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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008-12-15 (Regular) Meeting Minutes• • ENGLEWO OD CITY COUNCIL ENGLEWOOD, ARf,PAHOE COUNTY , COLORADO Regular Se11lon December 15, 2008 1. Call to Order The regula , rnt>elins of the Englewood City Council was called to order by Mayor Woodward at 7:37 p.m. 2. Invocation The invocation was gi ven by Council Member McC asl ; . 3. Pledge of Allegiance The Pledge of Alleg iance was led by Council Member Mccaslin . 4. Roll Call Presen t: Absen t: A quorum was present. Also present: Council Members Moore , Penn , Oak ley , Mccaslin, Wil son , Woodward Council Member JRfferson City Manager Sears City Attorney Brotzman Deputy City Manager Flaherty Deputy City Clerk Bush City Clerk Ell is Sales Tax Aud itor Deba illon , Finance and Adm inistrative Services Director White, Community Development Planning Techn ici an Kirk, Commun ity Development Commander Condreay, Po ll e 5. Conalderatlon of Minutes of Pravloua Session (a) COUNCIL MEMBE~ MOORE MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER PENN SECONDED , TO APPROVE THE MINUTES C\,~ T'l E REGULJR CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF DECEMBER 01, 2008 . Mayor Woodward asked if there are any correctio ns or mod ifications . There were none . Vote reaulta : Ayes : Nays : Absen t: Motion carried . Council Members Penn , Mccasl in, Moore , Woodward , Wilson . Oakley None Council Mem ber Jefferson 6. Recognition of Schedu le d Public Comment • !Clerk 's Note : Counc il Membe r Jeffe rson joir.ed the mee ti ng at 7:39 p.m.) (a) Mr7or Woodward said Tom Rothe , a re presentative of the Keep Englewood Bea utiful Commission will present the 2008 Holiday Light ing Awa r1s . t saw Tom as I walked In. I had been th inki ng Englewood City Council December 15, 2008 Page 2 earlier today I wonder if Tom will be weari ng pants . There was laughter. I asked Tom about that and he said he compromised and wore a coat. Five degrees . I will gi ve it to you and to Audra Kirk from Commun ity Development. Mayor Woodward said Bob do you want to participate too? Council Member Mccaslin said I would like to say a few things about KEB . This is a comm ittee , Keep Englewood Beautiful , and we ha ve anywhere from ten to th irteen citizens that work on this committee . We do the leaf and tire round-up , the household hazardous wa ste, we work with the education and publ ic schools as far as environmental issues . So this committee is very active , very strong in the community and I appreci ate all of the hard work that they have done. It is just great to be on this committee and I want to thank everyone here . Tom Rothe , KEB Cha ir, said every year we have to judge entries of people put in for the holiday lighting and stuff like that and every year ii gets tougher and tougher. There are just getting to be so many people with so many interesting holiday decorations . It's a treat and we have a ball going ou t and doing it. We did it last Tuesday night. Now we are going to present the awards . Audra Kirk said for the Mayofs Choice and the first few winners , there are signs in the back and a sign out sheet so if you want to get your sign . Please come up here and get your award first. Mayors Choice Council's Choice Sugar Plum Award City Spirit Award Santi '■ Workshop Winter Wonder Honorable Mentions Cyndi Krieger and Robert Herberg Richard and Alice Kloewer The Mll!er Family Ron and Melan ie Kloewer Doug Haas Chalene, Li ll / and Jack Miller Dan and Peggy Steffens Esther Solman , Don and Darlene Patmore Sandi Linger Cra ig Hosphal David Allred Lemay Happy Hol idays for Esther Rodgers Brad and Patty Fincham Patricia A. Lobb Samantha Davis The Bodlkers 2987 South Cherokee Street 4990 South Elati Street 4104 South Sherman Street 5041 South Elati Street 4536 South Sherman 5051 South Fox Street 3290 South Elatl Street 2811 South Cherokee Street 3181 South Vine Street 3425 South Clarkson Street 4600 South S "erman Street 4597 South Acorns Street 4900 South Inca Dri>d 32 70 West Grand Avenue 4085 South Jason Street 4005 South Inca Street Each award winner or honorable mention received a round of applause . Mayor Woodward said congratulations and thank you to everyone who rece iv ed an award . There was another round of applause . 7. Recognition of Unscheduled Public Comment (a) Rick Gillit said Council and Mr. Mayor , I am an Englewood resident. I am here tonight with concerns rega rding Counc il Bill 79 . I am going to read a portion of the bill that concerns me the most wit h is "Section 16-6-10.5.d (4) permitted driveway and parking pa rl paving materials . Residential driveways and parking pads shall be improved with a ha,-:l durab le surface of concrete , asphalt, brick pavers or similar alternate mate rials approved by the City. Prohibited materials indude dirt, gravel , grasscrete or other porous mate oi al . A zoning site plan rev iew is required prior lo the start of any ,;esidential driveway or parking pad surfacin g.· I have done some search on th is bill oretty thoroughly to try and ~nd the verbiage that included grandfathering , or subject to new permit requests , er any comm ents that clarifies or states that thi s Council Bill would not affect our res idents ttrat presently have drlveways that would not fir. the new requ irements of this bill . After much consideration , speakln q with other Englewood res idents and even seekir,g legal counsel , wh ich is for clarity, I am left with only one c nclusion for the purpose of th is bill and lhat is tt,at the Council Bill 79 is ,1 ttempting to do some of the following : #1 is to pun ish well-Intentioned o ·" law-abid ing citi zens who have done nothing wrong by ma~dating that they improve their driveways, Implying that they did not meet some delegated public standard . It • • must be noted that to this poin t, other than to some of th is Councilmen and women , these citizens have met all • zon ing requ lrernenls , broken n~ City rules , have been good citizen s of this City and fa ithful tax payers . Second item , I bel ieve that this bill is trying to rnake Englewood sim ilar to a covenant controlled commun ity where excessive rules and regulations are forced upon its res idents . The is sue with this is that many people have moved to Englewood because it was no t a covenant controlled and there was freedom to live a lifestyle that met • Englewood City Council December 15, 2008 Page 3 the homeowne r s des ire with in reason . Th is includ es buying prop ert ies that did not have paved drivewa ys. Th ird item is to legislate public standards that not all agree with . In my discuss ions th is weeken d with man y of the citizens that do not have paved drives , they said that these drives have met the ir requirements and see no reason to upgrade . But it has also brought a serious econom i al Issue that I hope th is Council seriously cons iders . The irony ... the recess ion ... People are hav ing a hard time getting loans . Money Is scarce . I spoke with many retired citizens this weekend that havn very nice homes that tell me that they have no funds to use to upgrade to a paved driveway . One resident told me tha : she has lived in her home for forty years and it has never been an Issue . She asked why this Council would do that to her. She is one of the Invited guests here th is even ing and I am hoping this Council gives her a good reason and a good answer. I also spoke with residents that were on disabil ity. One lady said she 's been disabled for nine months and hasn 't been able to leave her house. She said how do I get the funds to do th is? I sa id I don 't know . You need to talk to your City Councilman . He said third thing , res idents also ask If the City was going to force this upon Its citizens , would they also pay for it. Good question. Final thought. What would the harm In just making th is Council Bill 79 address only new drivev.ay permits ? Seems like th is would be a much better alternative. Mr. Mayor and Council Members , please consider what you are do ing with this bill and its implications on our fine citizens . I would also ask th is Council to focus your efforts more on the City's economic growth and economic recovery rather than spend ing time on mandating unfair rules on ils citizens . I must also ask where do these mandates end . Are we going to hear that only certa in trees are allowed in our City and all others must be torn down? Will we be required to have brick sided homes? Will the City tell us that only certa in classes of people are allowed to live in the City? Will we start profiling what a good or acceptable citizen is? It seems silly to mention these Items, doesn't it? It is also silly for our City to mandate to its fine citizens that onl y people with paved driveways be cons idered desirable citizens . I am sure that this fine Council has better things to do with its time . I would ask that Council B11179 be defeated as written or re-written •, include veribiage as grandfathering and /or appl ies to new permits only . Thank you for your time . • Mayor Woodward said thank you . Th ere was app lause . • City Attorney Brotzman said th is is actcally out of order, so I am going to request a mot ion to respond to that particular topi c, since there are a number of people signed up to speak regard ing Council Bill 79 and driveways . COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER JEFFERSON SECONDED, TO ALLOW CITY ATTORNEY BROTZMAN TO ADDRESS COUNCIL BILL 79 OUT OF ORDER AND RESPOND ON THIS TOPIC . Mo:l on carried . Ayes : Council Members Penn , Mccaslin , Moore , Woodward , Jefferson , Wilson , Oakley Nays : None City Attorney Brotzman said this Is actually on second reading . We had a first read ing . There was a Public He aring at our last meet ing , and th is is now on second reading . One of Counc il's concerns and questions is exuclly the one you addressed. It is gra ndfathe ri ng . At the Publ ic Hearing , the Community Development Department explained that th is is gran ciathering . Th is is a very simple ordinance . It Is coord inating two th ings . One Is there are a variety of definitions fo e pavers , brick and they didn 't match . They coordinated those . Second is ... there was a 6,000 and 7,000 pound tr '< we ight lim it. That has been coordinated so ii all reads exactly the same ... all the signage throughout Engl . >Od is 7,000 pounds ... il coord inates that. The driveway issue is simply clean ing up so all the defi niti ons match . The way that the Zoning Ordinance works is it only appl ies to new development. All that came out in the Pub li c Hearing . Sadly , nobody was at the first reading or al the Public Hearing , but that was clarified by CD staff. So , what you have asked for on the grandfathering Issue has been expla ined and it is exactly what you are asking for . Mayor Woodward said I just want to point out , that al the very first read ing , when the staff Senior Planner had presented this , I brought it up about grandfathering and wanted to make sure that this did ;,ct impact nny ex isting driveways nf any citizens that had gravel , aggregate ... exactly the th ings that you are discussing . That was confimned by th e staff member. At second read ing , or at the Public Hearing, I had asked to make sure that is was part of the presentat ion and it is in our meet ing minutes that were just approved tonight , which state that ther e i;re no changes to the parki ng requ irements and no changes lo requiring driveways to be brought up to the Englewood City Council December 15, 2008 Page 4 new code standards . So , in other words , existing driveways and park ing pads are grandfathered In unt il there is some type of development act ion that re qu ires them to meet thJ new standards Mr. Gill i! sa id Mr. Mayor , I am only go ing by what was on the site as of today . There was no ment ion of grandfathe ring existing . Has that been changed? City Attorney Br0tzm an sa id it is the way the Zon ing Ord inance act ually works . Is there a grandfather ing clause in the ord inan e? No . But the way that the Zoning Ord inance works is it only appl ies in the sections that are addressed . It only app li es to new development. Mr. Gilli! sa id would it not be out of order to ask , to help our citizens get a good , warm fuzzy , that we a~d th~: verbiage in , just for clari ty ? I don 't think it would bring any harm . Mayor Woodward said that is for Council to come up with when we gel to the bill . Mr. Gillit sa id I would ask that you consider that. Thank you Mr. Mayor . Mayor Woodward sa id anything else Dan ? Mr. Brotzman said that is all . (b) Matthew Crabtree said well good evening Counc il. I am before you this even ing with a so .res of • similar concerns regarding Council Bill 79 , but first I would like to address what Dan Brotzman had ment ioned . Almost verbat im , when Tricia Langon presented the statements , when I was sitting , ri ght there , during the last Council Meet in g, during the Public Hearing And I bel ieve this is first read ing . isn 't th is first reading that you are addressing th is ton ight? But ei,ner way ... Mayor Woodward said this is second readin g. Mr . Crabtree said Publ ic Hearing , first reading , second reading . City Attorney Brotzman said no ... first reading , Public Hearing , second read in g. Mr. Crabtree sa id okay, either way ... when Tric ia Lang on presented this to Counc il , and I was • listening to that presentation, she didn 't indicate any of th is at the last Publ ic Hearing . She simply stated that this ord inance ... the changes to the Englewood Mun icipal Code under this Ordinance ... were to correct inconsistencies with the hard surfac e standards . There was no discussion of removing any item from the Ord inance , nor was there a discu ssion of any other sort . Now granted , nobody showed up at that Publ ic Hearing . I didn't. .. I was not aware of the extent that this ordinance went to , unt il I went home and read it. Now Mr. Woodward , I'm sure you and I see the same po int on th is. The grandfathering is an important th ing . But I am going to read you a section of this document and you tell me how you grandfathered th is in . Section number C ... no person shall park or store ... Mayor Woodward sa id I'm sorry ... what area ? Mr. Crabtree said its page number 2 and Section number C. I'm going to read Section number C and Subsection number 2 on page 2. Council Member Jefferson sa id I think you are talking about 11-6-2 (C), is that correct? Mr. Crabtree said that could be ... its page numbe : 2, C ... no person shall park ... that is how it starts . Okay? No person shall park or slor~ any vehicle on private property in violation of the following restrictions . I'm going to go to Subsection nun . ,er 2 now. No veh icle shall be parked in the front or in front of the front setback of the principal structure unlr·. located on a hard, durable surface of concrete , asphalt, brick pavers or sim ilar alternate materials . W.,at's stricken from the word ing is gravel. Go back and check the record . Both limes when Tricia Langon pre sented this it was under the terms of rectifying inconsistenc ies in the wording . Whe n I see, or when I th ink of inco ns isten ci es , I th ink of changing the wording from gravel to crushed aggregate or aggregate to crushed gravel , not excludin g a right that is allowed to the citizens right now. Now bac k to the top ic of grandfatherin•J. How can th is be grandfathered In? No person ... l am a person ... no vehicle ... ! have a vehicle ... ! park on a gravel driveway . Thi s allows way too much interpretal'on and as th is is written ri ght now , ever person in this City that has a gravel driveway , it could be interpreted in a manner that they are not allowed to park in their driveway . I won 't argu e with you that grandfathering in the driveway itself is probably not the problem . The problem is th is part icular word ing here . This is my concern . That this word in g states specif ically that no person 5hall park or no person shall park on the front , bas ica lly grav 0 I driveway of their property . That's where my concern comes with this . Grandfathering , I don't see how that can be grandfathered . Think about it Do I have a little bit lo nger here? Mayor Woodward said I thought you were finished . Mr . Crabtree said I have another • qu ick po int. Now there seems to be a lot of history with this top ic. Speak ing with a previous Council Member earlier today , th is Counc il member ind icated that two years ago , there were a series of complaints that were received, to the Coun cil Member, that Code Enforceme nt had been try ing to enforce park ing on ce rtain surfaces within the City . I am not entirely sure how that is possible , because this ordinance is before us th is evening . But • • • Englewood City Council December 15, 2008 Page 5 lhen again , six monlhs ago , dur ing a Study Session , City Coun ci l discussed parking surfaces ,n th is Ci ty During that discuss io n it was disc ussed ... il won 't ii prevent peo ple from parkin g on certain surfaces in the Ci ty , won't prevent people from par ki ng their RVs on the side of their house . Well !'I, tell you what ; Counc il Bill 79 will certa inly prevent people fr om do ing that by the exact de fin ition of that. Now, if there is grandfather ing , particularly th is statement here , In Section C there , that I just read ... ls as it reads ... sounds like ... and ce rta inly loo ks like it's go ing to be a retroactiv e law for the peo ple in th is commun ity . We need clarificat ion and the members of this commun ity requ ire clarification on what that means and how that could possibly be grandfathered . Than k you for you r time . Mayor Woodward sa id thank you . There was applause . (c) Steve Yates , an Englewood resident , said Coun ci l, I realize that you are stating that this is grandfathered in. Th is is in regards to Council Bill 79 . We all know that when the Code Enforcement person co mes up and says you are in violatio n of a certain ord inance , they don 't bother to expl ain all of the Code Enfo rcement r•J les so if you have in one section that says this is grandfathered in, they are not going to show you that. What they are going to show you Is something like this . Section 16-6-10 (5) (d) (4). It reads 'permitted driveway and parking pad paving materials , residentia l driveways and parking pad shall be im proved '. Those are the exact words in there , 'with hard durable surface of concrete brick pave rs or similar alternative materials approved by the City . Prohib ited mate rials include dirt , gravel , grasscrete or other po rous materials '. That's what the person will see . They are not going to see ano ther section that says ... oh , by the way, disregard eve rything we say here . You are gra ndfathered in. Okay . So , it is poorly written . I would also like to mention that I did speak to 50 people in a five block radius . Out of these 50 people , I ran across two individuals that were mentally disabled , two that were physically disa bled and in all cases , you co uld obv iously tell that they could not afford to make these type of improvements , nor could some of the se gu ys handle the accusations that the y need to improve it. So , here aga in, it is not very clear. Now I did find two indiv iduals that were in lavor of improving the surfaces , but in both cases , they were renters . So , we are not talking about the people who actually pay the taxes here . Let's see . Someone has already ment ioned that our economy is th at it makes It imposs ible for people to live up to the way this bill is presently written . I will urge the Council to table this bill or ma ke ii easy for the publ ic to understand . Not an attorney , but the publ ic or the people . Because the people are the ones that give you the ability to do what you are do in g up there . And you are here to serve the people , not rule the people . City Council. please , table this bill . Thank you . There was app lau se . (d) Doug Cohn , an Englewood resident , sa id good evening . I ha ve se ve ral questions about Cou· ,c il Bill 79 as well. Some abou t the driveways and some about a couple of earli er pieces as well . The first one , 16- 5-4 (D) (1) (b) the ·use of any motor veh icle or trailer ... out of which or from which any goods are sold or stored , any serv ices performed , or other business conducted , shall be proh ibited In all zone districts·. I sa id what in th e wo rld was that? That means that the Schwann 's ice cream truck can 't make a de livery to my house . My carpet cleaner can 't come . The UPS guy can 't drive do wn my street. I don't th ink that's what you intend but tha t's the way it is written . The second one , '11-6-2 (C) (3) and 16-5-4 (0) (2) (c) (1) -'in no event shall more than one co mmercial ve hicle be stored on property in any residential zone district , whether in a priva te garage , ca r po rt or on the property anywhere ... • I got to th ink ing, private garage ? Are the Code Enforcem ent guys going to come and look Int o the windows in my garage? That is kind of cree py . With respect to the reside nt ia l dr iveways and park ing pads ... You mentioned Dan that it was talked about being gran dfa th ere d in . What I'm do ing Is rea ding the ordinan ce and there 's nothing even hint ing that. I looked at the Sections around th !s, going all the way back to Section 11 , or Chapbr 11 and Sect io n 16 , I didn 't find any discussio n on that. It might be that I just didn 't see it. What I've discovered in the world of law , shall is a very powerful word . It is a coercive sort of word . I hav~ a stick and you 're going to do it. I guess as I read the safety clause at the end of the thing here, the safety clause says that the City ('.ounc i: hereby finalizes and declare s that th is ordinance is promulgated under gene ral police power and promu !Jaled for the health , safety , and welfare of the public and this ordinance is ne ces sary for th e preservation of hea lth and safety and for th e protect ion of public conven ience . I as , d myself, how does th is do that ? Is a gravel driveway or a dirt driveway and the ot he r th ings that we talk ed about he re , are th ose threats to pub lic health and safety? I don 't understand . It just seems kind of odd to me . I did wan t to say one pos itive Englewood City Council December 15, 2008 Page 6 thing at the end . You guys worked and worked and worked on the Business Improvement Distr ict flag issue and I apprec iate that you worked that through and got it all done . I will say thank you as one of the guys in the BID . I guess one of the things that distressed me about that was that over three meetings . you just talked and talked and talked about what should the flags look like . what material and all that sort of stuff and maybe that ·s a useful discuss ion . As a bus iness guy. what I was feeling was that we can ·t trust those business guys . We need lo supe ivise to make sure that their flags meet our specs . As a business guy . I think you can trust us . At least . give us a chance . If we do well. you do well . Thanks . Mayor Woodward sa id thank ycu . There was applause . (e) Jerry Furman said at the last meeting I talked ab r.ut the Rec Center declining us and saying that we could not play there . \Me finally got to tal k to the Englewood R,,. Lo.·••••r guy and he actually sa id we could do it at Malley Center and we are doing it Ma ll~·/ CP,ntor and Ch ,,. • : ., ;l<,. we have a schedule for the Southsider Tigers , so come join us if you guys iw a" u, coMe · .icf w~·•...:n a Jame . Several Council members thanked Jerry . There was applause . (f) Colleen Chandler . an Engl ewood resident. sa!<t I jus t ·✓12nted to voice that I agree with everybody else here about the driveways . I. for one . cannot alford it. I don 't th ink I need to improve it. I don 't see a safety Issue with my drivewa y and I just wanted to have my voice heard as wel l... that I would appreciate ii • if you guys would rethink th is bill . rewrite this bill because you are saying that I am going to be grandfathered . • but I also don 't see thut that is being addressed in tne bill . That ie. all I have lo say . Thank you very much . Mayor Woodward said thank you. There was applause . (g) Donna !'nanahan sa id mine is, again . on the driveway . I am a one income person . My driveway . yes . ii needs to be fixed . I was go ing to fix it. II is going to cost me $4.500 .00 . I•m sure that there are a lot of people out here that can ·t afford $4,500 .00 to have it fixed . I keep II clean . I•ve got grass growing In there . My neighbors have grass and vegl's and everything growing in hers ... but anyway . We cannot accept that we have to put in a cement driveway . I was also told the other day . well . if you don·t get it put In. you ·11 have a warrant out for your arrest. Come on now ... for a driveway? Mayor Woodward said may I ask who told you that ? Ms . Shanahan said one of these gentlemen here . I·m not sure . I don •t know exactly \/ho it was . Mayor Woodward said it was nobody from the City . but one of...'/ Ms . Shanahan sa id yes . He was bringing around a sheet of paper that was saying that th is is all by law and telling me . and he had his son with him. and he says if you don ·t have this done , they ·11 put out a warrant fo r yo ur arrest and bring you ... you know ... for this . Let·s don ·t do that. Lei's don·t even go that far. Th is is ridiculous . {Clerk ·s note : Steve Yates sooke from the aud ience and part of his comments were not discernable .) Sieve Yates said I would li ke to say I don ·t re call saying warrant. I would say that you would be in violat ion if they chose to enforce it. Mayor Woodward said okay . let's let her complete ... Ms . Shanahan said okay ... but. again . $4 .500 .00 and mine is a small driveway . There are other people that • have double wides . It's going to cost them 10 grand at least. II is not worth it. And If they have ni <..t> gravel in there or nice rocks or whatever. paved with stones . or whatever . why change It now . It dra ins . it works . That's it. • • • Englewood City C~"ncll December 15, 2008 Page 7 Mayor Woodward sa id thank you . There was applause . (h) Randy Condit , an Englewood res ident, said good even ing . Jim, I think you actually met me this summer at cur ne ighborhood party . I have a little yellow cottage . I have spent a lot of money kind of restoring it. I actually took the driveway out and put gravel in because I am trying to turn the house into a cottage , so every one keeps say ing upgrade to cement. I don 't get it. I would rather fall down on a pile of gravel , then fall down on a hard surface. So , I don 't know about the safety is sue . Maybe some clarification on what grave l is versus ... l'm using rocks that are a certain size ... is that gravel? Or is gravel really small rocks ? So , I j ust got a sheet in front of my house and saw the issue , too and I just needed some clarity as to kind of what was go ing on . Just because the reality is ... I didn 't understand the upgrade . I th ink that is all I really have to say . I keep the weeds out of it. The park ing sit uation , that people have mentioned here seems to not have a lot of clarity too as to whether I park a car in there ... whether that would be against an ord inance or not...grandfather or not . I am not an attorney , so I am not sure . But it sounds like everyone is ra ising some good iss ues that you guys should consider. That is all I have to say . Mayor Woodwa rd said thank you . There was applause . (i) Thomas Kelly , an Englewood res ident , said I lived at my present address for the last 16 years . have about 1 ~~ foot , double wide driveway that's gravel. It drops probably two to three feet from stre et level to my garage , which sits right along the City Ditch . If I wa s to pave that , I would have water fiow right from my garage every time it rained heavy . Though you may not consider that something ... that that is my problem , not yours . However , my 1eighbor ... two feet away from my garage ... has a sunken yard that is four to five feet dow n below ... along t;ity Ditc h level . I would fill his backyard up with water in a heavy rain , if I was to pave it. Now I know you have site revie w and planning as part of the Code and I am sure an engineer , which I am a professional eng ineer , would t~!I vcu that when hb came to look at it. Ind ividual circumstances need to be taken into account. I know that you said this is grandfathered . I agree with people that have read the language ... that it needs clarifying . That is all I have to say . Mayor Woodward said thank you . There was applause . U) Erik Larson , an Englewood resident , said I don 't have a whole lot more to ;ay than what has already been said . It's been said pretty powerfully and pretty clearly . I spoke with my neighbor who has a true gravel driveway and has lived there for 50 some years. She was no t able to make the meeting tonight. I told her I would go on my behalf and her behalf and inform her as to what the dec ision was of the Council ton ight. I think there are many great things tha t go on in the City and th is is something that maybe , at one time , made more sense than it may have when you have some public review and co mment. That is all I hav e to say. Thank yo u for your time . Mayor Woodward sa id thank yo u. There was applause . (k) Anita Bohrer, an Englewood res ident , said I ha ve never been to a Council meet ing before . I just want tu thank our great citizens for bringing tills to my attent io n, as I hav e a dirt driveway . I only found out about it yesterday morning . When I rolled out of bed my husband told me . I'm not that eloquent of a speaker, so I am just going to speak from my heart. I had three questions when I woke up yesterday morn ing and he showed me a notice and told me what was going on . Whose brilliant ide a is this ? Be ca use I certainly won 't be voting for them next ti me . Who has a relative or fam ily member that is in the asphalt and flat work business or acc epted some campa ign contributir 1s from an asphalt and flat work compan y? Who is getting hurt or has every gotten hurt from my dirt driveway / In the 18 yea rs I have lived in Eng lewood , I have never rece ive d one co mplaint Englewood City C<>uncll December 1~, 2008 Page 8 about my dirt driv eway , I feel horribly junged by my City Coun cil for th is. What ,10 ,~~ have against families that live in humble circumstances? We have owned au · house for 18 years . We hr"e not pul mon,,y In to improving it. We 've ra ised four ch ildren in a 700 square foot home . I challenge anybody to do that . We 've done a fine job . Two of them are grown . One of them ... l'm sure you are not eve,, aware ... is Jack Kent Coo k Scholar . He Is the first student in the State of Colorado to be awarded that honer He went around the world in 2007 /2008 and he Is now studying over In Lugano , Switzerland . It takes every f.'!lnny rny family has to keep that be~ afloat. He is a nationally recognized scholar . The other son has graduate,, from HiJh Sc.hJol one year early and Is at ACC . If you force us to pave our driveway , he 's going to lose out on , sr::11 ea ter's tuition , maybe two . Ok•y. We are humble people . We don't look like our neighliors . You don't kn'."" wrnt my children are doing . They 1re doing great th ings and they come from here . I'm just absolutely c~rcain ye u know nothing of the citizen 's struggles that have dirt driveways or gravel driveways or the ir houses ere a lilt'e n.n down . But you are discriminating aga inst us If you enforce this it is going to make us make some very difficult ch,ices in my fam ily . I cannot believe that the City of Englewood wishes to direct citizen property im provement and thus you are seizing control over our family budgets in a time of economic recession . In the pa st two years , two houses in my block have been foreclosed on . One of them has a dirt driveway . Do you thin, th, I dictating citiz ens pave their driveways will improve their pocketbook or their financial situation or their econom ic conditions? When I moved here 18 years ago , I was not aware I was mov ing into a covenant community . This law is someth ing yo u wou ld find In a covenant community . I believe , and I still believe , that as long as I am paying my mortgage payment, paying my taxes and my pertinent obligations, the City of Englewood ha~ no right to tell me how to im prove my property or how to delegate my Income to do so . Thank you . Mayor Woodward said thank you . There was applause . • (I ) Liz Frank said I appreciate the opportunity to speak tonight. Like many people here tonight , I • am here for the paving of the driveway . When I first heard about this, it was just very scary for me and very fearful. I live In Englewood and I have a full-tim e job , but to come up with that kin1 of money to pave my ~riveway , would really be a financial burden . Like it sounds like ii v,ould be for many people . I do my best to keep my property up , I don 't let the driveway get full of weeds . In the summer , I make sure I pull the weeds myself. I don 't believe in using chemicals , so I am out there pulling . I don 't have weeds irn my driveway , like many of us don 't... but to come up with that kind of money is these hard economic tim es to redo my driveway .. I couldn't do ii and I oon't think very many people could . I ao have a steady ... l am fortunate to have a steady , secure jco . I appreciate your time and your attention and I hope that the people making th is decision , will think abou t people lik e me . Thank you . Mayor Woodward said thank you . There was applause . (n") Paul Hendricks , an Englewood resident, said I just wanted to point someth ing out to you guys ... if yo J ~now me and my occupation , you would know real quick why I would figure th is out. I went to college in California , in Los Angeles, where it is 112 square miles of pavement. And that water all goes somewhere . II goes down a giant shoot and goes out lo the office . They are In drought there. We are in drr•,ght here . When you start pav ing too much , at some point you will reach a tipping point and all you are go ing to do is cause a lot of erosion along the South Platte . II is good that the rain seeps in through gravel and through other materials . The fact of the matter, it was pointed out to me , that it does seep some into concrete . That i; why concrete cracks . Bui it ba sically runs off of concrete . Just for ecological reasons , to get that subsoil moisture up ... l wouldn 't recommend concrete to anybody. That's all I ha ve to say . Mayor Woodward said thank you . There was applause . (n) Lau rett Barrentine , an Englewood res ident , sa id Matt Crab tree asked me a couple of questions when he had come to the Counc il meeting ... about what had happened on Council during the four years that I • • • Englewood City Council December ·i 5, 2008 Page 9 sat on there and whether th is was someth ing that had already been on th ere .. what the history of it was . Anc the reason that th ere is some clarifi cation here ls be cause for some time it ha~ alreac'. been in thers that yoL need to park on a hard surface . The th ings in your backyard need to be parked on . .,t, back ... it needs io be on a hard surface . The clarification that is going on here is to go ahead and minimize what hard surface is. ,o, in a way , you were already grandfathered in, when it was just a ~ard surface ... gravel counted . Now we are putting in tighter regulations . What you also don 't realize , with th is whole grandfather ing issue , is that to a certa in extent , this has already been being enforced on a hard surface ... depenrting on how ii was in terpreted . I also spent four years as liaison on Code Enforcement. So , I am a little confused when you act smug and kir,d of giggle up there ... that you don 't thin k that these people understand that there is concern here , because then has already bee n enforcement , by Code Enforcement , on the hard surface issue for gravel and dirt . It has been somewhat se lective and I understand why you are try ing to clean it up . so that you could go ahead and ha v,, it specifically state that you can 't have dirt and gravel. My other concern is that, couple of citizens got togett ,er and brought people out here who had concern ... so chastising th em for not b•ln!f part of the Publ ic Hearing last week ... when somebod y just spent a couple of days and put a few flyers out au found out that people had this kind of concern with this iss ue ... is somewhat inappropriate . They have every right to be just as heard this • ime , as they would for the Public Hearing that they didn 't know about. That is all I have to say . Mayor Woodward said thank you . The,e was applause . (o) Danielle Carr , a• ,nglewood resident , said we al so have a very long dit1 driveway . We pirk multiple cars there . My husband was in the painting bus iness for a number of years and we needed that •com to accommodate . They we , not necessarily commerc ial vehicles , but we did have signage on them . I a!)ree with what has h"~n spoken about ... be ing able to not live in a covenant. We really liked Englewood for th 31 naturr. That we fe lt that we could have our home and do what most people want to do in their own ham, is :Ive there and do wh at it takes to live there with your own property . So , when we saw the notice on our door, we were very thaakful that we would be able to be given a chance to speak against these changes . For common people like us ... we are ra ising five kids in a very small home and like Anita sa id, it would be very difficult fur us to have to put out a lot of money to pave or even do bri ck cavers or any kind of upgrade to the house ... v1he ,1 we need to make su, d we are meeting the needs of our children and doing wh at we can to run our house ho d So , thank you for your consideration and if we had the money to do and if Engl ewood was willing lo pay for that...sure , we would be happy to do somethin g different to au, dr iveway . But as it stands , we are not able lo do that. So, thank you for ycur time . Mayor Woodward said thank you . There was ai:~tause . (p) I.cu Ma "am , an Englewood re side nt , said I agree with the people that are speaking clar ficalion on some of these is sues . I would also like to bring up the point that even whe n zoning is ... well , let me e: :plain . I recei ved a notice about a derelict veh icle about 18 months ago and I •ectifi ed th e issu e. But , durin :, that 'i me , when I asked th e zo ning offic er what cons titutes a hard surface ... she wou ld not ans wer my quest ions . ,.,, she wou ld do was read what was written and she did not have the ability , nor wou ld take the opportun ity , to c arif; that for me . And it was very difficult for me to fi gure out what I needed to do . I would just like to say that nore clarification in these matters ... and also, when zoning perso nnel come O'JI and give you the notice ... that L ,ey wo uld have the ab ility and would ta~e the time to cla rify th ings a little bit better for peon le , they woui~ hav, a much better understa nding of what they need to do to take care of the situa!iuns . Th c;t's al l I need tn sa y. Thank you . Mayor Woodward sai d thank you . • There was applause . 8. Communications , Proclam,tlons and Appointments Englewood City Council December 15, 2008 Page 10 There were no communications , proclamations or api-,ointments . 9. Consent Agenda (a) Approval of Ordinances on First Reading There were no items submitted for approval on fir st reading . MAYOR WOODWARD REMOVED AGENDA ITEM 9 b (I) .COUNCIL BILL NO . 79, FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA FOR SE?ARATE DISCUSSION , COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE MOVF.O , ANO COUNCIL MEMBER PENN SECONDED, TO APPROVE CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS 9 (b) (Ii) and 9 (c) (I), (Ii), (b) Approval of Ordinances on Second Reading (ii) ORDINANCE 73 , SERIES OF 2008 (COUNCIL BILL NO . 80 , INTRODUCED BY COUNC IL MEMEBR MOORE) AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 5, BY DELETING CHAPTER 5, AND AMENDING CHAPTER 8, SECTION G, OF THE ENGLEWOOD MUNICIPAL CODE 2000, PERTAINING TO MASSAGE THERAPY . (c) Resolutions and Motions . (i) RESOLUTION NO . 87 SERIES OF 2008 A RESOLUTION APPOINTING AND REAPPOINTING THE SOUTH BROADWAY ENGLEWOOD BUSINESS IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT BOARD OF DIRECTORS . (ii) A PROFESSIONAL SERVICE CONTRACT FOR AN ENGLEWOOD DOWNTOWN AND MEDICAL DISTRICT MASTER URBAN DESIGN AND PUBLIC IMPROVEMENT PLAN. Vote r•,ulta : Motion carried . Ayes : Council Members Penn , Mccaslin , Moore , Woodward, Jefferson , Wilson , Oakley Nays : None 9 b (i) Mayor Woodward said now we will have discuss•on on Counc il Uill No . 79 , wh ich is the bill which ·he majority of the speakers spoke of lonight. Mayor Woodward said there are a couple of things that I would like lo address . The first Is that th ere was no ind ivid ual Council Member that brought this forward . Th is was brought forward through Code Enforcement and Community Development. And it had to do with ... the purpose of the amendments for both sets is fer con sistency in the Titles of the Municipal Code . Specifically , Title 11 , Title 15 and Title 16, which had different definitions for hard surfaces . So , that was the purpose of this . Again, as I stated earlier, in th e very first... the first hearing ... I made the point of stating or asking the question about grandfathering , because I wanted to clarify that. Personally , I believed I knew the answer , because it has to do with a zoning iss ue . And as an example , if and when we have changed build ing codes , things like that.. .. for ex amp le ... electricai , • • plumbing ... those sorts of things ... It doesn 't go back and say that your current stuff is grand fathered in. ii is • grandfathered in , unless you come and change your electrical service or upgrade plumbing or do somelh ing like Iha !... then you upgrad e that to the current code . And Ms. Lang on, the Senior Pl ann er, pninted out that yes , th is is gra ndfathered in and It would only go into effect if you were to pull a permit and change something there which regard to ... as I would understand it...your driveway . At the !'oblic Hearing I specifically asked Tric ia, • • • Englewood City Council De cember 15 , 2008 Page 11 prio r to the meetin~. that she be sure to po int out in he r presentat ion that th is was grandfathered in. Now , if there is a pla ce in Council Bill 79 to state someth ing like that. .. I think it is a given and I would like to ask Dan , the City Attorney , if that is the fact... what is your opinion on that? City Attorney Brotzman said aga in the current driveways ... it was Planning and Zon ing giving it to you . The ir intent was ... the exact understand ing of cos t and Issue involved . Council considered the exact same thing , wh ic h is not mak ing it a burden on those with current driveways ... th is was simply clarifying that was the whole idea . If you would like to add a grandfathering cl ause as Section 12 , you can do that. II doesn 't even requ ire a second reading . We can simply add a new Se ction 12 with the grandfathering clause . It is non-substantive . That is why there is no serond reading , because th e intent was that these items be grandfathered In. It is simply a clean-up ord inance to make all of the sec tions read the same . I should address ... it also changes one item ... which is the one zon ing category that was 6 ,000 pounds was changed to 7,000. It's simply a clean-up ordinance ... not a substantive issue . Mayor Woodward said is there some language you would recommend for Section 12? City Attorney Brotzn •an said we can just put in our standard grandfather clause as to driveways . That those with current driveways th, t are gravel or dirt would be allowed to continue . Mayor Woodward sa id exi sting driveways will be grandfathered in, basically . Mr. Brotzman said right. Mayor W~odward sa id with the new technoiogy ~nd Google Earth and those sorts of things , there are many ways of see ing what was there ... what is there at any given time . Mayor Woodward raid Council , is there some discuss ion that you would like to have regard ing tha i ? Council Member Penn said mine is still on the enforcement. And granted we can get a map of everything , but telling who has got the ir current and who doesn 't... I th ink somehow we have to relay that to our Code Enforcement. City Attorney Brotzman said the really nice th ing is that you have a brand new commander sitting over there that understands that. Hopefully, the folks that went out and talked to all the neighbors ... I mean they were talk ing to a lot of ne ighbors ... hopefull y, when we put the gran !father clause back in ... since you don 't want to pan ic the neighbors about driveways, they will go out and talk to the very same neighbors and say that th is is grandfathered in . What's wanted , is exactly what Council considered and what they did. Mr . Penn sa id thank you . Mayor Woodward said I can assure you , in my op inion , nobody up here intended to make somebody change from ;,~qir exi sting driveway , to a concrete driveway or pavers . Council Member Jefferson sa id I agree . I th ink that has sort of been the intention all along . And in hearing from a lot of the folks in our community , I generally categorize their comf'lents into four separate categories . I th ink each one warrants a little bit of our discussion and /or some feedba ,: This first issue , of course , was the grandfathering issue and I think we need to be very clear that if yo u don 't do anything to your property , that you do no t need to upgrade to a cement driveway . So , I hope everyone is clear on tha t...going forward . I will com e back , actua lly, to that issue on another issue I am go ing to bring up . The other issues that I saw some of the comments ln ... were enforcement issues , clarlficatlo n to general lay people ... our citizens ... on understand ing the laws that govern them ... and then finally , the merits of go ing with gravel or concrete . I saw those as' •,r separate issues . The first one , I think we all can agree ... ii was everyone 's Intent on Council, I bel ieve , to ma ke sure that folks that have gravel driveways are not bu rdened and asked to put in concrete drivew ays . The second issue was enforcemen t... and I will ask for som e add itional commen t... I think I heard some comment say ing that some people were being enforced against. Can we get some clarification on that? Mayor Woodward said I am go ing back to the or iginal prese ntation and I be lieve it ma y have co me from our P & Z ... on the work sessions that they had on it. Part of the problem was that because th ere was these different defin itions ... coming from different Titles ... that Code was ... there was some confus ion as to which defin ition fi t where . And that was one of the reasons for the cons istency , so there wa s a single defin ition and not different definiti ons in the thr~e . Gary would you have ,;ny ... Council Member Jefferson '..a id defin iti on of hard surface yo u mean ? Mayor Woodward sai d yes . Mr. Jeffe rson sa id so some people ... some Cod e Enforcement Offi cers then were confu sed about what constituted a hard surfa ce and what didn 't constitute a hard surfac-.. And gravel ... some of the Code Enforce ment Officers mistakenly , I think ... right...didn 't think that gra ve l was included Englewood City Council December 15 , 2008 Ptge 12 in that? So , those peop le were written up , but the ultimate result of that , I am assuming , we did not enforce against that , because Iha! was allowed to have gravel. City Attorney Brotzman sa ,J the issue really came in new deve lopment plans . Code Enforcement sa id grave l was allowe~. When it got to Tille ·•6 ... lhe zoning people , if you brought in a new plan , they bas ically sa id, you can 't use gravel , because grav el ~-asn 'I included in Tille 16 , but ii was in other Titles . So , ii was zoni ng that was saying you can 't have gravel. Nol Code Enforcement. Council Membe r Jefferson said okay . But as it slood ... or as it stands currently , you can have gravel. Correct? Mr. Brotzman sa id correct. • Council Member Jefferson said that will bring me to my final comments on the merits of gravel versus cement. But my next one ... for clarificalion purposes for our citi zens . People wan I to undersland the laws that govern them . They want to understand what they have to do and what they don 't have to do , according to their local government Thal Is a bit of separate Issue and I think that that is something that Council needs to discuss or look al. You really have to gel out your Code ~r decoder ring to read our Code book and to understand what you have to do and what you don 't have to do . So , I th ink lhal is a totally separate issue . On this particular Ordinance , I have no probiem ... and I don't th ink anybody else on Council would ... of adding th is grandfathering clause as a non -s ubstantive amendmen t, just lo be clear and to put it out there on lhal same piece of paper saying this is being grandfathered in . And people don 't have to be concerned unless they are doing a new development or chang ing there construction of some sort that made them do that Maybe I can ask for some comments. I'm assum ing nobody would really have a problem with so•ne sort of non-substantive amendment, jusl for clarification purposes . That be ing the ca se ... l lhink that gels us to my final area of rommenls , which I really think is al the heart of lhis ordinance and really the substanlive issue here ... is do we want to mandate cement driveways on new construction and when people are changing thing :? Perhaps somebody else can hop In here and give me an idea of... My understanding Is that this was more of an environmental concern lhal, you know, porous gravel driveways would allow for antif,eeze and oil and these kind of th ings , to seep into our ground and whatnot. But hearing some of our comments from some of our citizens here ... it does seem lhal • ceme nt might do the same thing ... not just al that same location , but certainly ii would end up somewhere . So , maybe somebody can discuss ... or we can begin to discuss the merits of gravel versus cement in our new conslruction . Mayor Woodward said Wayne , did you have some comments? Council Member Oakley said yes . I certainly wouldn 't have any objection to the grandialhering clause being staled . We all understood that , bu t I certainly wo uldn 't have any objections lo that. it's the other concerns that the people have that are concerning me , as much as anyth ing . When you say ... make im provements ... lhat is very vague . Whal ki nd of im provements is ii go ing to take for them to have lo spend $3,000 .00 or $4 ,000 .00 more for a concrel~ driveway . You can landscape your front yard with crushed granite and other kinds of stone and it is cons id&r i deco ralive , but if you put ii in your drive way it's a no , no. So we are nol be ing cons is tent. Th se people have gol so me very legitimate concerns . And based on what we have done the last IWo or three yea rs when we 've had th is kind of a turnout , this much concern ... we stepped bac k and look anothe r loo k. I th ink that is what we should do in this case . Council Member Wi lson sa id I would like to look al the ram ifications of having gravel versus ·;oncrete and know how that would impact the environment. Also , I wanted lo say that i lhoughl our Code Enfor ce ment (Jfficers always , if th ey approached someone about an is sue , that there was always a friendly kind of reminder, or a friendly laiklng to ... that they wouldn 'I automatically just wrile something , that the re we r: '"3 !,orr.e kin d of fr iendly not ice . So , I am hoping that that is still happen ing ... I am assum in~ lhal it is. And I dor . lhir,k anyone is go ing to go to jail if they don 't do someth ing about th eir driveway . So , I thin k we are all safe there. But those are lhe issues I have . Mayor Woodward sa id Dan coul d you describe a little bil about what Code Enforcement. .. the Tille that they en forc e and ... for example ... lhe zoning officer ... wha t the y are enforci ng . City Att orney Brotzman said Code Enforcemen t Officers don 't do gen eral. .. what we would cons ider general criminal acts. They don 'I do speed ing tickets , they don 't do domesl ic violence . Tille 16 is zoning or lhey do lhe ilems under Tille 11 and Tille 15 , which are bas ica lly aesthet ic quality of life code issues . • • • • Englewood City Council December 15 , 2008 Page 13 Council Member Wilson sa id Dan , I wanted to ask ... does one need a perm it ? I mean if someone is going to ... is that a wa y to mon itor what is going on or enforce? City Attorney Brotzman sa id the ans we r is there Is a development plan that is required und er Title 16 if you are doing certain types of redevelopment to your property . Mayor Woodward sa id us ing ... l believe it was Wayne's exampl e ... and I'm red oing landscapin3 in my front yard and I'm putting in ag gregate and some th in gs , as far as flower beds ... would that require any type of perm itting or wou ld ii effect the 9 ·andfathering and cause me to have to put in a concrete drivewa y? Cl Attorney Brotzman said very simply pu t... no . As to the simple landscap ing issues . There Is on e Item that is less clea, than the others ... wh ich is re-graveling your dri •~way . II is one of the difficult subjects. As to anyth ing else ... you want to be careful. .. if you put in a new fen ce, you neeJ to pull a fence permit. But if you are just do in g simple lan dscaping , the answer is no . You wouldn 't be do in~ a site plan ; yo u wouldn 't be pull ing a permit. The really hard part here ... the tough line ... is re-graveling or re-doing your driveway . Even if you wen t to the requested piece , which Is concrete , putting concrete in your driveway ... you should be coming in and doing a deve lo pment plan sayi ng we changed the driveway to now be concrete . One of the re•sons you do the site plan is ... wh at our engineer spoke about... wh ich is we want to loo k at dra inage lssu,1s sc ,.~ are not harm ing your ne ighbo r and so we can have the very co nversation s that were brought up about water and other issues . Mayor Woodward said correct. .. storm drainage . Mayor ' '\/oodward sa id when you say re-graveling ... and if I am to go p0, d bags of gravel at Home Depot and fill in where gravel has pushed into the soil or has been run off or whatever ... is the re-graveling ? Whe re is the line on re-graveling? Are you talking about scrap ing out and putting new gravel into the .. City Attorney Brotz man sa id I th ink that goes to Wayne 's Is sue of clarification . The idea is leaving gravel driveways as grave l, not making them upgrade to one of the other perm itted categories . But , eventually, you would lik e the gravel driveway to cha nge ... at some po in t. So , in the grandfathering ... that would be a nice discuss io n. Code Enforcemen t Officers would really like that cla rified , because they have to talk lo these folks and that is an issue . Yes , you sl ould be able to re-gravel , but al some point they are trying to enforce that, as wo.11. .. saying let 's go lo someth ing else . Council Member Mccaslin said I kind of agree with Wayne . I think that there have been so many issues brought up that these are some issues we really need to sit dc.,in and talk about before we vote on something we can 't enforce . If we pass someth ing , it has to be enforcea,le .. a,,~ just looking out in the aud ience ... there are a lot of people out there that are saying we don 't know what w~ are do ing . So , I think we really need to address this issue before we vote on th 's again . And I agree with Wayne ... I th ink it should be tabled and brought up again . Mayor Woodward said is the re any further discussion . Randy do you have any comments? Counc il Member Penn said I agree with that and I also need to work on the enforcement is sue of this whole th ing . I'm just not sure tha t we are at that point where we cou ld act ually do it correctly . Mayor Woodward said ... John ? Council Member Moore said it socads like a good opportun ity to ma ke a motion to table this and as k lhe City Attomey to bring back grandfa theri ng language that we can rev iew , to ma ke sure it adds the cl ar ity that was obviously miss ing . And Just for my clarification ... if we stop there we can bring it off the table and bri ng it for,ia rd with second reading . If we do address issues about th e gravel or not... that may push us back to first reading . But we can make that decision when we have our ne xt discuss ion . Council Member Oakley sa id we certa inly have precedence for that. Coun cil Member Moore sa id I would lik e to make a mot io n lo ta ble ii. Mayor Woodward said ma y I ask a que stion of Dan on th is ... is the way lo do th is is tabl e ii or le delay it? City Attorney Brotzman said you c.an do either. If you tabl e it... thre e quarte rs oi Cou nci l has to vote to bring it back up or you can simple set It at this time for a oa te certain ... what ever meeti ng in 2009 . Englewood City Council December 15, 2008 Page 14 Mayor Woodward ,aid I would suggest that we set it fo, dale certain to come back up . Get it on our schedule . Council Member P•nn said can we get it or 1or Study Session aga in? Mayor Woodward said we will have a Study Sess ion first Council Member Moore said twill mod ify th at motion and we can set that dale , knowing there will be a Study Sess ion in betwe•n . Mayo r Woodward said Gary is ta king a look at that right now . City Manager Sears sa id January f,"' is the next week and two weeks later we have Martin Luther King Holiday , so that meeting will be on January 20th . Mayor Woodward asked ,.,,at was on th at a,,e~Ja . Cily Managn Sears said Board and Commission interviews . City Attorney Brotzman said we could have l~nguage for you at a Study Session on January 5'". We could then bring ii back to Council , at your regular mee :i ng , on January 20"'. Council Member Jefferson sa id if I could just ask a question . If we delay it until the 20", that giv es us a date certain when ii is going to come back to us . However , if we were to make substant ive changes or chose to make substantive changes .... City Attorney Brotzman said then it would be back on first reading , instead of seco nd . Mr . Jefferson said on the 20"? Mr. Brotzman said yes . That way the people in the audience know what day it's going lo come back here . Council Member Jefferson sa id that way they know when to come back if they are interes ted . • Mayor Woodward said ii is going to come back as second reading and with the changes , ii will then become a first read ing . Council Member Jefferson said I see ... if we chose to go that direction at that lime. But we will • have a Study Session and an opportunity to discuss some of these concerns ... enforcement...lhe ambiguity of enforcement. .. gravel versus cement. Council Member Oakley said, again , we have done this just very recenlly ... gone back to first read ing ... so this Is not breaking new ground. Council Member Jefferson sa id okay ... l just"' .,ted to gel some clarlfication ... on the distinction between delaying and tabling . Thal bein g said I will second the motion to delay for a date certain of January 20". COUNCIL .. 1.:MBER MOORE MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER JEFFERSON SECONDED, TO DELAY SECOND READING ON AGENDA ITEM 9 (b) (I) -COUNCIL BILL NO. 79, UNTIL JANUARY 20, 2009 . COUNCIL BILL NO . 79, INTRODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER WILSON AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 11 , CHAPTER 6, SECTION 2; TITLE 15 , CHAPTER 1, SECTION 2; AND TITLE 16, CHAPTERS 5, 6, AND 11 , OF THE ENGLEWOOD MUNICIPAL CODE 2000, REGARDING HARD SURFACE STANDARDS AND COMMERCIAL VEHICLE WEIGHT . Council Member Penn said is there anyway that we can have some kind of clarification between concrete and gravel. .. by th e 5"? The envir~nmental benefits ? Council Memb er Jefferson said , hopefully , at that Study Session we can get some information rationale for moving towards more concrete , rather than grave l. Ci!y Manager Sears said if I can add ... l know th e Planning and Zo ning Commission spent a lot of time of this issue . Also , prior Counc il 's have also taken a look al this Is sue and we can provide data to City Council on th~ • history ot that information . Mayor Woodward said the oth er item Randy .. that I !hough ! you brought up ... was enforcemen t. So if we could also have enforcement on the S"' to discuss . • • Englewood City Council December 15, 2008 Page 15 Council Member Penn said right. The ways that we concretely put it ... I hate to use that word .. sorry. So that we have a good plan on how we are going to enforce this. Right now, I don 't believe we do. Mayor Woodward said if there is no further discussion , let's vote . Vote results : Motion carried . Ayes: Council Members Penn , Mccaslin, Moore, Woodward , Jefferson , Wilson, Oakley Nays : None 10. Public Hearing Items No Public Hearing was scheduled . 11 . Ordinances, Resolution and Motions (a) Approval of Ordinances on First Reading There were no items submitted for approval on first reading . (b) Approval of Ordinances r~ Second Reading There were no additional items submitted for approval on second reading . (See Consent Agenda Item 9.) (c) Resolutions and Motions (i) Director White presented a resolution approv in g amendments to the Development Review Application Fee Schedule. He said this is a request to have Council approve a resolution approving new development fees for the various development review applications that we process in the Department. You reviewed the fees last week at Study Session . We told you at that time that we set the new fees based upon a reasonable cost recovery to recover staff time involved in putting together and reviewing the applications . And , also, we surveyed seve•>I jurisdictions in the front range to make sure our fees are reasonable and in line with what other jurisdictions cnarge for those various applications. Some of the fees are going up sl igh lly, some are actuall y decreasing . As we discussed last week, some of our processes have been streamline~ and we find that we are spending l~ss time with some of those applications than we used to. Some of th e fees are actually decreasing slightly. We would ask that Council would consider approvi ng the resolut io n approving the fee schedule . Mayor Woodward said are there any questions for Alan? Th ere were none. COUNCIL MEMBER McCASLIN MOVED, AND COUNCIL MEMBER WILSON SECONDED, TO APPROVE AGENDA ITEM 11 (c) (I)· RESOLUTION NO . 88, SERIES OF 2008 . RESOLUTION NO. 88 , SERIES OF 2008 A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW APPLICATION FEE SCHEDULE FOR COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT. Mayor Woodward asked if there was any discussion . There was none. •.1. ,r Vote results : Ayes: Council ~lembers Penn , Mccasli n, Moore, Woodward. Jefferson, Wilson. Oakley Nays : None Englewood City Council December 15, 2008 Page 16 Motio n carrie d. (ii) Director While presented a resolut ion extending the co nsolidated service plan for Ke nt Place Metropolita n District Nu . 1 and No . 2. He sa id back on September 17 , 2007 , Counci l app roved the Serv ice Plan for Kent Place Me tro polllan District No , 1 and No , 2, Whal those Dis tricts we re au thor ized lo do by the app roval of those Serv ice Plans is lo finance the con st ruct ion of public improve ments and other infrastructure on the Kent Place De ve lopment site and , also , adjacent lo lhal site there we re some improvements need ed In Hampden Avenue and Un iver sity, as a result of the approval of th e Development Plan for that part ic ular deve lo pm ent. The District finances public improvements through the iss uance of debt and they ret ire that debt by assess in g fees and laxes , only within that District, which covers only the Kent Place Development Parcel at Hampden and University . It does affect any other part of the City , in te rm s of taxing or debt issued by that District. The deve loper of Kent Place , Continuum Partners , is asking for an extension of the approval of the Service Plan , One of the conditions of the approval was that a market study be approved by the City , by December of th is year . Certainly , you und erstand , Iha! under the current economi c conditions , that ii wouldn 't be ve ry useful or fruitful to develop a market study under these econom ic cond itions . So , Continuum has requested a two year extens ion lo the approval of the Serv ice Plan and , certainly , the y could come ba ck wi thin any lime before the two years is up lo request approval , Bui we are anti ci pating that ii is go ing lo lake awhile for the economic recovery lo lake place and for a marke t lo reestabli sh itself for the type of produ ct lha l is being propos ed in lh e Kent Pla ce Deve lopm ent. Slaff is re •;ommending approval of the resol ution whic h grants a two year exte ns ion lo the conditional approv al of the Ser ,ice Plan , Ma yor Woodward sa id are there an y qu estions for Alan ? Council Member Wilson said is there an end dale .. , ,did you say for another year ? Director While said th is would extend the approval until Decembe r 31 , 2010 , Ms . Wils on said okay . COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE MOVED , AND COUNCIL MEMBER McCASLIN SECONDED, TO APPROVE AGENDA ITEM 11 (c) (II)· RESOLUTION NO . 89 , SERIES OF 2008 . RESOLUTION NO . 89 , SERIES OF 2008 A RESOLUTION EXTENDING THE CONSOLID AT ED SERVI CE PL AN FOR KENT PLACE METROPOLITAN DISTRICT N0, 1 AND N0.2. Mayor Woodwa rd ask ed if there was any discu ssion . Th ere was none . Vote results : Motio n carried . Ayes : Ccuncil Members Pen n, Mccaslin , Moore , Woodward , Jefferso n, Wils on, Oakley Nays : None Directo r While said thank you . 12. General Discussion (a) Ma yo(s Cho ice (i) Mayor Woodward said within ou r packets th ere was a leller, a draft leller from me lo our Federal re pres en ta tiv es ... Iha! is congress people ... regarding the infra struct ure stimu lu s package , II was in draft form unt il Counci l approved it. I wo uld like lo ask for Council app rova l on Iha! so we can go ahead and send Ih a! forward . Mike Flaherty , the Oep uly City Man ager, has sent some stuff forward , Th is is a leller di re ctly lo our represe ntatives . So , unless there is an objectio n, I wou ld like lo go ah•Jad and sig n those lellers and gel them sent. Hearin g no objectio n, I will go ahead and do that. • • • • • • Englewood City Council December 15, 2008 Page 17 (ii) Mayor Woodward said I would like lo mention the Chamber business party on Friday night II was the party held at lhe Alexan and it was open to the bus inesses in Englewood and ii was qu ile the success. Randy certa inly, as the Chair ol lhe Eng lewood Chamber, pul a lot in to it and did a superb job. I think everybody had a good time and enjoyed ii . (iii) Mayor Woodward said I would li ke to mention that today Lenny's Subs had the ir grand opening al Floyd and Broadway. This is the first franch ise to open in the Slate of Colorado. There will be somewhere around 40 I know a number of Council Members and City staff were there to help them celebra te that and do a ribbon cutting and eat some food, which I thought was pretty good . I would encourage people to give them a try . That is Lenny's subs . (iv) Mayor Woodward said Randy and I did a presentation today at Eng lewMd High School · to the Jun io,'s regard in g the youth participation in the National League of Cities Conference held •;n Wash ington, D.C. in March . We hope to get a number of applications coming out of the school. I '.hink it was fa irly successful and I think it is something that, in future , we shou ld do as opposed to just sending ~nme things over and letting them know about it. We did have the whole Jun ior class and everything we have was handed out. (v) Mayor Woodward said I would lik e to congratulate one of our members that wa s a youth member last year ... Shannon Eldridge ... she is a senio r at Englewood High School. She was a youth participant at NLC during 2008 and she received one of 300 Presidential recognition awards for volunteerism. So , I would like to congratulate her on that. (vi) Mayor Woodward said I would li ke to congratulate , again, the holiday decorating recip ients . (vii) Mayor Woodward said I want to mention that the Terraces at Pennsylvan ia, the senior affordable housing complex, did get the ir Certification cl Occupancy ... I believe It was two weeks ago. It is now open . And seniors are starting to move in and occupy that. II is a very nice facility . Be ing on the Housing Authority and having gone through the place. Council is scheduled to go through it on January 12'". It is ideally placed, as far as location ; close lo Safeway, Swedish Hospital and transit. If people would like further information on ihal, they can contact the Englewood Housing Auth ority . (vi ii) Mayor Woodward said I would like to w ish my fellow Council member, and staff that are here , a Merry Christmas and to the citizens of Englewood ... a Happy Hol iday and a happy and prosperous New Year. (b) Council Members' Choice (i) Council Member Penn : 1. He said I would like to thank the City of Englewood for help ing support our Chamber holiday party we had last Fr iday. II was an excellent success and hopefully people will sta,t realiz ing that the Cham ber is coming back. 2. He sa id holiday li ghting ... those people rea lly do a lot of work . I actually put o ne or two lights myself, so I know what they go throug h. 3. He sa id the v,. with the Junior s today was excell ent . We are going to go over to the Alternative High School and check with stu dent's to see if there are any students that would like to apply. 4, He said Lenny's was great . We had great food over there today and I encourage everyone t.o go there . (ii) Coun cil Member Mccaslin: 1. He said I want to wish everyone a Ha ppy Holid ay , Englewood City Council December 15, 2008 Page 18 2. He said I want to thank the people who showed up at the meeting tor right I apologize for the inconven ience and miscommunication . But , hopefully, we will rect ify this to everyone 's satisfaction or to most everyone 's satisfaction . (iii) Counc il Member Moore : 1. COUNCIL MEMBER MOORE MOVED , AND COUNCIL MEMBER PENN SECONDED, TO APPROVE RESOLUTION NO . 90, SERIES OF 2008 . RESOLUTION NO . 90 , SERIES OF 2008 A RESOLUTION SPECIFYING AID TO OTHER AGENCIES FOR 2009 BY THE CITY OF ENGLEWO OD , COLORADO . t,1 ,-·• ,vodward as ked 'there was any discuss ion . Mayor Woodward said this is a resolution where City Council , from the City Council budget , designates use of funds in the amount of $32 ,250 .00 for Aid to Other Agencies , non-profits for their use , wh ic h support the City of Eng lewood and Its citizens . Mayor Woodward asked if there was &ny further discussion . Seei ng none , please vote . Vote results : Ayes : Nays : Motion carried . Council Members Penn , Mccaslin , Moore , Woodward , J~fferson , Wilson , Oakley None [Clerk 's note : this resolution was listed on the Agenda as item 12 (b) (r).) 2. He sa id Happy Holidays to everyone . (iv) Council Member Oa kley : 1. He said I too would like to thank everybody for showing up tonrght , especially with the ir concerns regard ing Council Bill 79 . 2. He said I would like to wish everybody a Merry Christmas . (v) Council Member Wilson : 1. She sa id I appreci ate peop le co ming forward and hea ri ng wh at they had to say . They brought up some good po ints . I th ink th is Council is very aware of working with the people and that Is our intent. So, I apprec iate that. 2. She sa id I v,as at the Chamber party and Randy , thanks for doing so mu ch work with that and your fam ily . It was a lo'. Jf fun and very nic e. I appre ci ate that. 3. She said I don 't know if people ha ve noticed that there are ne w sculptures In the planters along South Broadway , along with the bicycle racks that BID has purchased . So, I want to thank them . They look very nice . 4. She sa id Happy Ho liday s. (v i) Cou nci l Member Jefferson : • • • • • Englewood City Council December 15 , 2008 Page 19 1. He sa id I too just wa nted to thank everybody for com ing out. II is a big part of the democratic process , obv i~usl y, Is hav ing people concerned about issues going on in their ne ig hborhoods . So, II is nice to hear that we have some folks who are concerned and bringi ng those concerns to us. It was nice to see everything work the way ii should tonight. 2. He said I will also second the idea that the holiday party for the Chamber went great. I also want lo give special thanks to Randy, as well as the rest of the Chamber staff and board members. II really went well and I think ii goes a long way to letting people know the Chamber is up and running aga in. 3. He sa id Happy Holidays to everyone . 13 . City Manager's Report (a) City Manager Sears said a few years ago, because uf financ ial conditions primarily , we change d the employee's ho liday party. I fell ii was still important lo do and so we , just over the last several years and this year , we are hosting at the City Manager's office upstairs, in the Council meeting room . We will bring some food from about 11 :OO In the morning to about 3:00 . That is this Wednesday and it Is a great opportunity for me to talk to employees and I want to invite the City Council , if you have a chance , to come by . Again , ii is pretty ·.,formal, kind of a low key get-together, but it's a great opportunity to talk to our employees. (b) City Manager Sears sa id I w ish Council members a Happy Holiday. 14 . City Attomey'a Report (a) City Attorney Brotzman said I want to wish everybody a Happy Holiday . 15, Adjournment MAYOR W ODWARD MOVED TO ADJOURN . The meeling adjourned at 9:16 p.m.