to display that and I think
there should be a proces s for them to be able to come back and say we have Englewood Days coming for a
week ... is there any way we can put this In? I don 't know if that would happen , but I just th ink we should put
so meth in g in th ere that would allow them to come back and maybe do it an other time during the month . That
would be my only suggestion .
Coun cil Mer,,ber Mccaslin sa id that is a good question . How come it's just the last Saturday of each month ?
Macy 's ad ve rt ises every day for a sale ... l'm like ... oh my Gou .. M;.c y·s . Macy 's ... lh ey advertise every single day
fo r Macy's . So tell me the history of w.,y it's just the last Satcrday . Council Member Jeffer,on said that is wha t
the BID feels would be most effective .
Council Member Penn said I think the consistenc of having the sa le on the last Saturday of every month ... and
once they get that consistency I think their customers would get •Jse1 to that. But , again , I state that
maybe ... there may be on e or two othe r times during the year that tney might want to dis play that flag .
• Council Mem ber Jeffers on said I w0eld agree and I generally fee l that we should allow some flexi bility to allow
for the bus iness owners to promote thei r businesses .
Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 14
Coun ci l Member Penn sa id al least have a way fo, them lo come in and re~"est lhat Council Member
Jefferson said yes ... without having to £0 through th is type of proce ss
Mayor Woodward sa id I th ink Dress for Les~ j; the one who started this and they started it some time ago . The y
did It through word of mou th and handing out fl)'ers . They have been very successfu l with this and word has
!;Jtten around . And I think when the rest of the BIO got Inv Jiv ed and got th e idee l~at th is may be
something ... and I thin k it is a part of branding Englewood . I ca n certainly soe it a year or two years from
now ... the possibility of throughout th e metro a••a ... hey, EnglewQoo goes on sale the last Saturda y of th e
month . It is the type of th ing, in my mind , that 1s pro-ecc,nc ml~ do·ve,opmen! .. bringir f l people into our
commun ity to purchase th ings . Now Dan . ccr ect me if I'm wrong , if someoody wanted to come in ... if somebody
wanted to do this flag mo re than once ... on some other day ... on o Monday ... on a Friday ... whatever. .. at other
times ... they could come in, just like they do for the banner goiny over Broadway ... ! think they could ev en go in
on permitting , couldn 't they? City Attorney Brotzman sa id not curro ,uy. I think that is what Randy is asking for
is a mech an ism to do something sim ilar. Council Mamber Pe nn saio I uon't want to stop this because of th at
But I think if we allow them ... say ... that they have one day in the year that they might want to put !hi s out
extra ... I thin k we should afford them the ava il abil ity to it. But I won 't stop this from going through tonight
because of that. Mayor Woodward said It won 't go through ton ig ht...we are Just having a discuss io n. Mr. Penn
said I know ... but I mean just to continue on .
Mayor Wo.,dward said I th ink part of the discuss ion and the concern of Plann in g and Zoning was that they didn 't
want someth ing that would get out of hand . And I th lnk ... years ago ... posslbly things like sidewalk sales may
have been a problem . City Attorney Brotzman said we can use the same mechanism that we use to approve
sidewalk sales ... we can draft language on ap provin~ additional days .
Council Member Mccaslin said can I ask for clarification on that? Hov. can ... if I am a business owner and I
•
want to have a sale today ... how is that going to get out of hand ? I mean ... I'm going to ad vertise a "sale today " •
and then I'm going to have one Friday and then I'm going to have one next Tuesday .
Mayor Wood wa rd said it isn't about tha t. What this is abo ut is hav , .. g this part ic ular sign hanging ou t in front of
:~el r bus iness . Mr. Mccaslin sa id ok ay . Mr. Woodward said if you want to have a sale today and you adve~ise
In the newspaper or on the rad;~ ... you can do tha t
Council Member Mccaslin sa id right...bu t what I am saying ... you sa id something abo ut it getting out of hand .
And I'm just wondering ... Mayor Woodward sa id no ... I'm saying the signs ... these flags hang ing out or ... Mr.
Mccaslin said ... too many days in the week or ... Mr . WoodwRrd said different days and it starts los ing th e effect
wou ld be my .. .
Council Mem be r Oakley sa id yes , from a practi cal standpo int , as I see it... and I'm jusl one person ... for these lo
be effect ive , they have to be displayed on a limited bas is, because oth erwise they are going to become
commonplace . If yo u dri ve down Broadwa y one day of the week and there are all of these yellow flags with
"sale " written on lhem ... il is go ing to get your attention . But if they are there all the time ... after awhile nobody is
goin g to pa y any attention to them .
Council Member Mccaslin said so It's more for effect then ... okay . I mean that is just a qu est ion ... when you say
it is out of hand ... l'm telling you ... there are businesses that have sales every single day . So , I am trying to
unde rs tan d the dilemma of go ing ... some companies can do a sale every day and we are only going to allow
them on lhe last Salurcay of the week ... I mean of lhe month . I am just trying to understand it and why It would
be a problem .
Cou ncil Member Wilson said they are just try ing to bri ng peop le to lhe City ... at that po int... and it is branding and
it is con sistent Bui the oth er thing ... Coun cil Mem ber Jefferson said the business inside the BID is free to have
a sale on any other day , just like any bus iness would . Ms . Wilson said yes . Mr . Mccaslin sa id right. .. the y just •
can 't advertise it. Mr. Jeffe rson said they j ust can't have this sig n. Mr . Mccaslin said oh , okay ... I get it .
Council Member Oakley said obviously lhis is a subject thal we are all interested in and we ha ·,e had a lot of
discussion about it in one session and we are beg inning to do the same thing here . I might r1a ke a suggest io n
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Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 15
that we try to stick to what the BID had asked for ... the one da y a month and the for "sale " on the sign and then if
that goes good and the y want to come back to us with something else later they can always do that.
Mayor Woodward said I would like to add ... the rest of the City . Mr. Oakley said oh , yes ... I have no problem
with that. Mr. Woodward said okay
Mayor Woodward said I th ink Dan was say ing something about...and I think you were inlerrupled ... about how
you could handle ... you could draft some language ... which we would see at the next meeting and we could
either accept it or not. Ci ty Attorney Brotzman said that is correct.
Council Member Wilson said I think the important thing is to move this forward , with the holidays coming . So
they can start using this sign right away .
Council Member Moore said I actually have difficulty with us mandating ... not mandating ... but dictating
marketing material and specifying which day of the month it makes sense . I'm struggling with how to ... I fully
want to accommodate ... I respect the Bl D's formation and their effort and I want to accommodate this . I'm
having trouble when we extend beyond ... and now we are just making general. .. the City 's stepping in and just
making general rules about marketing In the City . I find myself uncomfortable with that. So, I'm actually, oddly,
more comfortable if we narrowing address this towards the BID . Again , in my mind , it is recognition of the effort
and the backing of that organization . Now , the more we tr':e off some of these restrictions ... the more we are
defining marketing material for the businesses in the City and that doesn 't feel rig ht to me eilher . So , I struggle
with that. I can 't tell you why Saturday has to be the right day . Maybe the right marketing thing is Thursdays .
I'm not. .. from my Council seat... dictating what's the right day of the month . So , I lean more towards ... although ,
again ... l hate to add more administrative burden to our staff and the resulting budgetary claims that that creates
but , I would rather we have basic guidelines where we are saying ... here is the ballpark of what is
•
appropriate ... individually review these requests and make sure they fit. And then we could say ... okay ... this flag
on this day , every Saturday, is fine . When we start writing in that you can write "sale today" and you can hang it
on Saturdays in our City laws ... f don 't know . I feel like f am overstepping my bounds .
Council Member Jefferson said I gen erally agree and I would say that , also , by allowing for more flexibility , I
think that just helps the private markets a· well . By allowing them flexibility to decid e what is best for their
businesses . I didn't think we were that fa, 0ft when we started off just saying a BID approved nag can be flown
by a BID business . That's where we we,e originally and I'm not sure if you are kind of stepping back towards
that or if that means you are considerin~ somelhing else .
Council Member Moore said Joe , to be honest , I am not completely sure . I would be more comfortable if we did
just obey the principles and say these are our , kind of, three guiding principles and then we want it executed at
an administrative level . Council Member Jefferson said okay . I just kind of heard l~st time that we didn 't want to
allow too much flexibility ... that was kind of the feedback I was getting and now we are kind of on the opposite
end of the spectrum ... right? Where we are saying ... hey , maybe we are doiog too much .
Council Member Moore said not exactly . Because , if we had a disc ussion about principles , I would still be
strongly advocating .,. I don 't want anything that results in this becoming just a routine display across the City
randomly . I like lhe Bl D's ... I like what they are trying to do in this case . There Is a unity , they wanl to come out
in numbers ... and th is con sistent message ... th at I can sit here and say that makes sense . At the same time , in
defining those principles , I want to be clear that I am not looking to have these banners all over the
City ... everyc ', gets to chose which day of the month they use . I am not sure exa ctly where a debate on those
princi pl es './!' ·Id come out. I just think thDt that would be ... we probably would be pretty close in terms of what
you have dE \ ·.ibed ... but I don 't like putting "sale today " in ihe City laws .
Council Mer ,sr Wilson sa id so, what you are saying is , let 's approve this and then if other people want to come
•
and do som · ,ing similar, it will be handled individually ... administratively . Counc il Member Moore said yes . I
would like to ,1y ... if we could turn around and say that we would be comfortable ... that the process was put in
pla ce ... that , 1,1ft would approve this ... now how do we back that up to a principle based lev el and say the
guidelines Co,. ncil is giving is that it hands over that administrative decisio n ... needs to say what... to adequately
accom mod1 ~:! this .. Liut also restrict abuses that we mig ht anticipate .
Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 16
Counc il Member Jefferson said I guess I'm just not sure where to take that. .. as far as you know ... I'm interested
in getting ,hese flags up as soon as possible to help our partners in our community . So , whatever the rest of
Counc il is feel in g, as far as what can we do to get this moving along in that direction ,
Cou ncil Member Penn said I will withdraw my need to do it another day , so we can ma ke it good .
Council Member Moore said Mayor , do we have time at the Study Session next week to ... well , all right , Joe has
Just put on the table .,. whatever it takes to get this done ... fair ... no , no ... I agree with that. My thought would
be ... lf Counc il is okay with this principles based approach ... comblned with the administrative discretion of
Co mmun ity Development. .. can we try to squeeze some time in at the Study Ses sion next week? Mayor
Woodward sa id we don 't hav e a Study Session ne xt week , we have an Execut ive Session on personnel mailers
the whole time .
Counc il M, nber Wilson sa id can we move forw ard on Just this one and discu ss other busines ses later?
Mayor w~adward sa id we can have Dan come forward with the languag a that we are talking about.. •.hat would
come forward at our ne xt regular me eting ... with a pick and choose ... ! tt,ink.
Council Member Moore sa id the problem is one apprcac h modifies this language to start inserting frequency
and banner language ins ide of here .. , the other one Is more of a different approach . Perhaps , you can still give
us both Dan ... I don't know . City Attorney Brotzman said we should be able to . Mr . Moore said
okay ... alright... so let's proceed with , bnically, the approa ch where we have specifi c language to perm it
this ... whatever the general consensus was ., .and then a second alternative that would step back , give higher
level guidance from Council with an administrative procedure .
City Attorney Brotzman said you will see that language and you will have ii on second read ing .. , and
t~en ... much like the presentat ion tonight...if they want to come back and kind of do a closing argument , since
the hearing is closed and the testimony is over ... much like they did on 65 ... you could do the same thing . Mayor
Woodward said okay .
But , Council Member Wilson said , can we approve th is at the next meeting ... on second reading? Several
comme nt; were made at once . But , City Attorney Brotzman said , ts you change ii yo u have to keep extend ing
ii to one more read ing , .. thal's the prob lem .
Council Member lefferson sa id that's what I'm sa yi ng ... with the process ... we kee p pushing bac k by having all
these different issues in front of us ,
Council Member Moore sa id no one is support ing this current languag e. That's what I am hear in g ... right? Th is
doesn 't allow ·sale today '. Coun ci l Member Jefferson said th e' is what I was trying to modify last tim e ... was to
allow for "sale today" and get us furth er along in the process . ~o . I am just at a loss ... just as kin g you
guys , .. hey , what will allow It to move forwa rd today?
Counc il Member Mccaslin said I th ink what Jim proposed .. Coun cil Member Moore said we can 't vote
today ... it has to wait un til se co nd read ing for us to take an y actio n. So , we are fa ced with ... next week Is the
only time we can propcse any changes ... and I think there is a 100% chan ce ii wi ll be change d from it's cu rrent
form . So , the re fore , we are in effect... at first read ing next week ... rather in two weeks .
Council Member Wilson said then that leaves it at a month and I think that is too long . I mean can 't we go
forwa rd with ,u st the BID , because th ey are the ones who came to us?
•
•
C:•y Attorne y Brotzman sai d the problem is to move forward and act ually approve it on second read ing , you are
ar,prcJving it.., not as their sign currenily is ... but as the Planning and Zon ing recomm snded it from th ei r meeting . • s,, lhey can put up a BID flag ... but it can 't say "sale today '.
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Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 17
Council Member Moore said there is no way for us to ... we have lo follow th e ord inance process for lhis ... righl?
City Attorney Brotzman said right. Mr . Moore sa id the current rules prohibit ii .. it Is just the nature of
government... this keeps us from doing things too quickl y and being accused of not go ing through due process .
Council Member Jefferson said we could have allowed it to go forward today , had my amendment passed . Is
that correct? City Attorney Brotzman said correct .
Council Member Moore said we weren 't near consensus at that po int... but that Is correc t
Mayor Woodward sa id is there something we could agree on ?
Council Member Jefferso r. sa id but now we are in consensus that we want to allo w the BID to use th is sign ... ls
that correct?
Mayor Woodward said that is what I am trying to find out.
Council Member Mccaslin said not only the BID . Coun ci l Member Jefferson said what 1s that ? Mr. McCas ll n
said I like what Jill said ... not only the BID ... yes , I want the BID to use ii, bul t also the availability of other people
lo use it.
Council Member Jefferson said everybody is okay with allow ing the BID to use th is correct?
Mayor Woodward said the lettering .. ."sale today" ... the question is ... is lhal one th ing that there Is a consensus
here that we can agree on? Several Council members sa id yes . Mr. Woodward sa ld ... jusl that one Item ?
•
Council Member Moore sa id it depends on the limitations placed around them . I am generally support ive of
ii ... yes ... but I want to make sure ... i can 't say I give it full support without knowing if we have packaged it
correctly .
Mayor Woodward sa id the three items , to repeal my three ite ms ... and then if you can stale your concerns and
Dan you ca n pick that up . N~mber one was anywhere in the City , number two was the las! business Saturday
of any month only and number three was lettering that slated ·sale today· and noth ing more other than the logo
or what has been proposed here .
Council Member Moore said Jim, let me ask ... cont in uing that list , were there any concerns about the 15 square
foot size in th is, as opposed to the 6 square feet they are asking fo r? Do you measure two side s of th e flag?
Mayor Woodward said . from what I understood from P & Z ... and I ment ioned th is to Dan today when twas
talking to him ... I was going to suggest...15 square feP.t is huge ... l mean , that is big ... that is go ing lo be
dragging over the sidewalk , people are going to be going through a curtain ... Counc il Member Moore sa id th ey
are only req ues ting 2 by 3 ... 6 square feet. Several Council members were speaking at once . City Attorn ey
Brotzman sa id that they can advertise on both sides is the key ... and we will work that out.
Counci l Member Moore said okay ... I want to be clear we don 't end up with 15 square foot on one side . So if 1t 1s
understood that that is what that means ..
Mayor Woodward said I th ink we can go with 12 ... 1 was going to suggest chang ing that 15 to 12 and we are sl1II
covere d.
Council Member Moore sa id if we do that , can, ... make it clea r ... that is measuring both sides of th e flag? That
is what I would suggest.
Mayor Woodward said that is bigger than our American flags that we hang up for Lions .
• Co uncil Memt,ar Moore sa id okay. So , I will co ns ider that a fourth on your list. Mayor Wooaward sai d oka y.
Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 18
Mayor Woodward sa id John , specifically your concerns .. Council Member Moore sa id Dan ... just bring a blank
sheet of pape r. There was laughter. He said to be honest...l 'm not sure ... beyond being able to say ... agree ing
on three or four pr inciples to guide the administrative rev iew process ... I'm not sure what 11 needs to be . I think it
would need to be ... well , pick ing off of what P & Z wa s trying to do ... I think it would be someth ing along the lines
of limited to Bus iness Improvement Districts , City approved Bus iness Improvement Districts ... and pe rhaps it
would include ... to the extent the flags are going to incl ude the language other than emblem and title of the
organization ... such as 'sale toda y", that they would be limited to ... we would define some time limit.
Mayor Woodward sa id okay . Again , coming out of cor:imercial real estate and knowing about strip shopping
centers ... they hav e a market ing assoc iation that goe~ along with that. Such as ... Brookridge Shopping
Center. .. I don 't know if they have an assoc iatio n ... they may . Or someth ing over at Centennial. .. may . And that
would be sim ilar to a BID ... where they , as bus inesses , pay for advertis ing together and different th ings like that.
These , again be ing strip ... meaning that they are ent6•ed from the exterior, into the front door and ou t aga in .
Counc il Member Moore sa id I just think that the more we talk about ii that way ... we are just moving to saying
th is is just a normal , perm iss ible me a s of advertis ing your bus iness . And this is something that we have
deliberately not permitted in the past. And in trying lo accommodate what is, arguably , a narrow request , we are
turni ng around ... we just keep broaden in g it ... to be fairer ... we keep broaden ing ii and now we are just go ing to
ma ke it another permiss ible form of advert ising ... once we do that, : can't say why Saturday is better than
Sunday or Tuesday ... il's the slippery slope issue . Mayor Woodward sa id okay .
Council Member Wilson sa id so we can 't just apprcve BIDS ... we have to make it...1 mea n to approve this faster ,
can we just deal with this sign and look at the broader view later?
City Attorney Brotzman said you won't speed up ... you are going to have alternat ive s, but you have to
•
understand, you are going to be making an amendment ... It looks like , no matter what. So the process is going •
to take the same amount of time .
Counc il Me mbe r Moore sa id let me ... actually , let me plan what Jill is getting at. In Dan 's eyes , wo are still stuck
with first and second readings yet to go . One approach would be to narrowly put th is in ... narrowing permit this
in the ordinance and get ii passed on first and second reading . But , for me to agree with that approach ... for
instance ... ! am go ing to hold it to ... we are only perm itting In the BID circ umstance . I know ... if we are go ing to
start talking about broa dening it...l am going to start talking about th e other principle based issues . So , if
Coun ci l really wants to say ... we want this as quick as pcssible ... l'm will ing to say ... as long as we very narrowly
write to th is one and com e back to the broader issue ... I'm okay wit h that. The moment we start broaden ing it in
this fir st go around ... I'm go ing to push for my v~rsio n of ii, as well . An d that is what bogs us do wn.
Counc il Member Wilson said th e th ing is too ... no one else is comi ng to us and wanted to do anyth ing . So ,
becau se the BID has taken th is time and come to us and shown us something and hav e a protocol. .. that we
should try to work with them ... when they are going to pay for half of our Christmas decora tio ns , buying bike
ra ck s ... you know ... really help ing the City grow positively and pedestrian frie ndly downtown .. Counc il Member
Jefferson said I agre<, ... let's not co nvo lute the Iss ue , with other issues that may be imp ortant as well to
discuss ... and I would be happy lo discuss those in the future . But we do have a very narrowly tailored reque st
and ii just seems that , as a pa;mer to them , that we should be as accommodating as possible . That is what I
was try ing to do last time with my amendme nt. And that Is what I was trying to focus on and tha t is, again , what
I am trying lo focus on ... is saying , hey , let's try to be accommodating with our partners here .
Coun cil Member Penn sa id I agree , but as it is writte n, they wouldn 't even be able to put "sal e today" on th ere.
So , it's still go ing to take awh i!•, to get ii corrected . But I understand ... yes , we could pass ii, but they st ill won 't
be able to put any signs up .
Coun cil Member Moore said no , no ... we would do what we had to , to pe rmi t th is very limited situation . And get •
it done as fast as the approval pro ce ss all ows us . What we would be do ing is deferring all th e other associated
debates that go wi th it.
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Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 19
Council Member Mccasli n said deferring ... so they are still go ing to be brought up ? Mr. Moore said as long as
Counc il wants to kee p push ing them ... Mr . Mcc asl in sa id absolutely , absolutely . Mr. Penn said I agree... Mr.
Moore sa id I am will ing to move forward , if we can work with wh at Jim proposed , as long as you are willing to
narrow .. Mayor Woodward sa id from anywhere ... eliminate anywhere in the City . Mr. Moo re sa id right now we
wi ll just do it.. Mr. Penn sa id if we want to get th is through , let's just get it through and then we will come back .
Mayor Woodward sa id what I would suggest is that we let Dan bring forward these mod ifications and maybe
they can go in the packet next week ... in this week's packet as a sample ... lt's one th ing . So , we get to see ii al
least.
Counc il Member Wilson sa id would th is be written up as Bus iness District 1)1pe of thing or ... I mean how will it be
written :o just specify one ent ity? Counc il Member Moore sa id we shou ld still be able to ... I think ... the City
approved Bus iness Improvement Dislricl...that's in there . I'd like to propose ... aga in, what I said last week ... bu l,
make 3 B number 4 ... get ii off, out of the flag and I don't know ... I mean if we ~clually then use flag's , number
4 ... lhat's fine ... I don 't know ... Jim may have sa id banner earlier ... I'm not surd . But number 4 would basi cally
still stay with City approv ed Business Improvement Dislricls ... ll mited In size to 12 square feet on a two sided
basis ... limited to display on Saturday ... whatever the Saturday was ... and would permit the language ... it would
be perm.s,;ble to have the BID 's emblem , 'sale today " on there . So , we just very narrowly accommodate this
situation ... get ii go ing and then com o back and approach it more hol istica lly . So , that's the language we r,e ed
to see for the fir st order.
Mayor Woodward said so we are complete with that. Are th ere any other rema rks regarding that?
Council Member Oakley said I wm lld support getting ii moving . Once we get something going , I couldn 't
imagine us ... if Brookridge or Centennial would come to us a~d wan t the same thing ... that we wouldn 't let them
•
do II. II would just be the Individuals ... and we wi'I have to address It as It comes by . But al least this gets
something going .
Mayor Woodward said yes . Well , and to address Randy 's po int... if the BID came and sa id we want to put up
the flags on Englewood Days ... we would probably allow that.
Council Member Penn said I agree . Le t's get th is through and then let's come ba ck and we can visi t it as a
Council and hop efully we can make some mod ifications ... after we gel this set...gel things rolling .
Mayor Woodwa rd said okay . So , does that complete the discuss io n? Okay , we will move on .
11 . Ordinances, Resolution and Motions
(a) Approval of Ordinances on First Read ing
(i) Dire cto r Fonda presented a recommendat ion from the Ut ility Department to adopt a bill
for an ord inan ce authori zin g a se wer rale incre ase . He said we have gone over th is with the Waler and Sewer
Board and with the Council al a Study Ses sion . The inc reases for the sewer rates are , pr incipally , to pay for th e
increase in the bonu payments that co me due in 2010 along with cap ital imp rove ments that we have identified at
th e Wastewater Plant. In add iti on , we wi ll have additional op erating expens~. princi pally due to methanol that
we will have to purcha se 10 meet new requirements , with the add itio nal plant processes that are com ing online
as a result of the last four years of construction . The proposed increases are 8% in 2009, 8% in 2010, and 8%
in 201 1.
COUNCIL MEMBER McCASLIN MOVED , AND COUNCIL MEMBER PENN SECONDED, TO APPROVE
AGENDA ITEM 11 (2) (I). COUNCIL BILL NO , 78 .
• COUNCIL BIL L NO . 78, INTRODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBE R McCASLIN
A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 12, CHAPTER 2 , SECTION 3, SUBSECTION B, OF THE
ENGLEWOOD MUNICIPAL CO DE 2000 REGARD ING SEWER FEES AND CHAHGES .
Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 20
Mayor Woodward asked if there was any discussion .
Mayor Woodward said I just want to make the comment that , ~ven with this increase, our sewwr rates remains
the lo we st , or one of the lowest, in the metro area, And in Decer,,ber, hopefully , our whole plant comes online
fully , which is state-of-the-art for the time, It was over four years ago when I first l 'ame on '::our.c•! that we
approved that major modification . So , it is quite the thing ,
Mayor Woodward asked if there was any other discus sio n. There was none ,
Vote results :
Ayes: C'ouncil Members Penn , Mccaslin, Moore, Woodward, Jeffersor,.
Wilson , Oakley
Nays: None
Motion carried.
The meeting recessed at g:J2 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 9:43 p,m. with all Council members present.
(b) Approval of Ord inances on Second Reading
(i) Council Bill No. 57, approving the 2008 Mill Levy for collection in 2009 was considered.
COUNCIL MEMBER McCASLIN M'JVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER PENN SECONDED, TO APPROVE
•
AGENDA ITEM 11 (b) (I) -ORDINANCE NO. 65, SERIES OF 2008 . •
ORDINANCE NO . 65, SERIES OF 2008 (COUNCIL BILL NO , 57 , INTRODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER
McCA SLIN)
AN ORDINANCE FIXING THE TAX LEVY IN MILLS UPON EACH COLLAR OF THE ASSESSED VALUATION
OF ALL TAXABLE PROPERTY WITHIN THE CITY OF ENGLEWOOD, COLORADO,
Mayor Woodward asked if there was any discussion . There was none.
Vote results:
Motio n carried.
Ayes,: Council Members Penn , Mccaslin, Moore , Woodward , Jefferson ,
Wilson, Oakley
Nays: None
(,) Council Bill No, 65 , authorizing an amendment to Title 16 : Unified Developnent Code
eslablishing an e,ception to the m inimum lot width and area requirements for su bdi visio n of properties in all R-1
Zone Districts was considered .
COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER OAKLEY SECONDED, TO APPROVE
AGENDA ITEM 11 (b) (II).
COlJNCIL BILL NO. 65, INTRODUCED BY CO UNCIL MEMBER OAKLEY
AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 16, CHAPTER 8, SECTION 4, OF THE ENGLEWOOD MUNIC IPAL
CODE 2000 , ES7ABLISHING AN EXCEPTION TO THE MINIMUM LOT WIDTH AND AREA REQUIREMENTS •
FOR SUBDIVISIOI~ OF PROPERTl~S IN ALL R-1 ZONE DISTRICTS .
Ma }1or Woodward sa id let s open lhis one up for di!:icussion .
Englewood City t;ouncil
Novembor 3, 2008
Page 21
• Mayor Woodward sa id ma ybe I should start since I did the short te rm. I, myself, and other c,,,,,11 members
have gone and looked at a piece of pro~erty that Mr . Curnow had presented at one point. .. wn,, the garage in
front. We also looked at the property over on Ogden . \Mth that and being ab le to conceptually ·,ee , actu,.:ly see
something more than Just someth ing on paper ... we came up with some alternat ives . We asked the City
Attorney to write up som e of the alterna ti ve language . The first one ... the first alternat ive would be to incorpo rate
this as a criteria when a request is made to the Planning and Zoning Commission . The following language
would be Incorporated in th e new language that is being added . Th is is under 16-8-4 (D) (1 ) (a) (5) (c): the
resulting subdivision will now have a significant negat ive impact on those propert ies surrounding the subd ivided
property and that the general public health , safety and welfare of th • ·ommunity are protected . Th is is the
language that would be added . Such consideration shall Include , bu . ;hall not be limited to the nurrber of front
load ing garages on the block in wh ich the property is located. Now there is another one and the second one is
ny preference . The second alternat ive is an outright restriction for any requests for an except ion to minimum lot
width in area requirements in R-1 Zone Districts . The following language mirrors the language for duplexes that
was recently adopted by Council . So , in addition to the A, B, and C that are there under 16-8-4 (D) (1) (a) (6)
the other restrictions would ~e (6) (d) (I): property having rear alley access : (a): driveway access from the publ ic
streets shall be prohib ited ,,xcept for corner lots where garage , carport or park ing pad may be accessed from
th e side street...(b): parkin~• pads withi n the front yard or fr< nt setbacks shall be prohib ited .. ;:;_1: property without
rea r alley access ... garages and carports shall be located, "lnlmum of 20 feet behin d the frJn; building line of
the dweiling ... (b): maximum driveway and or parking pad wloi;, within the front yard or front setback shall be 10
feet. Those are two alternatives that were put forward . I do ha i e a question for Dan on this . He said it says all
R-1 Zone Dis trict s •nd I am wonde ring if that shouldn 't be under the second choice ... R-1C Districts?
City Attorney Brotzman said it would be because that is what the original ord inance is addressing . And that
language is explana tory to Council, not contained in the language that wilt appear In the ordrnance . I'm sorry,
the ordinance applies to all R-1 Zone Districts , so it applies across the board .
• Mayor Woodward said It applies across the board , but I guess with the restrictions , does it make sense for 3 75
foot lot frontage or larger to have this type of restriction on it. That is my question . Attorney Brotzman said thes
you can narrow it to that one Zone District. Mr. Woodward said okay .
Counc il Member Moore said can you cl arify for me ... the second alternative is intended , I'm sorry , it wou ld
provide no exceptions for lot width in what circumstances? As presented ... all R-1 A, Band C, right? Mayor
Woodward said right. This would be ... the restrictions would be for R-1C . These restr ictions with regard to
propert ies wi1hout rear alley access , becaus e it is a 50 foot lot... wh ich could be 5% less .
Council Member Moore sa id I am sorry if I am miss ing it. What I am read ing here ... it is just saying , in R-1 there
will be no exce 0 tions to th e 50 foot requirement. Attorney Brotzman said no . What th is is doing is preventing
front load ing ga,ages ... if you also grant the 5%. If you are granting a 5% adjustment , this prohibits front load ing
garages .
Counc il Member Jefferson sa id that fi rst sentence on number 2 seems to be a little misleading .
Counci l Member Moore sa id the sen tence sa ys it is an outright restriction for an exception to min imum lot width
in R-1 Zon e Distric ts . Attorney Brotzman sa id aga in ... l'm sorry .. Mr . Moore said that was not what that was
meant to say ? Mr. Brotzman sa id it wa s meant to relate to the front load ing garage issue . Mr. Moore sai d oka y.
Council Member Oa kley said but that would mean ... a property without an alley would not be able to ha ve a
garage , if it was given the exception . Mr . Brotzman sa id corre ct... correct. Mr. Oakley said I don 't know how we
can do that .
Mayor Woodwar~ sa id I'm sorry Wayne , wou ld you repeat your quest ion , I just didn 't hear it.
• Council Member Oakley said the way th is is worded , if the property does not have an alley , the y canno t have a
garage . Coun ci l Member Jefferson sa id If they split the lot.
Mayo r Woodward said ro, they can have a garage .
Englewood City Council
Novombor 3, 2008
Page 22
Attorney Brotzman sa id they can , it jus t has to be 20 feet behin d the front b• rilding lin9 .
Ma:•or Woodward said under •,ember (ii) (a): garag ,,s and carports shall be located a minim um of 20 fee : beh ind
,no •rant build ing line of the dwell ing .
Coun cil Member Penn said I th ink if you go over to that property ... the said property that most of us are talk ing
about...on that lot there is one garage In the front...one garage even ... and the majority of the garages are In th e
ba ck , in the ir back yards . I've been over there thre~ times , I th ink th is week , looking at all that and I th ink that is
the way Its setup for all th< ' Juses on that block . Now if you go one block south , there are quite a few front end
garages ... Mr. McCasl !n said 2 or 3 ... Mr. Penn sa id probably more than that.
Mayor Wood ward sa id there are some new ones tha t. .. in one of them lhat was presented to us by Mr . Curnow,
that I bel ie ve was his, which is a very nice looking house , very n,ce looking garag e ... but from the street appeal ,
to me , there was no street appeal .
Council Member Penn said all you can see is the side of the garage .
Mr . Woodward said tr.e side of the garage with two nice looking windows and an edge of a house . And that is
why I am propos ing that. I do believe tha t the 5% exception is in line with the Comp Plan : Roadmap 2003 . I do
think i• gives us the opportun ity to provide a different type of housing . Housing stock is important and I think this
addre, ses some of the problems , especially with hav ing the problem of looking at a garage .
Council Member Oakley said Jim , when we apply this to all R-1 zoning , you can find places in this town in R·
1 ... that front load in g garages are the norm , certainly , maybe with 10 houses on each side , 90 % of them have
front loading garages . So ,~ house could be built in that area and be the norm . If we are talking about how
something looks , you have to apply it to the who le City and not just this one particular area .
Mayor Woodward sa id I am look in g at that , because this is basically changing the size of that lot. So , if you look
at a ne ighborhood and let 's say, for example , north of Kenyon on Galapago, there are later mode l homes there
with a lot of front lo ading garages ... garages on the front. If there wss one that came along thal needed to have
that 5%, what th is is saying is that to have that garage ... provided that there isn 't an alley and I do :1't th ink there
is an alley th ere .. t~at garage rs go ing to have to be set back , so the houses , the majority of what you are
seeing from the street side not the garage .
Counc il Member Moore sa id Wayn e, just to clari,). ii was only the firs t altern at ive that Jim is not talking about
that had a function of the neighbors . The second alt.,nativ e isn 't bound by whether or not the block is
predomi nate ly front garage or not...if that helps .
Co unc il Member Oakley said I guess that would help lo a certain degree , but I gu ess I can 't see the advantage ,
if 90% of the houses on the bloc k already have front load ing garages , that the ga ra ge is even with th e front of
th e house , what good is ii go ing to do to restr ict one person to put his garage back to the ba ck of the t.ous.;. II
wou ld take a hundred years for thal to ever balance out to where that would be the norm in the ne ig hb orhood .
•
•
Mayor Wood ward said ii may not be the norm in the neighborhood , because the house we are discussing here
is not the norm . Counc il Member Oak ley said in th is part icu lar instan ce . Mayor Woodward said well in the
instance of th is ordinance whic h is a 5% adm inistrat ;ve .... Cou ncil Member Oakley said okay , I see that. But I
submit to you that you have a 50 foot lot, which is bas ic ally the norm in th is town , that you can dr ive down any
bl ock in th is town th at has some irregular sized lots or you can even walk down the block and if they are only
within 5%, visually yo u cannot tell the difference because the offsets of their houses are the same . Yo u would
have to take a ta pe measure and actually get out and measure the lot to know if it is a 48 foot lot or a 50 fo ot lot.
So to me , that is what we are looking at. We are looking at trying to do some infil ls and trying to redevelop
some of our propert ies and do ing It in a manner that will not rest rict the va lues and will not de grad e the •
ne ighborhood and I subm it to you that a 5% is not enough to do that. Now in th is one particular case up here, it
may be diffe rent , but when you are looking at the City as a whole ... lhat is how I see it.
Englewood City Council
Nova.mber 3, 2008
Page 23
• Council Membe r Wilson sa id I guess I would like to make a lew comments . Th is has been a really tough
situation , because at first I was thinking the 5% wasn't that big of a deal , then I was go ing to the fa ct that if we
changed where the garage was that , that would help with that. But I honestly belie ve the only is sue that has
come before us with th is has been Curnow and I haven 't heard anyone reques t... that I know of ... or I guess th at
we have been told ... who have asked for a variance . I oppose th is. I am not go ing to vote for it. I don 't th ink it is
necessary . I think that It was never put into motion to begin with and cod ified. I think I wo uld have to hear more
positive things about it. I understand the people com ing forth and I understand the ir concerns and I hear them ,
loud and clear. I feel that, you know , how do we know that the majority of the people don 't feel like that. We
don 't. On hearing both sides of it, I would have to vote against it.
Council Member Moore sa id your Honor , may I add something . Mayor Woodward said you may . Mr. Moore sa id
actually Jill , I agree with you . This has been very tough . In listening to the testimony I th ink the res idents '
primary concern really relates to the UDC standards of the houses that can be built under our UDC . One of the
neighbors spoke very highly of her 100 foot lot , but the r-'al ity is that that ne ighbor has the right to spl it that into
two lots without gett ing neighbor's approval . It is a rig~: 1I,at is already wit h that lot , so I personally struggle with
the idea that the next door ne ighbor , who has a 99 foot lot, doesn 't have tha t same right. I th ink that
disadvantage that Is a result Just of essentially the natural platting of the land ... that doesn't feel right to me either
and I think that the administratl·,e process that we are proposing would have made sen se and also I do respect
the citizen input that we get from Planning and Zoning . But all that sa id, I respect when the citizens come out
and speak so passionately about their cause and un iformly . So actually , despite the fact that I think this is a
positive ... would have been a pos itiv e step In terms of the redevelopment of our housing stock in Englewood , I
don 't see enough motivation to push th is forward . We have clear representation of citizens opposing it and I
th ink that we can extrapolate and expect that from other areas and I don 't hear a strong demand that , you know,
that a 99 foot lot owner ... that there are a lot of them out there needing th is right. So , like Ms. Wilson , I will not
be supporthg this amendment. And again , really valuing the input of the ne ighborhood ... not Just with respect to
•
what it mea,,s for this property , but what I take from that In terms of what it would mean in other neighborhoods
as well .
Council Member Penn said I too , will not support the way it is written here . I j ust can 't do that. But with one of
the things that I came on the City Counc il with ... was to try to enhance the hous ing stock in Englewood . I do like
some of th e suggestions that Jim has made and I think we should take a look at that, but I would not support It
as written here , but I would loo k at the stuff that Jim is propos ing .
Council Member Mccaslin sa id I agree . My wife and I moved from Highlands Ranch and I have been accused
sometimes of try ing to bring Highlands Ranch to Englewood wh ich I am not. Let me get that stra ight , because
I've had an artic le writte n about that , that's not true . But I would also oppose th •s as written . Now if we go back
and Jee if we can help out some of the developers that want to ... but right no\\ , would oppos e this .
Courci l Member Oa kley sa id if we getting the consensus that we feel that we should do someth ing In this area ,
but we can 't support it as written , can we pull it and try to come up with something we all can support ?
Counc il Member Wilson sa id I don 't feel that I ca n sup port the 5% variance . I would lik e to see certa in
standards and not hu ge amounts of standards , but similar to what we put into effect for th e dup lexes ... pu t in for
the h~using , because I do th ink that is an iss ue and people don 't want to see garages . But there has not been a
strong push for the 5% var iance ... ! have not heard that is a proble m. So , while I would like to see the garages
not In the front , I don 't know that the variance is a problem . I mean that I don 't think the 5% varia nce is needed .
I don 't see builders coming and ask ing for it or heard that when I had tha t housing commitlee .
Council Member Oakle y sa id as I remember th is, ii was someth in g that we decided to try to be proa ctive on and
thought th is would be a way of doing It. Now , If we have changed our minds on that... I think at one time , we all
thought this was a proactiv e th ing to do .
• Council Member Jefferson said I agree and I guess I st ill th ink thal , you know , for a pol icy for the entire City that
allows for small variances is not a bad idea . That Is why I kind of like th is alternative one ... it allows for citizen
feedback or a hearing on part icular iss ues , where the re is a problem and that can be used to allow for citizen
input.
Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 24
Mayor Woodward sa id you are say ing , Alternative 1? Council Member Jefferson said correct and th at is just
consi dera tion shall incl ud e .... and I just kind of lik e the fact that it will take the esthetics of lhe ne ighborhood , and
things of that nature , into co ns ideration in helping make that dec ision of to allow or not allow a part ic ular
variance in any situat ion . But , I am generally of the feeling that we do have some odd lot sizes in the City and
that I agree . that you can 't tell the difference between a 99 foot lot and a 100 foot lot. And the footprint of the
build ing would be very similar in those situations , so I just don 't see that being such a problem everywhere like it
is In the situat ion that we 've heard about. So , I would ge nerally be suppor1ive of allowing for the 5% rule ... with
allowing for citizen feedback and the opportun ity to be heard .
Council Member Wilson sa id and are you say ing who would approve that because citizens ... Counc il Member
Jefferson said I guess that is a totally separate issue, because I did read the memo from Mr . Sm ith, I think it
was , saying that '.he Board of Adjustment and Appeals would be the appropriate body for those type of hearings .
I feel like it is a to /ally separate issue though . Perhaps we can just focus on how Council feels about generally
allow ing 5% variances and you know, where we all kind of shake out on that first issue .
Mayor Woodward said Dan , can you address Mr. Smith 's letter and thn consequences of that? City Attorney
Brotzman said prior to the UDC . variances were allowed to actually take th is 5% .. .it could be any
percentage ... into account. It was simply a lot siz e variance . Under the UDC a lot size variance , Counc il
determined , was no longer appropriate . They didn 't want that in the Code anymore ... much lik e this discuss ion
is ta king place on whether that is approp riate or not. It was removed from the Code . So lot size variances
disap peared . What Mr. Smith is recommend ing is allowing the Board of Adjustment. with their cu rrent criteria . to
cons ider lot size variances . So you have to meet the criteria set forth for the Board of Adjustment and Appeals .
But . Mr. Smith Is not limiting this to R-1 Districts , he is saying , In all districts that should be allowed as a var iance
criteria . Mayor Woodward said ... and your opin ion of that? Attorney Brotzman said it's neither good nor bad , it
is a policy Question . T(,e difficulty is , it is so radically different than what you have before you ... that that really
needs to go b,'ck to '.'lanning and Zon ing , rather than just trying to draft language to address that.
Counc il Member Moore snid that was a policy decision ... to move that out of BOA's ... Attorney Brotzman said
right. Mayor Woodward said okay .
Mayor Woodward said so , I guess what I have heard is with regard to Co un cil Bill No . 65 ... I believe there is a
consensus ... not supporting it as written .
Counc il Member Wilson said I am not go ing to support the 5% variance . Mayor Wood ward sa id as written .
Several Council members spoke at the same tim e.
Or , Council Member Jefferso n said , in any other forrna t...l think is \"hat she is trying to say . Several Counc il
members spoke at the same time .
Cou ncil Member Wilson said I am not supporting it. I don 't see that there is.. Other Council membe rs have
me ntioned it... that nothing has come forward . And being on the hous ing committee with build ers that , that was
never an issue . They wo uld much rath er see the all eys paved . So , I don 't think it is necessary . I do thin k that it
is necessary to have ce rta in standards . such as garages in front , but to me that is a whole different iss ue th an
the 5% variance .
Mayor Woodward said are th ere any suggestions on any change s or are we ready to vote? Is the qu estio n
ready to be call ed?
Several Council members sa id I am re ady to vote .
•
•
Cou ncil Member Moore sai d personally I am not opp osed to Counc il considering thes e othe r issues , but I
personally th ink . at th is point . we put th is one lo bed . If we come back and start fresh start ... co nsiderin g such •
improvements , an y Imp rove ments for our hous ing stock and other considerat ions . we just do that with a fresh
mind some other time . Ma yor Woodward said okay .
Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 25
• Mayor Woodward said any ot her comments?
Council Member Jefferson said I heard maybe Wayne and I generally thought that the 5% variance is a
reasonably good idea ... policy for the City . Is there any desire from any other Council members to pursue that in
any form ? Mayor Woodward sa id now I would have a des ire to pursue it in some sort of form , but not this .
Council Member Jefferson sa id so that be ing said then what is the ... Mayor Woodward sa id wP.:i the next thing
is that what I had proposed , there are no motions on it. Nobody has made a motion for eithP., one . We have
had sJme discussion .
Counc il Member Oakley sa id I th ink from my standpo int, that is the reason I suggesteo poss ibly pulling
th is ... because if you read these and you read them again and you read aga in, It is like my confusion on the one
question that I asked ... ! am not sure that I can decide now that , you know, my feelings are not being swayed by
lawsuits or anyth ing else . And I sympathize with these people's views and their standpoint. I am trying to look
at what is best for the City . If this was a proactive thing and we all agreed on it six months ago , before th is all
came up , then in my mind , ii is still a proactive thing and we ought to come up with some kind of a comprom ise
where we can do it. So , if It Is voted down tonight, then it Is just dead and it Is not a proactive thing anymore . I'll
still vote yes , because of that, not even fully agree ing with it. but it is a principle th ing ... we deci1ed It was
proactive at one time and I still think it is .
Council Member Penn sa id I think we need to put th is to bed right now and come back with some of the
variances and some of the suggestions that we have ... at a later time and In a later form .
Council Member Jefferson said is that a Study Sess ion topic? Mr. Penn said I believe ii could be a Study
Session topic . We need to take care of this and then we need to come back and take care of our City later .
• Mayor Woodward said okay . Please vole .
Vote results:
Ayes : Council Member Oakley
Nays : Council Members Penn , Mccaslin , Moore , Woodward , Jefferson ,
Wil son
Mo ti on defeated .
(i ii) Counc il Bill No . 73, amending the Englewood Municipal Code pertaining to Concrete
Ut ility fees was considered .
COUNCIL MEMBER McCASLIN MOVEO, AND COUNCIL MEMBER WILSON SECONDED , TO APPROVE
AGENDA ITEM 11 (b) (Ill) • ORDINANCE NO . 66 , SERIES OF 2008 .
ORDINANCE NO . 66 , SERIES OF 2008 (COUNCIL BILL NO . 73 , INTRODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER
MOORE)
AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 12 , CHAPTER 8, SECTION 6 OF THE ENGLEWOOD MUNICIPAL CODE
2000 , PERTAINING TO THE Uf .~R FEES FOR THE CONCRETE UTILITY AND CONCRETE UTILITY
ENTERPRISE FUND FOR THE CITY OF ENGLEWOOD , COLORADO .
Mayor Woodwa rd asked If there was any discuss ion .
Council Member Moore sa id I need a momen t... do we have the language in here abou t... how did we end up on
the Increa ses for the ne xt two years? City Attomey Brotzman there is a resolullon ... Agenda item 11 (c) (ii). Mr.
Moo re sa id than k yo u .
• Ma yo r Woodward sa id If the re is no further discuss io n, pl ease vote .
Vote results :
Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 26
Ayes :
Nays :
Motion car ried .
Council Members Penn , Mccaslin , Moore , Woodward , Jefferson ,
Wil son , Oakley
None
(c) Re solution s and Motions
(i) Director Gryglewicz presented a recommendation fro m the Department of Finance and
Ad ministrative Serv ices Department to approve a resolutio n authoriz ing a supplemental appropriation from the
Landscape and Fine Arts Fund for lighting improvements , concrete and electrical repairs and holiday
decorations . He said th is is a supplemental appropriation transferring money from the General Fund , Fine Arts
Funds to the Public Improvement ►und in the •mount of $63,000 .00 . $6 ,000 .00 of that Is for holiday lighting ,
$12 ,000 .00 is for electrical and co11crete rep airs and $45 ,000 .00 is for globe rep lacements on Broadway .
Mayor Woodward asked if there were any questions for Frank . There were none .
COUNCIL MEMBER OAKLEY MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER PENN SECONDED, TO APPROVE
AGENDA ITEM 11 (c) (I)· P2SOLUTION NO. 77, SERIES OF 2008.
RESOLUTION NO . 77, SERIES OF 2008
A RESOLUTION TRANSFERRING FUNDS FROM THE LANDSCAPE AND FINE ARTS FUND TO THE
PUBLIC IMPROVEMENT FUND FOR LIGHTING IMPROVEMENTS, CONCRETE AND ELECTRICAL
REPAIRS AND HOLIDAY DECORATIONS .
Mayor Woodward asked if there wa s an y discussion .
Mayor Woodward said I th ink on the actual resolution there are some blanks in there . Mr . Gryglewicz said yes .
Mr. Woodward sa id ~ is my understand ing that the first blank, which is the third whereas , the number would be
$6,000 .00 , then Source of Funds wo uld be $63 ,000 .00 , Use of Funds wo uld be $63 ,000 .00 . Coming from the
Pub lic Improvement Fund , Source of Funds $63,000 .00 and Use of Funds $63 ,000 .00 .
Mayor Woodward asked if the re were any questions or rem ariks . Th ere we re none .
Vote results :
Mot ion carried .
Ayes : Counc il Members Penn , Mccaslin, Moore , Woodward , Jeffers on,
Wilson , Oakley
Na ys : None
(ii) Director Fonda prese nted a recommendat ion from the Ut ility Department to approve a
res olution authorizing a water rate increase . He said th is was discussed in detail in a previous Study Session .
The revenue increases are need ed to do nume rous cap ital projects for th e Utility , including rebuilding some of
our water ma ins , paint ing our steel tanks , rebu ilding some of th e piping around our overhead storage reservoir s,
and in add ition by gett ing us ready to install ultra violet dis infect io n and repa ir the Allen Plant r0<>f. The ultra violet
disinfection system will be nee ded to meet future requirements con cern ing cyst removal. The recommended
lnr.,eases are 7% in 2009 , 7% in 2010 and 6% in 2011 .
M;,yor Woodward asked if there were any questions for Stu . There were none .
COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE MOVED , AND COUNCIL MEMBER McCASLIN SECONDED, TO APPROVE
AGENDA ITEM 11 (c) (II)· RESOLUTION NO . 78, SERIES OF 2008 ,
RESOLUTION NO . 78 , SERI ES OF 200 8
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Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Pago 27
• A RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING FEE SCHEDULES FOR WATER SERV' '.E FOR THE CUSTOMERS OF
THE CITY OF ENGLEWOOD , COLORADO .
Mayor Woodward ask,d if there was any discuss ion .
Mayor Woodward said I do have , Siu , I mentioned that we do have th is letter and I will just read it. "Mayor and
Staff, if waler bil ls are being raised , why is the Water Department send ing four people lo Las Vegas ? Why not
send one or two and then the rest can educate others . Long lime resident , Ben Madison " Mayor Woodward
sa id do you want to respond?
Director Fonda sa id yes , Gary had , I believe , passed out two memos and I wanted lo emphasis that this is
deta iled train ing that we receive from the supplier of our billi ng system ... software , We have a very complex
billing system , We were the first ones to use this company . We did a lot of research before we got them . There
have been a lot of bill ing systems that have failed around the country recently ... over the last several years . And
typically those are ones that were bu ilt like Oracle or other large systems that were built for other applications
and then they try to fit you into the ir mold , This billi ng system is out of Toronto and ii is very flexible , so that we
can adapt and change with ii and gel all of the items that we need done in our billing system completed . Since
we were the first in the Midwest to get this system and now there are numerous others , including Boulder,
Westminster and Arvada ... have all gone to this system now that they have seen it. ii is a very good system , it is
working well , but it does require a lot of Intense tra ining by the people who operate ii. Th is company sets up
yearly ... in different cities ... training and ii is a consislenti\ changing system also . So , we are brought up to date
on the changes and we are also tra ined in the actual usage . We probably have far more capab ility there than
we can now actually do , so send ing people like this lo tra ining is a very economical way lo gel them trai ned and
start using what this system can produce . We have been doing this for several years and we believe that this Is
the most effective way to do ii. We have had people come in from Toronto to do special training when we had
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to gel it so that we could do certain functions , but that isn't as good as where you go some place and ii is all set
up and you interrelate with other cities that are also doing ii. We bel ieve th is is the most cost effective way lo
gel the train in g and the training is an absolute must for our people to function with this co mp licate d system .
Mayor Woodward sa id I just want to re ite rate loo someth ing that Counc il was aware of as we 've gone through
this with the Water Board .,, Is that our increases at 7% for the next two years and 6% in 2011 , compares to
Denver al 7 ½ %, Aurora al 8% and then 7 ½ % ... Colorado Springs was talking 40 to 45% and we already start
out with one of the lowest wa ler rates in the area . And so, I don 't know if this gentleman 's concern was th at ii
was in Las Vegas , which sometimes meetings are In Las Vegas and that is just what happens . Bui I think our
water rates are certa inly some of the lowest and certainly env ied by many cities in the metro area and around
the Stale. Thal would be my onl y comment.
Mayor Woodward asked if there were any other comments , There were none .
Vote results :
Motion ca rried .
Ayes : Council Members Penn , Mccaslin , Moore , Woodward , Jefferson ,
Wilson , Oakley
Na ys : None
(i ii) Eng ineering /Cap ital Project s Administrator Hend erso n presented a recommendat io n
from the Pub lic Works Department lo approve a resolution authorizing a concre te utility fee increase . He said
we have about 7.3 mill ion square feel of concrete In Eng lewood . 6.6 million of that is ad jacent to private
propert ie s and the owners are responsible for the maintenance of ii . The Concrete Ut ility is a volunteer program
adopted by Council in 1997 and probably about 96% of properties in Englewood part ici pate. The fee has not
been adjusted since the inception of the program and costs have risen substantially , In 2008 we are probab ly
only able to do about one half the amount of concrete that we could in 1997 , Each year our concrete staff goes
• out and ra tes all the concre te in the City and we include lhe wors t of the worst in our annual concrete program .
The list is prioritized , it is based on citizen compla ints , some standard criteria we ha ve and we also pay special
attent ion lo hig h traffic areas such as schools . r:ighl now a typ ical res ident ial property, with a 50 fool front age ,
pays S25 .35 a year or $2 , 11 a month . With th ase Ir.creas es , in 2009 th ey will see about a 54 ce nt per month
Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 28
increase . And for 2010 ... an addit ional 67 cents a month . Property owners pa y based on the amount of squa re
foot In front of their property and ton igh t's resolution would establ ish the fees for 2009 at 9.8 ce nts per square
foot and for 2010 they would be 12 .3 cents per square foot. So , we as k for Council's approval of th is re solu tio n
and I would be happy to answer any quest io ns .
COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER WILSON SECONDED , TO APPROVE
AGENDA ITEM 11 (c) (Ill) • RESOLUTION NO . 79, SERIES OF 2008 .
RESOLUTION NO . 79 , SERIES OF 2008
A RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING FEE SCHEDULES FOR THE CITY OF ENGLEWOOD CONCRETE UTILITY .
Mayor Woodward asked if there was any discuss ion . There was none .
Vote results :
Motion carrie d.
Ayes : Council Members Penn. Mccaslin . Moore , Woodward . Jefferson ,
Wi lson , Oakle y
Nays : None
12 . General Dl1cu11lon
(a) Mayo~s Choice
(i) Mayor Woodward sa id first I would like to address Mr. Miller's comments and this Is a
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question , I believe for Dan or Alan if he is still here . This Conditional Use , will this come in front of us? City •
Attorney Brotzman said only if it is appealed . This matter was approved by the Planning and Zon ing
Comm ission . The Findings of Fact actually comes before the Board tomorrow night. It may be appealed to
Council. If it is not within ... I can 't remember if it is 30 or 60 days ... it becomes final and moves forward . Mayor
Woodward sa id okay .
Codncil Member Moore sa id who has stand ing to appeal? Attorney Brotzman sa id Mr. Miller could appeal th is .
Any o~ the ne ighbors could actually appeal it.
Ma) or Woodwa rd sa id okay .
Attorney Brotzman said one note of caution . We don 't have that many hearings where we actually follow the
exact same criteria that the Board has ... but in th is particu lar case , you are go ing to be look ing at the exact same
criteria. There may be different testimony before you , that didn 't happen at the last hearing , but the criteria
rem ai ns the same . Mayor Woodward said okay .
Mayor Woodward sa id this is a new use , right? I mean a new Conditional Us e for th is part ic ular piece of
prop erty . Attorney Brotz man said it was a junk yard before , sorry ... recycling , but it was a junk yard and that was
a perm itted use . It was actually a former Council memb er's property prior to this and now it is proposed as a
waste transfer facility . Mayor Woodward sa id okay .
Ma yor Woodward said th is isn't the one that I have done the Council Request on a few weeks ago , from ... I
believe ... the Brandt's ? City Manager Sears sa id I th ink it may be ... I don 't remember tha t. Mayor Woodward
said regarding trucks in the ne ighboring streets and ... Mr. Sears said I know that the Brandt's may live in that
ne ighborhood and I think that that Is .... I don 't know exactly which prope rty ... but truly , th is has been ongoing as
a disc uss ion for pr.,bably six months or a year so . It Is a change of use, but as the attorney has indicated, th at
ha s been at the P!ann ing Comm ission and could move forward to Cou nci l. Mayo r Woodward sa id okay , all •
righ t, thank 1\,u.
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Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 29
(ii) Mayor Woodward said the item regarding the trees ... that were brought u.p In the Study
Sess ion ... on Broadway . The BID has proposed to replace 10 trees at 50% at their expense and 50% at the
business owner's expense . They are asking for our approval to move forward wi th that.
MAYOR WOODWARD MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER PENN SECONDED, TO MOVE FORWARD WITH
THE BID PROPOSAL TO REPLACE 10 TREES AT 50% AT THEIR EXPENSE AND 50% AT THE BUSINESS
OWNER'S EXPENSE, WITH THE PROPER PERMITS.
Mayor Woodward asked if there was any discuss;on . There was none .
Vote results :
Motion carried .
Ayes : Council Members Penn , Mccaslin, Moore , Woodward , Jefferson , Wilson ,
Oakley
Nays : None
(iii) Mayor Woodward said I just want to mention that I did have the opportunity to
participate, last Wednesday or Thursday , In the process of choosing the calenoar art to be exhibited for the
2009 calendar ... the short list of 50. It is always fun being around a bunch of kids with a lot of energy, who are
proud of their stuff and having their pa;ents there ... how proud they were . There is some pretty amazing art out
there . Regarding our calendar, I have received comments from different people around the country ab uut that
calendar . How did we get it started and what to do about ii and how to get it going? And ii has really turned into
something that , I think, Englewood should be pretty proud of ... these students doing their art work for our City
calendar .
(b) Council Members' Choice
(I) Council Member Penn:
1. He said speaking of kid's excitement , they had the Kid 's Fest over at the Englewood Assembiy of God
on Halloween night. It was a great , great entertainment for our young kids . There must have been well over
100 kids taking part ... it was all safe and all ver/ fun . Congratulations to them for having that for our citizens .
2. He sa id I had a great ride-along today with Code Enforcement Officer Larry Medina . We rode all over
Englewood and saw things I have not seen for a long time and hopefully I can put that together .
3. He said congratulations ... I know most of them have lelt ... to the citizens of the Police Academy
participants . That is a great program and a super way to keep active .
4 . He said I don 't know which one said this , but I would like to check in on whether we have granted the
variances before ... whether P and Z has granted those . Is there any way we can find that out as a Council
Request? Gary is there any way we can find that out? City Manager Sears said sure , we can check .
Absolutely , we will just list that as a Council Request and go back through the last 10 years or so and take a
look at what has been granted . Mr . Penn said , okay , thank you .
5. He sa id I do have tickets for the Englewood Education Foundation Fall Fling if anybody is interested in
go inJ . II is the 15th of November right here , so It Is not too bad .
6. He said if I have to retract this I will , but I really suggest that everybody go out and vote tomorrow. Do I
have to retract that? City Attorney Brotzman said no .
(ii) Council Member Moore :
He said I have a question , the individual that spoke to us tonight about the trash collection and not
hav ing the opportunity for service in her area from a couple of the vendors . I do recall w;th Qwest or
Comcast... Qwest I thin k ii was ... we would not grant them a license on certain things un less they serviced the
Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 30
entire City . I guess I would ju,,! li ke to verify that. It sounds like we don 't require that for trash collection and if
thal is the answer ... then the naxl que st ion is , should we? It might make sense that if we are going to grant a
license in the City , we make it ,1Va il able to all of the citiz~·.s. Again , I draw the parallel we already have in place
with Qwest . if I remember It corr,sclly , whe re they wanted to serve just the high margin areas for high speed
internet or telev isio n or whatever . So , I would like a little more on that.
2. He sa id I had planned a le ngt hy retort to Mr . Crabtree 's allegations tonight , but I am tired and rather
than continue this personal deba!L . it probably won 't get to any productive end ... I am going to offer an olive
branch . So , I am going to give you the last word this we ek . I will pass on my response and I hope that next
week we can move on to other top ics for criticism . Thank you .
Mayor Woodward said thank you John .
Council Member Jefferson sa id so will we see that trash iss 11e o;, ~ Study Sess ion topic ? Coun cil Member
Moore sa id th is is just a request for information at this point.
Mayor Woodward said ... just for your information ... we do have that coming up on our Citizen Survey for 2010
too and I had ment ioned that to her .
Council Member Jefferson said I feel that this is an issue though that we didn 't really talk about or really delve
into .
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Mayor Wo~r.ward said th is is a different issue , but part of the issue here is that they are talking about side
loading ... so that is why it is $25 .00 for their particular can or whatever ... because she doesn 't have an alley . •
Hers is a street. But I agree that there should be some things that... you know I had referred to my trash hauler .
who I mean I've really ... :·ve never said th is before ... but I am really im pressed with th is trash hauler and I ha ·1e
used him for a number of years . But any time you have a trash hauler that takes your recycle bins from the
street and bri ngs them up to your front door every day, that's different. That is unheard of. Well , she called
them 2n d they don 't go up there eith er and Iha! was a total surprise to me .
(iii) Counci l Member Oakley :
1. He sa id I would certainly like to get some more feedback along those lines , but I do bel ieve Comcast
be ing a sole source , is a little bit diffe rent than several trash companies working in the City and I think we might
be stepping on free enterprise there ... if we go there . But certainly we should look at it and see .
2. He sa id th e second thing , I did attend the Fire Departments ' 100~ year luncheon last Saturday .
Unfortunately , I was the only Council member who was able to attend and I was asked to say a few words and I
did state that that is generally the Mayor's job and it is not In my job descript ion , so I didn 't say anyth ing on
behalf of the City . Hc,wever , I wcrked with the Fire Department for 43 years and I did have some personal
th ings I wanted to say , so I did say a few words .
Ma yor Woodwa rd said I appr,;ci ate th at Wayne . Generally I get more than one day not ice on com ing to
someth ing and I, aga in, was with kids at a socce r game at 2 o'clo ck .
3. He said carrying our discuss ions about the EURA ... from the Study Session over into this ... l Jon '! know
how many of you had a chance to read the minutes of October a'" of the Englewood Urban Ren~wal Authority .
It was In our packets . but sometimes you don 't have a chance to go through It. If you haven 't, I would like for
you to read that and I would like to propose that we bring these particular minutes of the meeting up in a Study
Sess io n, because it appears that there are still many bones of contention that need to be discussed . As a
matter cf fact , it was stated in here as such that Counc il should be Informed about some th ings and the re were •
some reasons for concern . So , I th ink we ought to address those and :ry to get them stra ightened out , if we
can . In sa ying that , I would like for staff to prepare , and include in Thu rsday night's packet before tha t, the
nec essary materi~1 c;;.o we don 't ha vt to go looking for it on our own . In other words , indude these minutes and
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Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page 31
the memo that Ji m sent out ... actually it was In an e-mail form that was put in a packet stating what our de cisions
were, based on our Salurday budget meeting , because some of that Is brought up in here loo . So, we need the
mate rial it takes to go with th is , if we are going to bring it up , so we don 'I have to go back and dig in old pac kets .
Mayor Woodward said can I jusl add to that Wayne , thal I had asked Alan , when I came in today , that I was
somewhat surprised to see that in the packet Those minutes are exactly why I will not support minutes that
have not been approved , going out first... unlil they have had the opportunity to be approved , which as far as I
know, they haven't. I asked Alan If he was aware if there was a telephone poll or why these minutes -'lere here .
As you can see , they are not even a month old . So EURA is not even scheduled to meet until ne xt week and
there Is some factual stuff thal is incorrect lhere . Starting on page 1 with the Cha ir being absen t, but yel the
Chair asked for approval of minules ... Chair Weeks . And there are some thh1rJs that are said In lhere that are
incorrect I mean the substance there is correct , but I just want to reiterate again , I will not support ... and I want
to make that really clear ... minutes that are not approved by a Board ... be in g published before the-1 are approved
by a Board .
Counc il Member CJkley sa id just from reading the minutes, I thought that yot , were put on a spot a couple of
times ... trying to defend what Council has decided and I though t we should ji.st discuss that Mayor Woodward
soid yes .
(iv) Council Member Wilson :
I . She sa id last Wednesday I was with the calendar art group with all the kids . And if >'OU look at the art
work it is amazing , because you need to look at their ages then you can see how short they are. I mean , they
have these huge pictures and they are these tiny little kids . It is amazing . They are all phenomenal and hats off
to kids that at least try to draw .
• Council Member Mccaslin sa id does shortness equate to ... Ms . Wilson said well they go up . we call their
names and they go up and they point to their picture and there 's th is huge picture with th is little tiny girl. So ,
anyway , I thought it was cute .
2. She sa id I did have questions about Greg MIiier's whole ... the iinpact and what is happening with
Plann ing and Zon ing , so yes, I would like to hear more about that and what they decided .
3. She sa id thank you to the people who came to the Publ ic Hear in g and I appr.ciate people that do th is.
mean , it shows that you care .
4. She sa id also I believe Eagle , the garbage disposal people ... ! believe that th ey pick up only ai !he front
of your yard ... they have the blue cans . So anyway , they are ose , you know , that picks up even if you don 't have
an alley , but you do have to buy the ir th in g.
Counc il Member Jefferson sa id interesting that you would have to purchas e the can , is that right? Ms . Wilson
said I believe so . You know , I use somebody else beca use my garbage is out back . And I don 't want to hsul
the huge can to the front yard . since they won 't go down the alley .
Mayo r Woodward sa id I th ink it picks it up by the truck , th e truck picks it up an d that's why . Mr. Jefferson said I
th ink you are right . Ms . Wilson sa id yes .
(v) Council Member Jeffe rso n:
1. He said I just wdnte d to congratulate th e Police Citizen 's Academ y for hav ing that second cl ass and
congratulate the gre.du ates . I think it Is an exce llent program keep in g Pol ice in touch with the community and
partn ering togetner to get the results we want
• 2. He sa id I hope th at Mr . Mi ll er has the opportu nity to appeal , so that he can get ba ck in front of us . Am I
corre ct in the process? City Attorney Brotzman sa id correct Mr. J~fferson said if he does appeal ... th eo
Englewood City Council
November 3, 2008
Page ~2
ulti mately it wi ll come bac k to t..,o , ·nciL Mr . Brotzman said it will come bac,: to Council , correct. Mr. Jefferson
sa id okay and hopefully he is a .. :.re of that and then we will have an oppo1unlty to learn more about tha t.
3. He sa id I too wanted to thank all the ne ighbors and folks who came to speak at the Publ ic Hearing and
aga in today . Their input is invalua ule , altho ugh it didn 't quite get me over the hump to convince me that the 5%
ru le isn 't a good pol ic y. It did rem ind me that we do need to seriously consider commun ity input when
development is going into neighborhoods. And , I am not sure where it is going to go from here , perhaps it's
dead ... perhaps the political will has died to push it forward or perhaps it will move forward in a different format ,
but we wil : ce rtainly keep you folks informed as we do that process .
4. He said to Shannon , I did want to thank you for bringing up the issue tnat I was totally unaware of ... that
we had li mited amount of trash haulers in District 1, so we will see ... hopefully we can have some disc uss ion on
that. get some facts ... find out exactly what the situation is and come up with a solution that works well for the
City . Whether that is changing someth ing or not , I can 't say at th is time, but hop efully we at least thank you for
bringing it to our attention .
13. City Manage~• Report
(a) City Manager Sears said I just wa •led to bring to your attention , a letter I passed out earlier this
evening . I didn 't put it in the packet in part , because I wanted to note that it is from Swedish , from Mary White . I
did talk to Mary White and to Julie and they wanted to sincerely express the ir apprec iation to City Council for the
passion that the Council expressed on behalf of the public rights within ou r City . They are very sincere about
that. They were very sincere in that they really appreciate the comments and they have taken a lot of action
amongst themselves to try to work through ... on their own property ... to deal with the smoking situation . So , I
just wanted to note that they really did have a very strong feeling of support for the Council and the direction
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where the City is going , •
Council Member Jefferson sa id that letter was really ne ighborly of them and hopefully that will alleviate some of
the concerns in the neighborhood there . I thought it was very proact ive of them .
City Manager Sears sai d it was very proactive and they really are look in g forward to do ing that. Plus , I'll tell you,
the inside of their build ing Is outstanding . They will be opening that up , I thin k, In the next month . The atrium Is
incredible . It is really go ing to be a very nice asset to Englewood , so we should get an Invitation .
14 . City Attorney's Report
City Attorney Brotzman did not have any matters to bring before Ccu r.cl;.
15 Adjournment
MAYOR WOODWARD MOVED TO ADJOURN . The meeting adjo urned at 10:47 p.m.
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