HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004-01-05 (Regular) Meeting Minutes•
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ENGLEWOOD CITY COUNC IL
ENGLEWOOD, ARAPAHOE COUNTY, CO LORADO
I. Cu lllo Order
Regular Session
Januury 5, 2004
The regul ar meeting or the Engle wood C ity Co un ci l was ct1.llcd to order by Mayor Garrett at 7:4 0 p.m.
2. In,·ocatloo
The invocation was given by Co unci l Member Barrentine .
3. Pledge or Allegiance
The Pledge of Alleg iance was led by Mayor Garren .
4. Roll Call
Present:
Ab ~cnt:
A quorum was present.
Co uncil Mcmb~rs Tc,massc., Moo re . Barrentine, Garrell , Brad shaw,
Yurchick
Co uncil Member Wolos yn
Al so present: City Manager Scars
5. Minutes
City Attorney Brotzman
Ass istant City Manager Flaherty
City Clerk Ellis
Senior Planner Langon, Co mm•·· 11 y i',:vc\opment
Director Simp son, Communit• ,)..:..-rl ~mcnt
Director Ol son, Safet y Scrvic .,
Dire::tor Gryglcwi cz . Finance and Admini strati ve Services
Direc tor Ingl e. Inform at ion .., 1inology
Director lo'lg, Library
Director Kthm , Capital ProJ
Mnnager of Admini strnti on 8 0\;k, Ulilitic s
(a) COUNCIL MEMBER YURCHICK MOVED, AND IT WAS SECONDED, APPROVE
THE MINUTES OF THE REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF DECEMBER 15, 2003.
Ma yor Garrett asked if there was an y di sc ussio n, co mments or correcti ons. There wns none .
Vote resulls:
Moti on cn rricd .
Ayes : Council Members Uarrentine , Moore, Urad shnw , Garrell,
Yurchick , Toma sso
Nays: None
Absent: Council Member Wolf' .yn
6. Sched ul ed vi.itors
Englcwo ·,d City Counci l
Junuu r~· 5. 200-'
Pugc 2
There ,, ere nc1 schedu led ,,isi tnrs.
7. Unsc heduled Visitors
Th ere ,,ere no un scheduled vis i1ors.
8. Communicutions, Proclunmttons und Appoi nt ments
Th ere we re no communi caoon s, proc lamat ions or :1p po intm ents.
9. Pu blic Hearing
(a) Mayor Garre n advised tha t thi s is a public hearing to gat her ci ti ze n input on Cuunc il Bill No .
83 . approv ing the Unified Deve lopm e nt Code.
COUNCIL MEMBE R MOORE MOVED, AN D IT WAS SECONDED, TO OPEN THE PUBLIC
HEA RI NG TO GAT HER INPUT ON COUNC IL BILL NO. 83, APP ROV ING THE UN IFIED
DEVELOPMENT CODE.
Aye s: Co un cil Mem be rs Burremine. ~oore, Brad shaw , Garre tt,
Yurchi ck, Toma sso
Nays: None
Ab se nt : Coun cil Membe r Wol osy n
Moti on carri ed and the Public Hea ring ope ned.
All wi1n esses were du ly sworn .
Seni or Planner Lango n said fo r yo ur co nsideratio n toni ght is a Pub lic Hear ing for a bill fo r an ordinan ce to
ad opt 1he Unified Deve lop men t Code. whic h is th e repea l in its e nti re ty of Title 10: Land Subdi visio n a nd Title
16: Zo nin g Regu latio ns of 1he Eng lewood Muni cip al Code. The firs t reading wa s on December 15, 2003 .
Proo f of Publicat io n of Nu 1ice of thi s public hea ring, whi c h wa s pub lis hed in the Eng lewood Herald on
Dece mbe r 19 , 2003. ha s alread y been submitt ed 10 th e Cit y Clerk . Counci l is ve ry familiar wi th th e Unified
Oe,·cl opmcnl Code. after multiple sess ions and mee tings. Thi s is a three plu s. co nce ntrat ed, yea r projec t and
multiple years be yo nd that. .. 10 rewri le 1he Zon in g Ordinance. The fir s, zoning ordinance in th e Cit y was in 1he
1940's and rewri te s occ urred in the 1950's and l960 's, The las ! maj or re visio ns we re in 1985 . Nu merous
ame ndment s have occ urred in th at lim e peri od since 1985, with a num be r of in co nsistencies nnd ou tda 1ed
rdcrences th at ma de th e CMe diffi cult 10 use and admini ster and undcrs!and. Co unci l dire cted siaff 10 prepare
a coo rdin ated subdi visio n a nd zoni ng re gulati on upd ate , to minimize th usc inc onsi ste ncies and probl ems within
the Code, to pro vide standard il.ed de ve lopment proce dures, nexib lc de vdopmenl opportunities and clearer
slandards. That w.ts o ur c:'i rcc .,.)n and that is what we hope we have ac hieved in the Uni fied Deve lopment
Code . Th e Plann ing Commi ssion, at a Pu blic Hea ring. ('O nsidcrcd 1hc Unified Developme nt Code on
Septe mhcr 16, 2003 and that Commi ss iun recon unc ndcd :ipproval or the Unified Devel op ment Cod e by a vo te
of 7 to 0. The Unifi ed De vc lopmcn1 Code is a co mp re hen sive revis ion or the zo nins and lan d subdiv isio n
re gulation s that reorgani zes and update s those reg ul ations into a si ngle coord inated doc ument. Our goa ls we re
to mainta in !he css en1ia l charac ter of th e ex istin g zone districts. to upd ate the Code, to simplify th e
:1dmini s1ra1ion and proc edu res of the Cod r. and to eswb lish Oexiblc devel opment opportuniti es ba sed unclearer
standards . Und er the proposed UDC. no land is being rezoned . Yo u have , wi1h in yo ur pa cke t, a new zo ning
m.1p. 1 ht zo ning map is par! of 1he Unified De ve lopment Code . New name ~ have bl'c n app lied :.J :;ome or the
dis 1ri c1~ a nd they arc listed in th e ovcr \'ie w, wh1 ~h is atta c hed to lh c staff report . Then· .11, 1u • .,ubs1anti ve
changes 10 severa l section s. includin g lan dscapi ng, parking. sign s, hi storic pre sr . va 1irn . fl ood plain,
1e\e~:o mmun ica ti ons and non-conform in g uses. Those areas will be cons id ered in Pha se 2 or, poten ti all y, eve n
more phases. Th o~c mea s wi ll be consi dered al futu re Cou ncil Stud y Sc ssm ns 10 identify the pri ori 1i cs and the
mdcr in whi c:I, we work on eac h of th nse scc1io ns. Re cn use of th e 101:1 1 refor mat of th e Code . a \inc -by-line
co mpari so n, th :11 yo u are lypically used to, is not av:ii lab le and that is why the ove rview has been att ac hed to
pro\'1dc an overvi ew or th e l·h:mges wi1 hin 1hc Cude . !'h ere arc r'1 ur type s or chan ges. There arc 1echni ca \
changes such as the fo rm al ib.clf and the now -d1arts and table s have bee n indudcd in the m:w UDC to make it
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Englc"ood C il y Co uncil
Junuur)' 5, 200-I
Pogc 3
ea sie r 10 use and underst and . f he rc is so me new materia l tha1 is not in the current Code ... <.le lin itions and
srnndarc.1s. suc h as :,,tor m water drai na ge and erosio n co ntrol. Those are are as that have not pre viously bee n
wi th in th e Code . Thc tc is ne" material, whi ch bri ngs u:,, up 10 co mmuni1 y :.ta nda rd s. There :ire minor upd ates
for dari ty :md to codify po licies that the Cit y ha s followed for years, such as the effective date of a pl al. The
zo nin g map is an example of th e update, where on !) the nam es arc chnnged ... thc land is no'. being re zo ned in
:1ny way, shape or fo rm . Th en the key change s are th e sub srn nt ive policy change s :ind those we re vie wed a1 the
fir st read in g. The y arc th e establishment of the Re siden tia l Design Sta ndards, inc lud ing bu lk plane
req uireme nt s. garage placement, se tback s and building height rcquircme111 s, and a new Transit Sta lio n Arc a
Di s1ric1 zo ne category . Agui n. no land is being zoned to that ca tegory, it is just creating th e zo ne di stri ct Th ere
arc new procedures inc orpora ted int o the UDC fo r Limited Review Permits and Temporary Use Pe rmits . Th ere
is new variance crit eria and Admi nistra ti ve Adjustments fo r typica l zo nin g va ri ance s tha t are minor in nat ure
and will be able to be handled ad mini stratively . New procedures for Land Subdivi sions a nd th e removal of an
unu sed zone di stric t, the R-2-C/S PS Residential District, that was never, eve r appl ied. We have bee n
addressi ng th e upda te of the ordinan ce th roug l· th e Web. th ere is a copy avai lable in the Library, th ere are CD's
available from the Ci 1y Clerk's office, notices wi ll be avai lab le once we move lhruugh th e Publi c Heari ng phase
and adop ti on of effec ti ve dale s so th at we know what's go in g to be pre sen ted . They will be prese nted in the
Cit izen, and a1 th e Building divisi on co unt er. We are devel oping a Freque11tly Asked Questions report an d we
are sti ll wo rkin g on a method 10 co nt act 1he buil ding co ntractors so that they are aware of some of the changes
within the Code. As I said, in Phase 2, which begins this spring, we will be looki ng at ot her areJs and we'll be
havi ng di sc ussions, wit h Co uncil, to set those priorities. Those are areas th at will definitely i~volve more pub lic
involveme nt. beca use they are more spec ific topic s. The changes presen ted here in vo lve a forma t change,
changes fo r the sa ke of clarity an d updates to bring things up to curre nt standards.
Ms . Lango n sa id if there are any que sli ons. I wou ld be happy to answe r them .
• Mayor Garrett asked if there were any que stions.
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Co uncil Member Yurchick sai d I ha ve one que sti on fo r cla rifi ca ti on or it ma y jus1 be a typo . The PUD 6 ... that
yo u have marked on th e map ... Un iversi ty Homes ... is 1ha1 this littl e area off of Uni ver sity, be1wecn Cornell and
Dartmouth, which says PUD -l '? It is so sma ll , I ca n't even read it wit h my glas ses.
Ms. Lango n said in that area. just north of th e Korean Em manue l Church at Da rtmouth nnd Unive rsit y. there is
a vaca nt lot. Co uncil Member Yurchick asked ifit should be PUD 6 and not PUD 4? He said we ha ve a PUD 4
down by Craig. Ms. Lango n said the litt le area at Unive ,sity should be PUD 6. Mr. Yurchick said it says 4 on
mine , that is what it looks like . but I can't 1cll because it is so tiny . Ms . Lan gon said I will doub le-c heck it on a
la rge r map lo confirm th at il is PUD 6.
Ma yo r Garr en asked if thcrr WL,c any oth er quc s1ions fo r Ms. Langon . There were none .
Ma yor Ga 1 · e ll thanked Ms. Langon .
Don Roth. 283 0 So uth Sherm an, said as a member of the Planning :md Zo ning Co mmi ss ion, we spe nt a grea t
deal of time wo rki ng on thi s. The staff spe nl a hu ge amuunt of time working on thi s iss ue and, unlik e th e
Broa dway Plan, thi s isn'1 a vision. thi s i~ ac 1ual Codc ... it's law . I am kind of surp ri se d that no one fro m the
pu blic.· has a viewpoint on it. The Plannin g and Zo nin g Co mm iss ion co nside red a number of viewpoint s as we
loo ked at th is Plan . We looked at it from the viewpoi nt of people who want to mak e improve ment s to th eir
property, looked at it fr om the viewpoi nt of people who des ign those improveme nts. peop le who build the
impro ve ment s and of cou rse. th e staff posi tion, as 1hey will have 10 admini ster all of tlu s Code. Th e o ne
vicwpo inl. that I'm not sure that we gave full co nsiderati on to, is the viewpoi nt of the people who wi ll be
calli ng you when one of th ese house s goes up nex t doo r 10 th em . In partit:ula r. o ne thing that makes me a li n\c
nervo us about th i is the starting poi nt of a bulk plane height at 12 feet. The majori ty of th e res id enc es in
Englewood are sing le-sto ry residences . Starting 111 n bulk plane, on a 50 foot lot. 5 feet fr om th e property line at
12 feet. Jll ows yo u a full two-stor) house, and if th ey become a lillle creative and look al so me of the thin gs tha1
arc all owed in thcre ... like the abili ty 10 project in10 the bu lk plane wi th gab les ... th ey ca n squeeze II two and a
half story house into a height that we :a re all owing, whi ch is mu ch, much 1a ll cr than an ything that is out lhcr~
Englewood Cil y Council
J n nuor y S, 2004
Page 4
now. or in most neighbor hoods ... lei's p :1 \l th at way . 11 doe s mukc me a littl e nervo us, as shad ows cas1 by
this ... du rin g 6 month !<. of the ye:ir. the 101al he ig ht of the h 1ildi ng \\ Lil be th e rul ing fa c1m and th u!<.c !<.hadows
can extend acros s th e maj or porti on of an y prope rt y to 1hc nort h un a 50 foot lot. Myself. I would like to se c
that bulk pl ane lowe red . Gran ted, ,,e wall! 10 see mo re de ve lopmc nl. bu! on th e other ha nd . we ma y be steppi ng
in to so meth ing tha t we don't wa nt to step int o. by all owin g it 10 go qui te th at hig h, es pecia ll y cun ~ider ing th at
we ha ve in cre ased th e 101al bui ldin g heig ht by anoth er 20% over what th e current Cude all ows. By go ing lower,
it still doe sn't preclud e so meo ne fru m usi ng a hig her bulk pl ane height It could be achic\ cd 1h roug h the
var ia nce proce ss, where at least th e neighbors ha ve an opponunit y to co mm e nt on 1ha1. Unde r th e current Code,
wi 1h th e 12 f{,o t heig ht . th e neighbors ha ve no ability to co mm ent whatsoeve r ... 11 is a use by rig ht . Th at is
real ly all I have to say. Oth er th :m 1ha1 , I 1hink it is a grea t piece or work. I th ink we. and the staff . have done a
gre at job. I think it will be a re al plus for us. Thanks , he said.
Co uncil Member Moo re said ma y I ask Mr . Rot h a qu es ti on? Don. I was c uri ous ... rega rdi ng yo ur bulk plane
co nc ems ... are you a lo ne voice fr om the Planning and Zo nin g Co mmi11ee on 1ha1 fr om?
~Ir. Ro1h said I sup pose so. Th at"s • .,here I think mor, co nsi derat io n was given 10 th e ot her vi ewpoint s and not
mu ch 10 that viewpoi nt.
Mr . Moore sai d I ass um e tha 1 issue was pro bab ly deba ted rel ati vel y heav il y? Mr. Rot h sai d. actually . it wa s a
rath er shorl deba1e. Mr. Moo re !h ank ed Mr. Ro th .
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Cyndi Krie ger, 2987 So uth Chero kee Street. sai d I was proba bly th e one on th e ot her sid e fr om Don. I am also
on 1he Plan ning and Zo ning Commi ss ion, ahhough I am here more as a pri vat e c iti ze n. I added a sec ond story
onto my house IO years ago a nd ii wa s diffi c ult under th e current zo nin g. I had my conce rns. We are los ing so
many kid s. especi all y from th e upper gra de s :md it is so diffi cult fo r a fami ly to stay in Eng lewood. I combin ed
a fam il y and made it ev !n bigger and ii wa s impos sib le to find a house th at wo uld fit my fa mily. We were •
luck y we had a big lot or we couldn't have wune it . I thin k it is ver y im po rt ant . I understand whu t Don is
saying , beca use it does cast a fairl y large shad ow on a nei ghborin g house. but at th e sam e time, we al so have 10
ha ve the abi lity to ha ve the familie s. th at we need, 10 kee p ou r Ci ty going. Yo u can 't pul a fu ll second s1ory on
mos! houses on a 50 foot lot . even with 1he 12 foo t bulk plan e height. Not a full seco nd s1ory, the enti re w1dlh
of yo ur house. And , as small as some of those hou ses are ... on the 50 roo t lots ... yo u·rc not go ing 10 get much
or a seco nd story. by th e tim e yo u put a stair we ll in there. So. I 1hink ii is a wo nderful 1hi ng th at we ha ve
expand ed the build ing en velope . bot h out and up , bu t I thi nk the bulk plane does help 10 miti gate that. I"m a
co ntractor al so, so I kn ow how many pe opl e havt: tri ed and tr ied 10 bui ld in En glewood a nd hm•e not been ab le
10. becau se of our c urre nt zo ning. So, it is rea ll y wo nd erfu l th at we have done thi s and I think ii will help us
tr emend o usly. Also. I think ;, is a gre:tt imp rov emen t in usabi lit y. bec au se. once again. I have used ii as a
co 111ractor and I know how diffi c ult u is 10 fi gure ii out. Thank s, she s.i id .
ll.fa yor Garrett thank.!d Ms. Kr ieger.
Mayor Gnr rcll asked 1r 1here w;i s :tn yo ne who wi shed lo ad dress th e Co un cil . No one else ca me for ward.
COUNC IL MEM BER TO MA SSO MOVED, AND IT WA S SECONDED, TO CLO SE TH E PUBLI C
HEiU'ING TO GA TIIER INPUT ON COUNC IL BI LL Nn. 83 , APPROV ING THE UN IFIED
DEV•~•-OPMENT CODE.
Ayes : Co uncil Members Barren tin e, Moo re. Bra dsha w. G:trrett ,
Yu rc hick. Toma!t.!t.O
Nays : No ne
Ab sent : Co un cil Membe r Wolos)'n
Mn1io n c.::trr ied and the Publ ic 1-lc aring cl osed.
Mayor Garrell !I.aid I belie ve this will co me ba ck on th e age nda in two wee ks for !<.eco nd rea din g.
Co un cil Membe r Brnd :,,h:i w :,,aid \\e did put {l Ur t.:han gc s in . Ma yor Garrett sai'l yes. Co unci l Bill SJ renec ts th e
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Englewood City Cou ncil
Jonunry S, 2004
Poge S
I 0. Consent Agenda
(a) Approval of Ordinances ei n First Reading
There were no items submit1cd fo r approval on fi rst rea din g.
COUNC IL MEMBER BRADSHAW MOVED, AND IT WAS SECONDEL', TO APPROVE COJ\/SENT
AGENDA ITEMS !O (b) (I), (Ii), (Ill) ond (Iv) AND 10 (c) (I), (Ii), (iii) ond (is).
(b) Approval of Ord inances on Second Readin g
(i) ORDI NANCE NO. I, SERIES OF 2003/2004 (CO J NC IL BILL NO. 89.
INTRODU CE D BY COU NCIL MEMBER BRADSHAW)
AN ORDINANCE AUTHORIZING AN INT ERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT FOR LEASE 01' THE
ENGLEWOOD BOOKMOBILE BETWE EN THE CITY OF ENGLEWOOD AND DOUGLAS COUNT Y.
(ii) ORDIN ANCE NO . 2, SERIES OF 2003/2004 (COUNC IL BILL NO . 9IJ
INTRODUCED BY COUNC IL MEMBER BRADSHAW)
AN ORDINANCE AUTHOR IZING AN EASEMENT AGREEMENT FOR PIRATES COVE BETWEEN
THE CITY OF ENGLEWOOD AND PUBLIC SERVICE COMPANY OF COLORADO .
(iii) ORDINANCE NO . 3, SERIES OF 2003/2004 (COUNCIL BILL NO . 9 1,
INTRODUCED BY COUNC IL MEMBER BRADS HAW)
AN ORDINANCE RE PEALING THE SUNSET PROVISION FOR THE TRANSPORTATION ADVISORY
COMM ITTEE.
(iv) ORDINANCE NO . 4. SERIES OF 2003/2004 (COU NCIL BILL NO . 93
INTRODUCED BY COUNC IL MEMBER BRADSHAW)
AN ORD INANCE AUT HORI ZlNG A CITY DITCH CROS · '•IG LICENSE AGREEMENT AND A
TEMPORARY CONSTRUCTIO N EASEMENT FOR A FIB ER OPTI C COND UIT BETWEEN COMCAST
OF COLORADO IX. LLC AND THE ClTY OF ENGLEWOOD. COLORADO.
(c) Re so lution s and Motions
(i) RES OLUTI ON NO . I. SERIES OF 2004
A RESOL UT IO N DES IGNATlNG THE BULLETI N BOARD ON TH E NORTH SIDE OF THE SECOND
FLOOR OF THE ENGL!,WOOD CIVIC CENTER AS THE OFFICI AL POST IN G PLAC E FOR ALL
LEGA L NOT ICES OF THE CITY OF ENGLEWOOD FOR 2004.
(ii) RESOL UTION NO . 2. SER IES OF 2004
A RESOLUT ION AMENDING THE CITY OF ENGLEWOOD'S ICM A-RC 457 DEFERRED
CO MPENSATION PLAN.
(iii) PURCHASE OF A PATROL VEHI CLE FROM CHAMPION CHEVROLI , IN
THE AMO UNT OF $2 9.01 2.00 .
(iv)
Bil l.lNG SYSTEM.
PUR CHASE OF THE HARDWARE PLAT FORM FOR THE CITY 'S UTILITY
Englewood City Council
Jnnuary S, · 004
rage6
Vote result;:
Ayes: Co un cil Members Barre ntin e, Moo re, Brad shaw . Ga rrett .
Yurchick. Toma sso
Nays : None
Abse nt : Co unci l Member Wulory n
Mmi on carried.
11. Re~ulur Age nda
(a) Approval of Ordinances on First Reading
There wen! no items su'u mitted for appro va l on fir st reading.
(b ) Approva l of Ordinances on Seco nd Re ad ing
There were no 11dditi onal items submitted fo r approva l on seco nd readin g. (Sec Agend a It em 10 • Consent
Agenda .)
(c) Resol uti ons and Motions
There we re no ad diti onal resolut ions or motions subm itted fo r approva l. (See Agenda hem 10 • Co nse nt
Agenda.)
12. General Disc ussion
(a) Mayor's Choice
t i/ Mayor Garrell sa id there is an article th al was se nt to the Web si te dealing with the
Nati onal Safe Kic:fs Ca mpaign . J will pass thi s around fo r th ose th at mi ght be interes ted in see in g thi s.
(b) Cou ncil Members' Choice
(1) Co uncil Member Barrentine :
I. She said I wan 1ed to give so me kudos to the Poli ce Depanmcnt. I go t a ca ll fro m a residen t on
Sherman who wa£ ve ry happ y wi r~ th e way a po li ce offi cer handled a situati on wi th pels 1ha1 knoc ked th eir
fen ce down . Th ey were very acco mmodating and , while th ey didn 't wa nt 10 embarrass anybody. th ey ju st
wanled to say th ey appreciated 1he co mmunity fee l and how the y handled th a1. Bui, she said , th ey wo uldn 't
gi ve me th e narr~ of the officer bec ause th ey th ought it would emb arrass him , so th ey j us t said thank you to the
Poli ce Dcpart rr,..:nl.
2. She said on anoth er note also related 10 th e Poli ce Depar1m cn1 , Bill and Caro l Belt wh o were in thi s
co mmunity ... Bill Belt was a poli ce offi ce r in thi s co mmunit y fur a long time and they moved to Walsenburg in
March of last year ... ha ve had an un fo rtun ate acc ident in thei r fami ly. They lost a grandc hil d. 12 years old , and
they ha ve two oth er grandc hildren in th e hos pital at thi s time . I jr•~t want ed to ex te nd my pra yers and th oughts
to th em and th ought that anybody th a1 may know th em, mi gh( w 110 do 1he sam e.
(ii ) Co uncil Member Moore sa itl I havt · .e w iss ues related to tonight's study Sessio n.
Perso na lly 1 think it was ve ry helpful to get a sen se of what is · '.ng on with the De nver Se min ary devel opment.
My ne xt que stion is, when exa ctl y is the co mmunit y mee ting ~ 1 nea rd th e 13111 , hut what was th e tim e? Ms.
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La ngon sa id I beli eve it's at 7:00 p.m. at th e De nver Semi nar) 1d I can send yo u th e in forma ti on and th e roo m •
numbe r. whi ch I don't rec all offh and. Mr . Moo re sa id lh nt w,1 ld be helpful. How is th e neighbo rh ood be ing
noti fied? Beca use , I know 1 hnd not learned of it through comr 1unity channel s. Ms. Langon sa id th e PUD
ordinance requires th at propen y ow ners, within 500 feet of t~(: site, be notified and th e app li ca nt has act uall y
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Englewood City Council
J a nuary S, 2004
Pa ge 7
go ne slig h1l y beyond that 500 fce 1, whi ch cove rs an area of about h:llf or twr th irds of Kent Village . Thi.:y
ac luall y co mpleted Kent Vill age and up Ra ce Street, Fl oyd Avenue and Floy J Place. Al so , the noti fic:tt ion is
not limned to just Englewood re side nt s. Actu all y. Cherr y Hill s Villa ge. Arar, 1hoc Cou nt y and j ust a few houses
wit hin De nve r, rec eived notifi ..:a ti on. Mr . Moore sai d okay, very good .
Mr . Moore sa id I ha ve a fo ll ow up quc s1ion. I would like to tr y to get rcso l\'cd ... as Da vi d Tryba did me nti on hi s
view of the maxi mum height. If possi ble before th e nex t mee ting, I wo uld lik e clarifica ti on of how hi gh he
rea ll y co uld pu sh th e buildin gs. if 1h:11 wa ! hi s so le intent. .. so what ~ind of foll s under hi s by ri ght Then just
the fin al que sti on is that so me of the re sident s ha ve asked if, before the next mee tin g, the y co uld just ge t co pie s
of the sa me material that we had in our pa cket. If it is pos!--ible, if maybe I co uld ge t five or six copies that I
co uld give them to so me of the neighbors and share them. The time frame i::, a little ti ght, but if yo u just let me
kn ow, I wi ll pi ck them up .
City Manager Sear s sa id I know th ey gave us 24 cop ies, bu t I am not sure how many we we re ab le to se nd out
to staff and Co uncil, but I know we co ul d eas ily ge t 5 to 10 co pies ove r to yo u. Mr . Moore sa id th at wo uld be
great. Mr . Sca rs said we will ge t th em ove r to yo u tomo rrow. Mr . Moore sa id ve ry good, thank yo u.
(iii ) Co un ci l Member Brad shaw :
l. She said Happ y New Year ,
2. She sa id there are so me problems with an intermittent light. and I guess thi s would be und er Ken Ross,
and he is not here , or Ladd Vestry . The li gh t at Ken yon and Windermere , as yo u come down an<l aro und the
Sports Authority , the light is intermiuent, if it works at all, at ni ght. .. th e street li gh t th ere. It is al most like it is
on the wrong comer. Ca n we loo k at th at? I don't know that we can chan ge it, but ~an we at lea st make sure it
is working ?
3. She said I had a brief di sc uss ion with Brian at Mile Hi gh Coffee and he is reall y exci ted abo ut ge tting
th e Farmers· Mark et going thi s year . He wanted to know if th ere wo uld be Council sup port for him to do th at
with the Loyalist & Pa tri ot guy . Wh at they really want to do is try •.o work out a coordinated effort like on
Tuesday night s when we have the kid s down there, fo r the kid ac tiv iti es, and Thursda y ni ght s we have the Dr y
Creek Co nce rts. Are they mov in g over to Cit yCenter? Oka y. they arc movi ng ove r. Maybe if we co uld
co mbine our efforts, because on Wedne sda y ni ght s he can get a Fa rmers Market in here. It is just th at Sa turda ys
are so hard . So maybe. she sa id, we co uld loo k at thi s.
Cit y Manager Sears sa id we have Amy Doe 1, ~king wi1h us. as part of our staff, bu t she 's ac tually paid for by
EEF. Am y's goal is to try to coordinat e all of the differe nt act iviti es. So, I think we co uld make Amy th e po in t
pe rso n on th is .
Counc il Member Brad sha w said my concern is that it so rt of so und s like it is merchant dri ve n. rather tha n Cit y
driven. and I like th at srncrg y. I th in k it is nice 1hat 1hey are will ing to step up to the plate . So, if we co uld
fo rm II like a commi tt ee wi th merchant s. wi th Amy planning th e ac ti vitie s. Beca use, ii would be ni ce to have
an acti vit y dow n there every Wedne sday night in co njun cti on wi th th at. Ma ybe we co uld move so me of our
Tent Ta lks there, or whatc\'cr . 1 mean, I just think th at we arc mi ss in g ar. opportunity . We ha ve two busi nesses
that are ve ry. very int crcs 1ed in wor king wi th us and Brian knoc keJ him se lf ou t las t yc.ir und go 1 littlc or no
help, beca use the peop le go to a bi gger place on Sa turda ys. But if ·.,e co uld re all y coordinat e that, now is th e
time to do it. before sprin g. Wh at docs Co um:11 thmk ?
Bob Simp so n sa id I actua ll y wo uld j ust interject that I agree w\t h a~! of th at. We ha ve a co ntrac t, ac tu all y. l,, do
the Farme rs· Mark et. It wa s ori ginall y crea ted between a different c:m1it y, a Farmers· Market ent it y. th at was
be twee n th at Farm ers' Market Group and EEF. It is wi th EEF simp ly beca use it oprrates on EEF property .
But, Ms. Brad shaw said, th ey all wa lked la st ye ar . Mr . Simpso n sa.1 d rig ht and th at was o ne of the problem s we
encountered in that particular Farm ers' Market Gro up, whi ch we fe.lt was no t operati ng to a rc;11\y success ful
ca paci ty. We looked at it . and th at is when Brian stepped in :\r..d wa s wi.l in g to do so me cx Lr:1 effort and tuk c
over . We all owed him lo lak e: over th at co ntra ct and he ha s d1at1ed w1111 us abo ul !h e nec.d, intere st and de sire 10
Englewood Ci ty Council
January S, 2004
Page 8
work 10 u y 10 create a beuer. stron~c r market We ha\'C mdkatcd 10 him th at wc wo uld like to be able to cxlend
thal contract 10 him . It will have similar aspects 10 the 01her i:on1rac1 th:u we have 10 have , beca use wc ha ve
other tenant inte rcs!S that wc ha,·e 10 make sure are addressed. But abso lut ely, working with Amy and
coordina tin g some o f 1hesc ac ti vit ies . wi ll •11 akc it a su oniger Farmers· r-.fark ct and that is something that I 1hink
everybody wa nts . So. he said . I wi ll be ha ppy to continue 10 work and make thi s beucr.
Couroc il Member BraJshaw said I jus1 think it wou ld be such a m~at thing for e ve ryone. The n if yr\u wa nt yo ur
groce rie s or you want yo ur prod uce . 1hen you go to Englewood on Wed ne sday ni ght s. That would be rea lly
unique ill the De nver area, rat her than all the compe1i1ion we ha ve on Sa turdays.
Mr. Si:npson sa id I lhink getting somebody who is interested in doing this and making sure they are ge ning
th ose bu sinesse s in, is going 10 be a really a significa nt fac 1or in making it succ essfu l. I think the company that
was doinf, it las1 year, had a few famil y issues . Ms . Bradshaw said th ey rl!ally dro pped 1he ball . Mr. Simpso n
agreed that 1hcy really dropped the ball .
(iv) Counc il Member Yurc hi c k:
I . He said. regarding the bui ldin gs on the north sid e of th e circle drive. wh e n a.re we goin g 10 have
tenants .. have we heard anything~
Mr. Simpson said that pro perty is st ill in liti gation between Miller Weingarten and Trammell Cro w. I be lieve
our s pecial coun sel. Mike Miller. is looking at trying 10 see 1f we can smooth 1hat th rough the process. begi n
trying to figure out how those spaces may be leased . and see if we can gel some peo ple in there. d cs pile the
litiga1i on. C ounci l Member Bradsha w said is th al wh y th e CA.M is goi ng up so muc h? Mr. Simpso n said no.
•
So. Mr . Yu rc hic k said, it looks like it will be qui1e a whi le . Mr. Simpson said not necessarily. Yes, it •
potentially c ould be . That lawsuit could go on. if it doesn't get se ttl ed posi1ively. But, I think it is in our best
interest. as a City. to see if we ca n get th at settl ed . There is a demand for 1hosc stores. We ha ve had people
who are in1cre s1cd in being !here and they just haven't been able to locale there due 10 the lawsui t. So. if we can
get th ose two to communi ca1 e. i1 wi ll be very posi li ve . Trammell Cro w Re sidential ended up cl osing on th at
property . a s you know, wit hout having done what th ey we re sup posed to do. It was a ve ry bad ··uati on and we
are just ha vi ng to dea l wi 1h that at thi s lime .
Counc il Member Bradshaw s:i id I h:ive another ques ti on. Could those work as artist slUd ios and living quarters?
Mr . Simpson said they arc 0exible use s pa ce . but I wo uld have 10 c heck 1he zo ning agai n 10 sec if they could be
li ved in . I would say probably . but I wo uld ha ve to che c k the zoning on 1ha1 10 be certai n. Ms. Bradshaw said I
think 1ha1 would be a nice array o f tenant s 10 have over th ere . ~1r . Simpson ~ai d yes. we have artisls who have
shown int erest in that s pace and would like 10 ha ve it. We ha ve had boo k storc;:s, lanning sal ons, att orn ey's
offi ,·cs. a rc hilects and landscape arc !iitcc1s l•ffices ex press interest. So we ha ve had interest. it is jusl se111ing
the laws uit. It is no t a demand i:.~ue. lik e many people may th ink it is. Mr. Yurchi ck said I wa s just c urious.
2. He said th an ks for the numbers. Frank. '.'Jo w my question is, do we have $9 1.000.00 that we ca n
spend?
Mr . Gryglcwicz said no. those are paper los:.es . I don·1 have th e shee t in fro n1 o f me, bu1 th e Genera l Fund is
all uc.:atcd a certai n porti o n of that. We lend 10 hul d our sccuril ies. 1hat we in vest in. to malUrit y. So. in rca li1 y,
over timc , we will recoup th ose losses, because they arc on\) pa per losses. When 1hcy ac1uall y mature. we will
cash th em in a1 full va lue . But. Mr. Yurchick sa id. we hav e wrincn th at mo ney o ff of our ava ilable cash. Mr .
Gryglcwic 1. s.:ud ac tuall y wha1 we do, is we just ne1 it out again st our ea rnings. So you cou ld add 11 back. You
wo uld have to do ii cvery month . but it would be very diffi cult . I mea n, on the other hand, if your in vestments
slartcd :-arning more money then yo u wo uld ac tuall y have 10. in theory, reduce yo ur earnings. So, you would
reall y 0uc1uate. It woulJ be very d iffi cult 10 budget. One mont h yo u could sa y I am goi ng 10 hire you. 1hc nex1 •
mo nth the int erest rates <.·hange. no w we arc n ·1 so sure.
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Eng lewood City Counci l
January 5, 2004
Page 9
But , Mr . Yurl·hi ck sa id. I'm not so mul·h hkl kmg at mon1hl y. hUl loo kin g at year -e nd . You kn ow we we re
loo king :11 a ye ar -end numbe r. whu:h we were off ... ur. pot entially. lh crc b S91,CXX).OO avai labl e. ~Ir .
Gr yg lcwi cz said yes, pote nti ally there is. But . ~r. Yurdu ck ~a id , yo u don·t wa nt 10 spend 11 . Mr . Gryg.lcwi cz
said I do n't think I would want to budget th at way. becau se yo u are co nstantl y h:t vi ng to adj us1 you r boo ks and
lookin g at tellin g so meone th at. depending on i nt crcM mies, yo u co uld or co uld nOI be here . I don't think it is a
good budge ting practice. But. Mr . Yurch ic k stu d, it works :i gain st us in inn :.1ionary ti rnes. bec ause we nrc
ove rs pending o ur avai lab le cas h, ri £ht ? Well. ~1r . Grys lcw icz sa id. if intere st rat es were to increase. you would
potc111 i:1ll y show loss es. If intere !'t rntes decl ine in lh e mark et. lhen yri u wo uld ha ve gai ns and th ey would
cvemu ~il y work th emse lves o ut. I mea n, yo u co uld ad d it back , theord ic:all y. and show th at. yes. thi s paper loss
will at some time be reali zed a nd be mad e up am.I th ey always do, beca use. if we ha ve inves tm ent s th at are
under water, we tend to hold them until maturit y, which the losses , when it mature.s, is gone . I mea n.: J U ca n
ad d it back in there , th eoretica lly, and loo k at that at yea r-e nd. you're rig ht . But to bud ge t to that numbe r and
say here is $60,000.00 ... I don't kno w if I would wa nt to do th;.t . But . yo u are corrc\~1. As yo u can see on th at
pie chan. the maj ority of th os e lc,sses or ga in s wo ul d be all oca ted 10 th e Ent erprise Fm1ds. specifi ca ll y the
Utilitie s. who. for the mos ! pan, have all the cas h. But, yo u are right. yo u co uld do th at.
(v ) Co un ci l Mem be r Toma sso:
l. He said I woul d lik e 10 1hank Mike Flaheny fo r hi s continuin£ effort wi th the dog park iss ue . I keep
ge ttin g the corresponde nce.
2. He said was there anything resolved with 2850 So uth Sh erman, where th e neighbors co mplained abo ut
that propeny?
City Manager Sears sa id thi s is th e iss ue you raised with Ch .i Olso n?
Mr . Toma sso said thi s is the o ne with the ca rs parked on it. Th e neighb ors said he had a comp laint filed la st
summer and they were loo king into it a nd it is in much wo rse co nditi on now th an it wa.!i la sl summ er. l,1 r. Sears
said is lhis the one we talked to Sergeant Sanchez about ? Mr . Tomasso sa id I th ink it wa s th e Swa nso n
property . I came in Mo nda y and talked 10 Sue abou t it
Cit y Mana ge r Sea rs sai d oka y. I don't kno w. We will do a follow-up with yo u on th at.
Mr. Toma sso said it is probably 2850, there is no addre ss on that. It is a vac ant piece of propert y.
Cit y Manager Sea rs said okay and th e co mplaint was from a citi zen. a ne ighbor . about parking ca rs?
Mr . Toma sso said he said he had bee n co mpl aining about the pro pert y and Code Enforcement had bee n lookin g
at it, but it is much worse than it w;\!i la st summer . I think ii is just bei ng use d as a parking lot. Cit y Mana ge r
Se ars said I will ha ve informati on for yo u in 1hc nex t day or so.
Cit y Mana ge r Sears asked Chri s Olso n to gel a res pon se bad: on that .
3. He sa id the Hi storical Soc iet y wa s loo king for their so apbox car. whi ch ma y be up in the rafter s of the
Depot. He as ked if the re is an yo ne wh o knows an ythin g about th at. and possi bl y 1he baggage ca rt . whi ch is
so mewhere at the Serviccnter. If we co uld j u:;: :;et :1 nod. sayin g th al ii is lh erc . They are start ing to do an
in ve n1ory on where every thin g is at and th ey just want to make sure ii is th ere.
Cit y Mana ge r Sears said we will do a fo ll ow-up wi th 1hat .
4. Me said my iss ue with the Com mercial Federa l B:mk nnd the di sc uss ion we had la sl wed: with th e
ci ti ze ns. is that we arc loo king at a building where we arc getti ng X•numbcr of doll ars in propert y lax and if yo u
repl ace that bu ilding with a double wide , ~e arc los ing money . You kn ow if yo u come in wi th a douhl ewidc
tra iler and duwn s ,zc 1he buildin g and rep lace it , don't we lose pro perty tax. ba sil·al\y? And !he other value we
arc ll)s in g. is if yn u ha ,c a bui ld ing that has bee n designed by a recognized architel'I and yo u co me in with
Englew ood Cily Council
January 5, 2004
Page 10
so meo ne who docs n'I have those kind s or cred ential s and puts uµ a buildin g. you are ge llin g less va lue . We are
:1\so los in g orfice spa ce that co ul d be used for star1 -up busine sses. The 01hcr th ing I 1ookcd at was the
demoli tion permit. If we have a Broadw ay Pl an and all yo u need , 10 come in and ge t a demo permi1 , is 10 say
vo u ow n 1he bui ldin g and ha ve a co n1ra c1u r, you ca n ge t a demo permi1 and punch hole s in our pl an, basically .
11,ink th at is what happe ned wi1h th e cur 101s. There is no des ign ovc rsig hl on wha1 ca n be torn dow n in a
co mmercia l space ? So, if you ha ve no comro l ov er you r demoliti on contrncls or des ign re view, yo u c11n co me
in . take down the pro pe ny ncx l 10 you and exte nd your ca r lot. I think th at is what happen ed wi1h the car lots.
The wJy I am ana ly1.ing it. And if you do de \'c lop a Broa dwa y Pl r n. what's to say, if you keep the demo
co ntracts th e way they arc. th at so mebod y ca n ·1 ju co me in and d,!mo an old build ing 1ha1 yo u are kind or
ca lculating 10 be in th e middle of yo ur plan . Mr . i urchick sa id it is ca ll ed free enterp rise . But , Mr. Tomasso
said, it is also like downtown, it is also like clear cutt ing a fo res !. ff you co me in and cl ear cu1 the fores t, you
don't have a fo rest left If you selcc1i ve ly h:u ve,;;1 th at fore st, you still have 11 fo re st. And if you loo k al our
downtown sec ti on . we clear cut one bl oc k of th at , basica ll y. And th at is thal parkin g lot in fr ont of King
Soopcrs. We have one bloc k left. There are holl ow spo ts thnt were clear cut be hind tha t bloc k, and the nex.t
section snuth, and it has n't rec overed. It ha sn'1 grown bac k. So it is so methin g that we need to consider ... lhat
free ent erpri se demoli ti on pol icy and where it is getting us.
Mayor Garrett said ex cept th at King Soo pcrs was appro ved by Coun cil ... thc cl ear cuttin g of 1h111. Th at wa s a
po li cy of the Cit y at the time .
But , Mr . Tomasso sai d, I think yo u would ha ve to anal yze it like yo u would anal yze ma int aini ng a fo rest,
because you only ha ve so many trees to deal with and if yo u cut them all down , yo u don't ha ve a fores t
anymore .
Coun cil Member Yurchick sa id if you ow ned the fo re st, th e management is yo ur re spo nsibilit y. If it is a U.S .
Government fore st, th ey manage th e cutting . If it is privatel y ow ned, We yerhae use r dec ides how the y want hl
cul the forest, if 1hey want 10 cl ear cul . But th at is cl ear ly the owners' dec ision.
But , Mr . Tomasso said. in a jurisdi cti on like thi s, it affec ts the neighbors. It's like yo u ca n put up a six s1ory
house on your property and it will affec t the neighbor's property bee ause or th e shad ow . Ho w many bu ildin gs
do you wan t to tear down befo re yo u don't have a downtow n? 1'et,oit did that. They came in an d lore down
th e dow nt own sec ti on. You go 10 downt ow n Detro it an d th ere were no bu ild ing s. And De nve r did tha t a lot. It
is cheape r 10 tea r down a building and put in a pa rking lot, but all or a sudde n yo u don·1 ha vl: whal looks to be a
downt own, like you wo uld hav e in Manhatt an. So, he sa id, I th ink th ere has to be a ba lan C'e there some pl ace.
Council Member Bra dshaw said I think wi th a Broa dway Plan in pla ce ... whi ch it cou ld have been by now . had
it not bee n such a huge campaign iss ue ... th at wo uld have helped , beca use th at wou ld ha ve bee n a nod.:., as it
we re , at Quincy and Bro:i dway . But now 1hat there is no Broadwa y Plan in pla ce. ba sed on ca mpaigni ng by
ce rtain members. 1 think it is all up to fr ee enterpri se now.
But also. Mr. Toma sso said. I think if you have a plan, you arc going to ha ve 10 look at yo ur de mo permit pla n
100, bec ause what if there is some 1hing el se , other than aut o dealer s, that ca n co me in and use vacant propcr1y .
Th e Ci 1y is going to lose th ei r 1ax base , becau se yo u arc los in g yo ur propcr1 y tax if yo u co nve rt everyth ing in1 0
a blank lot. You don't ha ve any buildin gs 10 ta x on 1hat blank lot.
But aga in , Co uncil Member Brad shaw said, th at is fre e enterpri se. Ir so mebody o, • a lot, th ey wa nt 10 ra ze it
and put in a ca r 101. th at 's free enterpr ise. Wh al we are trying to do is to ge l a hi ghc1 .1d belie r use, bu t we are
way be hind now. We are like fou r ,nonth s beh ind on even ge tting that.
Co uncil Member Yurchi ck said ca n I ask yo u a que sti on Fra nk'! So tlley put a doublewide trai ler on there and
lowe r th e tax va lu e. What are we talking abo ut , a couple th ousand bucks a _ ·1!ar at th e mos t?
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Mr. Gryglewicz said ii reall y depend s. If yo u co nve rted fro m co mmercial to reside nt ia l use, !h ut is a big. big •
jump , becausl.! co mmercial is assessed at about three ti mes right now. So th at is a big hil , but CJll r prope rty taxe s
are fairl y low.
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Englewood City Council
JBnuary 5, 2004
Pa ge 11
Bll l. Cou ncil Member Yurc hi ck said. takin g a large co mm ercia l building and making a small er 1:ommcrcial
bui ld ing ha s a minimal imp ac l on what the City would ri.•ceive. Mr. Gryglewi cz sa id it wo uld pro babl y ha ve a
fairly minima l impact, unless it hap pened in ma ss and th t'n it. potcn1 ia !l y, cculd ha ve a bi g impact.
Co un cil Member Toma sso sa id I was just look in g at 1h:u . tr yi ng to dec ide if it is so mething we rea ll y need to
look at. If th at is where th e probl em with the car lots slart cd ... wit h demolit ion . If yo u ca n j ust go in and
remove th e lot 11ex 1 doo r. pay less property taxe s on it, becau se it is vaca nt a nd ii doe sn·1 have ~1 buildin g on it,
and re nt it to somebody fo r $3,000.00 a mo nth. whi ch is more than yo u t.:o uld have go 11en fo r th e building . If
yo u s1an doing th at and yo u get the nex t property , and the nex t pro pert y and the ne .xt property. all of a sudde n
yo u've go t all car lots .
Co unc1' Member Brad sha w said hence th e need fo r a Broadway Plan .
Mayor Garren sai d that spec ifi c is sue is one reaso n we have the moratorium in place. Bob talked about
extending it. becau se th ere is a balance we all sLruggle wi th .. the property ow ner's ri ghts to the property they
ha ve, ve rsus having just a solid shee t of car lots going dow n Broadway. Th at is 1he re aso n we pu t a moratorium
in pla ce. We are hop in g to work ou t a compromi se with the ow ners, that make s se nse for all pa rtie s.
Counc il Member Yurchi ck said cu uld I as k Bob ~ que stion now? Are th ey goi ng to do more with that lot than
just put up a doublewidc trailer or are they go in g to deve lop it and build so mething else.
Mr . Simp so n sa id tec hnicall y th ere has been no applicati on for demoliti on or even fo r any rede ve lopm ent on
that property al thi s time . We ha ve se en plans that the y a.re propos in g. That building would be demolished and
wo11ld be repla ced wit h, 1 believe . a 4,000 square foot building . It is a very :mractive building. It is not a
module or a doub lewide kind of unit. It is a ve ry a11nctive building , I ha ve to sa y. Is it exa ctl y what we wa nt at
that prope rt y? Not necessarily . It is one of the reas ons why we had propo sed workin g on the creation of
co mm crc 1al des ign standard s along Broadway, whi ch I think wo uld help guide co mm ercial deve lopment. where
thi,1g s should be and how they need to be brou ght up to the street, to maintain a lot of th e chara cter that exists
on Broadway !oday. Taking down that str uc1ure, repl aci ng ii with 4.000 square feet. th ey were goi ng to
subdi vide th e propert y in half and then sell the so uthern half fo r redeve lopment . They didn't speci fy what type .
And that wa s where they were propos in g to go . But. Co un ci l Member Yu rchi ck sa id. not a car lot. Mr.
Si mp so n said not necessaril y a car lot. Again. demoliti on per mit s were not addressed in th e plan . becau se
de molit ion permi1s are, basically. a use 1ha1 is not governed by Co mmunit y Developme nt. 1 think the y arc
governed by the Building Department. Anybody ca n get them at any 1ime , whe ne ver yo u want th em. Th en
what yo u build has to be a use that is con sistent with th e und erl yi ng zo nin g. That bank, ot fl er co mm erci.-.1 uses ,
\.:r \ms and h.:sidc nti al uses. :ire all consiste nt with unde rl yin g zo nin g th ere. Mayo r Ga rrett said a car lot co uld
not go in, be ca use of the moratorium . Mr . Simpso n sai d yes. at thi s tim e a car Im co uld not go in beca use of th e
morat orium . That is correc t. thank yo u.
But, Co uncil Mem be r Tomasso said. th e oth er half of th at pl ot is parking .
Mr . Sim pso n sai d und er the pl an that th ey di sc ussed with us. it wou ld ha ve bee n so methin g. Th ey didn't say
pa rkin g. I don't w;111110 speak 100 much fe r them, but th eir iss ues th ey addre sse d with us, arc that the y are
dea ling wi1h an old er structure that ha s signifi ca nt structural and rm:c ha ni ca \ problem s a1 thi s 1ime. And fr om
their view point. it ha s ou tli ved its fina nd al li fe . A seco nd iss ue b th ::i t 1hey we re int erested in lookin g at a
stru cture th at was so lely fo r the bank . Th ey are !ired of be ing tcnam s :md ri ght now th:i t :-.truclur c ha s other
tenants in there and 1hey are ac tin g as a landl tJrd and th ey arc not interes ted in th at re spon sibili1 y and role an y
longe r. The City staff. when we got their propos al. too k a loo k at ii. I ha ve to tell yo u, it is ab solut ely pcrn ut tcd
und er th e zo nin g today . There is noth ing I c:111 do, \,it h th e Code :1s it exi sts today. to sto p them . But 1 ca n tell
yo u, with 1hat sa id , 1 did talk to the m and tri ed to improve lh e qua lit y of th eir plan . I do that . that's my job a nd I
try 10 do th at on every project 1ha1 come s in1 0 thi s Cit y. At so me poi nt . an app licant can say ... yo u know what , I
don't rea ll y care and if yo u ca n't po int ii out, that ii is in the reg ul ati ons, 1 wrin'1 be doing it . And I ca n'! poi nt
out th at 1hey ha ve to ha ·•c bri ck, 1hat they have 10 have a ce rt ain se tback , be in a part ic ul ar loc ati on on that
property. have any kin d of de sign siandards or qualit y of co nstructio n, m eve n that they ca n't just tear it dow n
E nglcwootl Cit y Council
Janua ry S, 2004
Pa ge 12
and lea\·c an empty \Cll. As a result. I'm reall y \'c ry much :iam strung on 1his and I can 't go and do anyt hing wtt h
thi s. And t'."!ey, as a rc..~ult. ha w; sai d. we will evalu a!e ~Jr opt ions and we wi ll be 1alking to yo u. And that is
what they are doi ng ri ght now. Mr . Simp",O n sai d I do n't mean to be so blunt. but that is the truth .
But. Co un c.i l Mem ~c; Yurchic k sairf . ev en if 1he Brc,adw ay Plan was in effe ct. th ey cl,uld still bas icall y do wh at
1hcy arc domg. co uld n't th ey !
Mr. Simpso n said .i.t so \ut ely. You kn ow the Br oadwa y Plan is a po li cy doc ume nt , it doesn't enforce, it doesn't
creme , it suggests tha t we do cert ain slep~. Ob vio usly. th at Bro adway Plan helps suppon a lot of the actions
th at o.re nece ss ary to help conti nu e revi talizati on of the Bro ad way Co rrid or. On e th at I think is very impo rtant
for our communi ty. is to address comm ercia l d1:si.~n stand ard s. And wi th out th at Plan, your basis fo r puttin g
those int o place is not as c;,trn ng. Cou ld you do 11? Y cs. but it is j ust not good lega l gro undwork .
Co unci l Member Tomasso said the other poss ibi lit y of fin di ng one of th e car lots and ha ving the ow ner of that
prope n y tra de them a bl ank lot, for th;u half of the propc n y wi th the build ing on it, so that they woul d not have
to cease opcntions . They cou ld build th ei r new ban k and thf.y wo ul dn 't have the cost of shutti ng down th e
bank and they wouldn'1 have the cost of teari ng down ll ,c buil ding and il wo uld be a trade. Wou ld lh at be an
optio n? Mr. Simpso n said I don't know . Mr. Tomas so sai d th at would elim inate a ca r lot ... a bl ank piece of
propert y an d be a wi n/win situ atio n if we saved the build ing that we could use.
Mr. Simp son said you know the re are all !..ind s of possi biliti es a nd I don't mea n to so und flip here, but th ere arc
all kinds of po ss ibilili es th at co uld exis t. At some poi nt when they say. we don'l reall y wa nt to talk abo ut th em
anymore, we want 10 do what we wa nt to do and what is permitted by the reg ul ations, th at is what I ha ve to do
and I don't ha ve any negoti ati on gr ound . l don't. I don't have any abil ity to hold th em up . Th ey can submit a
pl an and they ca n go fo rward. I've see n abso lutel y be aut iful stru ctures torn do wn out of thi s Cit y, out of
do wntown Denve r. out of lots of pl aces and th ey we re done bec au se they could be.
So, Coun cil Membe r To masso said. what do yo u see as preve nt ing that 1 Co un cil P.,icmhc r Yu rchi ck said
buying lhc prope rt y.
Mr . Simpson said th at is certninl y one opti on. You can cc ria inl y ~uy th e property . It would not be my fi rst
reco mme ndati on giv en th e Ci ty's curre nt fi nanci al cl imate. You ca n reg ul ate . That is cert ainl y another way .
Yo u can create a histori c prese rvati on ordin ance , whe reby yo u can be gin to add ress stru ctures of th is panic ul ar
age category and look toward protec tion. Your curre nt hi storic prese rvatio n ordi na nce. eve n if it is a 50 year
old bui lding, would not pro tec t it fr om de moliti on and that is some thin g that doesn't c urren tl y exis t. So. yo u
can create a very stringe nt hi stori c preservation ordin ance that addre sses new er stru ctures and olde r str1ctures .
You can actuall y protect it th ro ugh reg ula1 ion. Howe ve r. I wi ll tell you ... yo u may reg ul ate it, but it may not be
ve ry use ful. if th at make s se nse. Th ey ma y say . okay . you sav ed it, we will moth ball ii. A good ex ample of
that, and I wi sh it woul d co me to so me use in 1i me. 1s !he Evan s Sc hoo l down town, al abo ut l3Lh and Aco ma. It
is an absolu tely bc au1 iful . beau tifu l structu re and it !.hould be preserved and it is bei ng pre serve d, bu t ab so lutel y
not used . It is in very, very bad sha pe . I would hate tu scr us going in th at di rec ti on. Bu t I mean th at certa inly
is a po ss ibil ity .
But , Counci l Me mber Tomasso sai d, wi th the c urrc nl demolit ion co ntra cts, th ere is nothin g that would pre ve nt
anythin g fr om happe nin g to th e Broadway Plan or any of yo ur developme nt s. There is nothin g tha t would
pre ven l so meone fr om coming in and putti ng holes in yo ur plans by !ea rin g thi ngs dow n.
Mr . Simp so n said the Broadway Plan relative to this prope rty is not an iss ue . If yo u passe d the Broadwa y Plan
tomorrow. it woul dn'1 crea te any bett er safeg uards. necc~,;arily, fo r th is buildi ng. But, Co uncil M:-mbcr
Brad shaw said, it would have laid th e fou ndation to pul na fe guard~ in place but now th at we don't ha ve that
fo undati on. we have to s1an over. Mr. Sim pson s:ud yes. The Plan creates the fo unda tions. occa usc what it
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la lks abo ut, id eall y, is sup po n ing co mmuni ty character wo rki ng on co mmercia l des ign standard s and by putti ng •
those in place, th en it all ows us 10 move for ward on the nex t step and be gi n to crea te those regul atio ns that may,
in fa ct. do so me of wha1 you wa nt. Ms. Brad shaw sa id so we arc six to ni ne months bac k. in ge ll ing those in
pl ace. at lea st. Mr . Si11p"':J n sa id yes, at leas:.
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Englewood City Co uncil
January S, 2004
Page 13
Co unc il Mem be r Barrentine said I wo uld ha zard 10 say that I don't think peop le would be anymo re pleased wi1 h
th e His torica l Society mess in g with 1heir pri vate propert y right s. th an th ey we re wit h whn1 the y pcrcr.ivcd, in th e
Broadway Plan. under the con<l..:mnation and th e takings And , I don't think it is appropriate to do it through
another vehicle. eve n if yo u be li r.vc it is fo r a more aus lcrc rea so n. I think ii is the same thin g 1h ut yo u arc
trying to do and tha1 wo ul d be to 1nte1fere with thdr pri vate propert y righ1 s. Coonc il Mcmt>e r Brad shaw sai d I
agree . Ms . Barrentine said I thin k yo u will hav e just as much troub le mak ing people hJppy abou t thi s.
Counci l Member Toma sso i.a id I am just trying 10 an alyz e th e demo. There is no c:or.!rol over demo c:un tracts.
If yo u wa nl to tea r it dow n, yo u come!:-: ::.:1::! te ar it down. Co un ci l Member Brad shaw said if yc u ow n th e
property yo u c:m do wi th il what yo u want. Mr . T ,ma sso sa id oka y. Ms. Brad shaw sai d that is pri vate
entupri.!ioe . Mr. Yurchick sa id except put up a ca, ,1. Ms. Bradshaw saicl exce pt put up a ca r lot, beca use we
put a mora torium on that fo r now .
Co un cil Member Mo... re sa id. more spccifi ca!iy, we co ntrol the use . M~ Brads haw said yes . Mr . Moore sai d we
co ntrol what yo u put on the property. We ha ve no right to tell so meone ,~•hat th ey need to keep on th eir
prop :rty . You can·t fo rce so meone to keep a lem on, if th at's what 1heir view of 1he bu il ding is at this point. It
is m,t our place 10 do tha t, unl ess we are wi llin g 10 buy it . Co unci l Member Brad shaw said we've do ne that
twice.:.
Mr. Si mpso n sai d certainl y th at is an option . If yo u co uld determine a public use for thal structure, turn ii int o a
mu se um for exa mpl e. I'm just poi nt ing this out as an examp le . One of the things yo u could do. yo u co uld end
up decla rin g it fo r publi c use ... yo u co uld condem n it and use it for a public mu se um. Yo u wo uld lh en ha ve to
use it onl y fo r that purpo se, because when you go that route, that is th e only thing you ca n do .
13. City Manager's Report
(a) Cit y Manager Sea rs said just some good ne ws. \\'i.: go t some prelim :nary numbers fr om
Frank . It is good news ... not as good as I wo ul d liked to have see n, but our numbers did show th at co ll ec ti ons
fo r the yea r, agai n fr ma preliminar y number fro m December, showed a to tal of $20.3!2.000.00. As th e
Co unci l may remembr.r, we we re, at one point in time in th e last yea r, at $19 milli on 11s a budtct. Cou nci l did
give us so me preliminary aut horiza tio n 10 make an adjust me nt for th e budget to $20,300,000 .00. We were
$22 ,000.00 above that. We will be bringing back , on th e 20th ,a reso luti on for supplemen tal appropriati on to
actu all y loc k in that projec ti on, so 1ha1 our audi t reflects what the Co unci l gave us approva l to do from an
adjust ment viewpoi nt. So th at is rea ll y good news . We had planned 10 have a prelimimry report on ou r
finances at our nex t meetin g, but in talking to Fra nk and I th ink wit h th e sc hedu le that th e Counc il ha s next
Mond ay ni gh t, because you have a prett y leng th y nig h, wi th Board and Co mmi sMuns, that we wi ll be bringing
th is back to the Cou ncil on the 20th wi th a full report and wi th a resoluti on that ni ght.
(b) Ci ty Manager Sears sai d I just wa nt to reiterate that we made cont ac t with the !egislators and
we aoti l :pate they will be at the fan uary 20 th St udy Sess ion to 1alk about legi slati ve iss ues. I know 1hat th e auto
deale rs will probably be havin g so me le gi slation th:it relate s to ta x rates . So. I suspect th ere will be so me
t.1 isc uss ion th at evening .
(c) Ci ty Manager Scars said we wi ll send an e-mai l to Counc.·i l on th e notifi ca ti on proce ss for th e
pro pose:! Denve r Semi nar y property , beca use 1 ass ume 1ha1 th ere wi ll be a lot or qu esti ons th at yo u may be
gelli ng from residents .
Ma yor Ga rrell sa id I thin k we should post that. as th ere ma y be up 10 th ree or more of us there. Co unci l
Member Bradshaw sa id right .
Ma yor Garrett said Dav id Tay lor se nt us ;111 e-mail regardi ng pote ntial CAM iss ues wi th Mill er Weingarten .
Dircc lo. Ka hm , if you are not prepared 10 talk abo ut th e increa se of the CAM hy Mi ll er Wein garte n thi s
Eng lewood City Council
January 5, 2004
Page 14
evening. that is fin e. We can do it anot~cr da)'. tJUI sim:e yo u have enjoye d th ;s n,ce :in g thi s eveni ng. I thoug ht
I'd give you an opportun ity to speak .
Director Kahm sa id good eve ninp . 1\nd o f c ,urse my an swer i,. I am not pre:,arcd to talk in detail about the
incrca !'>L-S in the CAM . I am prepared to t,dk abo ut rh,; CAM m general. I lv!licve Dan has included, in your
packet, so me pages ou t of our mas1er lease . Did r-·,erybody get a chance to look at 1ho:;e? Cit y Attorney
Brotzman said the y did no! ge t in there . Council Member Bradsh.a w sa:d yo u don't have 10 read t!·em to us
eit her , we will get them late r. Mr . Kahm said 1hc bott om line is thi s. There arc two CAM charge s on this
proj ec t. When we ori gi na ll y did our ECR ·s wi th Miller Weingarten, Tramme ll Crow. RTD and Wa l-Mart . th ey
J \I agreed to basic CAM charges fo r common area maintenance and th at is what th e EE F CAM charge
addresses. It addre sses the street ::, pa rkin g lots . all th e RTD. the bridge, the elevJtor, landscnpi ng -a ll 1he
perimeter land scap ing , all th ose ilems. In that maintenan ce budget, it also includes electricity. waler, and 24n
sec urity . all those types of items . Those were thin gs 1ha1 we were ab le to id entify prior to th e project being
built . In fact, at the time we put th is budp.ct toget ' ,., I work ed wi th John Loss , based on hi s experience at ot her
shoppi ng centers. Keer in mind that 1hese are shop ping ce nler people th al worked on thi s. but we identified
those commc~ items. We establi shed an EEF burt get for !ho se thin gs of $1,091,000.00 a yea r. Th at was
prorated bused on re tail space, office space at a $1.7011 square foot. In the case of Tramme ll Crow, wi th a
mixed use, we h:i d 10 create some formu las th at didn 't exist in the shopping center world . In the casC of
Tra mmell Crow. we have a residential CAM charge based on S200.00 per unit pe r yea r. RTD is based on area.
,-.. '.Cau se RTD hlS 9 10 parking spa ces . plu s bringing all the buses in and out ca used us to ha ve 10 build ex11a
!!!Lrcngth in all of our street s and the re is mo:-c maintenance on the street s the bu ses ru n on. For the concrete
pav ing where the bu ses run, ·.ve ha ve to power wash the oil an d grease off those bus bay s all the time ... those
types of things. So RTD ag reed to J percentage , 27% ot'total CAM costs. Wal -Mart maintains their enti re si te
them se lves. The y take 1.:are of all their own mai ntenance. but Wal -Man docs panicipate about $55 .000 .00 a
yea r towards the comm on area. becau se they recog niz e tha t we ha ve th e Piazza area, we ha ve these public
ac ti vi tie s and the y were wi ll ing to panicipate in tha t way . The City picked up the difference. It turn s out that
the Ci 1y's share end s up coming out at about SI .70 a square foo t. It end s up bei ng about the same as eve rybody
else. In addil ion 10 those CAM costs, shopping centers also have other maintenance co sts . They mai ntai n thei r
buildin gs and they assei-:~ that bal'k , as a CAM, to 1he ten ant s. They charge tenants fo r thei r cost of opcrat jn g
and running a shoppin g ce nter . ~i1ller Weing anen has. across the sile. a number of dump sters . They ha ve lrash
pickup for thei r folks and they ha ve maint enan ce on all the mec hani ca l unit s on all the buildings, so they charge
an additi onal maintenance charge. Quile hPne stly. looking int o thi s, in our ma ster lease, all th os e things are
in clu de d as le gitimate mainten ance cos ts :~·i' th ey are all owed to charge . The 1ena nts sign a contract statin g
that they will pay what those fuir charge s are . Now. up until las t fa ll . when the issue came up about Da vid
Tay lor having prob lem s wi th so me rent and at th at time . he poi nted ou t he was paying $2 .5 0 a square foot for a
CA M. we reall y didn't know that Miller Wci ngo1r!r-n was charging 80 cents a square foot on top of what
ever ybody was already paying for the EEF CAW. ~. ·arges. Al that time . I asked for a detailed breakdow n and I
never rece ived it. I talked to John Loss and Lou Broc k. of Miller Wein garten, a number of time s about it. So
lime went on. and then. back rn December. we recei ved our co s1s fo r 2004 to be pa ssed on to David Taylor , and
the CA M had gon e from $2 .50 to S3 .03. which mea ns th at on 10p or our $1. 70. they arc now char gi ng S 1.33.
Again I tri ed 10 get so me exp lan ati ons fro m Miller Weingarten . but through the holid ays th ere just has been no
one there that knows about it or wi ll admil to know ing aboul how th ese arc calcul.ilt.:d. I did have some
disc us~i ons with our a11orney , Mike Miller , who ha s dealt with the se type s of projcc1s foreve r. The fa ct is that
Mille r Weinga rte n can account for th ose coSIS, be ca use in shopping cente r siluati ons they arc frequent ly audited
by maj or tenants. such as Ro ss and Offi ce Depot. The se fo lk s hire co nsultant s thal audit CAM charges. In fac l.
John Lo:-.s told me, at one point, not to be surpr ised if EEF's CA M charges and the way we arc doi ng busi ness,
would be audited by one of the se majors, becau se that is th e way bu si ne ss is done . In the master lease, there is a
paragraph th at expla ins how all th ese cha rges are calculated . Quite hones tly. as we got into thi s in the last
l'O uplc of weeks, the exp lana tion in our ma ster lease is ab so lut ely wro ng. In term s of the co ncept, it is right. but
1he defi11iti on is wro ng in our n1 as1er lea se. Obviously, when Miller Weingarten wro te th e mas 1er lea se. the y
pulled that secli on off of a strip shopping center, because ii 10.\ks about our space bei ng calcula!e d as a
percentage of in-line retail. which is 28~ of the ove rall proj ec t, and i1 doe sn't fit us at ;ti\. The concep t is right .
In our ma ster lea :-.e. in their ex plunati on. the y were say ing that if yo u had :1 space that was part of an in-line
shopping ce nt er, because the maintenam:e cost on th e building would be th e sa me fo r eve rybody. that yo u
wC'l uld divide your sq uare foota(!C by lhe to tal square foo ta ge in that building and yo u w0u ld have th at
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Englewood City Council
Januory 5, 2004
Pa ge IS
perce ntage . In th cit \ nn lc, 1he in •linc. \\JS 28'k 01 the over.ill prujl.!i.:1:-., i,o you \ .. uul d pay 28'A uf the1r
operating cost~. So,:! ;,, .. sica ll y works tha1 everybod y in the shopping re nt er. wheth er you arc in a big box.
wheth er you are in a pad or whe th er yo u are in.line . wuu ld p:iy about th e s:1 mc thin g fo r bui ld ing ma intt:nance
costs as far as Mill er Wci nga nen·s CAM goes . The except ions mi ght be !lull in 1hc case of th e Gu ll y's bu ild in g,
there is an elevaior in the Ba il y's buildin g 1h a1 is only used by Bail y's. So. in all fairne!ls. you kn ow, th e other
1enants in th e buildi ng shouldn't be paying mai n1 cnancc towa rd that particular ite m. So. th ere coul d be a linlc
va riati on fr om buildi ng to bui lding. and ,,c need 10 work th rough th .:.i with Miller We ingarten 10 re so lve th :u ,
but that wo ul d amo unt to pe nnies pe r r.qu are foo l varmtio n fr om tenant to te nant . EEF is pursuin g Miller
Weingarten now th at we are pa st the holida ys. We arc actually a:,,king for an audi t of thei r CAM cha rges . One
of th e co ncerns 1hat Da vi d Taylor had, as I sa id. was thal the price we nt up 10 $3 .03. and th at also includes a tax
escrow. The propert y tax on thi s si 1e ha s ne ve r bee n reso lved by th e Co unt y Assessor. The re aso n being, that
we just fini shed and received the CO on lhe Goldmi ne pad. which was the la st dcve lopable piece of pro peny.
The Miller Weingarten propeny is all on a 75 year lease and when we put th e co ntract together, we had the
parcel s. but all Miller Weingarten end s up wi 1h leasing is their building foo tprints. And so, until they were done
building. we couldn '1 ge t the surveyin g on all 1he buildin gs and co mplete th at. Th at is now done. The
surveying on thi s las t pi ece should be done with in 1hc nex t week or so. We ha" wo rkin g with the
assessor's office and once it happen s !hey will as ses s property 1ax . They wi ll , ·ach of 1hcse
properties 10 the date 1he CO's were issued on th ese bui ldin gs and taxes will t, uri ng thi s time
fr ame !vliller Wei ngarte n has esti mat ed a tax escrow. La st year they wrre usin, ire foot. I know
Da vid r ~ ·1:,r was concerned abo ul that num be r. We ju st ha ppen ed 10 ha ve a sit u.. ~ the building so uth
of Ross. tnat has Lamar's Donuts ar.d Pay le ss and Cold Stone Cre amery, was a priva L.. . .:cl an d nOI p:111 of 1hc
original Cindere ll a City project. Those of yo u th at were on the Coun ... 11 at that lime wi ll recall th at th at was
pr iva tely ow ned. The pl an was 1ha1 Miller Wein garte n bo ugh! ii and then we reimbursed th em o ur share. Then
th at is supposed 10 be deeded back 10 EEF and then it wou ld be a lease just lik e th e re st of the buildings . BUI ,
bcc.:u.se it went fr om private to private , the assessor assesse d th at buildi ng. I know that la st year that was
assessed at S 1. 77 a square foo t. So I know lhat, ass uming !hat all thi s ret ai l co mes on at the sa me assessed
va lmuio n, bas ically . I am expect in g th at the S2 .00 th at was co lleclcd and esc rowed las t yea r is too high.
So meone has raised th e esc row at Mi ll er Wein garte n. We belie ve i1 happened in Texa s, but !heir eslim:ne for
this year, fo r 2004, was ra ised to $2 .50 . So I think so me of the co nce rn s th at hav..: been exp ressed by Da vid
Ta ylor. in terms of his cos ts going up. wi ll probab ly be reso lved once 1he 1axes :i re reso lved and once we ge t an
acc ounting fr om Miller We ingarten as to wha1 their cos ts ac tua ll y arc on th e projec t a nd what make s up th e
difference .
Cou ncil Member Yurch ic k sai d arc the CA M charge s legally ba sed on th e act ual cost, ac tu al expe nses or ca n
there be a profit in !here'! Mr . Kahm sa id I don't like th e word profi t actua lly . Mr. Yurchick sa id they come up
and say it 1:,, rea ll y S3 .00 a foot, bu t we arc go ing to charge them for 30 cen ts pro fit Mr . Kah m said no, they
ca n charge for their a n.s ite labo r. if th ey ha,·c someone like Lou Broc k managi ng. th ey can charge him. The y
ca n charge hi s workmen·s co mp ... th ..:y can cha rge all th ose labo r rel ated items. Mr . Yurchid sa id then it is
based on ac tu al cos ts. Mr . Kahm sa id yes. based on ac tual costs . The quest ion ca me up lh at th ere was some
concern abou t wh ether th e vaca nt Piazza space was an iss ue here. I don't bel ieve it is. It ca n't be. ba se d on 1h..:
form ula . The Piaz za reta il was part of th e Tramme ll Crow project and it is act uall y pan of a co nd ominium . In
th e ba si c deal, it is nol eve n inclu ded in Miller Wt:in ga rtcn's definiti on of the shoppi ng cen 1cr. So, in 1alking to
~1ikc Mill er, whil e that spa ce pays the $1.70 towa rds EEF fo r our common area maint enance. the cost
assoc ia ted wit h mai ntainin g th at building as part of th at co nd ondni um are totall y se parate from th e re st of the
shopping ce nter . by defi n!1i on. Now whether someo ne in Houston ha s included tha t in the se numbers. we wi ll
know short ly. Bui ii will end up nm bein g included .
Co unci l ~kmbcr Brad shaw said is 1h at alwa ys going to be a movi ng num ber? Mr . Kahm s:ii d it ca n movc ... we
Jctually th ought going into th is project that we had adequate budget. Thi s last ye ar . wit h lhe snows torm we had
in March, we were ove r budget. One of 1he thing s EEF is ab le 10 do. is we arc ab le 10 charge $72,000.00 a yea r
of that CAM 1owards th e admi ni stratio n of the CA M. As Directo rs. we can ·1 recover for Fra nk or Bob and I.
Th:H money doc s co me back in and offse ts Ste ve Da zz io's +;me fo r doing his acco untin g. I suppose. in direc tl y,
1ha1 co ul d be a profit cen ter for us for the Ci1 y. II jus1 re im burse:,, fo r cost of work . Mr . Yurchick said thir va s
my que stio n. was ii based on act ual expenses'!
Englewood City Co uncil
Jnnuury 5, 2004
Pugc 16
But. Counci l Member Barre nt ine sa id, thusc ac 1ual expe nses can indudc ~u me ad mini stra ti ve costs and
overhead . Director Kahm sa id on Mill er We in garten's side , it dcfini 1cly docs. Now, it ca n't include le;1sing
cos ts and ii can'l includ e rea l es 1:nc \.'.ommissions . We will ge t them to yo u. The re is une sec ti on. it is sec tio n
9.1 or 1he genera l lc:1sc and it is three quarters or a pa ge, that hi ghl igh1 s all the th ing s that ca n be included . It is
done by the private sect v1.
Bu1. Coun cil Membe r Barrentine said. as far as Mille r Wei nga rten bei ng ab le to make any money on th at. .. they
can incl ude ~o me of the ir ad min istra tive charge s and what th ey co nsider any ove rh ea d in th at. Mr. Kahm said
they can do that. And aga in . th ey are subjert to audit and Mike Mill er ass ured me th at the se bi g corpcra te guys
wa tch th at very clo se ly a nd th ey will loo k at th ese costs vers us other ex perien ces aro und th e co untry . Ms .
Barren tine sai d I wo nder if th ey ge t any bette r or more tim ely response th an you did ?
l\.1.r . Kahm sai d in thi s parti cular in stance, pa n of the prob lem here ... and I don't mind defending Mille r
Weingarten a little bit here ... is the fo ct th at thi s proje ct is a work in progress. I mea n, we arc just now gening
10 the Go ldmine site coming on and paying their share or CAM , start in g thi s last December. John Loss did
agree last fa ll 10 all ow me to start char ging CAM on the Piazza retail , effect ive last Ju ly. We had an un usual
si tu ati on. because wi th each of th ese owne rs th e deals were di ffe ren t. In !h e ca se of Mill er Wein gart en, Mill er
Weingarten s1aned paying CA M as soon as he had a CO on a buildin g. When we nego ti ated our dea l wi th
Trammell Crow, th ey did n't pay until th ey had a 1enant in the ret ail spa ce . And so, we ge t in10 thi s thin g wh ere
th at's retai l spac e, it is Tra mmell Crow and Mille r Wein ga rt en arg uing ove r who ow ns it . so, when do yo u start
charging , but Jo hn agreed to sian payi ng lasl Jul y. We are just now at a poi nt whe re we will s1art co ll cc1i ng a
full share of CAM fr om all the tenant s on th e site .
Ms. Barrentine sa id on the potenti al qu arter a squ are foo t th at th ey were ove rcharging, poten tiall y fo r taxes,
"hat do yo u think could e nd up be ing th e total, th at they possib ly ove r collec ted ? Mr . Kahm sa id I'm thinking
tha t las 1 year it wa s abo ut a quart er and there arc n total or 222,000 sq uare feet or retai l. So a qu arle r is
$60,000.00, but it is escrowed . It is a lax escrow, so it will go back to folk s. It will proba bly go bac k. The y
ha ve acco untant s just li ke we ha ve acco untant s, and acco untant s nev er give back th e money, I've learned 1ha1,
but whru they would do is they wo uld ju st gi\'e a cred i1 to them in the futu re. That is what we do. What we
ha ve done in the pa s!. when we ha ve spent le<;~ 1i1an the full amount of th e CAM fo r mai nt enance 1he las t co uple
of years, is we don't send RT D back rr...i ncy. they just do n't make a payme nt fo r two or three mont hs th e ne xt
yea r. One of the thin gs 1 am doing is that we we re over budget thi s las t yea r, because or 1hat snow storm. We
have a fund set asi de fo r pa vin g and fo r co ncret e as part of 1he CAM. It is a reserve accou nt and I have already
talked 10 John Loss at Miller Wein garlen. and 1 wi ll talk to the olhcrs and to sec if th ey will all ow us to draw
our overage out or th at co nstructio n reserve and try to ge t us back to even for las t yea r.
Cu uncil Membe r Yurchick sai d were any of th e other tenant s co nc erned or com pl ai nin g or do the y co nsider 1he
$3.03 reasona ble ? Mr. Kahm said it is my understandin g. from talking to fo lk s out th ere. is that when the
1cnant s co me in . the y sign a co ntra ct th at says thi s is th e dea l and yo u ca n charge me what it costs you to
main 1ai n th e shoppin g cent er. Mos l of th ese fo lks w;m t thi s place maintuined . In fa ct, we ge t a lut of
co mpl ime nts. David Tryba co mplimented us on how ni ce thi s projec t loo ks , th is far after it wa s co mplet e.
becau se the se things tend to go dow nhill. The pr iva te sec tor, I'm sorry. but it is all a profi t cen ter, and so yo u
s1ar1 cu ttin g back on land sc api ng and all tho se thi ngs, beca use yo u make more money, but our experie nce has
been th at fo lk s are happy with hav in g thi s th in g mai nt ained. Lou Broc k called us a co 11ple of weeks ago ... 1101
abou: th is last snow~to rm . but th e one beforc ... and he was excite d. becau se he had 1wo inches or snow in the
parki ng 101 and we had n'l plowed those parki ng lots. Our snow co ntra cl doc!<n't req uire two im.:hcs to be
plowed and we sa id we are already ove r budge t. Mi ll er We inga rt en sa id r:11 se the C '-\M . Thcy wan t the
se rvices . 1 haven't hea rd of anyo ne co mplai ni ng abo ut those CA M charges. They go with what the co ntract
says ~md they pay their fair share when they sig n it .
Council Me mbe r Yurchic k sa id no t to defend Mill er Wei ngarten. bu t ii so und s to me like it 1s a case of ... not so
much tha t thei r CAM is unreaso nab le, but it is a case of Oa ,•id Ta ylor ju s1 ha ving limited fund s.
Mr . Kahm sa id that \..'O uld be, I ha ve n't heard anyone ebi: co mp lai n. I know th e fe ll ow with th e Pub, he just
wa nts to ru n hi s Pub . They d1.,n't want to be in vo lve d in po litics. they don't wa nt to be in vo lve d in managi ng a
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Englewood C ity Council
J anuary S, 2001
Page 17
shopping center, they want to pay lhc bil ls and run th eir bu sine ss. That is pretty mu ch what we have
experienced out there. We will ge l the numbers. he said, because we de.'ierve th e numbers . they owe them 10 us.
14 . City Attorney's Report
City Attorney Brotzman did not ha ve any m:111crs 10 bri ng before Counci l.
15 . Adjournment
The meeting adjo urned at 9:05 p.m .