HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998-01-19 (Regular) Meeting MinutesENGLEWOOD CITY COUNCIL
ENGLEWOOD, ..aAPAHOE COUNTY, COLORADO
Jatnu•r,· 19, 1998
I. Call 10 Onler
The n:gular meeting of lbc Englewood City Council was called 10 order by Mayo, BUlt15• 7:41 p.m.
2. bvoc1tion
The invorotion was given by Council Mcm!r.·c ,~·,bholz.
3. PlcdP,C of AIIC1ti• .. •
The Pledge of Allegio ,1cc was led by Mayo: Burns .
4. Roll Call
Pn:scnt:
Abs<nt:
Council Mcmbcn Nnbhol z. Clapp. GanttL B~ Halaichl.
Waggoner. Bums
None
A quorum w:11 p~nl.
Also present : City Manager Scars
Cuy Anomcy Brow nan
Cny Clerk Ellis
S1arf Linison Lnngon. Cle.in. Green and Proud Ccmmiss1on
D1n:c1or Olson. Safety Services
Dil\.'C!Or Simpson. Neighborhood an d BuS1ness 0...dopmcnt
Director Estcrl)'. Public Works
5. Minutes
(n) COUNCIL MEMBER NAB HOLZ. MOVED, AND IT WAS SECONDED. TO
APPROVE TH£ MINUTES OF TH£ REGULAR M££TING OF JANUARY~ '"'·
Motion carried .
Ayes : Cou nci l Mc111bcrs Na bl1ol z. Garrett . Bradshaw. H3bcmehL
Waggoner . Clapp . Bnrns
Nays : None
6. Scheduled Visilun
(a) Jerry N,!ry. Sou1hwcs1 Program Mnn,,gcr for RTD . upd.11ed Counctl oo \\here we :uc
wi1h 1hc Southwest Corri Jar. from the perspective or RTD He snid he reels tllC.re R.lSbecn :s lol of
progress ;ind that pcopl<. arc seeing n 101 or co11s1mc1io11 under \\J)'. He s.1 1d Susan Abic:s.. Community
Development Administr.:!or ror RTD . would be handing out 1hc 1110s1 recent raa shet1 on the Sou1hwcst
Corridor . He said 1herc wns one out previousl y th at just gn,·c so ,n c of 1hc facts belund some of the
plnnning cffons . Wt! (inalizcd our design 111 (IJIJ1 . he s.11d. and s1;1ncd rcloc:11111g uulwcs. and ucm we arc
1111.......,. Oty C1111ncll
J~19,l991
.... 1
under idl COllllJUCtion, moving din d11'1he'Sotl1hwts1 Clorrioor. Hcl pohucd ou1 lhe graphic on lhc back
side oldle handou~ sh0Wffll'an11.7 ,nile corridor which i~ divKlod Irita (6ur oegmcnts . 1110 fim scgmcn1
is &u. Mineral 10 Belleview. hr. said, not includh g the Belleview structure. Thnl conunctor is Lawrence
c.c..rn.ctioa and lhcy 118\-c uncd construction. he ndvllCd . The nc:1C I segment is from Belleview up to.
tu DOI iDcludins. Oxford. and 1h.1t conlrnd h.1s been awarded 10 Kramer and Sons. he said. and 1hcy have
IW!alCIOIISIJUCUOn . The segmcnl from Oxford up 10 and including Danmou1h has also been awarded 10
"-and Sons . Consuuction has also been sinned 1hcn:, he nddcd . Mr. Nery s.1id 1he lns1 scgmcnl is
f'tonl Odord nonh up 10 lhc Broadway and lhe 1-2S Park nnd Ride s1n1ion, which has been owordcd 10
PCl.. Construction. nnd they hnvc :a lso Slancd constniction . Ms . Alles has been \,orking closely with
Cmda£llo Ci1y n:developma,t and worting ,.;,1, 1hc Cily SfalT people . he said . We wan1 10 srny focused
,.,m oar people on the dc.tign and construction as the Ci 1y sta ys focused 011 Cindcrclln Ci1y. he said. so
thal CiDdcrcUa City ond 1hc Southwest Corrid or become a mnjor national model development ofa transil
c:onidlw . If there arc questions tluu come up on 1hc corridor, he odviscd. Ms . Alles hos been our lead
pcnoa •-bo has been working wilh lhe dcvclopmcnl nnd wi1h lhc businesses. neighborhoods and scvnral
of the members or Council . We wnnl 10 be sure we h:wc 1his rcl.nion ship going through this whole
c::orridc,r'_ Our schedule indictlcs th.it we still arc i111cnding to have this open ror revenue service b) 1111d-
}'Cal ltJOO . We have Park and Rides al the Evans s1:11ion and the Hampdcu srn11011. wluch 1s 1hc
Cmdadla Ciry redevclopmcnl. he s.iid . We have a st:nion al Oxford , though we don't hnvc amicip.1100
~ at thi~ time. bu! we do h:1\'c 1Ji.11 planned ror !he year 20 It Also. \\C hnvc expansions or the
Min:nl Park and Ride. whidt is cxpccced 10 be open by 111id-yc.1r 2300 . he said .
Mayor Bums n:alled 1hal he spoke wi1h Mr. Nery n couple or weeks ago dow11 m Linleton and he had
mcntumed 1h..,t they were going lo do constmclion. He smd ii seems lhey arc now widening the track bed .
c:s;x:=a:!ly rig!ll nc.-.:t to Santa Fe between Oxford and Hampden . You talked about doing work on the
bridges. be s:1id. and rcc:tllcd his mc111io11ing 1hey mighl wc.rk on all four of 1l1c111 al once . M,1yor Bums
asked if that is correct . Mr . Nery responded I hat 1hc con1rne1ors 11:l\'C set schedules tliat coillc1dc wi1l1
c:cn.am mile Slones 1ha1 lh~ ha\'e to meet to help the r:1ilrrod rclocalc their freight lin es . From about
Tufts 0ortl1. "~ arc on the cast side or the freighl tracks. and then we shin o\·c r 10 the \\CSt side or the
tracks. he s:ud To make 1ha1 happen, we ha \'c 10 have ccnnin s1rnc111rcs .iv;ul;1blc for 1hc r.11lr~1d so 1hc)
C3Jl O"O\C I.heir lines C'vcr. We ha\'c worked wi lh our co111rnC1ors, he co111i11ucd. 10 minimi 1.c an~1!11ng that
"'ould oeg:u..ivc ly impac1 an~ or the 1ramc through 1hc major ro.1dwnys that cross through the City 11,
Dca"a. we C\-en ha\'C Iowa 1h.llt is. n glu now. one way . Al Mincml. tltC) h;l\'c kepi ;1ll 1llc l:mcs opcu. bul
the:-a..~ woriang with 1he C11y 1raffic ~'Opie 10 make sure th~ meet 1hc1r ueeds r\.'1r Ne~ assured
Coonal I.hat he also intends 10 \\Ork \\llh the Ci1y lraffic people here . 10 make sur e 1ha1 \\C don '1 have an)
ooe rtladwa} closed or rcslnctcd 1h.11 \\0uld neg;llt\CI~ 1111pac1 the Cit)
~laJ 0f Burns asked if the fly-over in Englewood will be dune i11 1999 . Mr. Nery responded 1ha11hc n)
0''Cf al Tufts ,son 01lf crirical pnth and will be done. probnbly. uud-1 !.199 . We ,ire look mg to finali1..i: all
the bnd.gcs so 111:11 we can move U1c tracks ove r for lhc rrc1ghl. he sa id . Then. we \\'Ill b111ld all of our
bgiH 1'211 tracks and ha\'C 1hose ready by e.1 rl y 2000. aHcr which our le.sling co 111inues for six months . he
~ue:i before we go inlo opcrat111g sen 1cc
~~cc Bums sa id he met a coup k or \\CCks ago with Li11lc1011 officials :md Se11:11 or Allard to c.-.:prcss our
amc:r:i tl1.1 1 we con11nuc to fond 1h1s proJ CCI 1hro11gh Co ng ress Mr NCI)' co nfirmed 1hat they rece1\cd
S:3 5 mi ll 1011. a nd s.1 1d he 1l11nks lhc~ arc look mg al :1boul S60 million the ue .~1 fisca l )car He s.1 1d 11 \\il S ~= S ic:.l . .hon 1:; I 996. S2 3.5 m11l1011 111 1997 and then $60 million wilh the 11c.x1 scgmcnl or co~I
appropnauons Ma~or Bums s1n1cd 1hat City Manager Si;;1rs and Li11lc1011 officials met on Fnda~ wllh an
aJdc b Scna1or Campbell on the Senate Appropriauons Co 111111i11cc. We wa111 to keep m 1ouch wilh th ose
folks.. lie said. as we go along. They t:hangc aides from 11111c to time , he said. and 1hcy need 10 be brought
up lo speed as to where we :arc wi 1h lh 1s proJcct. and the f.1c1 1s 1ha1 lhc loca l officials me extremely
llJI.CE5ICd in pressing for the funding. so 1h:11 1hc sc hedule is m:1in ta111ed on 1111s
Englewood City Council
January 19, 1998
Paa,,J
111 11 J 11) boon·11:;iu
l'lllt \' ,-. .. mu.I
,q
Mr. Nc,y uidwc have a full fWldlnggnm1 •111=-•tlc••il<lk:Sl77 millioo and IY" ha"e 10 aobjld<
each year for money . TI1c lobbying by 1he ci1ics and Ille foda:al IO tile congressional and people at dljll
level has nhvoys helped us gel lhosc fundings ond. hopefully . ,.;u, our lobbyists . 1ha1 will continue . We
don 't sec any problem, witli ge11ing lb!: funding IO a,aplClc lllil jol> by mid-year 2000 , he advisod .
Council Member Habenicht nsked Mr. Nery if he is familiar •1th ou.r change of di reel ion toward s a lmnsil
oricnlcd development nl Cindcn:lla Ci1y. Mr. Nc,y said tllaa c-nity Dcvclop111c111 Adminisim1or
Susoo Altes has been work ing closely with th:il group aad sbrupdalcs our departmcnl head on tllal. He
said he ii awa re lhcre l.ivc been various chanaes. bul lie is swc Ms. Altes knows where we nrc heading.
Ms . Habenicht said she just wruns 10 be sure tlicy arc-iw,gdcaly wilh our staff and ti.ii"~ arc able to
coordinate . Mr. Nery ,aid lhcy have a good relationship wa al,c C-rty enginccriog Slaff, lhc business
dcvelo)J)mCnl SUIIT and lhc u1ili1ics group . He opiood tlaat lilq, U¥C all been in IUOC i,ith what Ille project
is all abcoll since thccorly pL,nning stages through to a,1151,...ion . He saii he hopes wc arcoot missing a
heal on an)' or I hat and we ha\'C a daily working rcla1ioosh ipGD whdl way we arc procce.d.iog.
Mayor Bums said he 1hmks we h;wc had, im1inll). a pcx,uvc:,:csponsc 10 .u kas1 oonsidcr a possible stop
on the line a11hc General Iron facdil)'. although we arcJUSI beg•1uW\8 10 c.,posc 1..hc public to some
plnm1ing in 1h.11 area . Mr . Nery acknowledged tlia1 II is lu gji oc1 <k ri1y's lis1 fo r possible rcdcvclop111cn1 .
adding 1h11 1h .. y arc nl\\ays open 10 see wh.n would bappea aacc tl:ic) get this whole corridor built . He
said RTD's pl nnning staff. along 11i 1h Ilic land s1:uT. has bca 1avoh-cd with 1he a1'3ilahili1y of that land
and its fulu~ uses . He opined that II looks posi1i,'C.
Council Member Nabhol z asked Mr. NCI)' if he finds wt av dqm,mcnls work \,ell in notifying each
olhcr in rcgnrds 1;1 rncc1ings :wd thnl we nrc all on 1hc s;une page. Mr. NCI)' sa id yes. !here arc n l01 of
meetings :ind otltcr things goin~ on al 1hc same lime bc:lwcm the c:oo1rac1ors.. consul1an1s and City ,1atr.
We have been able 10 form a s1rong relationship. be said. wU UC Planning. Uuhtics and Engineering
slaff. he s:iid , so 1ha1 we all have one goal in commoD.. wadi u &o get th is corridor up and runnin g by the
yc.,r 2000 . We sec Ci nderell a Ci 1y as a major p.1n in that wlboJc n:dct•clopmcnt. he said .
Council Member Habcnichl said she would lik e 10 hear h111J1say one more time that he would Ii.kc to sec it
be a model for the Mt ,o n. Mr. Nery said it has al"'3)S bccni lllli.ed al:>ou l. 1101 onl~ in our commuuic.11 ions
with the su nouudioy, cit ies. bul eve n al a na1101l:1l lC\d TI1lt Fedc-r3J Tra11 s11 Adm1 11i s1mt1on h.1s a lso
looked ill this. and lllcy arc the ones who arc our nl3JOr fwldia\g ponucr in tlu s.. and 1hey are always ask mg
ilboul the redevclopmcn1 of Ci nderell a Cily , saying 1h1s 1S a prune opponunit) to mak e tr.111 511 a ma in
foc us of this de\'clopm cnt. When tht1 hc.1 r 11 1s g01ng smoodll) and acco rdin g 10 sc hedule. he ad ded . Ibey
arc really elated about the whole thing
Mayo r Bums co nun cn t~d th:11 . when they sponsored a 1r:u1S:I. onemed dc\'clo pmcnt co ufercncc here a
couple mon1hs :1 go, 1he Cinderella City proJCCI was ,cry prcm11ncm 111 the mo mmg sessio n. and so we
rc:1 11~ did ob1a 111 a 101 of 11;1tio11al c,posurc
Mr. Ncr;, added rh.11 Ms . Altes wa s \CC) 111s1n11nc111.1l tn puamg th.JI co nference 1oge1hcr It was with her
help tha t we foc use d on .u least En gle\\oocl but 1hcrc "ere .ll k>l of Ol her cities na110 1m 1de We arc hopm g
we can be ahead of th em 111 this \\hole thmg. he s:ud Mr 'cl') 5:lld he 1h1 11ks \\C \\illll l0 be :1blc 10 co me
bnck periodic.1lly so th e~ c:111 hea r s1r.u gh1 from Rm "bet"!' we :irt" He sa id he 1s sure the Cny 5t;1fT 1s
keepi ng them well abreast of \\ll:11 1s go rn g on. bul soma1ma 11 LS good 10 hc.1r II from RTD ~.r. Ncr;,
sai d they fed they li.t\ c., s1ro ng pann cr in lhc C1ay of Engiiowood and e:cprcs.scd apprcciu1 1l'II fo r :111 the
funding support that th ey hnvc go ne 10 Was lungtou 10 bclp •11h. He fee ls 1hru pa n11 crsl 11p ,J1o uld
conlinuc a! leas t uni ii lhe yea r 2000 .
lnalewood Clly Coondl
J•nury 19, 199H
ha• 4
11h ) I J l1Li 111•.1J:fl
lit l'I (.'I IUCfl \
I ~L11
Mayor Burns said we arc very c,'icilcd about it, adding 1hn1 we ha,·c people in this audience who testified
al RTD ll<lenl mee1ings nboul !his ns lhe projl.-cl hns co,ne nhng. He said we huve a lo! orco-uniry
suppor1 and i1 Is YCty ••clling 10 ,ee II developing.
Council Member Clapp lhnnked Mr . Nc,y for his hnrd work and coopcralion. ond asked 1har he pau 1hal
on 10 the Board .
(b) Jody Swanson, 4096 So111h Cherokee S1rce1. !old Council Iha! she owns her home.
localed on 1he nonhcost comer ofOxford nnd Cherokee . She advised lhal. laSI November. she hired •
conlraetor 10 build " simple londscaping woll surrounding lhe propcny 10 n:placc o bodly de1enoro1ing one
thal was olrcody then:. She asked lhe contrnclor lo build the wall right up lo the sidewalk. basically for
maintenance and appearance reascns . The oon1rnc1or begnn """'· she said, bul 1hc work was halted for
various n:a,ons, including lack ofan encroochmenl agn:c1ncn1. She said she wis unawnn: 1ha1 the City
owns thal l\vclve inches back from 1he side\\nlk, poniculnrly since a lot of her neighbor, have walls built
righl up 10 1he sidewalk and lhcy ~id not gel encronchmcnl agn:c111en1s . Ms . Swanson said she has
photographs of the wnlls. ifncccssnry . Sh e s.iid she bclic\'cs she was cited because they arc in a highly
visible localion. She s.,id she ck>cs wanl to build the w;ill nnd she ,v:1111s to do ii right She s.-ud she is here
this evening to request approval for cncroochmcnl on the Oxford and Cherokee sides or her propcny TI~
wall had been staned alrcndy on the Cherokee side . she nd"iscd . so ii is up 10 the sidewnlk To 1110,-c 1hc
wall. al this point. would cost in excess of S.SO0. she said . Since it has already been quite costly , Ms .
Swanson said she would like 10 avoid Rny nddilional costs. as well as any additional dam.,gc 10 her
property . bcc.iusc. if she hns 10 move the w:1II bi1ck. a lot or juniper bushes will have to be sncriflccd . She
said she understands th:11 . ir the Ci1y decides 10 \\'iden O.xford or Cherokee :u any po111t. she ma~• have 10
move lhc wall back .
Mayor Bums asked if this mnltcr hns been in the Municipal Coun . City Attorney Brotzrw-• ~ ·ntinncd
that it has. adding that Council should hnvc received a lcucr from one of the proscculors 1r1 !he Municipal
Coun on it Mr. Brotzmnn Sllid this will be handled by s1nfffro111 I his poinl forward . nnd 1hcy will come
back 10 Council on the cncro.1chmcnt.
Council Member Br.1dshnw asked whnt tim e frame we nre loo k;11 g at Cil} Allorney Brot ,.111:m responded
1ha1. if she "ill co1unc1 stnfT. he can luwc 11 bitck 10 Co1111cil by the next Council meeting
Mayor Bums asked Ms . Swm1so11 if she 11mlcrs1ood \\ hill the ~ \\ere s:l~ mg. 1ha1 1f she will co111ae1 staff.
they can have it bnck by lhi: nc :d Council meeting Ms . Swan so u ilSkcd who she should co111ac1 Mr
Brotz.m.an sa id Bob Simpson or one of his starr can help her .
7. Non-scheduled Visiron
l11crc were no 11on-schcdulcd visi1ors
8. Communic:itiuns, Proclam:llions :11ttJ A1111ui111mcn1 ...
There were no comn111nic:11i ons. proc:l:1111:111011s. or appoi111111 cn1 s
Public Hc:1rin~
(:,) COUNCIL MEMBER WAGGONER MOVED, AND IT WAS SECONDrn . TO
OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING TO GATHER CITIZEN INPUT ON THE CORNERSTONE
PARK PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT AMEND~IENT.
Ayes: Council Members NabholL. Garrell , Brnd sh;m , Hat-.:111 ch1.
•
•
ta(lkwood City C°"M'll
J1•u1ry 19, 1998
P1ae .l
.:aa,oacr, Clapp. Bwtis
Nays : ~
Motion corricd and the public baratc opened.
AU testimony was given under oadl
> t11 > I •-.uff:11,:cn
I I '"I
'I
Jeff' lagrum, who re.ides ia C......., Spriup. told Couaal he is the owner or the Skntc City roller sknllug
rinks in the State or Colorado. He sui<I he would lii<c to discuss the proposed roller hockey facilities at
Comcrstoi,c Park . On Scplcmbcr I .. ! 991. he a11d his w1rc added their sixtl1 rink 10 1hcir business line . he
said. by pun:hasing the Skate Cily •Linlcton 111 5801 South Lowell Way . For fiOccn )~1rs, he advised,
they have conducted hodcey ~ II :all o( tlocir other fociliucs and 1.ive expanded the program at th,s
facilit y. He said he wants to o.pL,al!lO Council what the) do and how they do II and how lhis will affect
tl1cm. He explained that he ,s 1.b,: 1!,o,rtJi Ccn1ml Confemia: Realou11I Coordinator for rollct hockey for
tl1c Olympic group. the ore. He Sllld be II m charge or roller hockey in this ten state aroa as rar as tl1c
OTC is considered . We haw~ a real significnm program, he said. with the L1rgcst tral'eling
team progrnm in the country . Whew we purchnscd 1hc rink 111 Scp1cmbcr. he contim1cd. our 1n1crcs1s were
to definitely expand 111.11 prograa iWld we moved a young man and his family. from our Pueblo rink, up
here 10 be our p.1rtncr 10 do thal.. Tibt issue here isn ·1 rallJ :1bo111 Englewood . but South Suburban
operating the racilil)' T~ ... ldva<d, there t• legis lation iu the State that soys S!ICCl•I
=rcational d:Slricts atn DOl ....-, 11wld or ftna•icc bcil~ics 11•11 •~ in direct campclitlon will, private
business. Mt. Ingrum said 11r--ol'tllis legisblion. which 11ns passed in 19119, and ii had a direct
eJTcct on whether be wanted ID padaa: this rink and c.~nd these hockey programs. He s.,id he wan led
10 bring it to Council's anrntiOII because II 1s a rc:11 conccm to him . We had our first lc.1guc in lhc f:111 and
had 220 players. he advis':d. and we muivc c.xp;,ndcd ii to add ndnhs nnd women ·s lc.1gucs . If ii ge1s to the
s:imc lc\'CI ns our other loc:Jt iOGL he.· conuncmcd. we will ha\'O nbout SOU players per season . We buy all
the cquipmc111. he s.1id. suppl,-11 focr nil the pl .1)crs. and we give them 1hc1r Jerseys for lhc recs . We hn\c
'-°"'C" saartcd our on11 hockey 35lillCXUILO■ \rid1 a full lime anploycc who goes around and takes pictures of
tbe kids. and writes lcncrs """ ar1Jdlc, IIOOli them . Mr lngn1111 stated tl•1t the)' process their own
rnsurnncc cards and have purdasc:d! 1.hc1 r own insurnna: progr:utt . We have done this . he snid. with a lot
of clTon and considcral ioo. andar;mfcssionally as pct55,tblc. so much so th ;11 we ha\'C people from all O\Cr
tile country come ou t 10 look ill our FQgr:Jm As far as we arc concerned. he asserted. 11 1s ag.1ins1 S1a1c
legislation for South Suburban 10 op:rnte roller hock~ nnJ..s 1l1crc. bcc:111 sc 111:11 sJ..a1111g nnJ.. 1s 111 Sou1l1
Suburban's rccrcauon distria Mr ngrum lcO some lucr.uurc 10 sh o,._ lhc kmd of program 1hcy oiler !he
Cily of EnglC\\ood :md L111letoa. \Yhuch he rcpc;11cd 1s ._c~ prokss1011a ll J douc nnd ,,ell orga11 1,cd The
response :ll 1l11s nnk so far ha5 bce!1 l:7\'Cmhclmmg. he s.:ud ;1dc!111g that lhc) nrc hm 1118 a 1011rnr11 nc111
lherc tJus week and at all four of the 1oc:a11ons 1111hc Cit )
M.1)'0r Bums asked if Mr. lngnaa-tltwks thas loc:ition 1s nol III the Cil) of Engle\\ood , Mr lngnun
responded lhat his Li11lcton kx::3tlmll111 not an tl1c Cit). but II is in South Suburban·s di sl ncl . That 1s really
the issue. he said. The Ciry of E-.&b-ood cm do wh:u 11 ".inls 10 do. he snid. b111 the opc:r:11 1011 of 1hc
f.icility by South Suburban is na w~l_?OSCd to h;:ppcn . Rcspondin8 10 Council Member Br:1dshaw. Mr.
Ingrum said anylhing that is pnn.11!1h bu1l1 lS free cnu:rpnsc and is 1101 any different 1ha11 whm he 1s
doing . But special rccrca11ooal dlstitu:ts cm not do 1ha1. he said.
Mr In gru m 10ld Council 1h~ shoull!l lta\"C rccc1,cd a fa, or :i lcllcr rrom an :illom~. "l11ch has a co p~ of
the legisln11011 01111 Mcmbc:n a{C..,uncll s;i1d 1he) h.1d no t rccc1\Cd 11 )Ct Mr lu gmm s.1 1d 1hc) \\Ill be
rece iving JI . He s.11d II e.~pla•m II au.Lt! 111 bold prmt. II il.ls the iss ues th a 1 arc d1rcc1I) nfTccted . \\llh roller
sk:itmg listed spcc1fic.1lly .
City Anomcy Bro1zmi\n adnsc:d ttmL.. \\(K:11 , .. c \\'CIII 1hroug h tl11s th e n~111111e \\llh S011111 Suburba n.
lhcrc was an issue on pull-pull goUi 1md \\l1.t11 hoops th~ hnd 10111111p 1hro11gh . 111 1ha1 very sm ne scc uon
EncJcwood Clly C:ouncll
January 19, 199K
P11<6
ti,on,'#h l;1111
I r.1, ,n I
> :,:1,-t
of the State Statute, he said , on: roller skating rinks ns ,..11 ns putt•pull golf courses. so ae an wking
about the s.imc scclion that we talked about bcfun:.
Mr. Ingrum n:p:ated that the conflict does not come from Englewood building iL bul radler froa, South
Suburban opcraling it.
CObnell Member Bradslunv asked if the district is aware of this, Mr. Ingrum aid tbc dmrict has boon
sent this inform.,tion also, so, if they an: not, they will be .
Mayor Burns said it should be looked at quickly , because then: is o meeting scheduled fc.-l'llw!llay with
members of their board on issues such as payment in lieu of ta.tics and fee struc:aurc.
Mr. Ingrum said he feels Council can undcmand his concern, as taxpayers. Anyone.....,_ own a
business would be rcluctan110 pay taxes and hnvc 1hosc 1nKcs. in tum . run c:ompc1 i1ion aim drlarown
operation. That is whnt this law was intended 10 stop. he said. or to at leasl try 10 make fau ..
l11crc we re no further ques1l011s and no one else present to speak lo the issue.
COUNCIL MEMBER WAGGON ER MOVED, AND IT WAS SECONDED, TO CONTINUE THE
PUBLIC HEARING TO GATHER CITIZEN INPUT ON THE CO.llNERSTONE PUie
PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT AMENDMENT TO TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 1'9S.
Ayes : Council Members Nabhol z, Gam:tl B12dshaw. Hal>crucht.
Waggoner. Clapp. Bums
Nays : None
Motion carried and the public hcnri ng will be co 111inucd .
(b) COUNCIL MEMBER WAGGONER MOVED, AND IT WM, SECONDED, TO
OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING TO GATHER CITIZEN INPUT ON AN AMENDMENT TO THE
MUNICIPAL CODE RELATIVE TO TRASH COLLECTION.
Ayes: Council Mem bers Nnbholz. Gnrrcn. Bradshaw. Habcmdu..
Wa ggo ner. Clapp. Burns
Nays : None
Motion cnrricd andJhc public he.iring opened .
All ICS' imony wns given under 0.11h .
Clc.111,, Jrccn and Proud Commissiou Slaff L1a1so11 Lrngon. iol d Co1111c1 I \11:11 the maucr before ahem
1onigh1 is an ordinance amending Tilk 15 . Chapt er 2 or the Englewood Munic1p.1t Codt-::autlcd Trash.
Junk and Salvage . The :1111cndm-:n1 is 10 require m:rnrtitory subsc ription 10 !rash collccttOA scnice in 1hc
City . The ordin.,ncc wns inlroduced and passed on fir !>l ren ding , she nd\'1rcd. on Occc111bcr IS . 1997, and
notice of tonight 's public hearing was puhlisl1cd on Dccc1nbcr I 1J. 1997 in lh c Englc:v.ood Hcr.:1ld She
submilted Proof of Public.11ion for the record . She also submincc.J. for the record . mo kncr5 Ln opposauon
to lhc proposed ordinance :11nc 11d mc111. A co py oflhc first lcllcr. she said. was tnclooc:d m the Council
packet. Thi.: seco nd lcue r \\.IS received 1oday from Dons Baker and disinbutcd to Cour..:il a1 1he11 St ud~
Session th is c,·cni1 1g. she s:1id. Ms . Baker spoke at i1 previous mc"1111g. Add111011.:dl~. M.> La.ugon
·ubmi tted . for the record. :rn e-111n1l from Sue B1adsha\\'. of the City Manager·s Office. regarding a ph o ne
cn ll she tcok 1od:1y fr'lm a Den\'er residen1 co ncemcd w11h lrnsh c.J11111pmg by Englewood n::sidcms m
Denver . Ms . Langon .1d\'ised that Ncig hborhooc.J aud B11s111ess Dc,·elopmcm staff in"·ohcme:tl m this
issue and th ;;: proposed ordin ance ha s been limi1 cd to clerical and support \\Ork She sud she-'-'Ould giH a
briefb.1ckp,ro1111d of why :md how lh cy :ire here 10111 gh1. and 1he11111 ,,11hc prcsen1 a1100 C)llr.-U. to Don ~oth .
clmir of the Clean. fi~•1 and Proud Co mmi ssion ·s Mu11ic1pal So lid WaSlc Subcornmnttt She advised
•
•
Eapow_. 01)' Council
J-,yl,. IHI
Pace 7
1,J 111,, l,. , hofl • l.:.in if
l'\'l' ni.t.
,. 'I
that~ with mwiiciPt'lJ solid wa5tc lSSUcs go bnck 10 I 991. and probably C\Pcn funtacr. when
mandaloly<llllbsidc umh c0Jlectio11 w•JS first considered. At Council's direction, she said, the Clear.
Grccn.aiMIPmud Commission held n public hc.aring jn l.'JIJ2 , 11 11d. at ui..1 111 ring, rcsidc111s s1ro1~gly
opposed Ille QICb5idc collcciion component of ~hu1 proposed ordin11ncc . No fun her act ion on tl1c trash
iauc: ocaaad Wllil 1995, when C~uncil BiU IS was introduced requiring mandatory lraSh collection and
I.bat lic<aad baulcn provide r=ycliog services to rcsidculS . '!'lc11 bill also ~•j not proceed. she snid .
Council -r<q11<<tcd Clc.w. Green and Proud to ,tudy the municipal solid 11~stc issue and suucst
altcmalnu.. The Commission's currcnl worl< includes discussions with trash hauler's. analysis of trash
collc:aioa. paclia:s in surrounding municipalities. review of lhe current ordinance and a random survey of
rcsidcab rqardi.Dg lrash collccuon, she SCJlcxl. The Commission found that. tx.-cnusc the current
ordima::c does not require subscription to 1rash hauliug service. it contributes to an accumul.ation of trash
and tbc iJlcpl dumping or rcsid:111iol umh in co111111crcial dumpSlm . Ms . L.u,gon said 1ha1, to addrc5s
lbcsc two cama:ms. the Commission recommends that the Ci1y require mandatory rcsidcntiaJ sub5eription
to tram colcctioo .service by a licensed hauler. She s.1id she wanted to sr.y up front that the proposed
ordinance does noc require curbside collCC1io11 . Collcc1io11 would rc111ai11 in 1l1c nllcys . Also. she said. th::
proposed OlxLi.nanc:c docs not propose hauling by a sin&lc company, but ralh cr. residents would con1inue 10
have a c::llaacc af haulcrs, so the open. compc1 i1ivc 111:irkct \\Ould rem ai n ;is II is today . The Clean. Green
and Proud Commission feels that the ordin.1ncc. by declaring an acc1 1111ula11on of 1rnsh 10 be a 11uisa11cc.
and~ .aaand:uory trash coJlcction subscription. would provide a panuership 1001 wi1h Code
E.ofoltJea:9I 10 help reduce liner. reduce t~s.h accumul:uion. and reduce illegal dumping in commercial
dwnp:slCl'S.. •da,: S.'.lid. Sl1e advised 111:11 tl1c dmftiug of !he amcndme111s to tl1is ordinance have bccu the
~-orlc oftheEngJcw'OOd Clc:111. Green :ind Proud Cmnmission . Sl1c 1l1cn 1urned 1l1c presc111:i11on O\er to
Mr. Reth.
Don R.otb_.!830 Soulh Shcnnan S1rcc1. s1a1cd thul lie is IILC Vice Cli:11r of 1l1c Cl~111 . Green and Proud
Couunissiam.. and has been Chamnan of the M1:11ic1pal Solid W;1ste Subcomm111cc for a little 0\"cr a )Car.
He told Coumcil that !hey bcgow looking al 1his is.sue .tllC\\ in NO\c mbcr of l1J%. There \\ere stx
Englewood ttSidcnts on the co 111111i11ec initially. he said. \\Oriting with former Co uncil Member Ai
Vormntag. initially. we were looki ng more i11 th e dircc1ion l>f a co11trar.1 \\llh a srnglc h;1ulcr . he ad\lscd.
and spau. a iot of hours inteniewing trash luulers nnd lookinM, at all of the pros and cons of lhe issue .
Ull.11D3ldy~ !be said. lhey came lo the conclusion tli:u we really uccded more public input to ee1 a bcucr
handle oa. •ildhcrwc rc.1lly had somclhing to work 1ow;1rds and if our goals were realistic . In April.
1997. '11-'C KD't.ed..tog:lher i 1h Lhe haulers. who r111.111ccd our dnvc to send out 1he public quc s11onnaircs.
lbc: Clca:m. Greco and Proud members dist ributed !he qucs1iou11aircs on a door.10-doo1 basis. he smd We.
pnnlai 4..SC.tO. of which 4.000 we re distributed door-to-door. and the remammg 500 we placed in Cny
!-: ill. the: Lihr.u} and at !he ~-falley Center. he said. for anyone who did not gel one delivered to their door
Obviousl}. -l.000 did 1101 co,cr all of 1he houses. in EuglC\\ood, he allO\\e .. but n reprcscnlal1\C group \\.IS
CO'\'crcd. 'A.e dh1ded tl,c Ci1~ up 11110 the four clc:11011 dis1ricts. he s.ai d. and subdivided 1hos.c 11110
subdislnct5.... and u-e then distriou1ed 50U III cacl• or those sue.,;,,.." ;1ri c1s. to get our •Ultlll Of 1h..: -UJUO
card..s.. 1.2 v.cn: rc1urncd b~ 1hc dc:1dlin c 1\1:11 had bcc u sc i. and those \\ere used as the res ult s. he sa id.
allhoug.b there ba,c ac 111all) bl.."'Cn so me ln ~kling mas l:llc as la st 111011111 The resull s sho,,cd lh:11 66% of
the respond...~ were in fav or of lhe concept of mandatol) trash pickup . Based 0 11 11t,11. and 1hc fact that
1he Code Em:foro!mcn l seems to be of major co1,cern i11 1he lasl year or I\\O. he s.ud . we dec ided 10 1110\'C
forward wt:lJ that r.llher 1h.1 11 keep it tied 10 1hc cn 111tac1 hau lin g iss ue. bcc.1usc thal is so mcllung that ,,111
take qwte .11 hJI of cffo n . The re were a lot of qucs11011 s rc1urncd 011 the q11cs1io1111a1rc abou1 1hc lc ga lJI ~ of
ha'1og a scngl c hauler. and \\hc1her that was a 111011opol). he s.aill. so 1hcrc 1s ob, iou sl) some cducauon
in,olu:d 'lll 1b:1L and I here arc a number of 1l1111~s 1ha1 lrn e 10 be done 10 111cc1 Slat e rcgul.111011 s 111 ord er
for the Ct,, to pul 1hat ou t for :i co nlr:icl bu.I. Mr. Roth s;ud lhal. based on 1hc 1d~1 lhal we had a r.uhcr
large DlaJQG'JJ). and 1hc issue ~cmcd lo 0C :i hot I0pl C. \\C tJccidcd to 1110,c forward \\llh II at thi s 11111c .
We rca.l.Ll....'d nghl aw;1y that I here was. go111g 10 be so 111c opposi110 11 . 1hcrc arc peop le \\ho arc ha11dl111~
1l1eir trash tnm,. lcg.1 ll y. \\llho111 pa~ 111 g for lhc ira sh scrncc. Ho,\c,cr. \\C fd11ha1. 1f 1\c m:1dc an~ red
EnJlewood Clly Cuuncll
Juuary 19, 1998
,.,. 8
1 ) I ) hCM•1r.1 I• n ,f
K 'l n.11111 I
:,i1.'1
exceptions dln:ctly. that some of the pmble111 people '"'"Id fa ~ ml~ 111aaiegory Md be •blc 10 esc:tpc 1he
issue. For ir.51ancc, he snld. if we cn::itc,1 nn exemption for 0t1110 . <'l•llml. ~ an, sonic code
enforccmenl pn,blems 1h01 probobl y ore senior chi ,.cns We •'1.f'I'"' • led lbi• fnlm the code cnlbrccmenl
aspect. he said. adding the he and one oru,e other subcornmalla: mcmlom are atting on the Code
enrorccmcnl Advisory Commlncc. Wo lu,vo suppon from that di""1ioa:also . be said . This ls really n
1001 for Code Enforcement Wheo they sec nn na:umulotion ol'uush. ttw:,, don't need 10 w:t11 seven dnys to
see lfthal occurnularion Is S1ill there. he said. but con begin dealing wit!, it oo lbc spot. no1it;ing the
owner or resident 1hn1 they uccd tnuh scrvicc . Th.11 is n::,lly when: we,-l:'lming irorn . he ,,!vised We
will prob.ibly hc.,r shonly from those people who ore handling ii. he said The Dcnve, .-..iCcn : • '·1 ""'
the subject or the c•mnil. ctllcd him , he s.,id, stnling th.it she li ves on the IN>rderlinc-1'\11d' : _, 1i,...,,, :,( i ovi ng
her tmsh dumpster filled with Englc,,ood residents· trnsh Mr Ro<h ~ tlt11 11 , , ; c::;,-,.,, -:imc
fro,n Englewood residents who ~r\'c on !his subcommincc SL,trws c,:daded f'n>m :i-.. m1.~.,.•1gs bee.ma
they wanted everyone to know this did not come from S1otr. but . r:11bcr. mint n,,sjdenu and :,tlbli c Input . he
explained. and stnff' m,:rcly pro,idcd snppon . such :is 1nlly111g 1t;c raaf1:s zxl arranging m .!Ctmg rooms
Council Member Brndshaw rcmmdcd Mr Roth tlcit she h,,d askcdbim aa1he phone how we will kno" if
people have tr.uh scn•icc. We ore 001 going 10 be keeping a ro<ler. ~ to this. she soid Mr Roth
said he supposed 11-,1 is the loophole in it . bnt th i• is for cede~ J'lll'l'OS1'5. so it allows n Code
Enforcement Officer, who secs a collcct !on of' trash. i~ 1:,_!.,,c immediale Xlioo. The)• don 't MVC to w:1it
seven days or tnkc a piciu~ ,md put a tag on it .Ind come b3ck 2 "'C!Ck bft=r10 see if it is still there, Kc c:1n
go right then nnd there and n;. if th<')' know they need trash Slm'icc.
Ms . Bradshaw asked if lhc commincc found that our current ordinances uo1 address 1111s issue Mr
Roth s.,id !hat is corrccl. They s1a1c thtll 1hcy have 10 h,wc 1hc,r u·ash rccnovcd 10 seven da)S and leave 11
nt thnt . and the wny ii is currcnlly written it is , for :111 in1en1s and pul'pmC'S. unenforc:c.iblc . he ndvlscd . 11
is a rn.1jor project 10 cnfortt that ordinnncc . By adding this statement todac ordinance . it allows 1hcm 10
tak e immcdia1c oc1ion on it. rn1hcr th.in go rhrough a w:uriug period FIC'sa.id. he is. quite fr::mk h . sure
the)' don'l do th:11 when it co mes to 1hc w:1ili11g pcnod. th C) ju.,, pn::tty n:mch tgno:'" !:
Ms. Bmdshnw asked how this ordin:mcc will prtvtnt people from dumpt:ng thcrr trash in other people '~
dumpsters . Mr. Roth responded th:u the on ly soluuon 10 th.11 issue rs prcbabf) going to be" lie n you ha, c-
a complete pa ckngc wi1h the contrar1 and nil . where people arc rcqmrcd h.Jvc the SCI"\ ice and they arc
required to pay fo r ii nnd then: arc no c.-..ccp11011s Th.1 1 is :1 whole ~na: issue.. he s.,id. wuh S1a1c
regulnrions IIUII :m,c 10 be mc1 before you c:,n i'lpproach II Going back t0 the cnforcemcnr ·an. Ms
Br.id.shaw asked\\ hy we ca n ·1 just change 1hc wording in !he ong.in:11 on:maocc Mr R01h .,11d 1ha1 1s
b3.S ically whnt \WIS done . The original s.1id 1ha1 C'\'CI) oa:up:int or owner -d' real prop:~· sh.i ll rcm O\ c or
cn usc removal of all accmnul :uions or tmsh from such propc~ We ado!:d -:md ~,II subscnbc: 10 a tra "h
remova l SCl"\'icc with a licensed lrnsh lmulcr." he explained TI1:1t 1s rctll-\ the onl ~ ad dilion "'C made . and
thal gi\'es ii n lillle more immediacy from a code cnfo rccmcn l standpotnr. he S,'lld
Council Membe r Hnbc11ich1 s.1 1d Co u11cil 1111s rccci\•cd a le!l cr and she h:l!f also rccc1ved a coup le of ph oue
cn lls askin g nboul the si,rvcy She asked if lhc survey was rcv1cwtd or dtmc scrtnt1 fic:1II~ and if ii is
stalisti~lly defensible Mr Roth s.1id he 1hinks it probabl y is . nll0\\lng clh.1 1 they did 1101 do n rnndom ,
house by house su n ·c). but . r.uhcr. a random , block b~ block sun~ All :;rans of 1hc c11~ ,\ere CO \ e1l'd. hl
s.1id, so 1hn1 we woul d ge t :-111i1udcs fr o111 all nrc:,s of ll1c cu~. since some .nrct.s art: pri manl, owner
occupied nnd so me arc pnm:mly re111 ers Wr did not diH1 lm1 c 10 nny mudu-f:unll~ d,\ellmgs. he smd .
\\ here th ey ha\'C co 111111ercml SC I"\ 1cc :ilrc.,dy . suc h as ap.,r1 mc111 houses. ~ 1th cbsin buu on of 4.l>tKI th :11 1,.
appro xim:ilely J~~ of all 1hc res idences i11 Eng lewood .,. luch m.::1kcs it mco. men: reliable su11s11cnll).
he opined If we hnd on ly do ne 111% of 111~ lto11scs . \\C •,u glll h,1\C more -=roubl-e defending our resull s
We mighr hnve n plus or 11111111s w•'a on 1l11s b111. he s nd \\tthour dot"t , whole sm11s11ca l ana lys is. he
ca nnot s..iy for s11rc He s.11d he feel s \\C :ire \\11h111 t,\o or 1h rcc perccnr em this
•
•
hllewood City Cooncll
JUMtl')' 19, 1998 , . ..,, ), I, .rl
Ms . Habenicht ukcd if 1hc queslionnain, w,u dcvc:lopcd by lhc 001n1, ; ·,. · mem:ien . Mr. RoU1 said tta1 is
c:onect . Clarifying. M1. Hobcnichl nskcd iflhis wns 11011hc kind of sun .:: 1;,n · {'tn llup would stMd up
and say we have a plus or minus three percent m..irgin of error. She asked :f he had nny iclc.1 wha1 the
margin ofenor mlshl bcon this survey. Mr. Roth "'Id lhcy di11ribu1cd ii lo aboul lOo/.ofthc dliz.ens.
and -.vhen Gallup docs 1hcir polls lhcy arc doins a one percc 111 oflhe populnlion , 1na)1le, and so 1hcy don
lot or stalistical annlysis 10 come •r whh 1hosc figures . Bosa! on 1ho fact 1ha1 1hey had 25 % of 1hc 1,w. who"'" ii "1lS I hot enough issue, 1,100 curds OUI of ~.IXIO is In OXCCSI of 25%, so ohviously WC h!t a
nerve, he asscr.cd. We...,,. cxpcrling onl y •bonl IGO e3rds :,ack. he s:>id.
Ms. Habenicht asked if the people who distribulcd 1he surveys 11ould be willing 10 indicale lhal lh cy di d.
indeed. distri~c lhcm ns Mr. Ro.h described . Mr. R01 '.1 said 1hc subcommittee members di"'idcd 1hc1n up
and he pmon■lly dclivcrcd about 1,000 oflhcm. Mr. Vormiltag delivered nbo111 I.IIIXI of1hcm , and the
c:lher lhrcc or f'our members also dcli\•ercd door 10 door Ms. Habcnichl asked if c.,ch pt "SO n who
t..:livcred decided which house 1l1cy were goi ng 10 deliver 10. Mr . Korb said 1hn1 1s co nect cnch had SOC
cards for a district :md they wou ld hil n rew blocks 1111d tll'.:n move down and hil :i fow blocks so 1hnr 1hcv
M>Uld try to CO\ler all arcns. He snid lie Irie( to leave c;1rds. h.1Ir 111 older houses and hnlf ill newer ho1,s,;..
in each of those areas 10 lry to get n good indic:111011 He rcpcnlcd that 1hcy were quite surprised :11 the
results of the survey . boch the answers and lhc numhcr responding . Usually they send 0111 sun-cys 1hn1 arc
less pointed. he nid. All the residences rcccivCG the Cit y Manngcr's survc)' -:ards and only abo.11 100
came back. while we diSlributcd ~.000 and go1 b;,ck H•1 •. he s:1id . Mr. Roch )aid his co1mniuc:-:·s survey
questions we~ pointed. while the Cil y Mnnngcr'1 were 1101. nnd this obviously hil n nerve .
Ms. Habenicht asked iflh~ questi ons were gl!'lm:d 10,,:ud whether the y prefer changing noth ing . pn:fe r
mandatory or prefer conlract hauling. Sh, •.• id these arc lhe kinds of questions 1h.11 she is ge lling and thal
is why she wants to have lhis on tl1e recr,rd . Mr. Ro1h said the firS1 questi on asked ir they were in favor of
mandatory tr.tsh pickup . although 111111 may nol be Ille acltml wording. Mayor Bums said he lhinks rlmt 1s
in Council's p.'ldct . btll n.-cogni zed th .11 Ms Habcni ch1 \\011ldj 11 s1 like ii .1i rcd pu blicl~ Readin g from the
qucst ionn.1ire. Mr. Roth sm d the li rs 1 quc stio 11 asks ir all rcs1de:111al propert y owners in Englen ood sh ould
be required 10 hm'C weekl y 1rnsh collect ion . yes or no The second (lUCStion . he s.1 id . asks if the
n:spondcn1 wou ld suppon having a single co mpany co llect your re5idcnlinl tra sh. yes or no. and the 1turd
question asks if they would be willing io :lllend :1 publi c he;1ring 10 s1n1e 1he ir opinion. yes or no In
addition . he said. there ,,ere 1hrcc lines kn for co mm cn1 s. and some or I hem used 1he whole suJc of the
ca rd . a round the edges , nnd wh111 1101 . for co 111111e111 s He reminded Cou ncil th.i i lh-cy received n pr1111ou1
earlier. possibl~ last su mme r. which dclnilOO .1II or 1hc co nun e111s An mtern in 1he omc~ of
Ne ighborhood an d Busine ss Development en tered nnd 1ab11 l:1 ted the rcsul1s . hi.: s.11 d
Council Member Garren asked wh:il lh e 111ajor co1iccn1 \\as 111 11 ,c co 1nmen1 section when people s.11d
there should be mandator) 1rash pi ckup . He nskrd 1r ii wa s 1ha 1 there ,,~,s 1rash 111 the allc\s. Mr. Roth
said th.11 the issues were the Ji11cr a11d I ras h from people \\ho do11 ·1 ha,c 11 collec1cd on a ~gu l.tr basi s
We also hc.1rd fro m a number v, ~11 s111::sses . li e said .\\ ho rn mc III in 1hc mor111 11g aud fiud 1hc1r dump ster
fuJI because evc1)'0IIC :,cross the ;1ll cy brougln 1hcir 1rash mer 10 1hc1r d11111p s1cr, rather th:111 h;wi11 g to
haul it off. n1c-n: wns also 1l 1e issue , al1l1 011 gh I here arc 11 ·1 111n n) or 111cm. wh ere trash . ~uch as c01 1chcs
and ch.1i1 '!_ :ir.pc.1rs iu \'ac:1111 lots aroun d lh e ci l). Mos t or II 1s rea ll y :1 code e11 forccmc 111 1s,;ui.: a11d 1ha1 1s
wh.it we were 1~111g 10 address. he s;1id . This is a shon term lix 10 :1 lo ug 1cnn problem. he all mH:d . bur
you h.1vc to s1:1 11 so mewhe re We needed to ge l so 111e1 l11n g gomg. he sni d, becau se 1hc res 1 or 1he p:i ck:-igc
1s likely to b: yc:,;rs before ii is reali zed
Cou ncil Member Hilbc111ch1 sai d :inothcr q11cs1i01 1 she gel s 1s \1 0\\ tl1is will affec t rCC)cling 11 nd individual
rcC)cli ng thar peop le wmll to do . Mr Roth rcspo 11ded 1ha1 this pa ni cul:ir ordin ance h:1s no effect
wh.1tsoevc r on tct;,·cling. Lfc sm d there is :111 01hcr one cor11111g up for lhe haul er licensin g ti· wi ll add ress
1:nJltwood City Cou11cll
January 19, :998
P1ie 10
JlllaCJ,) JI) l11't,ff~i:4n•~
'I C-J ,4.1 1 -,u._t
fl Jf.q
the r<C)'Cling issues directly , Thai is II stnff 11uuOICd INIK and ibis pan of II IS Clc:111 , Green mid Proud .
he ~id.
Im Wc;r, 4870 Souih Cherolca: S11a:1. said he II op_.s 10 b . There arc ,o mnny elderly people who
da.1'\ew I havc 1s111111 s,:cx oftmsh • week. A lol of ,coplc °"'" busiuc:saand """ take Utdn down
U1erc. w!·, slM•:ld they have 10 pay IIYic:c:, he :asked . 'Ihn arc ,o 1w111}' objections to ii, he said. Ul81 he
a"1'1 ev<r. wuuc lhem all, bui, he rcpc,11cd, he objccu .. having 1uanda10,y 1rnsh . He said he U1inks that
U1c t,,y l>'l.5 Code Enforccmenl nnd they hnvc beeo do,,.; tbc:ir job and \\hen they come after prople . 1hcy
usually etc.in ii up or hnvc 10 appc:1r here in court .
SU.nley RJIOdus, 2323 West Hnn·ard Avenue, said be 11111s been a citizen here for abou1 60 years. He asked
if he is lo undcntnnd that ~ou con hnve any cnrrier IJl.11)'0u want. Councd """°"<led affi1111J1tivcly . He
asked who wns going 10 collect U>e trash recs if you poi .II 011 the waler bills. Cou11cil Member Br.idil1aw
responded thnl "~ nrc nol tnlking about ll>al 11 this liae Mr. Rhodu, co,1n1crod 1ha1 they said it was
mandatory , so how do you enforce ii. he :1skcd. Ms. Br.udsh~" smd he 04·ould select he own trnsh hnulcr
and it is cnforc.;cd by complai111. Mr. lthodu~ s;ud tf 1hc Allil)CC10r goes oul 1hcrc and says you have 10 have
~ tmsh hauling "'ulfh. which is rig!II. 1hc11 IW>\v do yoo ~I) know thal be bas one or will cw!r gel one .
Ms. Bradshaw snid she docs 1101 know . Ma)or Bums-sand Mr . Roth hnd satd 1bcrc is 1101 a 11i.111dator)
enforcement :>~ iu place. but ii would be C$5Cut i."lH) caforccd by Code EaJorcc111c111 :,ursu.int 10 a
complaint. House by house cnron:cment is not incl add IUI llus ordinnncc. 10 other words 1hc police arc
not going to march up and dowa the ilrCC'l 10 make w..~O'Cl)onc hA.s a trash hnuling ananP,e111cr.i with a
trash hauler. he cxplnincd . Mr. Rhod11s :tskcd if ii wouii:I 1101 be jusi as sh:i plc to climinmc: the enforcers
h.1ving town.it SC\'Cn dnys, then )'OU v,,oulJ11 '1 have to p t hrough all this. Ms. Brndsh:tw said that 1s
a.n011.Jer option. and that is why we arc having t~us pubfucJw:mug. to hear ideas from 1he people Mr .
RJ1odus said t..hcre nrc a )Qt or clacrly people \\t,o dou ·1 !have U1 c moue~ !"or llus. We Ila\!.! the curb and
gutter stuff already. he snit\. and IIO\\ you jus1 keep pu ma1g 1no~ on and on. Som'l or these people don ·1
have that kind or monev ,.o s.11d .
M.1yor Bums said that one thmg in the memo 1.s 1ha1 1r.Mi:h haulers gcncrall)' orrcr senior mtes. You can
pii:k you own hauler ,1nd. if ye41 nrc a senior. )Ou are fr.:c lo e ngage 011I~ someone wl10 will give you a
special race, so 1hn1 might be of help .
Council Member Waggoner said some or1hc trash ~!11..t:n already olTer ~•n C\'Cf)' other wrck service. or a
fewer bags rate. Ms . Bmdshaw agreed th.11 11\C) offer a ft:>wcr rate for fewer b..1gs.
Mr . Rhodns said ir it is put 011 1hc resid cnl s. he docsn ·, s:c ho " they arc go ing 10 do it Ms . Bradsh:n~
said we will only lind out ir they h:lvc that mnn d.1101~ tr.w.h p,d.up 1r th e Code Enror cc111c111 Oniccr get s
involved . and lh:11 would be by complaint onl) Mr Rh..xius as ked ,r 11 \\1II be put 011 the ta .xcs or
an~1l11ng . Ms . Bradshaw s.11d 11 will 1101.
Council Member Nabhol:! :iskcd ir he c11rre1111~ ha s a Lra.~1 scn•1cc Mr Rhodus said he docs . Ms .
Rradsh aw said 1he1111 would be lhe s;1111e . Ms ~:1 bhol.1. •ud the on l~ \\ii) tlus \\Ill bl.! cnac1 cd 1s b)
complnin1 ir it s1:1r1s pili11g up .
Hope Scarles . 2875 South Sherman S1rcc 1. s;ud she b.is 'Cd at 1l11s loc.111on fo r :1lxnil 50 ye.us She s.11d
she has always douc cvc01hi11g the Cit) h:is req uired :lbt:1u1 mdc111a11011 or 1hc1r \\as1e 111n11er ;111d all thm
There have been :ibout two neighbors. she said. th.11 she. ;.ts clc:mcd up aft er . hc~d r. but sh e is gc t1111 g :1
linlc old to keep doing that. She s.1 1d she uudcrstauds Wl! proble m and some pcop l!.! w1ll 1101 confo n n to
mies. so If)' c11101h er so l111i o11 ;111d I hen enforce II fa cr:ouc .shou ld be res pons ible 10 h;l\C tra sh pickup
each week, bul wilho111 JUSI one choice. she s.1 1d Wllbr..l.11 com pc1111011 . 1hc pi ckup compames would 1101
g1\e us good SC f\'u..:c , she s;1id Wc dclin11 cl} do no t \\J'.1 1 to be fo rce d 10 11101.c tra sh rrom our prcsc m ,Ille~
•
•
•
11:al[llowood Chy Couocil
J-ry 19, 1998
Paat II
pickup up to the stn:ct. she said . The honu..; without alleys, that is okay. bnt let us use the alleys if we
hove them . The people 1h11 will not houor this tmsh =ovnl program should be fined heavily :u,d pu1 on
a communiry projccl of going out nl ouly hour, 011 the tmsh tntcks to pick up the trash, she ...,,ed. or
some Olber heavy work until they lcnm th.it most or the c,llzcms of Englewood wnnt the alleys lcepr clean
and ,~ rhe Ciry lo enforce it.
Jeanne McWilliams. 319, South Grant Srrcct. s.:1id 1he has u licensed c.1rrirr ;-,,,d would nol change it
bcc:11ue it is the cnsy wny to do things . The other p;trt of ii. however. is thut ii is just one more thing we
don ·r nc,d, it is one more law thnt there is already stuff on the books to hnndle We lswe code
enforcement in plnct :ind . if there is a violation out there , 1:u:y have seven day, to clean it up .' Ms.
McWilliams said she fails to see how ha1ing someone J,,-,. weekly trash pickup is going to help that
11u111er. She IISkcd if people 11-cre required to pnt their nnme on the '"""J'S. Mr. Roth responded that ii
wasn't required. but most of them do have names and nddrcsscs. Ms. McWilliantS said ifit wasn 't
required. then one person could fill ou1 a number of cnrds :rnd skew the results . Sh-: said lhc cards were
highly available and she picltcd so111, 11~ at tl•c Libr.11)' for herself nnd for relatives. Additionall)'. a lei of
the trash that she secs in lhe :tl lcys. trash pickup would 1101 l.:~ndlc. such n~ I ires :md old furniture . She
sai d ner neighbor d~111hc street had a toilet in her front yn rd :or a number of weeks . and manda1ory
trash pickup is not going to t:ikc c:trc of 1h:it . Sl1c suggcs 1ro . i11s1c.1d of adding one more layer of
bul'C3ocracy , one more l:nv 1h.1t obviously is not enforceable . thal the Code Enforcement Officers need :1
tittle more trnini:ig. lns1c:1d of worryi11g :1bou1 sl1ort weeds nnd lhin gs lik e thnt . they cou ld worry about
these people 1h :11 ha\'e so much nccunml:ucd lrnsh that it hns become A burden 10 I heir neighbors. Also.
the lady in Otm,:r, that h.is people dumpin~ their tr.ish. could check the lrnsh for addresses and lhcn
proceed 10 go ancr them leg.illy . She said she lmd someone tc.,vc a bng of trnsh in her cr.n and s•,c
checked the nddrcss so that irit lmppcncd more lluin once lhcy could co111:,r.11hc :rnt horities . Thal !son~
wny 10 solve hat. she Si'lid. rather th:111 rn:iking C\'cryonc hire n lr.tsh person when 1hey don 't nc-:d ii
There arc a lot of people who recycle enough, !hill !hey do11 ·1 ha,c enough tra sh fo r a \\eckl~ .u ck up She
repeated tJiat ii is not ncccss.,ry :u 1his lime \\Oen you .ii read) h:1\e l;m s on the boo ks 1h:11 cr,,er 1he
sillL'.ltion . 3..-,d when a lot of lhc stuff would not be picked up by !he lrn sh co ll cc 1ors :,n~,,,,-,.
R.iymond Meinecke. 4,10 South Huron Street. s.1i d l,e h:is had alley pickup for 1hc 25 ,c:irs 1h:11 he h.1 s
lived there . He snid he set the cans ba ck so th 1:y wo·1ld not be si uin g 0111 in 1hc :illcy He sa id he
cominucs to think 1hcy should li.:1,c :,IIC)' jlickup a1:d h.1ve thei r own lrash l1 :1u lcrs if th ~ wa111 10 He sai d
he doesn 't think they should be forced. as En glewood w,1111 -: to. to have one tra sh hauler mall of
Englcw'OOd. M:i)or Bums sa id 1ha1 is not what I his prop<isc ~. 1h.11 he crm have hi s 0\\11 pi ck up Mr
Meinecke said he kuows that he h,1 s sai d th;ll 110w. but he 111 1 krc;;lood Iha! 11 was supposed to be
mandatory for one hauler . Ma)or Burns s.1id no. ii is 1101. Mr Me in ec ke s;11d he \\illllS 10 con t111u e 10
have 3Jlcy pickup . Mayor Bums s:1id hr. c:\11 ha,·c 1ha1.
Jerry St3nkorb. 491 3 Chenango Circle . s.iid he is in f.i,·or of !his ordin:,ucc . all hough he does no! feel II is
d,e answer 10 all 1he problem s III Englewood . We need 10 do e\'C l)'lhin ~ we can IO help Code Enforcement
de.ii \\ith 1hos: people who c;111sc umjor problems . He opined that it is th e responsibili ty of all propcny
owners in Englewood 10 ha\'c 1hcir1rash properly rcmo\'ed H~ s.1id ir1h1 s will help Code Enforcemenl
dent with those who don'i. then hr suppon s ii
Raymond Hok:1.n son. 4111 South Lincoln S1rc-c1. s.i id he is in tolal ;1grcc 111en1 w11h the Clc;in . Gre en and
Proud Comm ission . He s.1id he h;i s ;111 :i ll ey 1ha1 he drives up frcqucntl~· \\here lu s 111011\cr 11'·cs and ht:
sometimes wonders if he is driving down !rash :1ll ey . He s.1id tha1 1he m:ijorit)' of the people who li\'e on
thal alley h.1\ c weekly trnsh pi ck up by a licensed c:irric r. but ii docs not so lve :1n}1hing . Pan of the
problem is 1h;11 so me of1hem arc 1101 fol/om ng 1hc mi es concc rmn g !h e sc tb:1ck for 1he1r lr:i sh co n1a111 crs.
so cars come by :ind k11ock the m 0111i111 0 1he :illc~ He s.1 id he 1s forc ,·cr havm g 10 dod ge tra sh 10 1ry 10
drive th,1 1 alley :,n1 he is ;1 li nlc co ncern ed aboul h:1,·111g more bws just to co me 10 :i bc lf cr co nclu s;on .
tnilcw<M1d City Cwndl J••••ry 19, 1998
P•~ll
l,,1auo J 111) htMlff';>I u
f t• rU,l/lfJil .,
whca rcally ii isjull Ibo --caclulioo .~ have oow, ~ said I~ nn; ionic aood llow• aJn,ady in
clfCCI, Ibey jlKI a.1 IO be ......iod and Ufklall:d 10 giYD Code Emon:cuicnl Ilic liclp lhcy need . We
should !JUUi ou1 i.: loopholcs-IIOI add a1101hcr la)'er of rules 1h11 say, we hnyc 10 do ii Uu, wny .
Referring 10 a previous~ ·aboul not being so cona:mcd aboul lhc weeds in Uic vacanl lols. Mr.
Hokanson said we should be ,.:oau::cmcd wilh 1hc appco1rnm:t:: or our Cit y. and ir someone docs 1101 keep
lheir prq,eny mowod. all IIM.y ,.GM: 10 do is go in and ci 1c 1hcm. wilh no wo jlins period . Why ca11 ·1 we do
lhal wilh Ir.uh, he aw,d. TIie .,.1 is lhc main lh i~g. not how we gel tl1ere . 0011 ·110II people how to gel
1hcn:. he said. jU51 1ell tbc,n.., Ii.ave 10 keep Uicir lrub conlaincd and co11stau1l y pi ckC<I up . Give U1 e
loopholes 10 lhc people wbo iac iancwotivc ll'ays of laking car< oCtheir 1111.1h, he sa id. He reforrcd 10 •
lcllcr in 1hc Eng)cwood Hcralcldlllsaid a man picked up ltis elderly mo1her 's lrnsh a couple of times a
week and pul ii with bis 11:1511.. Wll}' make 1h01 person pay for 1111.1b pickup , he asked . If people con be
innovative io a Cm: IOCicly. lO,..., money alld gOl lhc sa,11e job dooc. we should applaud U1c111. be
mainlaincd. mlhcr 1han pcnali;zecllcm financially . He said be is R1rc lhe rules of 1be Ci1y already lake
care o! dumpsters in apan-a,mplc.=. and he c.,prcsscd hope lll:11 Ibis would not sa y I hat every
resident who li\·CS in an~ nccd.s 10 ha ve wcckl) 1rash pi ck up , wh en the .1~1nmc111 co mplc .x
owners already have dumpsicn b 1bci1L He cxplamcd that nc li\-cs 011 1hc border between comnlCrci i'I
and residential property . Tbc ~c who own the buddmg in whic h he li\'cs h,1 vc a dumpSJcr nc:-.t door.
in whicl~ as a panoCthc remallac,cemcnt . he is su pposed 10 pul lus 1rash. He s.1i d he has a funn y feelin g
thal suddcnJy, if he is a rcsidc:mc: and 11&31 is a bu si ness. 1l1~· will be s:1ying 111:11 ii is illc ~1l for him to put
hi!i trash in there. The wbcAei.lllmil needs: 10 be sayi ng \\h,1 t rcsuh we wa nt . :rn d 1nkr out so me of the
1enninology that n,.akcs it bard, -Code Enforcement 10 do thcu job. We arc not tell ing peo ple that their
lawn has lo be kept 1JIO"'Cd ad DIC only way we can make sure Iha! you keep them mowed 1s IJ~n
everyone is required so conuxL GIil lo a la\\n 1uoui ug comp.1ny. We don ·1 do that because it is strictly
results oriented. he said. aad aot method oricnlcd . which is \\here we arc headed . and tha t is not
appropriate .
Donna Johnson . 3 1.is South Cbcrokcc Su-cc1. said she fa vors the ordina nce. as uould so me of the people
who an: ag.1 i11S1 it , iftl~· C\"C r 'Cd in 1h-:. ,ici nit) ofa ncighbornho docs 1101 h:we ;i trash serv ice and
h.1d to put up \\1lh the 11c-ncb a= the Jiule criuers that nm around 11. She sa id she ha s nouccd 1ha1 the
ind epcnde11t trash scn'lCCS .a n: 1now pull ing S1 1d crs bcl un d people ·s propert y indica ting whi ch 1msh
service 1hcy o"n. She said shc:~1ll p.11luzcs with the el dcrl). bul al so feels 1h.u there art se nior ci 11zc 11
discount rmcs and. if 1hq CQJ.ldi .au pi1cl1 1oge1hcr. 11 wo uld be so1:1c1hing tha1 co uld rea l I> cl e;m tl1c city
up. Ms . Johnson .said lh3L ac:Jr. "'he re she li\'CS, the :1 ll cy is lrMh)' and she repe ated 1ha1 she 1s definit ely
in fa vor of the ordinance ..
Dean Huffaker. 3369 South Gamt Street s.1id he It.is sc rYcd on the Clean. Greeu and Proud Commi ssio n
since No\'cmb:r of 1996 He m,ovcd. 1111 0 !u s c11 rrc 111 res id ence . "hic h he re nt s. abo111 s1.-..: momhs prio r to
that, he said. ail.) was to&d that. ~.,.,,sc men t had been foll of g.1rbagc und so111 eo11 e had 10 be co ntrnc1 cd to
haul lha l an-a). He wd he hcl:rd fro m l11s 11c1ghbo rs 1lc11 the yard ;111d allc ) had bcc11 1hc sam e \\a). He
sa id he has been cle;uwig tlus propcny for three years . anJ laughs when a nei ghbor co ngratul :lles him and
says he would not bchnc the '\\:ll') th e pro pc n) looked befo re he got th ere. but he 1s ah\:l)S k111d of
embarrJsscd h> 11 also The rcsu:lc.ncc d1:igo11all> across th e all c:-fro111 him did not hm c a hau ler. he s:ud.
and there we re. at one pouu . .U J g::i rbagc ba ~ of tr.1sh 1h;11 \\Crt s1 11111g I here fo r q1111 e a \du lc Th ere \\aS
an e, re popubuon of fen.I ems In 111g :1111011g the garb.1ge. he s.,1d. Code Enforce me nt wa s 1101 abl e 10
h.1 ndlc 1he problem and the an~ 1Ju 11g tha t did handle ii was 1he owner kick111g 1he111 oul. The peopl e
who own Lhc :ip.1 nmca1 DCXl to them has sulCe bought the house and is re mode l mg it. The rc.1so11 he
bou gh1 the house was to mak.esu.re he \\Ou ld ha\'C so me co111rol ove r who li ved I here and how lh ey kept
their r ;epc rty. In other words.. J.c s.1 1d. we ha,·e com e a long wa) 111 1his one liul e spo t in I his all e) and
we dia not do ii th rough Code !Snforccmcn t. He docs 1101 bc lic\e 1ha t re\\Ordin g lh c ord 111a 11cc th e) 11..1,e
wo rked on 1s addmg anot her !:r er of burca ucrJC). and 11 1s a resu lt ori enled ntt cmpl 10 Ii, 11 11s pro blcrn 11
1s 1101 addi11 g another l:m . 1115 11111c11d111g :1 c11rrc111 l:m . :111d 1r 11 docs 11 ·1 \\O rk. \\C \\1ll 1r:, so 111eth111 g else . •
EnaJewood Clly Cnuncll
January 19, :1998
Paae 13
be ~d. "1fr. Hulfnkcr said one of lti:; neighbors is a 90 yen, old woman who does no1 pnxb<z a lot of
garbap and he expressed sympaJhy for !he sonior citizens who do not. He invited thole wllo ~ve a .
,newµ of getµng rid of their garb.1ge 10 breal\ this law, bccauso 01e only thing that is l')iag io get u,c!li,'"
into trouble is if they let ga,bage accumulnte in their yard . We lu1ve speeding laws. be said. that he would
swear that nobody follows . He snid hew" driving down Broadway today , and he tried to follow ii as
closoly as possible, bul in order 10 drive safely he rarely goes the speed limit. An) type orbw is going 10
invite people lo break ii, but w" have mcnns or dcnling wilh people wl10 break lhe law "tea :it h<a>mcs a
real problem . As far as he is cr,nccmed, thoso who brcnk lrallic laws arc a bigger danger tu ,us lhao lhoso
of us encouraging our ncighbv1 :1 to tltrow away 1hcir gnrb:1gc . ln other words. he s;i id. 'he supports l!Js
ordinance, and agrees that it is not tJ1c cure all , but we sl1ould try 10 work with i~ or Wt' .,,.ill try sc,ui:tlung
elso.
Stan Lange, 3535 South Clarkson Street, snid he is a member of the Clcnn, Green and Pnud Commission
and w-,15 pan of O,c group lhnl walked the survey cards around nod distributed them . He ,;ud he is not
here to tell Council 1hnt he is a statistical c:~pc:il . although he docs know something about 5Dtistics. He
said he feels very strongly 1hu1. if you took our survey results ''> stat istical C.l(pcrts. they wod4 verify the
fact Lhat this is a represcnta1h·: sample m11ing 1h.11 it is whnt the majority of tlic citi zens would desire .
Mr. Lange said thal tl•.c members of the subcommiucc have done a fine job of trying to wocl this cb.1.nge
in the ordinance so 1hut it is jusl gi ving another tool ro the Code Enforcc •ncnt people who luvc been
trying their best 10 solve this problem .
Linda Han. 435i s~uth Pcnnsylvnnia S1rcc1 , ad vised she was one of the people who fiJlcd ou1 the Cl.rd and
scm it back and she appreciated being asked her opinion . Jur al the moment. she said. she felt a little bit
betrayed about the survey pan . because . what is goi1:g on herL i;. 1101 what s he 1hough1 she •21 getting
information on . At the lime she thought maybe the Ci1y was coo!.1".icring having the C"~ llandle piclcup
and putting in their own scr,,.icc as Denver docs . Den ver. she not ed. docs their own. ~rs.. Hart ~,ined that
the questions on the card were a little bit vague. so she pul on the ·-1rd she would like IDD'it i nformation .
She said she thought she put her phone munbcr down. but she kn o" s she pu1 her name ·md :addn:ss down .
No one lu:s ever contac1ed her again. until she found out about tlic meeting She said f #tc .:anted 10 com e
down and sec whal was going on and offer some suggestions . Sh e referred Council 10 the oo py of the
ordinance she rccci\'Cd tonight. page 3. scc1io11 15-2-J : Placcmc111 and remo val of trasli . SCOJon A -An y
accumulation of trash on any premise s. improv ed or unimpro\"cd. ni thin lhc City of Eogl~IOOd 1s
prohibited and is.declared 10 be a nuisan ce. Ms Han stated 1hm makes sense and 1h31 5'.........,c:]d be in there .
She said she doesn't know wha1 was in I here before . becau se she h:is n '1 seen 1he ord.i nano !.. C.'-CC'p l fo i this
scc1ion . On section B. she said . she aisagrees with hn\'ing 10 subsc ribe to a trash R.."1\0\-:i.l si:::rvi cc . Ms .
Hart advised that she personally works for som eone. a business in Li1tlcton. and he dc cs aIDCJ'\,· her to Llkc
her one bag of trash a week down to his big dumpster and pur it in . That is part of then ~mcnt. she
said. because she doesn 't make very mu ch mon ey :u,d all of her money goes i1110 im pronn:g her house and
keeping her house payment up . So . she sa id. she apprec iates th :u as sh e docsn ·1 wam 10 ha:\-e to p.1y 1ha1
extra money every month . Ms . Hart s1,11cd she doe sn't understand Code Enfo rcement,.~ SC\e n days
to contact the owner . Before she 1110\'Cd into Engle"ood and bought a house. she ....-.,as ln--w;& rn L1t1 lc1 011.
She s.1id !he house in Li11Jc1011 wns \'Cf)' close on 1h.' all ey and the house she lives in 00\\ i.s vc~ close on
tl1c alley, so she is very famili;ir wilh the alleys . W:1cn she li \'cd in Lutleton . she noted. thi!.:rc \\as
someon e down th e alley leaving th eir 1ra.:h. b.1gs upou bags upo 11 bags oflmsh. pil ed tup ;E1d at>:>ut si.\'. to
eight deep . It was I here for two weeks. she said . befo re she fina ll) c.1iicd th e Cil } and romplamcc' abo ut
11. She pointed out 1hat they had ii cleaned up ,,11l11n 2-4 hours and there \\.lS ne\Cf a r;:robOew \\tlh 1h.1 l
person aga in. that person kept 1hcir tmsh pi cked up afl er 1h.11. She s.ud she apprcc 1a1cd th.m and she
doesn't understand wh y Code Enforccmem should wa11 SC\'Cll da:s If lh e: h;wc a problcn:.... tl1en ad dress
it. Either gi ve 1he people a warning or gel th e prob lem situa1i on take n ca re of. don ·t w:....L 5hc noted she
found out things she didn't know ton ight. Qu e bc mg lhat tra sh is not 10 be w11hin lh c fo::tof thc alley
area. witJ1in fh·e feet of your propcn y liu e. She asked 1fthal ,,as co rr ect Sh e not ed 1bt: oc-d1r1.ance s.1ys
....,.._ChyCooocll
J--,, .,. 1998 .... lbt1J 1,01 11 11~
v,1 1 ·1 • ... ,1.1.
(_I J'f
yo,r'"lllall '"'trash con1ainc;rs bock al lcasi nvc _rcct rrom 1he side propcrtv hncs .~ 'She nskd \r1hat t ... •·
r:-ll!bc alley line. Council ndvfscd ii was rrom 1hclslde propcny lines . Ms. Hnrt said Iha! she 11t11de 1 list al.........,.. i~ li'1cning to what WM going OJI toma(/L bccil111t she figures It slle was going 10 complain
she~ io make suggestions ond try and help. SIIC slated She would like to ... n more posili\'e
~ io !be problem ond try 10 act a linle _ ~ii o( pride in !he alleys . ~he said there was ano1htrthl,,1
.... fillad out toniahl , lhat m,1ybc Isn't In lhe bn1innnce but should be . She lmt always set her truh out In
lier tall, cu,s in the alley, in tliai area. w11en slie ,rlakcs it and C\'erybody else along the nlley docs also .
Ms. Ebrt mggesled maybe that trash shouldn '1 be out uulil 24 hours before the tmsh is to DC picked up or
the aicltt before lhe tmsh is pic~ed up. Everyone docs tliat , she said. and the alley docs look bu~ bctausc
of thol. Council Member Bradshaw conunented 111111 she lives In a neighborl1ood wh ore there isn ·1 an
alley aad she thought that was what that pro\'i sio 11 was for. Ms . Han asked why the)' coul d11 '1 have th.it
on I.be alleys also. 11011 the trash cans are not lo be oul there until the day or the trash pick up or the da)
bdoro:. She opined that would keep the alleys lookiuli belier and lhev could keep them within their Ccncc
or widin their property tin< and it "''uld improve the look 0[11\e alley . She said she would hke Ill sec
thal .., lh<r ""'" alley . One or >he other things lllat was lnlkcd about before wns the odd it ems She stated
thal Oil< 'l>ousc she bought was a bank repo . it had been empty for a year. l1 had been trashed . it 11~s a
mca. a,dis;asta clc.1ning up that house. She ndviscd 1h.1t she hnd a lot or tras h to throw oUt 1h:u lhc trash
compmiics "lJUld not pick up She s.,id she h:1 d broken rumiturc. buildings she had to tear do\\1 1 10 clea n
up tbc back yard. and a pigeon coo p 10 rcmo\'c . It wns :'I dis.1ster. she s.i id , and lhe problem she had with
au aftlmt. wu getting it out or lhc area . Friends helped . she noted. nnd she hnulcd it :1 linlc bi1 :11 a 1imc,
She stmcd. she would like to sec. sc:mcrcd lhroughout the years and more so in lhe spri ng and the fa ll. a
rime wk:n the)• could t:tltc the 1rnsh dmm 10 the dumpster ror $1 . Otherwise , she s.1id . it would C'OS1 her
around! $45 to take down a tr.tiler l0.1d or thi s brdken wood nnd everything . Because, sl 1e noted. trnsh
com~ "ill not pick it up. Ms. Hart commented th.it she has an cldcrl>• neighbor !hat h:u some 1ircs a
rclatneilcft with her, the trnsh comp.111ics won't pick 1hcll1 up nnd she c,111·1 afford 10 lnkc lhcm down and
get rid of fiicm. TIiey arc enclosed in her propcn y so nobody secs 1he111 . b111 ii bothers he r. So . she
suggs::s:m. the City could offer something like that :ind have more 1r.1sh d:tys where you cn n throw 0111 the
~ Oungs like thal and keep it clc.111cd up Sl1e opined 1ha1 qu icke r enforcement of the existing laws
and sm::nctbening of the c.xi sting laws would don lot 10 help lh~ Ci1 y. r.uher 1ha11 goin g into n mandntory
trash ~-She s.1id she docsn ·, thiu k thn1 is going 10 rc so l\'e th e problems and if there is 1101 :1
problct11..Jou do n't know and if th ere is n problem you'\'e got the l:nvs 011 lhc books . or should stre ngthen
the laws 'that arc alrc.idy on the books so th:11 you c;m go in and resolve the problem . Not put in
m.1.Ddaray for everyone She cm ph.1sizeC 1hey nre maki ng C\'eryone pay for :1 rcw peo ple 's probl ems
AnnaMairic-Krarzcr. 11 50 West St,J '"rd )rhe. s.1id ii occurred to her 1ha1 when yo u propose a
rnandat.cJl:l service. payment b:, all rcs1d 1.. 1h;-i1 ii 111igh1 be more nppropri:u c lo pul 1h:11 on lhe ballot fo r
a \'O(C al all the people . rm her 1h:111 a sc lcc 11 ve sur'\ey :i nd a11:1l~si s Secondl y. she sugges1ed . sin ce \\e do
ha\'C th&:-a"Cglllalions and 1:-iws to cover th ese problems and v1ofa1Jons. thnt we find a w;-iy to enforce 1hc111 .
rather tmBD CTC:llC so me IIC\\ laws .
fj
Bilt CL-111.on. 938 E:isl Camell Avenu e. s1:11 cd he has lived in En glc\,ood mos 1 or his llfo . 1h 11 he is a
rcsidcnr_ tt.'l'3ycr :111d an Englc,,ood landl ord . He ad, ise d 111:11 hi s f;1mily owns eig l11 res idential
properti es in EngJewood. so he obscr'\ cs 1111111ero11s loc.11io11s, nll eys nnd nei ghbo rh oods, pc rhap ~ 011 a more
regular b.usts th:ln 111a11y cill zcns do He 111:1i111ai11ed 1h:1t the Clc:111 . Gree n .111d Proud Co1111111ssm11 ~ho uld
be commended for tncl...l1 11g tlu s 101 1gh issue Thi s h;i s11·1 been goi 11 g on just si nce 1961. he s.1id He
ad\1scd t!imt Geo rge Allen . \\he n he \\':IS Mayor , lried lo ge l 111a11da10ry I ra sh coll ect 1011 A o;olu1101110
tlus. be :s:::atcd.. !us nllud ed Euglc"ood for n long lime He opmcd 1hat lh c issue isn't 1r.1 sh. th at the issue
1s the app::ar:ux:c or the neighbo rh oods an d th e p:m tra sh pla)S iu 1h.11. Ob\'i ous ly. he 1101ed. tra sh and
dcbns rc:ll"_'!IJU J problem . dump111g in bu sil1 ess d11111ps1ers . dum ping III park d11111p s1ers and dumpin g in
Dem er He s:u d he has people\\ 110 d11111p 011 l11s proµcr11cs. bcc:11 1se 1hc~ don't W:\111 10 pa~ ro r n tra sh
h.1uler Hr ~s for a I rash h;ualc r. he noted . 011 C\e l') properly he 0\\11 S Code enforce mcn 1. he opi11cd . •
•
En11lcw<M>d tlly Cmoncll
January 19, 1998
P•~• 15
II lN l '{h ) hunff')l!11d'
M~1 I l• I 111 11111.t
,, 11;11
rcmnina · problc~q Ill.al !his is no
1
t likely 10 solve . He commclllCdi llliw you have hear~ ,iw:, anccdo1cs. tJ1c
two weeks oftrnsh b?gs nnd I~ 1hongl\l people could come in 1elll,.... anecdote after 3llCC l01c of our
e1,nt:nui s,g iMdequn1c code enforccmcnl. He fell this ordi1l.ir10: -• &ood firil step. Mt. Clay,bn
cmpiU1Sizcd 1hnt he hoped Council WilS serious nbou1 the issue. ac11 !lbc iisuc or trash collection , but tl1c
Issue of the appearnncc and tho pan trash plays in tlmt . Becouse.. Die mam1aincd. 11'1• drorce.1btc' lie
opined the City should develop n data hose of rcsidcnlinl addra5C5,and work wilh the trash h.oulcrs 10
ensure tl1at every single rcsi( .. nlinl propcny h.os a subscriptioo. Sb. mic rdlcraled, he thinks it is
enforceable and will go a long way toward solving the problcon. 1k person lhnt !ms trash hauled is 1101
going 10 haul ii :1110 Denver and dump it. lhcy arc not going lo bawl h lo lhc parl< nnd dump 11, or haul it
lo his propco •) ,. d dump ii. Mr. Clay,011 staled he fcols they :lrC png 10 have lo worlc with the f;_.h
haulers and cllSIJIC tbal the hnuJcrs picked C\'C:1')1hing up and not.Sil)!. for instance. 1h.11 they won 't taken
stack of tires . Perhnps, he suggested, there should be an ex1rn fee: f:,r those: tires, bul ifil is trash ii should
be hauled . He said he !ms found 1ha1. for instance, WaSle ~=l "i,cn he h.os a rental propcny
where someone has ab.1ndoncd half of New Jc1'SC)', Y.ill pick it up l:ir an c.~ra rec. He 001cd there arc still
i1c111s tl1ey don '1 \1~111 to pick up , so the SlulT silS 1hcre in 1ltc alley :Mr. CbY,on Slated lhnt wc need 10
1TWie sure that everything can gel hauled. Lhat we need to c11SWC t!1Wl the h.,1ulcrs offer reduced vo lume rec
schedule or th.11 they allow people 10 share hauling. He poi rued owt fhal that is Slill a subscription. ir you
make a deal wilh fouc rcsidcnls to haul from one location . 1ha1 sullltakcs cut or the problem :md senior
mies m.,y be an option . But the sohllion . he s1mcd. should nOl be mo pa d.up as an al1cm.11ivc for a senior
who IL'\S n problem . He suggcs1cd we sec if we can get 1hc h.a u!cr.s, 1\.0 work with thm and develop n rec
schedule . In summary, he said. he would suggest Council p.1.SS this. and conunue 10 \\Ork on the issue and
hopefully solve this problem thal has been pl aguing 11s for years.
Jeanne McWillinms, 3795 South Gmnt S1rcct. said she was th.i nk.mg as she wa s si tting and lis1cning. 1h111
as the genllcman thnt said he IL1d 10 dodge the trash in 1hc alleys. mt if you pu1 trash in 1he can on
Monday it could be something tribe dumped b) the 11111e the lrash ~ picked up . But. she noted . an awrul
lot of the problems she secs in her alley is dogs th.11 arc allowcJ to run loose and they knock the c.1ns over .
lftJ1erc arc any kind or table scraps wh.11soc\Cr in 1hcrc. 1J1osc dogs urc knock ing ii O\'er. even for the
people 1hat have mandatory trash pickup Mos1 people in her alley. :have 1heir 1ras h picked up. bu! by th e
time ii is oul there over 1he week . Maybe . she sugges1cd . if they ~uired. the owners of the dogs to be a
little more responsible and. perhaps. rc.·quiring the cans to be sccure:d in some way unlil tllc day or trash
pickup . Ms. McWilli:uus said thm she wanted to finu l •. di.sag.rec 1.¥•u.b the gentleman that wanted people
to haul their cans out every week :ind lo bring them b.1ck inlo lhc ~,ml She advised 1hat for them that
would be impossible, it jusl would11'1 work . ft is 100 muc h \\Ork ri:m cider!~ people 10 be dragging 1hcsc
cans in and out. she said. ;.11d so that idcz1 she red!~ w:.1111 cd 10 \>l!!ll. Bui. she said . 1he dogs \\e re the 011c
thing 1hat s1ruck her. that ii would prob;:biy be :1 good id ea to sccua 1hc cans and 1hen 10 make 1hc dog
0\\1leB more responsible .
There were no runhe r questions and no one else was prc.scm 10 spc:uk to the issue .
COUNCIL MEMBER WAGGONER MOVED. AND I T \V AS SECONDED, TO CLOSE THE
PUBLIC HEARING TO GATHER CITIZEN INPUT ON A.'i '-ME:-iDMENT TO THE
MUNICIPAL CODE RELATIVE TO TRASH COLLECTIO'-
Aycs : Coun ci l Members Nabh ol,:. G:u,rtL Br.1dshaH . tl.i bc111c h1.
Wa ggo ner. Clapp . Burn s
Na)S : No11c
Motion carried and 1i1c public hcann g closed
Ma)or Burns ad,·1scd that ii has been Co1111cirs hab it and proct:Ss fbr some tune . that tile) do not vote 0 11
the ordinance on the sa me 111gh11hcy h;u e the public he:mng. Hi.:. ::xpl.arncd the) c:1rl) the ordman cc
laatow...i Clly Council
Juu ■ry It, 1!1911
11lltl1 I ,Oj) ~f\'IJM(!,lfl -{
ll(IJ, l (1t.UIU.l
Pa!!' 1' >r ◄1
illelf over 10 tJ~ nc.1<1 mccdng. vhcn Council can discuss it n1nhcr and vote ou ii at 1hat time . He 1hahkcd
everyone ror comlna '1ouiah1 10 spcnk on 1hc issue . He ooknowlcdgcd II Is on lmponn,il issu~.
10. C-•• Atl"nda
(1) Approval ofOrdinol1CC$ on Firsl Rc.iding
COUNCIL I\IEMBER WAGGONER MOVED, AND IT WAS SECONDED, TO APPROVE
CONSENT AGENDA ITEM to (a) (i) ON FIRST READING.
(i) COUNCIL BILL NO. 2 , INTRODUCED BY COL'NCIL MEMBER
WAGGONER
A Bll.L FOR AN ORDINANCE AUTHORIZING AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT
ENTITI.ED "GRANT OF CITY DITCH RIGHT-OF-WAY" BETWEEN THE ENGLEWOOD HOUSING
AUTHORITY AND THE CITY OF ENGLEWOOD FOR THE PROPERTY KNOWN AS 3400 SOUTH
SHERMAN .
VoltraullS:
Ayes :
Nays :
Absmin :
Motion carried .
Council Members NabholL. G:1rrctt. Br.idsh;m•. Hnbcnicht. Waggoner.
Clapp
None
Mayor Burns
Mayor Bums explained for the r,..cord . 1lm1 the reason he nbstniucd is bcc;iusc he is on 1hc Housing
Authority bo.1nl and lhis Cil) di1ch location is adjacent 10 a Ho11s111g Au1hon1~ propcn~. \\here 1hc
Housing Authority plans to build ;i 1ownhousc dc\c lop1n cn1 .
(b) Approvnl orOrdin:111ccs on Scco11d Rend ing
COUNCIL MEMBER WAGGONER MOVED, AND IT WAS SECONDED, TO APPROVE
CONS[NT AGENDA ITEM 10 (b) (i) ON SECOND READING .
(i) ORDINANCE NO . 13 . SERIE S OF 199& (COUNCIL BILL NO . l.
INT"RODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER WAGGO NER)
AN ORDINANCE AtrnlOR IZING THE EXCHA NGE OF TWO PARCELS OF PR OPERTY LO CATED
AT UNION A VENUE AND THE SOUTH PLATTE RIVER BETWEE N THE SOULE TRUST
PARTNERSHIP AND THE CITY OF ENGLEWOOD. COLO RADO
\'olc mulb:
Ayes : Council Members N;1bhok Garrell . Bradsh;m . Hal>c mcht.
Waggone r, Clapp . Bur .1s
N:t~s· No ne
Mollon c.1 mcd.
(c) Rcso l1111011s and M011011 s
(. WNCIL MEMBER WAGGONER MOVED , AND IT WAS SECO:'>DED , TO APPROVE
CONSENT AGENDA ITEM Ill (cf (i). •
lnJle•ood City Couacll ,, ,. 1 ,,1 ) b,,0 ,, ,1,, •
J1nu1ry 19, 1994 ~t•r•1 1,11 , u im•
.... 17 "'
(i) RESOl.l!TIOlil ,NO. J, SERIES OF 1998
A RESOLUTION FOR Rf.APPOINTMENT OF LINDA F. COHN, AS ASSOCIATE MUNICIPAL
JUDGE FOR THE CITY OF EN(;LEWOOD . COLORADO .
Vote rcsulls:
Motion carried .
Ayes : COWlciJ Members Nabholz. Gnm:11, Bradshaw, Habenicht ,
Wa&:!!"DCr. Clapp, Bums
Nays: Non,,
11. Replar AJ:Ollda
(a) Appro\'al ofOrdinanec5 on F1rsc Rc.1di11g
TI,cn: were 1,0 addilion.11 items submmcdi tfor nppro,al 011 firSi rc.1tling . (Sec Agc nd:1 Item 10 • Const:.nl
Agcncfa.)
(b) Approval ofOrdi=.,. Sca>nd Reading
There were no addilion.11 i1cms submincd!dnr appro\'al on second reading . (Sec Agcnd.1 11cm 10 • Cl)nsc111
Agcnd:l.)
(c) Rcsol111ions and MotK>ns.
11,crc ",::re no addi11ou.1I rcsol111tons or monions su bmillcd for a pprov :•I (Sec Agcnd:1 hem 10. Cunscnt
Agcnd.1 .)
12 . General Discussion
(a) Maio~, Choice
I. Mayor Bums s.,id he 1101iccd Coumm l had a rcpon regarding 1he Was1ewa1er Trcauue,u Plan!
regardin g odor control. We h,1d run out of d:eimcal supplies and we were ha vi nr "II odo r problem He
commented that he was JUSt a little conc:a:nc:I about how that happened and how we can make su~ :!·,ut
doesn't happen again . He said he lho11ght \\.\t "''ere domg some 1m·cstig:u111g 011 1ha1 :rnd mnk111g sure it
doesn ·1 happen ag.iin.
City Marmger Scars advised 1ha1 lie . Chuck Es1.:rl~ And~ McM1111111cc. Charle} Bl ostcn a11d Siu Fon da
had a supc rv1 s0 ~ mec 1111g last week . as Linlteton and Englc,\ood mcc1 monthly He sta ted the) did
discuss that in some detail. He c.,prcs.scd IU$.rooccrn. along wi th 1h..i1 of 1hc Council and L111lc1011 . of :he
perception that !here will 1101 be ocior or 1har rt.here was :1 grc.11 dc.11 of money spclll in 1cnns of odor
control. Because. he OOlcd. it is being spe.t L ¥'1th the co ns1mcu on. but we need lo lel 1hc Council ,ind the
public know t.hat during the C'lnstrucuon l!.111!.! there will be 11111cs of odor and even after that there will be
times of upset at the pla111 that may pcnodJCUll~ happe n. He opined llmt the intent is to do major od er
control in the best m,,nncr we am. "ith lhc dlullan. avai labl e. Mr Scars ndviscd tha t he has asked Stu
Fonda to put together some public 111 fonnanuw m.·uc n.i !s for 1he Cou ncil and 1hc prc.;s. Because . he said.
he feels that bot.h comm1111111cs arc srnccn:fy ..:anccrn cd alx.>111 ,,ha1 we arc re.illy doi11g there mid \\e 11t-cd
10 do a heller Job of pro\'tding infonu,11100 putnl.Jcl) on ,\hill we arc rc..1lly domg and wha1 !he public can
• expect down lhc ro;1 d He said hJ JIISt \\.UUl!t!! 10 sa~ tha l thal 1s a 1111ss1011 ,,c bolh Englc,,ood and
t.n(iewood Chy C:uuncll
.I uary 19, 1991
Pa .. 18
I :1Uccon shore and we will lry and c11dcavor 10 do II belier job . Mr. Scars opinal rhal the failun: 10 ps the
, '1cmiads. Illar one •imc. cnn be dealt with and ii wns n:nll1• nor npproprlaro nnd lhc problem n:ally
, .. 1,n:ls !,cyond Uuu nnd we need 10 don belier job of infom .ing Council and the public.
1.. Mnyor Burn,; snid 11,at he wanted 10 thnnk lhC' Clc:m. Green and Proud Commission for«.■"
work on the trash issue . He co1n mcn1crt 1hat lhcy have worke-i u!1 lhis for a long time. it is a diJlialla SIC
and he appn:ci.rc:i their clTons .
(b) Council Mc1r.Ot.r's ~hoicc
(i) Cl1uncil Member Nnbhol z:
She stntcd she l:.ns had numerous calls on lhc pl:111 for 1hc General Iron Works si1e !nd she a
cu rious a. to how that wm wr ,rk 0111 .
2. Shr advised she h:i:t three cnlls on 1hc trn sh. one for II and 1wo agninst
(ii) Council Member Garrell
I. He noted he also had c:ills on the 1rnsh issue ;md it was son or split yes and no . ori th is s-=:acutar
iSSt.c .
2. He advised there seems 10 be an in ci'Jcnt or graffiri sho\\ ing up .irr·~11d 1hc Jason Park :ui::t.. more
than he has seen in 1he past City Man1gcr Sc.1rs staled 1he;, will follow u I th.:11.
(iii) Council Mc111bcr Br.idsha\\' s1a1 cd she l1:1d 1hrcc it c111s for City Man:1ga Scars
to follow--up on :
I. She slated she was ;11 lhe high school I hi s mornmg :md she was ,cry conccm cd b} the amount 1..f
graffiti on the wnll by 1he soccer field. b} 1hc plr,~ me field .
2. She advised that. wilh !he lr.ish ordin:11,cc co rn ing up. shi: rccci\t.."Ci a phone all from a )ad: OW
li\'CS out by Stapleton Airpon . Her suggcs1i o11 \\ilS that we co111rac1 ,,i1h Demer 10 wkc a ll of oor o:ash in
the City and. Ms . Bra dshaw s.iid. she tol d her she would pnss lhnl alc;1g .
3. She notc:c:I she visilcd wilh lhc Cohen Brothers on !he nonh Englewood project . wi1h ~ Iron
Works. nnd told them her conccms . Ms . Bradshaw st.lied she would reall y like Council to at least !Dlnk
aN>ut confining !he area for that projccl to bcmccn Ba1cs :111d Yale :md \\C SI of Ela11 10 Gcneffll In...
period . And. she suggested. lhal !hey h:wc Gcucral Iro11 s1;1 n co111111g aboard ;111d 1ak111g p:.11 m lha?S
process. inste;,d of 011ly wmning 10 dc:11 wilh Slaff
(i\'J Council Mc111bc; Clapp nskcd 1ha1 Co un cil 1110,c 10 go m:o ;in E'\:CCU rl'le
Sess ion im111cdia1cly fo ll owi ng !his 10 di sc us) a pcrson 11ci mallcr Sh \! no1cd it should 1ake fn"'C mc,utcs ,:r,f
her lime. ;1s for as lhc i11fon11a1io11 she w:mtcd 10 shmc with Co unc il. unless rhc y h:1d Olher 1h1 ngs ao add
(v) Council Member Waggo uer noted 1h;11 so me lime ago Council passed a
ordin:rnce th:11 pmhibilcd yo ung sters und er 18 ~·cars or :1gc from smoking . He s.1i d he understands that
between 7:30 a.m. and 7:.i5 a.m. ttt Ille Hi gh Schoo l smoki ng is CJUitc prcv:1lcn1 He opined lh:31' ::1 l&ruc
sc lccli ve enrorcc1ncnl ,,ould probabl~ work quite well . 111aybc wi1l1 a warnin g 10 s1nn wilh and lbmow up
some lime lalcr . Night school 100 . Co un ci l Member Brads haw poi 111cd ou1 •
•
•
Enate,,Nd C ~-c .. ao1
January 19, lffl
I' h1 ) ,If J huOtf'Jl~ti'f
I C Ill l
Par.t 19 u~ !1:.,1141
Mayor f;ums ~ ,._ ii wu on imi)On:m1 nrdinana: and he agrCl'(I llwl we should enforce ii.
(ri) C..mdl ,Member Habcniclll said 51,c ,yan1cd 10 1hn1ik paulena Punccrclli , lh:
studcall ll ~ ~ --and lhc ICJCIICr for Ibo ,-k cily COUI\Cil mccling lail Thursday nigbL
She staled ii -,cally aaain110 soc lhat many ~ids hen: a11jl i11vol\'ed . She opi1\C(I thal Ibey did a
wooclcdil job and dlo,,d lllal thi• pr<>e:cOS is one tltat ,on of runs us. ralhc.r 1l,a11 we run the process.
6ccl111C, 511C nc'.cd. ii 11(..iod vc,y 1nuch like a regular Council nlCCling . Ms . Habcnichl commcnl<d that
it may haw. been I ar--s eqioricucc for them, bu1 thal ii w-.s tr, · 11 lcrutting c.,pcriencc for her. She
tlwlked cveryr,ne ..i.. (llllllicipoled and invilcd everybody 10 anend 1 : ncxi one
Counci l Member Br:xlsb:ra ach,;..sr.d tl1:111hc next one will wilh 1nidd . i,..·hool s111dc111s .
Mayor Bums apologized Ser not commenting on this c.1rlicr. bu! 1hcy really did enjoy ii. Ms . Punccrclli,
he noted.. did a pa&joh OIi .dais prog,am ond l,c received a lot of co111pli1ncni. for her. He ,aid the
teacher was vc,y, vc,y a,m.,tiu1<J11.0I}' of Ms. Punccrelli and he opined 1he kids ""!IIY did gcr a lot out of
tl1is . He commented wt b: is rc:1Uy looking fom-nrd to lhc nc~I session wilh lhc 1,1iddlc school students,
Mayor Burns advised CQIIIACUI thal this weekend he sent a lcucr 10 th e Housing Aulhorit) Di rector ;md 1he
Board. l'CAgning !root die-office vl chair and ;1skcd 1ha1 they sclcc) someone cl~ to be lht ch.1ir. He noted
Council has 1alkcd ~ 11m before nnd he has done 1ha1 so 11ml he is not in the higher profile position of
being lhc: chair o( the Hoasing Aurbnrily al the smnc time he is the Mayi::r . Just for Council 's
infonnation. be DOied. 1b.:y twvc had 3 •ncmbcr resign :u; he is 1110\ing 0,11 of 10,vn. It has nothing ID do
with the Council posioo, bu&.. }~ said, th ey will h,1ve lo fill a posilion on 1hc Housing Au1hori1y Bo.ird
from lbc ci1iunry .
13. Cit,-Ma•~•JMqM,n
(a) Cit) M;magcr Sears asked Director Olson 1f he had an oppunumly to 1alk ID 01rcc1or
Simpson about the localm of1hc propcn y over there . Also. he asked Director Simpson. if he had a
feeling if1h.1t \l-1ll 1mltc: • 111rpaa .11 oil iu terms of1hc Sou1h Bro.1d,\ar plan .
Director Simpson .stlllC:d dut. from a s1 111dpo1111 of bciug l'R .i 011c yc:1r bn s1s. it may h.ivc ;1 pos111vc impact
in llut neighborhood.. I--.: aid. fr01n his swndpoi111 11 is rc."\SOnabl c.
City Manager Scars 35k.ed 1ml Director Olson just make a coupl e comments about wlwl is being proposed
at the location .
Director Olson said.. :as iw:' 5l3tcd in Sindy Session. they nrc propos11:g 1hat !hey OJY.:11 up a com 1 ,unity
policing storcfroot opcrat10t1 :11 2911 S0111h Broadh:J} He 1101cd it is .1clll:illy at the corner C"r B:11cs :md
Broad,my. There 1S lhe ill:&1L1b1h t)' ofa lensed b111ld111g duwn then:. he Silld, aud 11 ,s a d1v1dcd bu1ld111g
\\itJ1 4000 square feet.. :\k"~ Olson ad\'iscd th.11 1hey arc propos111g to lake the south 2000 square fe et. ii is
already set up as an affic: space b~ Print e rs Pcrso1111cl and "ill be rnc:11cd at lhe e nd of 1111s 1110111h . The
lease will be 3\-aJ lablc Fcbru.;i l) I". He staled tl1cy nre pr0posing lo 1110, c 1l1e co11111111111I ) rcla11011s offi ce.
which is 01Ticcr NaOC} Paerwn. and th e.: 1111p;1c1 tea m. ,,111 ch is five officers. 11110 1ha1 loca/10 11 He sa•1
the building is in good~ :ind csscnlially they will ha,e ii all cleaned up and rcndy to go for us if,\e
decide lo move ahead ~iu .at He Slalcd 1ha1 lhc lcnsc aud associated costs . for the first yc:;1r. \\JII be about
SJ l .000. He opmcd ~:c C';kll poss ibly pick up a pon1on of th:n funding through ft rfcllur e asse ts. ,,hich we
h.1vc available. and alsGdlrough so 111c gr.1111 fund s wl1 icl1 lie prc sc 111ly h.is and w1, I be ab le 10 ge l 111111c
fu1urc . Director O!soa SDl cd m: will still hmc ICl pick up a substa1111al pon1D11 of 1h~ lea~ co~1s Long
En1lewoo~ City Council
January 19, 1998
, ..... 20
i. l-t)l1n1t n i
l'f n,una.l
l'I ,;i&•I
range, he sald, they lhinlt this is an excellent 1111y to ~ve • ~lice pmcnce.., tllo _ _. lltown.
cspcclally in that Bnadw:iy corridor. where we have had S1&<1irtca111 problems in tbc .... He opined the
community would rt •lly desire to llnve them over In that arao. He e,cplainod dlal the...,.._ will
csscndnlly be open eight to 1,·n hoors n day nnd it will be 11\'lilable lbrofflom to IIGp • ii'...,. want to
use it ns a remote office to work on different rcpons nnd so on . But. he n-. Ir ....... -i1 wm put
them over on that side or town •:d the !c.,sc option gives them the avall.:,l,lllty or--. II.:_.. front to
tlilfercnt areas ortown as we need it. He ndviscd they arc really <.<cittd about It -lltey viev,> it as one
mon, step in our commitment with 1vo:1<ing wnh the community. panicularfy rna de..,,_,ity
policing standpoint and from nanny different n.spccts of Safety Services . With C-,cil's appmval. he said,
he fcl! they could move ahcud wilh this . He :iskcd if Council had ;my other qucst10u
Mayor Bums lhankcd Din:c1or Olson for giving lh c infonn.itio11 ag.1in .
Council Member Habenicht r !d tluu Mnyor Burns menrioncd 1,1is a, ,.he Sruct,• ScslaoR. and she would
appreciate him s1u1ring his commc. 1. :tbout how much we do apprccialr •he W0fk ou, ;,ohcc officers do for
nll or us.
Mnyor Bums stmcd rh:u we hnci n shooting incident n couple or nigh1s ago on a domc::st. VIOience call at
Quincy . There was an individunl who was nol supposed to be on the premises Md lAcre. was a call from
the wife. When the police officer arrived nnd asked lo ,ce the 1Mn's hand! be pallod-1 gnaand st311ed to
fire . The police officer was hit on his cquipmenl . the bullet gL,nccd oft". an01her dl'iccr-.a.tm-ed.. d~•
returned fire nnd the man wns subdued . Bu i. he pointed out the police offur had •enrcnady close call.
Mayor Bums noted 1hn1 Council wns infon11cd. ~y Oirector Olson al the S11Jd) Scssicm. th.al we cnmc
within a few inches of maybe having a dc.td officer. Mayor Bums emphns1zcd that dlu ran,.-illustrates to
us, once again. ho w these officers pu1 their lives on lhc line when they serve on o..wpatic:e deipanmcn t.
And, he noted. e\'cry time 1hcy go out nnd es pecia ll y on these dom~ic violence Cllk. •-hich arc one of
the most dangerous c.1lls lhcy t;ikc, th;if somcumcs you do11 '1 know ,,h.11 they arc goc:ig to be walking
into . But lhis officer, he s.1id. was ,·c ry fonun.11c :md it was handled very prok.iliemally We hod an
impact team 01 :t there. falc Saturd.1y nigh,. :is well ns a di s1ric1 allorney and Gary Scan; our City Manager .
He opined it was very• impressively handled by our police dcpartmcnl pcrsonnd Mr.._-or Bums. un behalf
of Council. thanked /hem for !hat nnd lhnnkcd them again . for 1hc f;te1 lhat ti~ Jo.pill their lives on the
line every time they go out there . This. i1c noted. isj11s1 anot her illustr.uion ofllaat
(b) AJdrcssing the i1cm listed ns Agc11da hem IJ (a). rcl:111,-c 101 prQf?D5Cd agrccmenl \\1th
Dccpwa1cr Point rcg:1 rdi11g rcde,·clopment , Cily Manager Scnrs ndviscd lh:U pan oftru$ as thal rhey JUSC
want to keep this issue goi11g. bo th from the s1;1ff lc\'el rind as a Co uncil 1.~nd.11e and d.il't\.,1on He
opined thnl they need to gel di reel ion . a fee ling from Council ofnhcrc 10 go "1th~ p.ro:,ea so th~ can
possibly proceed wilh !he Fcbmary 2nJ d:llc. He th.i nked Tim Lcon ,trd :md Manlcc i'.J11er for quickl y
pulling 1ogcther n lot of infor111 ::tio 11. O1rcc1or Simp:.on·s s1a ff for \\Orkin g wnh us .i:nd lbc entire statT he
is working nith . He ndviscd \ . iia\'c a group of profcssi'lnals who hm·c .ned 10 puO 1lus 1nfonmu1on
10ge!hcr in an c:qxdi11ow ,11.,11,1cr . He smd he is 1101 sure I\ 1s as complcrc a~ he wcu.1 d like 1::i hnve n. but
tJ1cy are nil pressed with tin: :, terms of how 1his comes 1oge1hcr. He noccd Counal lm a memo from
Bob Simpson that outlines a JJfOposal we received from Tim Lcon.1rd and ,._bnlce (.'la.er He noted that
basically !hey would be our C\\11cr's rcp rcsc n1:i1i ve 011 lhc de-.-clopmc111 of1hc ~lb C1~ proJcct He
s.1id Council Ii.is a •:ch cct1 :le Ii r 1hn1 work . :i cn lic:i l 1>.11l1 . a matri ." of 1hc 1ypcs of rJmngs 1ha1 will be
needed for the project anl! :t 11~: or panicip.1111s 1ha1 lhcy have pulled 1ogc1l11..r who w.culd be workin g wnh
them on th e dc \'elop111 c.n1 oflhc project. Mr . Scars staled thm M:1rilcc Uncr. T,m '...comrd. Jo lin Loss .
Skip Miller nnd Mark Goldberg were in lhc audience 10111gl11 He s.1id 1h1s IS one COI00Cp(. one 1~ pc or
approach thnl the Council co uld 11:;c 10 proceed on th e proJCC I. With the re.am of pa..11opants. he op ined .
we can work 1ogc 1hc:r tJ 111ake 1l1c proj cc1 as close :1s \\ c ca n get it. On the Olhcr ltund rhe~ arc ch.ingcs in
tcnns orwhc, is in co ntrol and who is dc\'cloping that proJcct Ihm ha,·e llOI quisc been defined and ,\h .. 11 •
11c ,11) lJ1111 l.:,11 t
Y, \ (IJ f
the ........iaip of the variow par:lclpanll is. He snid he docs 1101 know eX11ctly how 10 proceed wiU1 lhls.
OIJla .... dlere is really no final aan:c,ncnl Uc,i cnn be approl'cd 1onigh1. bccnusc lhe Council will hnve
to aiiliarizc Juading in a 51,pplcmcnlal approprlalion lo be 1n111sfcrrcd iflhc Council decides 10 go in U•l•
dueclia,. ~ of the key clcmenlJ of Ilic con1inua1bn wilh Tiic Dcq>1,~1cr Poin1 Company wu lhe level
of ~II. the level of participalion nnd lhc funding by lhc developer. Mr. Sc.,rs ~,id we did nol
m:cn.: • Idler that he fell comfortable givi:ig lo lhe Council in 1cnns of where his level of panidpaUon
...., Ii: aid he would a5k 1hc Coundl lo hc.ir from possibly Dircclor Simpson. or Marilee Utter. initially
and 1a llla)tlc hear from Skip Miller as 10 where !his projcx:1 is going mod lhcn gel n direction from
Cou..-..il.
D,:--.---:-Si'mpson sc:ucd th .. 11 we h.1vc a couple of issues facing Council. He opined 1ha1 staff is clea rl y
•-mat this project needs to get underway . thal lime is abso lutel y of the essence . He ~,id they hear that
very, >a)' ckarly. TI1e issue. he nc ,lcd. is also tl:a1 Council has had a series of meetings in which they
have CllllbDUCd 10 conlinn lo us thal 1hcy w:111110 move fom.1rd wilh the conc:cpl thnt includes unnsil
orie.-d clevdopmcnt clements. He advised lhcir concern has been. llun we hnve shifted from a 100%
mail ,an. 1h11 we were looking nt last summer. to something lh:U is 11\0rc unusunl :m d we don 't M,·c all
the aaswers :nd "'-ch.id to begin 10 find the :rnswcrs and it ha.> 1akcn tim e He s.1id he knows that we
doo 't lave any more Hmc Jen . One of the issues 1ha1 he keeps bringing up 10 Council . he no1ed. is the
issue arna aad cost and comple~ily . Jus110 ensure that Council h:is an Jndcrs1anding ofth.11 he felt tha1
ii was amportanl to rcitcrn1e what some or 1his 1nenns tonigl11 in 1cru1s or risk On this paniculnr project.
the wa:!ftbis conlr3CC is con1empl:11ing mo·,ing fom'ilrd. is th..11 the City would m:i1111aia 1 control of this
TOO nsion. We would be doing 1hat level or co111rol 1hrough r1c1i11g .is kind or th e master dC\•clopcr on
this~-And that. he pointed out . carries with ii :l significan t le vel of risk . Thm Is n differe111
directian :.tan w:as o•.igin.1ll y proposed "hen we sin ned 111is :-rron . He noted 1hc origina l idea . wilh
Mil1e:t.lr.11cb:H u a sclcctcd developer. \\·;1s 1h:11 Miller/Ki1chell would co1nc fomard wilh II retail plan
and we-'\\'OUld in essence. slip. quote unquo1e . lhc projcc1 propcn y 10 the developer and th:n the risks of
the projects design and dC\·elopmcn! would be borne generally by the dc\'clopcr. Those costs would be
paid fiJ6 up front by 1J1e dcl'elopcr . Under lhis proposed co n1rnct. he advised . we take on lhosc costs and
we nao-c the project vision forwnrd . That doesn 't 111ea11 to s.1y th:11 we cnn 't innuencc a transit o:icnted
dcsipdirougb tl,c dc\-clopcr in a di1Tcrc111 manner. Ile stated 1hat is possible . But. he advised . they
wamal 110 thJlJ'W some of these ideas out lhcrc because. as he s.1id before in SC\'Cr.JI mcc1ings . TOO is \'Cry
diffiCWI. 'Cl) complc.'< and \'Cl)' cosily 10 1he Cily . This co 111plcxi1y and cos, c,111 be 1r:rnsrcrred 10 some
c.\"1.CDL bn a cash now s1:i11dpoin1 . 10 1l 1e dc \'clopcr The 'lucslion 1h:11 comes w11l1 1h.111r:1nsfcrc11cc is
would t:!l: dc-\"CJGpcr hold the \'ision lh.11 Co1111cil secs thal needs to h:ippcn Those ilrc the questions Mr .
Simpsom said the thought more lh:111 :tn)1lung 1ha1 needs to be :111swcrcd. from s1:1fTs standpo1111 tomght ,
thal is cally being looked :11 in the cover memo . is what dirt."Clion. \\hal level or risk tolerance and wh.11
amount af cost. is the Ci1 y willing 10 bear tr stafT undcrst :rnd s that. he s.1 id . we can go 01 :: :md ge l i1
conl.r:la that suppons th.11. He co mment ed tl •a t i( the colllrilct needs 10 be with The Dccp,~atcr Poun
Com~ 3Dd have Mr Lcon .. 1rd illld Ms . Ullcr sc"·c ns our O\\IICrs rr:prcsc ntali vcs. 10 progress 1hi s vision
that Ccmncil suppons. move it forward . theu that is whal we need 10 hear If Council bclic,cs thal a
conl.r.la: .needs to be solic!1ficd w11h 1l1c sc lcc.cd d(;·,c lopcr. Millcr/Kitcl1cll . :111d lln:ir d1rcc11011 lo st;1IT 1s
th.1t we IDCcd to mo\C fommd nnd so lidif~ 1ha1 cc,n1r.1c1. supporting :i \'is100 of TOD. he s.1 1d. then we can
do that lmO . He said we llf'C d 10 1111dcrs1a11d thnl :rnd thi s is,, hnt we 11cd to hc.1 r from Couucil. their
directicm to su.fI. TI1cn. 1,c s1.1 1cd. lh e~ c.111 ha \: those ~0 11:r.1c1s read~ faul~ (lm d.l~ amt brmg 1hcm
forward. He noted ii is the bro.id vision, th e policy dircc1io11 . th:11 slafT nct.:ds 10 und crs land fr om Co1111cil.
Dircctoll' Simpson 1n.1111r:1i11cd th:U C\'ef)body is he,e tc11i¥,III 10 help :mswcr so me or these qm:s li ons. So if
tlus needs 10 be opened up 10 a bro:1-lcr di reel ion. 1hcrc arc people here aud m:ulablc .
Mayor 8kwns staled th.:11 it was hi s und crst:mdi ng . lhc lasl lime they 111c1 \\Ith Peter C:,Jthorpc.
Millcr/Kinchell and so fo11h. thal it sounded like cvcr:,body w.is 11ccepti11g the TOD co 11 ccp1. that 1hc
Council !bad ac:ccp1cd One of 1hc W;J)S of domg 1ha1 was 10 ha,·c a co111 .ac1 ,,uh 1hc sc r\'i cc pro\'1der for
ltaalewoud City Council
J1nu1ry 19, 1998
P11e n
''' f l,oot, ,t:tr,d
ll l1 (' , 11111 ., ,.
the City and to hnvc tho City, In effect , be a lot of focus oft~idcvclopmcnt . Becawc this co~ was . 3S
tl1cy mentioned, changed from lhc orl1inal one lhal wc had wii!b Millcr/Kh chell . He comn,cnl<d tl,nl Cliy
Mana,u Scan has said dull wc didn 't act a lc.tcr, of qu ite thc w mmi1mc n1 to th is. from Millcr/Ki1chcll
tl mt we hnd expccicd , Mayor Bums said 1ha1 one of his queslii:w, is . wha1 is 1he level or commitment 10
tl1is process ftom Mlllcr/Kitch<ll . He commenlcd I hat he fcdir iin some respects Cow1dl is, again. beins
asked to make decisi ons wi1hou1 as many tools as 1hcy would lil.e 10 ha\'e . Bccansc . he noted . they don 'I
know what all tbc financing incrc1nc nts of th is arc . We know ia Js difficult . we know we lui vc a si te tha1
hns huge struelwcs on it lhat needs to be dcmoli,hed and we i....c a p.'Uting stru,1ure that is difficull 10
deal witb. He noted that irwc had a nirc. clean piece of ~ .this would be a 101 ~aicr. So the more
we put a City Hall lhcre and 01hcr in' ::l ure that h.u 10 be ~ by lhe City. the more difficult ii
becomes, He said he, and lhc otl1er "'-· ..:rs of Council, ~ llw: to know whal the IC\'els or
comwjtmcnt arc here from I~ various people we 101\'e been dl::lllina ,.;th 10 join IOBClhu on a contract
like tl1is . lfwc arc bci.,a asltcd Jo fund . wha1 i,c though, was a second phnsc. for S285.000, with Marilee
Uncr and Tim Leonard and The Deepwater Poi lll Comp.1ny, he-wit. hey need lo know llmt thal is well
spc!'t. He conunc111cd thnt there i5 a deal brea ke r 90 day period! iin c:-c when we would really know, one
wny or the ocher. ir 1his th ing can be fln.,nccd or wl1 c1hcr we b.1v.1: 10 go 10 the p<.-o plc or \\hc1hcr we ha\'C
to ask them to subsidize 1his thing. so lhnl wc cto11 '1 spend ;rn awful 101 or 111011c) a nd 1hen find ou t ii
doc..n 't work . Mayor Bums ~:1 1cd that in his opini on it has 10 Cl: nurkc1 drh en 11 c:-111 ·t be dri\'c n b) the
Ci ty or the s1aff or a PUO. ioniug ordinance or so111cthi11g :ikc 1111. He s.1 id it has to work somehow
aJong the line and he was not sure where wc arc wilh 1hc partici;mn ts right ·.,ow.
Di rect or Simpson suggcs1cd tl 1ey ask 1hc pa nicip.1111 s to step up JU\d c.xp lmn 1l1cir le vel or comm itmem .
He sai d be would tell Cou ncil 1hat 1hc TOD concept is be ing looi:ed :11 by C\'Ctybody in volved a nd he
believes lhc rc is n le\'el or romm itmcnt from nil panics 10 co~ to sec ir there c;·m be a TOO plan pu1
forward lo Cow1c il th.11 can be imple111c111 cd. He s:iid he was go cn_g to let th ose pc<•pl c !ell Council thal
bul ll1a1, whnt is being asked here is no111cc:css.·uily th.11 TOD \\.c:d:s or doesn 't wo:rk . It is kind orho\\ i i
gets done and how it gels implcmenh .. -d . Mr . Simpson opined 1fuw .it is a signifi c.1111 enough issue 1h.11 we
need 10 ialK through ii 1onigl11 and get Counci l's dircc1ion . He nskcd Tim Lco nnrd 10 s1c p up and lalk
aboul what tJ1ey sec as lhc owners rep rcsponsibil ili cs. BCc:lusc lr.>m itaff's standpoinl . one oflhc1r
co ncerns . is lhat 1hcy want Counc il to full~· unde rst and and 1(the-~ urufcrsrnn d ;rn d il grcc. 1hat is grca1
But the City, by wo ~Ling tJ1rou gh 1his contra ct. is in esse nce tak1ay: on the role ordc\'elopcr. where we
have control oft!ic vi sion . He s1a1al we need Ill 11ndcrs1and h::m ~hm afTCCls C\'Cf)body invol\ed and
whether C\'Cl)''JOdy !ms agreed to 1hat dirCC1 io 11 .
':"im Leonard . Pres id ent orThe Dccpw;11 cr Po int Compau). said hi!' would like 10 respo nd to any qu estio ns
Council mi ght have or him . Pan of wh.1 1 they ha\'c bee n doi ng. s;:n:e this is a process or providing som e
vi sion that is t:i ffcrcnt rrom the 100¾ rel ail pl an. is to be abl e to put some optio ns in front of Co unci l and
then be abl e 10 f.5,i ~ 01111f1h osc wo rk ... lina nciall y. in lhe 11t.1rk.:r. \\i th the lime s1n1C1 urc. c1 c. So . he
asked 1hat Cou ncil pl ease ask lh e qu cs1io ns 1ha1 arc on ihc ir min ds.. \\hc1hcr it is 1hc issues of ri sk or
doll ars or timin g or wh.11cvcr. Mr. Lco narl c.x pl ai ncd thil t an a,\ ol!:r· s rep has a 1ns k. :\.5 th e 0\\ nc rs of the
propcny ilnd the provide rs of•hc \'i sion. when 1he~ S.1)' 1hc~ no,\ c,\\1\ the · opc ny and I w:1111 this to go on
ii. but I don't pl an. I don'I do Sl ic ks and bri cks. I do 11 •1 h,1 \c arc iuru:cts on s1afT. I don I do all th:11. That
value nee ds to be ad ded. lie said . On ce you s.1y thi s is \\lL..1 1 we w:mn for ou r co 1111 11u ni l). how do \\e ge l
there 10 do II .. lhcn ,,c ll a \'C a co nce pt. b111 \\e uccd a dcvclo pmc111 plan The defi11 i1io 11 or a dc \l·lo pmcnt
pl an is somet hing in a bi nder tha t can be 1111plcmc mcd. somc1lu11g t hat the use rs s.1~. ~cs . I will go th ere
for 1hi s :u uoulll of tim e. fo r I his ;1111 011111 ofdo lbrs. thi s is \\hat I \\!Ill be a ble to de\'clo p. A rel:1il
de vel oper or a resi dent ial developer or an offi ce bui ldiu g de, el oper \\ 111 s.1~ I ,, Ill pa~ 1h:11 amou 111 of
money for 1lm1 bu ildi ug. buill :u 1h;11 llm c and thi s 1s \\h at I \\1II dt: and 11 all comes toget her and all the
numbe rs wnrk . He mili n1:1i ned thal Coun cil has thal dul~. 1h:1 t 1l11!' 11;1\c lh.:1 1 res ponsibilit y as lh e own er
of the propcny . In tha t c;isc you ci 1her do it ~0 11 rsc lf,\11h 1he Sl:lfi"'f'OU lt.1\e , hire empl o~ccs 1o do it . yo u
fa nn ii ou t ·o so meo ne tll il l is under yo ur co nlrol or you rclie\c ~cnr-scl r or 111:11 rcspo nsi bili ry by givin g
•
•
E■1Hwoud Clly CIMlncll
J-•i')' 19, 1991 , ... u
11 ) ,st b 'fl.,,,, 11JI
' f , f ,1,u,l
, .. J t
lhal 10 a dcyeJopcr 10 be able 10 do ii 011 1l1cir uic~el. Ho suid il!ey fnctor inside lhnl, 1hei r rnle of n:1um
1h11 i& appropriaac. and lhcy Ulke lhc visio,~ illlll couccpl , and lhcy do wh•1 needs 10 be done 10 11 in order
le make II work . So llwl. he said 1 adding of value 011 lhe propcny has 10 be done and lhe only "'"l you can
n:dU<;e your rilllr. i& by ~1J(ling Ilic prqjCC1 . Know wluu 1hc spn:odshccl soys. here is 1hc d~i1"r
amow,~ c«:. Mt. Leonard advised 1h01 is pan or whnl he docs wi1h his job and he hos workeG forihc City
oCDcaycr, other 1100-profilS like lhe An Museum . nud a projcc1 in Dc1roi1 for n bank as• lrust , doing lhc
euc1 sam,: lhing. He cmphui,.cd lhis is whnl he docs and whal he likes 10 do. He ~,i d he helps a no11-
profi1 or a city or a 1nunicip,ill1y 11Mlyzc lheir risk and ndd value 10 lhc propcny so 1hcy can gc1 wha1 1hcy
want. or as much as 1hcy wanl, for the best price in lhc fastest timclinc . Somc1imcs, he poin1cd out . tha1
means he gives ~hes they don't like 10 hc:ir. Su ch ns. I'm so n)', th.is is lh c retail you ha\'c to have.
because you need the sales L1."< dollars . Or this kind of architcc1urc or thi s park is too c~pcn fr. c 8 u1. he
noted. there ore other times when I.here is 1hc opportunity to be ublc 10 taken visio n :md make ir
somcth.ina more than whal mccls lhe naked eye. He opined I hat p.1n of 1he problem tl1ey have today . is
lha1 tlu:y hove a conccpl 1h01 looks good a11d feels good . bul lhcy do11 '1 hnve lhe 1n.ukc1 and the lc\'cl of
undcrst.'Wding from C\'Cl')'OIIC, himself included, thal says this is doab le, thi s works . He said it needs a
tinte period for anyone 10 do it. Now, he s.1id. you could fon:1 it out and keep th.it control or you can hand
it O\"Cr to a dc\•clopcr, like in an RFP process . Or. ir)'Ou have a selec ted de.,.elo pcr. you s.iy ... this is what
you can do, this is our vision, this is whal we w,1111, give us a development p'n11 for it and come back and
bccau5c it i, our property we 'll take whnlcvcr rcm:1i11ing dollar amount there is . And ir ii is a zero dollar
and you need no subsidy from us. or if it is n $3 million or $4 million check that you need from U5 tD do it,
then come back with 1h.1t. So . Mr. Lconnrd ad\'iscd . th al is the point Council is at today and they need 10
be able to undcrst.111d 1ha1 level of risk . The dcfini1i on or risk iu lhe situ:11ion you arc in toda)· is, do )OU
pay for tl)C work 1lia1 has lo be done. in order to solve Ille problems lh:11 have 10 be soh·ed. in order 10 get
your concept pl nn into a dcvclopmCJll pl an. Tl1at 1ncn11s analyzing ~irking strncturcs, estimatini cus1s of
demolition, doing th e pro form.is in between. topography 111,,,.s. t•Ulit y maps ... aU those lhing.s 1ha1 h11vc to
don.: anJ nonnalJy :t develope r docs them . He st;11cct that St .i p Mi::..:r has already done 111cm. mo SI of
th em. for a 100¾ rcrn il plan . He s.1id Mr . Miller is 30 d:1ys il\\·;J)' from being able to s:J). here is a number
it.at it would cost for us to do 100% rc1a il pl:111 ::nd \\C c:111 do it. you c.111 provide a !:.!% guaranteed rate of
return and the difference is x. nnd the liming is y. and t11crc it 1s. That. he poii:1cd out. 1s 1101 the s.1me as
on this 1mnsil orienlcd dcvrl opmcut p:111 . There isn't a 30 d.1) period. there 1s a 6 111011th period. because
yo u ha\'c 10 go back m am1 be able hJ sol re some of th ose prob k1 ns. Some or 1hosc prob lems. h-: s1atcd .
arc very expensive and rhe b1gges1 issue is lhc pmkiu g stnicturc . Bcc,msc one 1h111g thm a T01) plan
docs. lhal a 100% retail plm 1 docsn ·1 do. is il is dense And dense. he sa id . means park mg and II means
struct ured p:uking.. Because ).:'U cm ou ly ha ,c so much surr.ic.: p;irk1111 011 a 50 acre Sile. But 10 h:l\c a
transit site, on e lh:11 is a park ·11 :idc . 011e that is rcs1dc111ial .md sta cked up :md still has su rf.ice retai l on
it. 11 needs a parking stmclure . H ! note<: Ihm the lirsl I lun g "e s:1y to ourschcs 1s ... \\ell \\e h;1\C aJI 1his
parking st ructure. can 't we s.1 ,·e sumc of i1. Well. Mr. Leonard ad\ iscd. they looked back III the studies .
and there have been gobs or st udi ,:s since 1970. unbelie vable :1111oun 1s. and .i!!110!-1 all of !hem an·\ 1sua l
i11spcctions, visu.1 I inspcc1ions, V!.illal inspcc1io11s . He St.lh.:d thal on~ time !h ere \\Cre so me core !I.a mple!.
taken. and this is a $20 111illio11 !,lnic1urc. \\ here 1hree core s:1111ples we re laken a11d 011ly one was
an.1lyzcd . He s.1 id. when we sil Jown with the ;1rchi1cc1s :rnd lhc e11ginccrs. M:u1i11 ;rnd Manin. who a;e
the same people th;it have ,,or kcd, on this projc:cl. with Millcr/Ki1chcll before. w: have 1101 tapped 11110
anybody new . so \\C arc 1101 redoing an}1hing ... Walkcr/Parkiug. 1h1..~ arc the s:un e people and the) have
done 1heir sa me ,·1s11:i ls They s.1y 1he firs t thin g th:11 needs 10 be do ne is )OIi need 10 look hard :it the
structure . We h;n c to kno\\ c.'t:actl) ,,hat we arc domg . He ;1d\'1 scd 111:1110 gct nc,111,c \\C 111,1} h,1 ,·e 10 do
something lh;II 1s11·t C0IIIIII0 II . \\C h:nc to be able 10 Slcp 0111 or the bo .'t: ;rnd Sa~ can \\C put ·" J.III0UOI of
dollars in nnd s.1 ,·c I hi s pa rk ing s1mc1urc . Wel l. he 1101cc.l . 011cc it is s.n·cd . 1f II c:111 be . \\Ith , amount of
dollars. then a ll of a sudden we h:1, ea desig n problem . We ha ve 10 go through and do so me rcdcs1gn111g
and put some ma ne~ here. b111 1hc 1111111 bcrs gc1 closer aml I hen lh cy ge l fun her and 1he11 1hcy gel closer.
Thal , he s.1id . is 1i1cir itcra1i o11 process that c,·cry de,clopcr •;ocs lhrou &h :1ll 1hc 11111c You ha\e those
chcckpoi ru s th:it s.1y is 1hi s 1;0111 ~ 10 be doable . Th,11 . h•: ad, 1scd . 1s J..1w1 of our •Jo da~ iss ue th:11 \\as
lnl!lewnod Clly Coancil
Jaauary 19, ,\99 8
Pag• 14
, 1111) ,1. lm111,,,1,n'i
~I 'I t•f 1'11 HH;l
Lr 1,11
really pu1 upo11 "" 10 "Y,.., doa 'I wutlO J;pcnd m,.ooo ond nil 1hesc cnilnccring fees nnd nll 1hcsc
s1udlcs !:"we know we an, going 10 have m,ie de3I bn:nker ... lhc strue1urc lsn 'I going 10 work nnd we arc
not going 10 g,:1 oor lrJJISil oriented de,idopmcnl plnn . So , he suggClled. lets hnv< some poinl 1ha1 we arc
halfwoy ... luw lhc money. halflhc SIL'W)'S. balf'lhc rcpons 1h:J1 get done. 11 is real meal)' stuff, bul a1 lhc
same time we net our answer. ae c:aa JDOt,e oa •;th s:1ying our vision isn 'I going to wo:t or it Is going to
work . Bccall.lC , he said. 1he bani ,on ym 11:1\-e is after oil lhe lime u-,1 h:Js bfcn lnvcslcd in Mying 1his is
whal we would lik e 10 do. Ibis 'IWlfks, l!mfccls good. we've go1 our annsamund ii , do you ulke lhal c:<1rn
step to be able 10 Onish lhc thought proc:ss. And it cos1~ money and now ii coS1s your money . That. he
maintained. is 1he hard p:an . Where you J;t.'f \1 back is when you say ... now that is done . now that is
fi nished , and ii would be ihc same costs a.. uoulci be provided insi de any Olher developer's pm formn .
Because. if you were to S:JY to the de\'dop:T t.'.akc these COSIS ... yo u would spend the smnc amoum of
money. the same amount ~studies.but C"' 111~d be inside the !t1mt:" :,ro fonn., th:11 ybu w~uld be insuring
tluu rate of return . :io. ht: slid. if it is s:~··· ·"C !>r $350 .000 or $450.000. JOU will sec 1h111 line item inn
developer's pro fonnn i1nd if ii is 100 r1\.C.:1 ~nd t he rmc of rctum ,;omC$ out 11 .4%. rind it needs to be at
12o/~ tlicn you recd 10 provide 1he diflbmt<. An d if you p!U\ide SJ~O .O'lO m,nh ofdlfl'trcncc, 1hen you
havej~t paid the $350.000 for the sot ~ o:sls. He slated thttt thc issue is 1d1.1 t you do is you c:ill lhc
team. you direct , you arc in charge :ind yt..1\1 ttla) c:1II 1hc sho1s. 11 is 1hc num hcr one nilc in real CSlftlC ... hc
who has the gold m.1kcs the ruJcs So. hc;advisc:d. \\he n you nrc in charge ,"Ou s:-,y we rirc go ing 10 work
on this plrin for :molhcr hour and we arc gomg 10 f1.,_.11rc out what 1J1c dcs1~n ,, ill bi.:. Pan of the issue you
have, and it is just a risk issue. and you c:n:n make ii ... :rnd. he s:iid. he was 1101 c\'en making :1
rccommen~nlion to Council oa what n is bot if they wanl their vision cfl0l1gh to be able 10 take 1he tlrne
and the money 11..1 be able to see if it c:an .mt. the n th~, is lhc step~ ou 1:1ke If yo u :ire no1 rind you
say ... it was all well and goc,d. \\'C enjoyed it. we wjo~cd seeing wh:u we could do . but rc.,li ry is here rind
we need lo be able 10 close off' a de\,:lopmcnt plan. this 30 days away from ii .. giv• us what the number is
for that 100-1. retail plan and. he said. Cocnci r c:m make 11 .. ,1 decisio n too . So r ,11 1 ori1 Is a cMh now
imtc of s.,ying do we really wan.110 spend mol'IC) do ing 1hings that sure we wi!1 get some value ou1 of
them t.tcausc tJ1c~ will be studies and St!:\~S tkn c:in help reduce the cost no m::111cr whnt 1hc pl:rn will
be. but some or it is just plain labor And labor. he said. is was1cd \\11en )"U arc done with it , if you don ·1
do the plrin . Mr. Lconnrd s.1id that he w.h."'tt cd 10 ,rnswcr any questions Council mi ght have
Director Simpson opined it was impc11t:n111 :to h::n,: Skip Miller come up for jn.!i.1 n moment
Skip Miller s.,id be "as nor C\-at sure bcoould rc:all~ respond. ;15 he reels 1hey h:wc been cnonnousl~·
dccci,·cd. He nolcd th.it Gal) Sclrs nud::a CXJmm cnt rind Ma~or 811ms respon ded t1ml th ey didn'1 get the
lclh!r they cxpcclcd of 1hcir comnutmcnr He ~ed . t,~ 1hosc 1wo commc n1s. ir rheri: 1s an insinuarion th tu
we have not cooper.lied in scndmg 1h1s llema'. C., Manager Sc.1rs advised 1h:it !h e Co uncil re.illy didn '1
even know about the le ft er Mr Mi ller ~"a!ncd th:1 1 he was 1alk11 g abo ut !h ei r co1P•ncn1 s . .-:bn111
Council's response 10 lhetr commcnl~\. ·J:r..'V t~ de\i:l upcr did 1101 b:ing the letter rhat Mr Sc:1rs requested
and That Mayor Bums was d1.s.1ppo1n1 r't! J=irl ind10 1cd 1h:11 1he~ \\C rc not coopcr.itin g He S'Jg£eslcd they
would Wilnt to n:pc.11 what thc-J s.1id atx ... t the !cftcr thm they wen :;upposc to scm..l iu . He nsked . to star1
ou t. what was G.u:; Sc.;rs commcr.t .1 bt>ur :llc letter
Cit)' Man. gcr Se:m explained th.i t his cccruncru was thri1 he w:rn1 crl a lcller fro111 Mr Mi ller ii rcnns of
where 1h:: co111111i1mc111 was Jnd ttl."!1 amc-.1u1 of the mccung 1h:i1 the) h:i d bsl wed.. He s.nd Mr Miller
didn 't provide :he len er. th.1t he: g.,,c a tccr:r Iha.I he asked 1h:11 they 1101 fo rw;ud 10 the Cit) Counc il He
advised that lhe issue 10 1hc Counci l 1s •m:?C 3J'C ~ou w11h th e prOJ)C'S.11 lh,1 1 1s being pn:sentcd 10 the
Ccuncil tonigh1 ... as a p:irti cip.,nt or not Hr opmcd 111:11 !h il l is rc;1lly tl1c iss11c a11d a \e11cr 111:11 would
have Cl..irificd th.11 , 10 go to lhc Coonc1 l c:tll\ ~'C l1 clpcd idt'111 •r\ tl1;i1 . but 1l1c Cou m.il W,1S11 ·, iJ WilrC that
th ere w:is a letter.
•
•
•
•
tn...,.ood City Cu11ncil
January 19, 1998
Pace 25
Mr. Miller staled he undcntood that nnd he fcll 1he conf11sion is. us he believed Mr. Scan jua aid. ,..
Mr. Sean wanted 1he le1ter to tell Co11ncil where Ibey nroon 1his proposal. Mr. Miller ooauncnlal -ii
Mr. Scan was ol the mcc1ing he wns al nnd if he listened 10 Boo Simpson ond listened 10 lhc ,,,..__
whlch he said he hoped he s.ivcd, bccnusc he \\ill dictolo ii and send ii back lo hlm ... but wbal he ....
wns !hit for them 10 respond to the proposul , they should sec the prq:osnl . He opined UIC)' thoocill ii was
a rcuonable poi Ill and Director Sim"50n agn:cd. He asked if they wou1~·1 'I ag,u. He cmphuiz,:d ~
have never seen 1he propos.11 , tha11hcy have requested ii and promised ii. He 3Sked how they can mpond
or be accused of 1101 responding. when they weren ·1 even given lhe propos.11 10 look al oiler 1hcy
demanded ii. And lhis iroup. he said . hos the nudacily 10 say 110,1 1hcy arc not n:sponding to it.
Mayor Bums asked Mr. Miller 1ocalm down a lillle bi1 , 1ha1 Council did11't lcive any idea :hat hcclma"l
have !he proposal.. Mr. Miller staled thal Mayor Bums gave him pcnuission to 1olk and if he --
to stop talking he can 5ICf him down. OlhcnY isc. he s.iid. he "ill lisacn 10 what he has to say. Mayor
Bums emphasized 1hn1 he wns chairing thi s mccling and he hlld 110 idc.11h,1t Mr. Miller hadn 't ICl:D Ille
propos:tl . He said 11:c-y presumed 1h:u he hnd hnd ii. had plenty or11111e 10 look II over. Tia 1nayt,o. Mr.
Miller soid, Mnyor Bums cnn undcrs1nnd why he is nggm\:itcd . Mayor B11m5 110Ccd he was not 11yU1&111
get after him personally. Mr. Miller rci1cnucd that lhcy ha\lC nC\·cr seen a proposal. Mayor Bunts SlalDd.
he did noc know that a! all . Mr . Miller s1a1cd Ihm Mr. Sc:1rs knows they hn\'c never SCCJI a proposal be
knows thal very well. And. Mr. Miller pollllcd 0111, Mr. Scars mmlc lhe comment which Council
assumed ... which is proper. thnl they didn'I respond COm:<11)'. He snid thty IIC\'Cr saw the propoo■l ad
suggcsrcd lhcy lcnvc ii a1 th.it. So. Mr. Miller snid . they arc 1101 prep.ired 10 respond 10 the rropoaL
because they have ucver seen it .
Mayor Bums noted lhnt. in lookmg ;1 1 ii . his mune 1s 1101 011 the d1stnb11110 11 11S1 . He advised thal aJI Ilic
knew about the lcne r ,w-1s wh;11 Mr. Sca rs told 111111 ar1er 1heir 111cc1111gs la st \\eek. that 1hcrc was a a:qllCSl
for a tcuer nud some level of commi1111c111 and 1ha1 n;is all. Mr. Miller smd he muucd 10 go through ii
and he would calm down . He apologi zed. He comme111cd that he docs 1101 1..now wh,11 Council is~ 10.
that he assumed tl"--Y knew the fncts thal 1hcy do and evidcnlly they do 1101. So. he said. he apologizal
Mr. Miller ad\'iscd 1ha1 they mcl with Gnry Sc.,rs :ind 1he s1:irr. which 1hey apprccia lt11 \Cr)' much. Aad
Ibey had the opportunity 10 oiscnss many or 1he issues aboul this developmenl. He Slat<d they showal
some c:oncern at 111111 mcc1ing :1bou11hc melhodolog ics thm lt1vc been lnlked about. as il related to lhc.,ay
1he development was going 10 proceed . 11 h:ts 1101 hi11g to do wi1h \\hether ii is a TOD or no1 . He
emphasized that they ha,,c not worked on an all rel:lil dcvc lopmenl pl:m. 1101 mcnt1011cd the word. ever
since the firs! time 1hc Cooncil suggested and voted. abou l two or 1hrcc times . to proceed" 11:1 a TOO He
commemcd thnt 1he wny it was di scussed is lik e 1h:111 s our ,1!1 ermlll\e. ir~ou want 10 work wn h us. lkll is
what we wnnl to L1o. Thi,I. !1e s.1 id . is 1101 wh ere thcv :ire. 1ha1 thcv !old lh c Council nl the last stud\
session. Iha! they were l0t1% de sirous or t.'OOpu:ll rn t, 10 bring abo.ut a TOD plan . The co11ce:rn lh3t ,llcy
brought about. which Council Mem be r W:11rno 11e 1 ha!i asked about 111 every mcc1i11g :md. he 1101'.XL be has
responded at every mec1i11 g in the same w:iy. and we arc su ll 1hcre :md ii ha s not ch.1ngcd Mr MIJkr'
s1:itcd they nrr. not prr,posing nn :ill rc1:1il. :tc. ii 1s an alternall\~. 1h.1t they shculd decide 1or.i gln n !,d
direction they wm 11 1n b"· That is 1101 wlL rc th ey arc at :ill.
Mayor Bum s said Iha! is fin e. and he 1hoi:gh1 lhal 1s where th e~ all 1ho11gh1 the~ \\Cre
Mr. Miller agreed th r.y arc all I here and s1:11ed 11 1s 1hc1r desire 10 coopcr;11e He mamtamcd 1ha11 !11.: place
1hey lost the ir cooperative u11i111de ,,as that 1h1..'} ass 11111cd all aloug th:u once 11 \\a S decided \\ha1 th cs
would be . 1hn1 they would be the devel ope r or 11 As a1, C\'amplc he asked 1f the City 1s desirous or
contracting 10 do 1hc fill and pay for\\ hatc,cr II ccs 1s to do !he !ill He q111!s11011cd :•t \\h:11 IC\el doc:uJ,e
City wan110 ge l involved . Mr MIiie, aov1 st:d that the) argued ,ehcmcnli~ :11 11 ;e mccung :mj the n .
me! the ne\'I mornin g \\ilh Ms . Li ll er ,rnd Mr Li..:0 11ar~ 10 discuss 1hi s He said he thou ght th e~ h.1d J., c:~
l•atewood Clry "-di
, .... ,,, 19, "" ••ae 2,
Ir: l~nl
I I 11uul
•
positive dia:uuion. I ■ face lMc:)' wen: wider the impression 1ha1 actunlly lhc nalurc of the coUlrJCt mas not
soing IO cloal will, -,et. He said he lalkal 10 Mr. Simpson. th:u Mr . Simpson lcll him a mc•sage and
su~ 1hat a loc o1.-dclai11 blldn "I been workodout. And 111:11 Mr. Simpson rcll very stronsly.1ha1
he UDdenlood wll!' tlloy dillll"1111t11 lhc lcucrln nnd ii wos his opinion ... which Mr. Simpson "ill rapcnd
10 .•. 11111 Ibis WIIS dac rialil dwog 10 do. bccoldc or lhe inronna1io11 they had nl the time . So. Mr . Miller
said, t11ey ha..,,.. rapo.-Mlh a lcuer. because lhcy 1hough1 I hey were prepared 10 cooperate ns soon
u lhcy andenlood whal th&,y...,.. soing 10 do.
Mr. Mill er s1.11td dlcyarc somewhat s11rpriscd 1hn1 the proposal 1011igh1 is for the City 10 be the developer
nnd take on !hat risk :ind do those thin gs And . he added . 1hcy ;ire \'Cry mu ch or-posed 10 1ha1 He pointed
out 1h111h11 has oadu.ag 10 do with whctllcr ii is a TOD or an all rctnil pl :u1. Mr. Miller staled II is their
desire to de\'Clop lhc prujcct a.ad do all the saudi cs llll.'Y want He nolcd lhcy do luwc som e concerns \\ilh
timing. He said they Sal dowa and listed 51\: or SC\'Cl1 of their co1.«ms . Hr. adv ised 1lu11 one of 1hc dungs
1hcy border on . is thal aery time they say something 1tw1 lhcy lhink 1s n lcgilimolc conccm . 1ha1 the~ arc
kind or cast as bemg tqative ood 1gain<l C\~,Ylhing C\'Crybody W:UIIS 10 do . Mr . Miller said he thought
Council could appecialc tbc posil.ion tbcy :m: in in lhnt regard . but they do have some c:-.pcricncc. Lhcy
have developed prapenics bclcn. they lwvc done n 101 or dc\•clopmcn1 He opined thnt 1hc cnnccms the y
show mainly sacmarowad risband COS11. Since the firsl day Iha! this proposal 1\11$ llllkod abouL and
planned, tJ.c COSll ba\-c never gone don11, bul luwc gone up . And. he s.1id. there has nC\·cr been any
indic:Mion or bow they arc pag to be paid for. Mr. Miller advised thnl 1hcy cited 1ha1 as on e,"1mplc or
their conocm at lhc rwa:tiag 3Dd 1hcy talked \'Cf)' urongly abo111 how we arc goin: 10 \\Ork throu gh this
together 10 tr) 10 soh -c th.11 problem He pointed 01111ha111 w:1s 1:·1 . .if)OU ca11·1 do 1111s. le\ us do J 11r
plan . II was how can \\C wont 1ogc1hcr 10 sol"c lhcsc problem s Because. he nolcd . lhcy 1mdcrs1 n11d \\hat
Council wanL, to nccomplish. and 1f ii lS 11ccomplisha blc they \HU ii 10 do it. He reiterated rhc) do ha, e
significana concern. lie said 1.hcy were told ngain before 1on1gh1 . coming 10 this mccling, 1ha1 Cu uncil
would be apprised of"il.11 those oost problems arc to111ght. so 1hn1 whc11 Council made Ilic dcc1s1on or
wh.1t direction thC) arc going. dial ti~) \\OU ld 111 lea st h.t\C SO llk! rcc lmg about that M:i)bc 11g.1111 . he
said. he doesn't know a'hal Cowed h.1 s. m.i~ 7.IC 1hc~ rccc1\ cd 111.11 111 the p.1ckagc. Cou11ctl Mc111 bi.!r
Bmdshaw stated Iha! the) ha,1: oothm g
Mr. Miller a,hiscd ._.. tac)· bad really hoped to avoid ;i confroma1io11. they wanted to work 10, ether. they
wantai to work W.th Mr. Leonard and Ms. Utter . They w:mtcd to proceed in thnl Jin.'Clion aw• 1 to
sol\'c lhcsc probk:lm joia.tly. He opm•~d th.ii they can cnll upon Gnry Sc,us. Bob Sim~son. ~,,in lee Uucr.
Tim Leonard and I.be n:st of the Sl afl . because they all heard 1he111 say tlu11. And . Mr . Miller s1a1cd. H 1s
still their desire. but tbcy arc amc:crncd :ibolll the ability to sol ve ii. He c.xplaincd there rue g:1ps thm have
been Ullkcd Bboul . "luc:h ha ve aot lu ng 10 do ,n 1l 1 buildrng Cily Hall wnh numbers in c.x..:~s ofS 25
million. maybe S28 mtlboo. TilC). he s~ud. ma ke assumpuons th.it all this ground ncc:ds 10 be purchased
bv the user. such as "-al-~ian aod lhc msc hcs. before It is developed . But. he noted . the cas h isn 't 1here
a~ you arc st.ill $5 m.tllJo r. short Mr Mill er s;ud he h:ts hea rd rcpc,llcdl y from di sc uss ,011s. \\here the
Council has s:ud . 1hc bsl fo ur \'OICS . lh :t t th~ wnn 1 10 ;...occcd \\'Ith !his \\ith Ille full vigor and cxcuc,!'lcnl
that they h.1\·e . .1.nd \111--C oced to Jorn 1ogc1hc r 10 do that He said lie lhouglu 1ha1 was great . but he has to
tell Council 1hat he feds II loses J l111l c b11 of c111h11siasm , or lhc poi111 gels ii lillle bit lost when 11 1s tus
belief th !l l the Counor s \'Ole. ,,hen they S.1) go fommd ,11th 11 . 1hat th ey don·: C\CII have . m: Ms
Bradshm\ j ust s.i id . ~ rn fornr.auo 11 aboui the cosl or de fi c11 s So. he s;ud . using the c.-.amplc th;u Coun cil
told 111111 Iha! tl11 s 1s \\h..'ll lh~ \l':ll ll 10 do. lcls ge t on ,,11 h 1\ Well. he :1d, iscd. 1hcy arc read ~ 10 ge t 011
with II, but he 1houg.Ju they ,,ould be SllbJ CCI 10 bcmg crn1 c11 cd e 11or111011 sly 1f th i.:) d1d11 't bnng up the se
issues . Mr. Miller s1.:1ttd th.-u be did not kno,, ho,, Co uncil c.111 m,,kc the dec ision s the) arc 111ak111g
\\i lh out h.wmg a ll 1bos: fa cts ID fro nt or lhcm He S:Hd th:t l :1 11 lhC) walllcd ID do ,,as ge l ,hose 0111. 1ha1
that was the rcison 1lr\ me t "nJ1 s1:1 rT 10 go O\C r nil 1hu~ 1ss 11cs
•
•
•
•
Inglewood lly Council
January 19, 199R
1111 1 tll) t:.ia (
~ 11 I 11, uit,:;j
Page 27
Council Member Bnidshaw staled lhat is whnl she has consistenUy nsltod Co,.. !Mr. Miller SIDied U,cy
would bo happy 10 go through 1hosc things, bu1 th.11 be (eels 10 some cxlelll liq, ba\'C I muzzle oo. He
said they have never been conrrontalional with Ms. Utter nnd Mr. Leonard. tlolJ, nn1cd to work wilh
them . Rlaltt now, he said. Ms. Utter ond Mr. Leonard a,c out lrying to•--.., and maybe Ibey
believe in it and Utat. Is great B01 . he pointed 0111 . they hnppcn to reel it s11cJoi,W lie done dilTcronUy .
Again, he aid, it l111s nothing 10 do with TOD versus 11C11 TOD . II is lbc 1ncdtodology or giving Council
wha1 Ulcy want or finding out whctlacr lh1~ am have whal liq wnnl. Mr. Miller opmed 1ha1 lhe Council
should know that He sold he sits mound and 1iS1cns to people lnlk about 1r:islh _pickup and I• o "~uld like
,o te ll some or them. or h.1ve Council tell some or tltem. 1h.11 we arc $28 iailliu1 _, and see wha1 1hcy
1hink aboul lhnl. He co mncnlcd 1lia1 thal docs noc seem like a group lha1 ii ocaJ illlen:s1cd in 1l1111 1ype or
n projCC1 . Mr. Miller said be ;Jso think,; tbal 1hc cilizcns. if tltty kacw "it:11 •llS going on righl now.
would be appol!ed . He noted 1ha1 he lhougltt many Council rncntlx.ls ran oa·.....,,.,.,., and lherc wen:
quolcs in lhc paper, lhat lhcy were lin:d of studying th11 thing. th.11 when 1hl:J pl in office. or rccloc:lcd .
this thing is going to st11n . Now. he poinlcd 0111. Council is being rcqucsacd t!pClld sir< mo111hs studying
it again to sec if they can get wlml they \\it lll . Mr. Miller s.1id 1hc:,• h.1vc ~1.1ri. Goldberg here . thm !hey
rcc:civcd a le1tcr from Wal•M.1n, which Gnry· Sc11rs rccci\'cd .i copy of. and tbar ,s .a concern. They wam
10 start their building by the tim qu:incr of nc.x1 year. He stated 1ha1 1s uoc dc&ibJc U we 1nk c six months.
and even ifwc come up uith :1 posili\'c answer. we will 001 m.1ke 1hat 1imc Crasme.
Addressing Mnyor Bums. Mr. Miller said lhal one time when he tnlkcd to MIil. 'Witboul pointing
lingcrs ... he noted thal he gol lwul of angry, like he himself go1 just a millllll: ..,_ anchaid thal he '""
tired of being thrc:ucncd. He said Mayor Bums said not 10 tl1rcn1cn l1im nboultibcsc tenants going a\\'ay .
Well . Mr. Miller s.iid. l:1s1 uigh1 in the middle of1he mghl he r-d up thed\diaitton ofwaming ,trsus
threaten and thnt he bcliC\'CS wha t they arc tl)'ing lo do is \\';'Jfll ~ oody Hr-said he told his people that
if n car is aboul to r,m over someone. you beuer ge1 ou1 of 1hc way and he docS&i't thi.ak. tha1 is a threat.
,q
He opined there is a problem here tJ1.1t Council needs 10 n:ati ,..c and rccogn1zcand .AaDd accounlable for
and what can be done nnd how we need to go about gcniu g II done . Again . hesa.sd.. they arc not saying go
build 1hc WnJ•Man :1nd all of1his rc1ail and this th ing isu t going 10 work. &n...hc mairua1ncd.. we arc on
a process thm. in his opinion . six mo111hs later we arc go mg to be not funha a&oug th:an we ;i re right now
as to wh.11 that development plnn is goi ng 10 be. Mr. Miller said he 1old Gary S:ats :ind 1hc slaff th.11 lus
biggest conc:cm is no1 whc1her it has all 1hcsc TOD cl cmc nl s or 1s an all n:l.11li;m>JCCt He advised the
thing he fe:Jrs 1hc most is stnndiug up in fro111 of Council. s,." momhs from IIQw_ and sayi ng now wh.11 Jo
we do. this didn 't work . He s.1id he knows Council h.,s a 90 cL1y hurdle. that 1hmt was pul in because he
requested il. He sugges1ed . at the meeting. th:ll ii be 60 cfays because we m\-c: ~ r:o move along And he
said he asked that 1hey sec ,r they c 111 rin d so mething 0111 111 60 da)S, sec ,r we QLD pass O\'Cr th ese tlungs.
Mr. Miller advised they have had numbers fro111 the di!y they me1 ;11 the CIIC'l: C.rcd.. In n. \\hen he asked
Tim Leonard lo S1and up and say ,,h.111hcy were and he nouldn't. And he ncncd.. Ule'\ arc lh e same or
bigger numbers todny nnd there nrc no more auswcrs. abo ul 1)0 cia~·s Inter. th.in Jdtert: were 1h;1t da~ And
lhcy arc asking Co1111cil to lure I hem and pay 1hc111 a s1g.1111ican1 a111ou111 of ,non~, and 1hey s.1y lhC) need
time to figure nil this 0111 Mr. Miller said he 1hmks \\C ;ire go rng in 1hc ·Mong :urttl1on
Council Mem~r Wag ~o 11cr s.iid th,a t he hns quilc a fc\\ co 111111c111 s He srn1cd lur remembered Skip M:llcr
standing up nnd tellin g Counci l th :u he \\Ould bmld a TOD dc\'elop111cn1. or h1!"1"i!S w fmo r ofbu1ldmg a
TOD de,-clopmcm. and make ii look much like tl11<i plan He said 1h:11 111 his 01-,uum 1bcrc arc a lot of
tJ1ings 1Jmt hnvc to be done wilh lhe pl:111 Mr Wa ggoner po int ed Oi ll 1h;u he dccso·1 thrnk the 1raff:.:
circle is in the nght pl ace . He 1101 cd that Mr Miller \\:JS concerned about l1:1v1~ n roadway between 1he
Wal-Mart and the parkrng lot and he wa s also co ncern ed a boul the loc:.111011 of w.i:: t.b:::ll cr Co un cil
Member Waggoner s1;11 cd that he tho11 g h1 those were th111gs thi1t ha\'c 10 be 3ddr::ssc:d He opined that
tht!rc is some phasing 1hat c:111 be done. ma ~bc th i.: rcs1dc111ial docs11 ·1 co me al tlbis tune and tha1 the
developer. 1hat ,,'ilnl s 10 build a proJcct . ca n tell Co11nc1l those types of tlun gs. Mr \i\aggoner pouucd o u1
I hat he IIC\'Cf did sec a linal rcpon from th e CRNA Compass Group . He s.ud he tbou.g ht lhcy were
balewood Oly Council
J-•ry "· 19')8 ,...,21
I, nu.) 111) hnulftt1J n'4
~ 11 'I un, f
I
suppose to Id us a financial plnn. Ho scntcd he 111us1 hR'.'C :iboul .SO or 60 qucs1ions on this $28.S ,OOO plus
$28 ,000 pmposal nnd he 11 nol in favor of voring on ii 1111y 1imc rc.11 soon . He stated he would like to see,
and he dlologllt ii could be done. be1wccn 1101v nnd rhe Slud)' ,cssion FcbruAI')' 9"'. a proposal from Skip
Miller telli o& us whnr he 11 willing Iv do on gelling us. cucnrinil y 1hc concepr plnn 11•11 we ha,~ before us.
working ink> ii rhc lrnnsit orienled de1•elop111c111 ponion of ii wi1h rho dilTcrcnl uses. Mr. Wag~oncr said
thal If his figures 11n1 correcl, •• he added ii np, rhot !here nn: slill ~ll3,000 squnn: feet of remil nnd
cutcnainmcnl on lhftl pion . Clry Allon,ey Bro11.111nn n:qnes1cd 1hn1 Council Member Wnggor.er clarify
which plan he is lnlklng abour. Mr. Woggoncr ndvi,;oo 11:nl he Is miking nbonr rhc :run Council proposal .
Skip Miller DOied he saw the plnn Mr. WoS1soncr wns holding up , that for heller or worse. U\C Cnllhorpc
plan that Council looked al and gor nil c.,cilcd abour. Council Member Waggoner snid ii "-, lhc oonccpi
that Council could ogroe wilh, that there wus some lh(r'Ctncnt of buildings that Mr. Miller wns oonccmcd
•ith. But . Mr. Waggoner rci1c.~1cd . if he :widcd up the figure s right there is -103.000 square feet of rctnil
Skip Miller nolcd thnf ii is not rc1nil short. th.11 thlll is 1101 tl'C issttc . Th.11 ii is lhc COS( ID bring II about
Mr. Waggontr s.1id that he undc~;mds lh:11 .
Mayor Bums noted 1hnt is one or his q11cs1ions. 1s ii rc1ail sl1on or 1101 Mr . Miller nd,·iscd 1h:u 111s not
retail short at all . Th,111hcrc is some rc1ail ;n 1hcrc. as Mr. Waggoner pouucd 0111. that he feels nuiy be
facing 1hc "TOng way . 11s got 10 be tunlCd . but they cm deal wi .:, 1hn1 . 11 Is not rclnil short
Council Member Waggoner poinlcd out 1tu11 Council pnsscd n rcso:ution lhlll s.1id th :y w,1111cd .ioo.ooo
square feet of rilail and en1er1:iimncnt on lhnt site initinll y. He said we s1ill h .. 1vc ii with tlus plan and he
would like Skip Miller to come up wi1h" proposnl by Febm,1~• 1i 1
• present ii :11 th e slud~ sess ion nnd lets
sec where we arc. lets get this 1hing gorng .
Council Member Hnbcnichl asked Director Simpw11 ir 1hc 11111011111 of 1noncy we nrc 1nlk111g nbou l. !his son
of value added . \'nluc th is. \\ho docs i1...nrr. 1he.sc th i11gs 1li;11 \\Ould llL"Cd to be don e by l.!ithcrthc
developer orso1namc. that they would need 10 be do11 c 1111yway . D1rcctor S1111pso11 s1a1cd 1ha11s correc t
Mi. Habcnichl said 1h:11 wh :11 sh e is hc.1n11g is !hill Sk ip Miller could g1rc Council lh csc answers III a
"'Cek and 1tw:se Olhcr people couldn '1 gi\'C these nnswers . Dircclor Simpson smd no . Ms. H:1bcnicht asked
him 10 C."q>lain thal, bccmsc ii sounds like Skip Miller can come up w11h 1hcsc nnswcrs. bu1 these other
people can't Director Simpson st.11cd !here has been no dcccplion . but 1herc has ob viously been some
misunderstanding . He said he bcliC\'CS 11· .. 11 what we were ll')ing to gel at tonight ,ms the iss ue of control.
He opined 1h.11 tJ,c l'C:lSOn we arc bringing I his up is th:1111 is being proposed. aud no we did not show tJus
cor.:tract to Millcr/Kilchell because we arc slill ncgotialing :rnd working through this and :~·ing to get an
understanding of whether the C11 y \\-:lnt s 10 do this That is why we :ire 1alking nboul 1hi -; issue. because 11
tS s1gnifican110 uudcrsi aud if Co u11 c1I \\:1111 s 1u move forward. take comrol and r,ny for 1:11..-sc ccsts up
front . ~ there nrc questions . Mr Simp so n ;1d\1ised . 1hn1 hn ve to be :mswcrcd . Miller/Kitchell . he said.
has to answer 1hosc smnc quesuons. Whcll•,:r or 1101 \\e do u III lhe s.1 me 11111c frame . th:il 1s a question .
He !.lated the:,• are going to lmvc 10 :i bsor'u some cos1 s 10 get 10 I he s;1mc dircc11011 .
Council Member t-:nbcn ic hl ask ed if Mr . S11npso 11 \\;1 s sug1;:~s 1111g 1ha1 tin s 1s so mctlnn g 111:11 need s 10 he
done anyway Director Simpson ndnscd lhat if Coun cil \\.tilts 10 pr oceed on a 1r.111s11 oric111al
development plan . ii has 10 be doni:. The qucs1i on is . docs Co1111cll \\:Jilt Mill er/K1t chcll 10 :ic1 :1s the
mas1er devel oper and soh-c 1hesc pr!>blems and bnug bn ck some :ms\,crs ,,·11h111 a rea so nable 11111c pc.n od.
~• Fcbru:lr)' 9111 or whc11c\·cr th :111s. I hat 1s one issue . Or doc s Couucd ,,;.i ll th e Cl!}. wllh The Dcc pwaicr
Po int Company. 10 ne t as our owners reps nnd soh·e tho se probl ems
Co uncal Member Hnbcm chl stat ed !h:11 her 1111dcrs1:111dm g w:1s 1ha1 ne h:id be en n ork mg 1ilro11gh llus
tr.1nsit oncntcd development proce ss. workin g ,nth Mlll cr/K11 ehcll. work111 g \\1th the Cuy. ,1 ork111g w11h
different people :rnd pullin g so melhm g togeth er \\here we coul d all come 10 so me ag re ~mc111 She asked .
1fwe were doi1 :g th is Occpw:ll cr 1h111g. gc llm ~ th e aumcrs thi s ,,ay. r.llh cr th:111 gcum g !h e il ll S\\ers the •
l!nllewood City Council
J ■UUII')' 19, 1998
Pace 19
nu, t ,t > IH'k>n-..1:v,1
l , ,.uni.I.
\[ L 11
other way, ir that iu anyway pro.:luocs or climinan:s Miller/Kitchell from doing wha1 they would be doing.
Din:ctor Simpson stoled Ibey have bccu coopcr.u "°' vc,y cll"cctivcly throughout U1i1 culirc process nnd we
have Skip Miller workin& very closely with us. H:.ad,<iscd ahnl Mr. Miller docs not suppon mdv ing
forward wiU1 Olis kil.d er couccpt il•u is being pttpoocd 1onigh1 and he is very :ul:11nan1 about ii , as 1hey
can clearly sec. Mr. Simpson said tlu& he would olAlo Sl) 1hat it is an issue Ihm is being pu1 on the tnbl~.
Council Member Habenicht said she hc:lrs Mr~ 'Ma,onci ·s comments and conccms and sl1c hns <1
commclll and <'Onccm 100. She couuncnicd tbal sbe koow, we have been struggling for a long lime •o
come to th.is pJinl to where we ha ve a shared vis101n or a transit oric-•lfcd development. She said that so
many of lhc kcysto a 1rausi1 orienlcd dc:,·elopmau, ltbat we hove been looki•1g oa , s:iying Ihm we want lo
have, that we bclic-ve Ural we can l121·c ... th:u we lra,-c been told repc:11cdly and rcpe:ucdly and n:pcalcdly
by Mr. Miller and Millcr/Kitciu II 1lra1 tli:tl is not !t:usiblc. thol 'c aot workable , tlt.11\ nol 11mrkc1ablc, 1ha1
doesn 't make SCilSC . And a lot of wli.11 was doucc!trough lhc TOD proccs:.., with national a11cn1ion. was
saying yes it can be done. ii can be made to h:n·c s:m sc and w-: can. show how this can happen . Now , she
sai d. we arc asking lhnt the proof of" hcthcr or n h can be tone should either be made by somebody
who is trying to suppon the process or so mebody ... w has been against 1hc process . She s..1id she would
guess that what would happen is th:11 if 1he m.fonnwJon wen: 10 come from people who supponcd lh c
process, say in 60 to 90 da)·s. uh oh . this is nol gouug 10 wo rk. 1hen we go 011 ;rnd CU I our loses or whatever
that might be and go ult Or w1• wail and let all thac arm,,:rs be gi\'CII to us by someone 1hn1 has been
1clling us au along rh.1 1 ii won't work. coming badt and tclling us ii wo11 ·1 work . She said she is not sure
where her level ofacccpling rn.1 1 would be . She s:wd.. ifllic work has lo be done anyW<l)' and lhe work is
going to be done in a rcpul?~lc way by profcssion.:ik. th..1111 sec: arc11'1 the people 1h.11 arc gC'ing 10 be
gelling ll,c work. they arc ~'ling to be contract ing o.o other peo ple . She asked if she is undersrnnding tkit
right. Director Simpson sla1cd lhal in :ul) C'\'CDI Ll'nt-_\ ha\'C 10 ask specialists. Council Member Habenicht
asked if tJi.a1. in a ,vny. would11 '1 really be lhc w:1y 10 pull 1h1s all together. She said ir II is somet>od) 1h;u
is going to come out and say it lli:11 this rcaJJ) c:in. 1 wod and 1hc11 the developer has th at risk Lakcn away
from him .... )'CS ii can work and I did11 ·1 h .. w c LO pw~, tlus 10 find oul Or if it is 1101 going 10 \\Ork and \\C
end up going wi1h much more gcucr.il rct.a1I 10 wb.u1 was al rc.1 d) done Ms . Habcmc lu sai d it seems to h~r
that might work for cve ,y body's ndvam:.igc She :;;wd she docs 11 ·1 1h ink ..:o nlrol is the right \\Ord. thal th e
issue is who is going to lake respons1b1ll l~ fo r 1.h..: &..-c1s1on She opmed lh :11 perhaps 1h:11 should rest with
1hc Council.
Ma)·or Bums said he feels somcwh:u in agrccmt.~ "'ilh Ms Habenic ht ,,ith 1his. thm :is long as we h.1,·e
shifl.cd from rctaiUcuu:nainmcnt 10 TOD. aod C:VC}'OOC Sttns 10 co1111 11ittcd 10 TOD . 1ha1 Council has 10
ge t these answers to these qucslions about uu.mbets from somebody Whelher ils Miller/Ki1 chcll or
whc1her it is Dccpw"1cr. and who is bcS2 able 10 d,,,1h.1 1 for us . Aud if. hr nolcd , we ha\'e a co ntract where
we could have a deal breake r condi11011 m 111.'l)bc ~O da)S or C\'C II 60 d.l~S we coultl get an a11sw er al 1ha1
time as t;, wheth er 1hi s 1h111g appears to \\Ork or na and then do ,,ch.we :1 scc 11.1rio ,,here Dec pwa1cr s.1ys
it can wo , and Mi ller/K itchell sll!l s.1:s 11 docsn .l Ot1'1ousl:. he po 1111ed 0111. somcbod~ h:ls 10 be in
charge . He said he 1s co ncerned 1ha1 Skip Milla dt.d.11 '1 undcr s1:wd 1h,1 1 \\hal \\as bc 111g proposed 10
Council 1011i gh 1 was an issue of\\h,11 he secs as cocnrol. or \\hc1l:cr the C11 , 1s going 10 be the dc\clopc r in
co ntrol of thi s or not He co111men1cd 1h.1 1 JI scents. to hnu 1h:11 th ere ,,:1s so me bri:akdown 111
com muuica11 011 or u11d crs1:111ding there . 0 :·• he cmw hasu.c:d. the: ha,e 10 ha,c 1hc :.ms,,ers fro1n
somebody here . Ma~or Bu rn s s1n1cd th.al he ,,j§ w'l11ing 10 go ahead,, 1t h Decp\\:llcr to ge l tlec :in s,,crs
and it seems to him that \\e mi ght h:n'C 3 s11u.1110111 of " ho. uhi111;11cl~. is 1he dc,c'.:,pc r ir ,,e say it ,,arks
He noted Council can srill mak e a decision as 10 ... 1110 i i lS
Skip Miller lold Mil)Or Burns 1h;i1 that \,as a ,cry good po1111. Mr Miller s:1id 1n:1:bc Ju: 1s 11 01
aniculating th is ,·cry well . bul th nl he docs11 ·1 ~,.1.!' ,m: probl em \\ilh Dctp\,aler bc 111 g the 1op lc that
spc11d the nc:\I 60 d:.ys or 1Xl da ys deciding 1f this. -»ort..s or 1101. Th:11 . he 1101ed . 1s 111 sp11e ui' the fac1 ih a1
• he dcx.sn ·t ag ree \qth Co1111e1 I Memb,.:r 1-fabc mdu t '"'USC lhC) can ,,ark ,,uh 1hc111 Mr Mi ll er ad,ised
l•alcwood City Council
JONary 19, 19\18
Pas,, JO
h• > (II > houn-
~P"J 'In"
U..l they don 'l am ir Ibey an, lbc poinl people or If Dccpw:ucr"s lbc polnl people. He staled that what be
rally a,n:s aboul. and wbal he 1bo11gh1 was in 1bc ngrccmc,11 ihn1 lms been discussed and been argued
between them, is who is going to develop ii once you decide 1hls. He no1cd lhcy havcn•1 seen the
agrcel'\C"nl , so they don'· know wh t1I is in 1hc agrcc111c111 in 1hn1 rcg.1rd . He snid he doesn't cue if Council
says 1~...:y have 1hc prim.,ry ch.irgc irthcy wn11110 cnll in 60 d:-.ys :ind ~y what you h.1,-c decided , that is
fine . UCouncil w:ints Millcr/Kitchcll 10 coopc:rntc nnd give 1hcm inp111 wluch t!~ lmvc asked for. lh:u. tS
fine . Mr. Miller advised 11ml lhc-y hnve 1old lbcm, rcpc.11e~!y. Ibey would c1»per.11e during &his period al
time . He sai,' he is very much concerned . ns he has s.1id. that In 60 dnys Council \\ill nol h,wc the ans'\l'CI".
Council has lmd 111c1ny, nmny dirTcrcnt periods . a11d he s.1id, he doesn't w,1111 to 1rncc the history about
promises 10 have answers. such as . leis just finish this Cl ;aion study and we will h,1\'C 1hc answer. He
nc<cd we nego.i ntcd a plan lhnt 1hcy liked and we liked ;111d we were ready 10 go and then cvcryhod)'
changed their inind. He pointed oul we have been dcla,\·cd. lhcrc h.,s been MOA ·sand pcrfonning ans
ccnlUS to stD? this and Council :ms looked and :ookcd nnd looked . Hr. said in his op1111on . :md he may
gain some credibility or lose some ifhc is right 01 wro 11g here . but 111 61l d.1JS Council \\011 '1 h;wc any tdea
1fyou can do thi~ project or 110 1. He cmphasi i'.cd 1ha1 he ,s \'cry ,cl)• conccmr.d nbou1 11
Mayor Bums comme111cd Ihm . as he s:lid i:,1rlicr. Council needs tool s. we need 10 hn,c nn!>,,·crs 10 these
questions, because they c.111 ·1 m:ike these dcdsious III a vacuum .
Mr. Milter noted that as Tim Leonard sa id. 111.111y or the !lungs 1hey arc reviewing are 1.hings that we !la\-e
rcviC\vcd, He said as Coun~il might remember. and 0 ;111 Brotzm;rn \\~ls very S1rongly involvt-d 111 this.
t1131 wl\cn there were negotiations wi1h Equilablc. Iha! the ~irking giirngc needed S2S S million of repair
or $2S million, some number like lhnt. And Ihm is whal we held over Equitab;e 10 gel 1he de.,! done
Now Council is hearing 1ha1 this projecl rn :1)' w1Jrk. )'OIi m:i:• be. nble 10 s.we the g.1rnge Mayor Burns and
Council Member Habenicht s.1id 1'1;'J t is not wh;'I! they :ue hrar ing . Mnyor Bums said nol the whole
structure . Mr . Miller agreed nol the whole s1n1cturc , b111 a signific:1111 porti on orit Council Member
Habenicht staled 1ha1 is what Mr Miller s.1id all al o11 ~ Mr MIiier s:1id no 1hc~ dijn't. 11t.1 11hcr 1old
Council 1h.1 1 they tried lh,1 1 and \\hen 1he~ c.1mcback ;md showed Council thal lh~ could11'1 do th:tt and
s.,1owcd 1hem a new pl:in that ~01 rid or 1h.i1.
Council Member Nabhol i' s1:11ed that \\Cre she gi:ts rc:1.I fmstratcd here is 1h;1f she gets rcsc111ful when
she gets into I his altack mode . Sl1c said sl1c "as elcc 1c. lr~. •lie ?(Opie a11d she re;1Jly gc1s rcsc 111fu/ when
Mr . Miller puts her in a posi1iot1 \\here she docs 11'1 knr-•, ,,hal she is 1hi11king or \\h:11 she is representing..
Bottom line is , she s.1id. that s:ic s.1ys the old anger. nll this s1ulT. She asked Mr . Miller wh;H 1':( can give
Council. \\ hat kind or subsidy he nr:ds 10 be de, elo pe r or ,,h:11 Council wan1s Mr Miller s.1id 1he same
s1:bsidy thC) need . Ms Nabhol1. ::1·11t~d 1h:11 Mr . Mill er spccilicall~ IOld Council . at the llli..-Cllllg or
December 9th or 15•h. wh ellC\'Cr 11:,11 1:1cc1111g \\aS. 1h:11 he could do :, phase dmc11 tr.111 s11 oncn 1ed
dc,·clopment proJCCI. Mr Miller s:ud lie docs11·1 bcl1 c,c 1ha1 1s ngln Ms . Nabhol1. said 1ha1 1s wha1 she
h.15 a problem wilh and she would l:i~e 111111 to tasl-. 0 11 1ha1 Mr ,\l tllcr told Ms Nnbhot, she c:1 11 tak e him
10 rask on an)lhing she \\ant s. but he insisted 1h·11 h~ 1old Co un cil :rnd 1old lh c staffthal they c::11 1101 du
an)1hin g tlte) ca11·1 do . He cmph as i,cd 1hc~ c.1111101111:1kc the m11nbcrs go a,,ay Council Member
Nabhol z slated 1ha1 Mr . Miller ca 11 ·1 com 11 11111 ica1~ and he can't agree and he co mrs III Ill an :iuack mode
Mr. Miller saic' 1ha1 is righ1 . because this is the firsl 1i111c 1ha1 lh cy \\ere a11 nc kcd. He s1a1cd I hat if Ms
Nabholz had ~ccn invol\'cd in thi s process. thal they i1a\C been !:ere for lhrcc )Ca rs Ms Nab hol 1. staled
she h.1 s. th;1 1 she lm s been 0 11 th e 01hc r s1d<.: JIISI .,s long ~1r ri.tdler ~la ted !h ey ha ,e tx.-cn here for three
~c.1rs ;md they i1avc 1101 :1skcd for ouc 1>e1111~ to do one llnng He pointed out th ere ha s nol been one thing
1hey s.1 ~d lh.11 hasn 't 1akc11 pla ce . He main1.1111cd ;hat th e rc:iso11 th e Equuablc agrcc1111,;11 1 is in place is
bcc.111se of their idea to gel il dou c H.~ sta led he 11ci;o1ia1ed lhal de;1I. Ms Nabholz ;.11d )OU 11c~o 11atcd
1ha1 dea l'! Mr . Miller s,aid yes he did ;,nd he belic,cd that D,111 Bro1 zma11 k110,\s 1hat and th e peop le !h.11
arc here knO\\S th.ii. The thin~ \\as al a s1alcma1c ti.Ir r-..ld lc r 1101ed \h;11 1hC) sat al a mccttug ,,here
Tom Burn s was o,·cr acres~ 1hc Sir .1,;1 and said aka~ \\C arc rc;1d~ to ge t s1;1rted We h;1d a press
1
•
•
•
•
bsltwood Cltr c..11
J1au•ry 19, 19'1
Pace JI
1,1111,.) !11) l,11 " "Ill J
Ki'l' ,r 1111 o,I
confcn:rr.c ..... an: n:adr to Cd Slanal. II Slopped , He said to Ms , Nabhol z lhnt ii is lime 10 dos.,::••
11tad<in11, h is ~ 11> I .llC -frank ditcuosion s ailoul wha1 everybody is doing. Cow,eil Member
Nabhol z advised Mr. Miller th3I 11e hns to re,H1.c where they co111c from too :ind whut tl1 c)' represent and
what the) W:LDt to see CJIIICf tbm: and the aa:oun1abili1y 1hcy need oul there . Mr . Miller s.1id th:11 was fine .
1h11 she can aaaclt Ilia• 11,c WIIIIS and if ii is do oblc 1ha1 is grc.11. He ,:aid he has never said . nnd 11 he
did he -.Id RUlla it.llll lie c111r101 do• plwc dcvelopoticnl of a TOD , w1ymorc dwn Mr. Lconu d or
Ms. Ultcr caa. Ms. --sbc rcca.llcd thal Mr. Miller snid he could bring in people, lhnl housing
wasn 'I bis.,.,. of cxpalilt. llul llull he could bring lhosc people on board , Mr. Millerslale<I they said
1ha1 if Council Im a pla,11111100,u. lhcy ,.;11 ,101 do the hous ing. dw1 1hey will bring so,ncouc on boJrd .
Ms . Nabhol z sud. ibat lie is om>' ,nying. lhal 1hc plan u,11 be sn1 down and saw 1he conc:cpl , tlml ii docs
not wort for him. She &Cd if 1h.11 is correct . Mr. Miller stated 1hnt it is 1101 n mallcr of ii not working
for them. that be las dad:111 as •ilcthcr cc:oaoanic.1lly it \\Orks for Council . He mni111nincd tli-1 1 is all he
said . Ms. Nal>holz 51.icl slic agrees ond 1h.11 is " hy they di, usscd pl.isc driven project. Mr. Miller
rcilcr:uc,1 dw he bas comcerns as 10 whc,hcr phn sc solves tile nroblem . he do:sn ·1 know whether it is
do!lbl"!. Ms . Nabhalz sllllc said lhcn Y.ha1 he &S s:vin g is he J01,.. 11 ·1 know if it is doa ble . Mr . Miller sla ted
he docs not bow "'illlilaB Council \\i d C\'Cr get Ihm done or he will ever gel it done or \\ ucthcr Mr.
Leonardo, Ms. Ulla' •iiU aa-get it C:onc. Mr. Miller said th ey ha\'e serious qu es 11 ons. :id\'1scd LJ-..1 1
whr?: he mc:t with !1:14' and Mr. Simpson. tla.lt Mr. Simpso n si1id th at C\'ery concern he lu1d wa s a \'a!id
oocand hcs.ud lbty wc,e coaccmcd abotJl 1hc smnc lhings . Mr. Mill er s.1id 1hm 1 ... li e po int . tha l tJ1c)
don 't bow whaJ we C11Dclo.. Council Mca11bcr Nabhol2. asked if ii is tmc 1ha1 Council ca n bok 1u those by
the 5111 of Febnluy. m lbck and white. She as ked if thm is correct . Mr. Miller s1a1ed Council ou, ha\'c
them 1onigbtas they Die put them in wri1 ing. Ms . Nabhclz said ok ~y. ,ri ng 1hcm on .
Mayor BumsSbllal Lt.a ab\iously Mr. Miik.r hns done research on 1hi !. as he h:1s la id Counci l nt.1 11).
many times. m;ic lie basdoae this bnckgrowxl a nrt ii nppears to him lh w ii \WlS basically on til e orig.ma.I
co ncept of cn..cna.u:imcmt and n."1 ail. He asked Mr Miller wlU11 l1c has ilO\\' 111.11 is a TOD focused analysis.
LJuu we arcn 't 1ry111g to get through P.,ccpw:llcr, He no ted lie ,s con fused nbo ut \\here Dcc p\,alcr and
Milcr/Ki1ehcU arc u1 lk:ir an.a Jis of the TOD. Mr . Mill er said he ,,:wted to II)' 10 cxpl a:n 10 Co uncil
that it has nothing t;.t dD •1.lb TOD or all retail . He adv ised I hat !he condition of tJ1 c park1118 g.1rage and
tl1c ability to save &L •• ck garage docsn ·, know whethe r II is a TOD garage or an all retail g.u agc ... s.-.i Lhc
issues and ~ics ~\u\·c m.1de about 1bc garage 1"1,c notl1i1 1g 10 do \\1 th TOD or nothing to do wi1h all
retail. Mr. Mitlc:r !la= ilia! they do ooc. believe that any p;1rt of tilC garage is sm able . The amount of din
that li:as 10 be Lin:iugi• 1:1 t "J 1i ll the si1c is 1hc same \\hi:llic r it is a TOD pl:in or a plan fo r all rct;,.ul . He
pointed out th.l l lhcy ►.ivc st.uc',jcJ 1h is. ~-1r. Miller Slnt c:cJ ll rn t lhc 1hin g:; th e~ ha\'C stud ied. and the.re arc
ma.'\y. many IIIOl'C taaa uae,-N,vc studied. of enginee ring. with Y.'alCr and sc,,cr. arc 1101 dcpc11d c111 upon
whether it is TOD o, .all retail . He sa id II is 11<,1 likc .,.wcll you studied nil rc lai l nnd now we arc goi ng to
go study TOO. He ilU'l-.d thl-rc nrc so me di fTcrcnccs , but lhc base lhings arc m;rny of 1hc s.1111c an d t..hc
same conccms they U\-'C b:ld all along aboul the ccono1 11 1c \'i :ibi lit y of a prc..J<'C I. He rc 1tcr:11c:d the) do 11 ·1
ce nter on whether u e, TOO or not TOO . TI1cy hm·c 1101lu 11g 10 do\\ Hh 11 .
Mayor Bums asked ~r.r M:llt: 1f 1hcy crn share lh nl. ,f 11 1s propnr 1:10 1\11. Mil ler s1:11 cd 1hc) lmc
shared aJI of th11 ml& Slaff. they h:l\'c gn cn stnfT C\C~lhm g. Ma)or Burns ;1skcd 1f lhcy c;111 shoncn tl us
up by sharing tluc. 1nfmn .:1110 11 or 1f we h.a\c ,1 p;iral)·S1s of a11a l)s1s /\lr Mille r .. a,d that Co u11c1I Me mbe r
Bradshaw Slld a ICJSC'c ago ... and he cocm11c111cd th,11 may be 1!11 s 1s11·1 a conc1.:m of Co u11 c1l. but the\ ilTC.
quire fr.mkJ,. ~cd by 1t. .. 1h .. 11 the re is so me agrcc mcn1 bcl \\CC II )O ur co 11sul1 :1111s. fo rgc1 u~. ·1ha1
ha\'C dmcn Lhc DU..IDbcrs 1h:a t sh ow a S2~ 5 :nill ion shon fn ll . Mr . Mill er srn 1cd Ihm if ,111 lhc ground 1s
hought up fron L tJ,, Wal --l\l:;.n and the Mdlcr/Kilchcli dc\'clopcrs. tl ,c rc is some S5 1111ll1on ~ho n fa ll thal
thr.-.· still doo "t b.n'I! :ID ~lana11 on for . lflhc Co 111 1cil has 11 ·1 hea rd th al or seen it. he sai d. 11 •;n be
Co~ncil wiU gh -c thom some lime lo SOh'C II . Hi: s.11tl lhal is ri11 c . nm}bc th ci'C arc Sv 111c \\,l)S I~ so lve ii.
t.·Jt Council ar. lc:asl cn:ight 10 kn ow it cx1s1s. Ma yo r Burns opined 1ha1 1hcy ;ire all aware 1ha1 the 1111mhcrs
do11 't c.xacd y wort an dus po1111. He s;ud he docs 1101 think th al is ne\\
lnJlewood City Council
Juuary 19, 1998
···•Jl
,, n 11111,1
l. >:~q
Council Member Bradshaw s1n1cd 11-,1 she hnsn'I sccn 1hc numbc11. lhM '11c: Mt -co111ilauly asking
for numbers and she has yc1 lo sec numbers.
Mr. Mlllcrconilncnled lhnl this is wl1crc II gets confusing. He said Counal M.-•~ is shaking
her head thnt she has seen the numbers nnd knows them nnd Counci l Mc111bcr Bhii:.:!l haw U )'S sbt bun 't
seen them . Mayor Bums said they hcnr 1hn11hc1t is n number. lhal docsn "I -'i.. M< Miller ukC\I
Mayor Bums if there isn 't n difference between we rue S2 or $3 million shon or• attSlS uuJlion shon.
Both arc numbers. but, he nskcd , isn't !here a dirrcrcncc. He sai d isn't there a di m Council "s
concern nbout the likelihood of goi11g fonvnrd . ir it is one versus the olhcf .
Mayor Bums s>1ggcs1cd lhal maybe 1hcy cou ld hcnr from Tim Leonard. 1tbo<11. Oilier lk:aA 2 -.r )'OU
arc shon. how Council gels lo lock ut numbers. period .
Mr. Lcon.1rd stated 1hey ,uc clc.1rly nol in nny co111pc1i1ivc role wi th Skip Miller a1 all. ffe saud t~ Mc
not coming in as devclnpcrs , pt11 iu L'(Jui1y money a11d tnkc nny kind or development a-..y from
Miller/Kitchell . whatsoever. Mayor Bums slated 1h~ we re !old that the firsz time t"='.!, met "i lh CRNA
and Compass. up in Conference Roo111 A. wl1c11 lhcy lirsl snl down wilh us. They £lid tltier "ere not
to push :mybody out, we me 1101 here 10 1nkc over . Mr . Lco uard said exactly .and tha.r lllctr ro le 11a.n t.J ns A
volunteer cffor1 . as a community professional. 10 be ab le to s:1y. can a concqM like lluswori: al a sue ltkc
this . And dint. he s.iid. wns lhc whole iss ue . And 1he11 there wos cmpJoymcut after lb to be nbJe to
say ... finish ii. take mI idc:i, hire Cnlthorpc nnd h.1 vc a TOD guru look • 1h,s and set ia 10 2 tramil
oriented deve lopment pl :rn . Mr. Leonard 111.imtaincd lhcrc is no qucsti t.m . tha t ,hey h.J,\,c neve r disagrcc.:d .
that it go t tougher to implemcnl .. m,d . he s.iid. Mr . Miller knows this a. well :u we cb p r • from an
idea to a concept. 8111. Mr. Leonard s:iid . the first thing he wnn 1cd to say was tkal &1~1.nre new in any
competition . He st:11cd !hill Iheir agrecmen : wilh lhc Ciry . as we rliseusscd . as an ow~·s rep. ts 10
represent the Citv so thal ~·ou get lhc best prOOucl . ror the lo,,cst :unoun1 or money. imDC s.hortes1 wnc
frame. always . He s.1id Council could s:Iy 'Dnight . we w:mt lo do il tt1a1I dcYclop nlCIIG .and \\C wanl nn
own::r's rep making sure that subsid y gnec; down 10 ,.era . He s.iid we \\011ld ~ on 1lw:..snme udc ns s:iyiug
we :trc going to work togc1her to be nblc 10 get ii 1haI wa~. b11I Co111lc1I Is gorng 10 b:Jt-ie tlIc k"°"'icdgc or
cx.,ctly whnt tl1c iss11es nn.:. So th:11 . he s.iid . is 1l1c firs t issue. so a11y1lung 1n lhat agre:mcn1 . there 1sn·1
any hnplcmcn1n1ion s. we rnlked 11bo111 before. how ii ge ts implemented .. we hJ'WC nc:ver "!presented 1ha1
we wen: going 10 be any pan of Ihe impl emen1 :111on. 10 co me 111 :111d be a threat He nc4t=i that Slop Miller
has raised concems lo mnkc sure tha1 the implc111ent a11011 would go 1hc beg way for !!.a: Chy :ind
Millcr/Kitehc'.I as pos~ible, :ind Mr Lconnrd ad\'i scd thal !hey snid 1h.:i1 is absolutely scmcdung th~•
would cross when lhey get there . Because . he s.i id. 1hat is p,1n of th e development pbm..1ha1 is how II gets
implemented . Sons 10 whether Council has or hasn't seen 1he agreement. ii ls an awru::r ·s rcprcsenrau,-c
agrccmcnl, just like you wouldn ·1 sec lhc ngrccmcnl that 1he attornC) would hire :mod!tcr -a.ttomcy to
rcprcscnl 1hem in any other negoti111io11s. Mr. Miller s1a1ed you nl so wo uldn '1 be ask:a! to corn:ncnt on it
and be embarrassed by why we did11 ·1 co111111c111 on it either Mr . Leo na rd said 1l1a1 how. ~ou comm ent 0 11
being able to work wi1h :111 a,,ncr·s rcprcscnl ali\'C is lhc comm ent lh;II Mr Mdlcr s:udl!hcfon: th.11 he
would coopcrnte wilh an owners rep. period . Mayor Burns acknowled ged 1h.il that comJd t\:n c been a
misunderslanding up here . He said he \\:IS 1101 sure ii 1s c,·cn fa ir 10 ask 111111 10 c:om me:nt Rig.ht Mr
Leonard s.iid . numbers . numbers go. II wcnl fro11, S2X 10 Sl~ 111 1ll 1011 . 11 \\C lll 10 ${, m1 on evc0 eta~ he
runs a new spre ad sheet :ind ii dc pc 11ds 011 whal ~our asrn mpli ons arc ns 10 uhat gocs.mno II He s:ud he
wa 111ed 10 nddress some of these repons . Mr Leo nard e-.p l:1incd IhaI \\hen 1h~• ncn: UII the CR..i~A
process th ey were 1old we did11 ·1 have lhc time as vol1111I ec rs 10 rc:1d lhrou gh a s1aclc. olf g uff. we had Wf'\
lilllc. wcjusl came in with id e:i s :md s:ud lei's sec ho,, \\C c.1 11 imp lc 111en1 1hcm . All Ult: ,,'..I~ 1hro11gh 1h...:
process . illl we llenrd . ;111d he s.1id he 1;1lked to RTD . W:ilk cr/Parkm g and M11i cr/Ku chl!lil. was 1ha1 th ev all
s.,id the p;1rki11 g dec k h:i s go! lo go d0\\11 . there 1s 110 sah,1gcabl c 1herc An d the plant •c came up ,111h .
he said . a0cr th ey drove: throu gh :md said !h e~ co11ld11 ·1 beli eve: 11. 1s. let's ha,-c a pbn someh ow s..1 ,·cs
•
•
•
•
......... CllyC•acll
...... ..,..,,1991 ~»
1 tru l ~h) L , I ul
tt,1VJ. I ,, •• 1114 1
~ r.4
dlis plllriaedem. Mr. L.oonard 1111cd 1h01 sure cJ1ouw11wo ,vccl<aa&O, \1'!'8•1 all kind£ofpqrkiogaudics
-dllll we 11re inlo 1bi1 course and"'"' C8"11&b whol dqf,s Wal kcr/l!arj<i~g say ... 11.11 we csti1~111J: 1ha1
Cloe ii a uscllll life or al lcoa 1cn years, Well . Mr. Leonard staled. we had s.1id five i11 ours. So ii is in
tlra'c. He advised 1hcy were driving with Mart in and Manin, the engineers, lhc same engineers that have
--'ill& 011 lhisprojccl ....._, lwo "'CCI<' .iao ... Rick Kohm nnd Chuck Es1crly .•. U1C)' were all in
111::car ad lho local archl1eo:1, whkh 1hcrc ,1n sn'1 ever been II lotal arclull:Q on 1hc projec1. 1w said you
tmw dlcft bu &Ol lo be a woy lo be able lo nl:lkc lhis parkins d,;ck work. And Manin ond Martin. us
lk:!1 lall<al to 1he archi1cc1. s.1iu. you know "!l.11. llocre is a fiOh allcrnaiivc . In all our plans 1hcrc were
t:.r altc:rnat.ivcs. but maybe there is a fiOh one . Maybe we can use this as a form and save sc,mc of this by
pmr"'I -slab on top. He poinlcd ou, 11 i, a whole now idc:l IIUII has nc\'cr been prcscmcd before and
ck issue: comes in ii when you sny "'' rc.1lly w:uu to make 1his work, we wnnt 10 push the envelope . stay
up 10...-al work harder and we wam • couple or volun1ccrs 1loa1 loavc said we lhink 1his is doable , we
ra11y -IO make it work. Mr. Loonard stoled 1hey have worj<cd wilh Slr.ip MiJtcr 1hc whole way and he
IIIIS boeD ver,, supp,rtivc Uoc whole 1i111C, or being able 10 say wh~I do you need and how con we mokc ii
..t. Ht a1dcd that Mr. Miller has been very rcalis1ic. lh:11 he's snying he 1hinks when you get done. ii is
flCllJQUII IO work Md we hnvesnid . ~ 1hink wl1~1 "cgcl do11e 1hcrc is a wny to OC oblc 10 mak e ii work .
Now_ Mr. Lcourd poia1cd ou1. 1h,11 one of us is going to be riK,hl and one is going to be \Hong 1111d that is
°"'!J. 1h11 is a profcssioual i'5Ue tha1 we enn ¥• solve. Th~ issue is arc )'OU going 10 lake ii and be able 10
rmke it -.ork. He no,:cd when 1hey had the ir di5CUSS101u 1:15' week . and then taler when they met the ne·
.-..g. M said an owner 's rq, '""'Id be grcal for lhe Cily . Because. he ndviscd. we could drive 10 Ll .<
isls and 11it il and work 1oge1hcr to come up wilh n plan . bcc.1usc no maucr wh:11 the plan is its prob.1bly
oa1 going to look like 100°/4 retail dcvclopmcm and il, nol going to look like 1hc concept plan. BuL it 15
...., 10 be a plan tkn our charge )1115, 10 mnkc ii work wi1hou1 a bond issue. 10 make it work without
llllsidy from the taxpayers . He st :11cd 1hcy ca n 111;1kc lluu work and the numbers go all up nnd down. and
1k IDhations arc 1ough. 8111 we were going 10 work together 10 be :iblc lo do ii. So , Mr . Leonard
a,lainof. lhcir issue 1s not a conr,onlmi onal one. 1hcir issue is nOI wluat arc we going to do and who 1s
goim& to do iL 11w onJy issue Coun ci l has i11 front of them. he opined, is arc you sayi ng this is going to be
a impossible task, we arc not going 10 tnkc the risk in 1imc or money, so therefore scrnp ii . lets go . stnn
ia • · the de\·doper's agreement and be abl e to do ii. And you still h.avc that time frame in Lherc that
yoa dml"l know. we don 't know and Skip Miller docsn '1 know, wh.11 is going 10 be the subsidy rcquiro:I
b that plaa. Eilhcr way. he pointed ou t, you ar~ go 1ntc, 10 be paying some mane). fronl. middle or end
amd it is just a mauer ofwhnl do you wnnt to gel ror )Om money in today's 1imc and in the ru1ure . And.
be Sllid. !h:11 is reall¥ what is in fr<MU of Council. He staled 1hey have no beef wi1h Wal•Man, Skip Miller
Ol'aaybody cl5c . Mr. Leonard :1dviscd the) said they ,,ould use K11chcll . He said at firs1 they were going
to pal toFC11cr o team tlaat did not have this co11trne1or 011. because this co mr:i ct or is in Califonua :1nd we
S3lild •'C '4-aJJI som ebody. just like we wnlll a local architect. we wmll a loc.11 co ntr.lClor and we can ha ve
nu:ribcn.. A1 :d Skip Miller s.1id we were 111.iking a mi s1:1ke. 1h111 they l1.1ve don e lot s of \\Ork aud crunched
lo6 m numbers and Mr. Leonard s1a1cd Ihm they :agreed he was right. They arc gomg to be on. c,dds arc.
thae way "-c arc going 10 implement it. for wha1 is best for the City . is 10 h:we one contractor do it all . so
-e wan& 10 work ,~i th them He sai d Counc il \,ill sec 0111heir shcc1s. the pe.iplc \\C uork H11h 11re Mill er
Ondopcncnt. Ki1chcll Constructio11 . And that is pan or 11. so 11 isn 't a co nfro111 auo11a l issue until 11 stans
1a ~ up aDd sny well these guys can do somctl1i11g dilTcrc11t 1ha111hcsc guys. He ad\ iscd they wouldn 't.
tu. •itcDCYCr 1!1cy do an)1 hing rh :i t !1.1s rc1ail. Skip Miller is ri gh1 there . Whether 11 ,s mee1111g \\ith Sony
or WaJ•Ma n or whatC\·cr i1 is . it is being :1blc 10 design a lhing I lull fits properly . Then: is no question . he
Sl:3tCd. th31 II is difficuh \\hen you put a Pe ter Ca lth orpc in 1hc middl e of it. because 11 is laug h, beca use he
po:dlcs the envelope on10 a n ex1rcmc 1ha1 makes it hard er. Our 1111111bcrs weut up signifi c:uuly a11d the
w~"'i 10 JOl\'C II were sjgni fie:uuly lougher . He ad\iscd they wrcs1lcd wilh bei11~ able to S:I) ... le t's be yo ur
owner's rep. bu1 not c..-cn pul a Peter Callhorpc on lhc team. Bccuusc . he s.1i d. \\C do11 ·1 h.1 vc lhc 11111c or
the 1DOOC) to be nblc 10 drive mid gel 1hc price am l 1hc results th:11 ,~c \\:11 ·1. So til :u is pan of 1he iss ue
~ .are '-'TCSlling with and. he s.1id. even Ski!' .\:;11cr had m,1dc sure we c:111 have them. but co 11trol 1hem .
Pan , ,!"'bat an owncr ·s rep docs is get thc:111 doW11 a11cJ co ntrol his 1i111e :i11d his dollars. He rci1cra1cd 1hal
ID<wood City c , .... 11
Juuary 19, 1918
PapJ<I
t ltu, ) (t l l11J11,r,llfl.f
1-wvr H ,,~mu.L
fl 'I
!hose on, the lhiap they an: -ilng witll _. 1k _., ..,..a,cnt. wllidl Council ... in ftonl at
!hem. II !heir best shot II be, 'J alile lo Ille ID ......... ym ~ llave 10 do a proper due dlUgence,
!liking II tmm one 10 anolht.. and being lllle to pw c-:11 a sa lime.
Mayor Bums said 1hcn 11 lhal potnl )'1111 an: • ..,... who die actmJ cleYelopl,r is. Mr. Leonard aid
no , II Is almos1 the o,,po,;lle. They an:......., ha..,-. 11 is always goins to be the pcnon who ia
Slnndlng riglll n""110 UI, worldns witll UI Ille ..... ...,tbftlagh ... Mlllcr/Kitohell . So. he poinlcd OUI,
lhcy hnvc never m.1de any assumption or U--.,bl aayd,iag olherwiSIO.
Connell Member Oam:11 commen!Cd that he 1111 a lac al qucslions on lhc COOlr.lCI. bu1 pulling those
asi dc ... one of lhe thlnp it says Mr. Leonard wiD llrilog • the table in !his pn,cess, isa ldter of ln1cn1
from !he general merchandiser flom the cim. He....,. .,.,.., he will do dial without. ill csscnce. lhc
de\'Clopcr. Mr, l.coMrd advlacd they do ii will, Ilic ............ Council Wll'AI !his pn,ducl done and they
wanl IO make IUrt lh.11 you M\'C a plan that "'i I I J ❖ lli other words you -rd baYe the U1C11
1hn1 would 11and up and 5.1)' •. .I can !Ike lliol lilc. «ina-11 • dlal time, in !hat conditloa, 1,r Iha! price,
Inside lhal dc\-elop1ncn1 . I will do lhaL T!Ja(. lie ....... ii wbll a lett<r of intenl says. lfe said Skip
MIiier Is righl lhert do ing 1h11, and Mr. Miller Im .-al"llle ldlm of inlcnl hinr,11. Mr. Miller has 10
sny I will 1llke nil 1l1c rtlllll . I will buy all Ille fellil ...._, will pay !hat price. for !hat kind of sile, for Iha!
kind ofrtlnil , In 1h31 kind of lime fn,n,e_ Ho said ;r,._ .. a piclurtwilh parplc tt=OII iL 1h11 says !his
11 a grcal de.ii, bul you haYe the Wal-Mans dill S1J wny Illa! is 1'W yean behind ,cbcdule, so don '! look
10 me 10 go I n1idc that prcuy rod box ... then ,-IIIR •iplan. So the plan ii. Mr. 1-nl advi"'1. 10 be
nblc 10 sh down whh each one of the usct1•-,,-•:,o,, make !his road do !his. or give ma more
p.irtung l1c rt , 100 mnny trees, wh01 aboul lhcaMriar iamck ofthc trash containers. All that llldf, Iha!
is Ili c kind or stufl' c\'ery dc\'<:lopcr docs in the.......,_
Mayor Burns IISk cd If IMI ..... what he .... Sl)ing. ..... Ire .... saying. ,. .. gel lhcse people IOjltlhcr, we
gel 1hcsc lcucn ... and !lull is what 1hcy mcan by a..........,. plan . A plan lhal they an: all 1ogether
with , 1h.11 c:m ju,t be implemented . Mr. Leoaanl ---is it exactly, boc.UISO walking oat or the
dc,·clopnicnl plnn meet ing. which is the~~,.., say !his is done •lOW and it works and ii is a
ze ro subsidy and,.,. like it. It is not exactly liltic tWs. ii:4oesn't have the par! lbs big. !he uafflc circle is
moved 01'tr hcrt nnd some orthcse th ings.,... caip. k he noted. you t m go down the list and
Sk i Miller st.i nds up and says I like iL ii •Gib few me. I can alford ii and the •umber>.., okay. Wal -
Man says , ii works fo r me . 1hc tim ing is proper, die Cily. all !be bond gu;-s sai the building works for n,e ,
RTD says ii works fo r me. 1hc rtSidcntlal clc\dopcr ""!S die pl,ac ing ®rks. } JI Iha! "1>rks and ci'trybody
s.,ys ii is implementable . Then 1hc CObncil er...-says.. r 11on·1 like it bccaus, thc park isn '1 bis enough,
so forget 1hc whole thin g and lets go 10 ""11CWJ!g else. or !hey say lots go de ii.
Cou nci l Member Brndsh.iw nskcd Mr . l..eOllatd if all tk people listed in thc conllllcl. as far as 1eam
members . arc on bo.1rd \\'il h him :11 thi s momeat Mr Leonard said just about. Ms. Bradshaw said just
about. Mr . Leo ,mrd noted 11 nl 1hey have had --•o try and sec who 1hey nccdcd and all the ""rk
1hey needed done . TI,cy m,.1 wi 1h Man in and MMIJII. dlftM, out in the field . and !he)· have done a rtpon
alrcndy. Mr. Leonard note d we sny ... we ll caa we llUpropo<al fro m you ... and they say for whal,
exact ly. To invcsiignlc the finh proposal. to imalyzt cr:,n: samples . lo do structural intcgrily ... whal exactl y
do you need us to do . And . l,c said , "''C 1old Lbem we ckllt ·1 know yet.
M:1yor Bu ms asked if 1hesc nrc the s.on,c l ltbc:oncracmn Skip "11illc r wns proposing . Mr. Leonard said he
thought most of 1hcm were . :,in, Skip lut1 ~Mcd •d Marun and Manin. bul he didn 't th ink he has wi1h
Walker. bul 1hcy used lh< s:,n,c rcpon He SIMI he dda'I tlunk tra,spona1ion Sl ufT has been don e. Mr.
Leonn rd respon ded 11,11 so me arc and so me am,\ tka"JICftS"'C ones we do. we OY<rlap. He advised on
1he I 9• ofDcccm bc r he as kco for a proposal from and he go1 ii five days ago . And that. ,,c said.
is 1he kind of lead time ... th:11 he cnn t cnll up ~ and s.tty thi s is wh:u we need . come out to the silc
•
•
I th) bou loatewood Chy Cooneil
Ja .. ary 19, 1998 Iii, ••I ••I .::m.L,
P11t 35
and live me your proposnl, so I cnn lock in• doll ar nmou111. 11•11. he noted , is th e problem that they have
had. He oxplllincd 11ta1 the usual owner's rep procedure is 1Jc11 everybody works for y010 every r.hcdt fO
every sun-cy, or whal e ,.r works, for you nnd 1hc ow11cr 's rep works on a rct:tincr and A)'S ... listcn I n,n
your employee 1ha1 you ram1cd out, nnd I'll put all lhesc people undc ment h you nu d if lhe cost is S 10,000
for 1he roport you puy $10,000, if ii is $12,000 yon p11y $12,000 uud if ii;_, $8,000 you pay $8,000 , I ci\'e
you a budget and I IJ')I to keep you inside 11,11 budgcl, btll if ii is o.cr. if it is uudcr, it doesn't matter. He
advised lhal he is just saying is lhat he is going 10 give you the bcs1 for the lowest This is dlffcrcn1, 1lus is
one that says I don 't care. yo u luwc 10 pny this nmounl of mone y. you have to deliver all of 1l1i s. I don ·1
care how much time il takes. I don 't care how umny sun•cys you do , how many core smnples . you ha,·c 10
figure it oul. Mr. LconmJ ~:~1ct1 that is the risk shin and 1hcy can do either one Council wants. ttus Wil$ a
naw program , this kind of phase,: is not nonnal 10 do it. II i, in 1hc project management phase , wbcn
C\'Crybody says we know whc arc plilrrs nrc. we know who arc dC\.:lopcr is . we know everything ... now
just go manage the whok: project .ind make sure it gets done on lime on budget or sooner under budget .
llull am be cnsy . This . he pointed 0111 , is tough .
Council Member Bmdshmv questioned whelhcr Mr Leonard has the c:-.pcn1sc 10 do 1his. Mr . Leonard
said absolulcly .
Council Member Clapp said she just m1111cd to 111;1kc sure she underseands 1h1s. Tha t the way she has
always understood ii nnd tbe way she still bcliC\'cs this is going, i, lbnt Mr. Lronard is bas,cally actmg as
a project manager on bel.ilf of the City. Skip Miller is sri ll the developer nnd we arc ialking aboul getting
hard nwnbcrs within 60 10 90 d.1ys thul Council c.111 cvnlu:uc and they cwn pu1 1hosc up nest to Skip
Miller 's anrl lhey have finall y come up wi1h a ph111 th,11 this Co1111 cil likes. She siatcd Couuc1 l likes what
they see and she secs no reason why we would not pursue Ihm . Mr. Leonard advised thm the only tbing
he would al\ •. It is 1hat the)' don't put them ne:,;t lo Skip Miller's. bcc..msc he hns been working with them.
his numbers arc our numbers and Mr . Miller h,1s every single sprc.1 d sheet he has t.:\'ery rc.}d . Mr.
Leonard advised 1hm he and John Loss have been work111g on them so they cstim,ue lhe smnc cost 10 do
the same thing . The only thing lhat would be different is if Council s.1id ... I don ·1 know,, here 1lus
process is going to end up. I want Skip Miller to finish 1he dC\-clop111e111 process unde:-his l00%
dC\'clopmcnt plan so U,cy could compare dollar for dollar 111ml Ins subsidy would be on 1l011 pion
because ... we ,,ill pay $2 mill ion more for 1lus ove r lhis ai1d so ,,e w:1 111 to sec ... ,r i1s at SJ nuil1on and S5.
million or is it S3 million and S8 111il li o11 nnd then we say SOrT) But. Mr. Leonard advisal. pan of his
problem 1s thal be not only hns to s.1y how much the price would be. but also ho,, 10 solve it That 1s the
diffcrcncc ... a developer can say here is SJ million. wnte 111c a check out An owner 's rep project manager
says ... and here is how you do it...lhcrc is an $8 million problem so yo u hnvc to do lhcsc \ttllh bonds and
these O\'cr here and these wilh rebates and 1hcsc with 11115 nnd 1hn1. And yes. he nmcd . there 1s no
question ... Skip Miller loud and clc.1r ... l wo11·1 prepay for 1he l;111d.
Mayor Bunts stated thnt wns 1he point he was 11111k111g, Sk ip Miller has !11s numbers . ob,,1ously , and he
has had them for some time . Ma)'Or Burns asked how they get from 1h.11 to wha t Mr. Lco11ard is do111g.
Mr. Leonard Slated he docsn ·1 h.1,·e n subsidy number for 100% r,:ta ll plan . he needs to fimsh 1ha1 ume
frame out. Mayor Bums co111111e111ed !hat eve n Mr . Miller 1s say111g I hat he 1s 1101 C\'CII proposing 1h;11
anymore. that he is willing 10 do TOD So. if we nrc going to do TOD. lets Slick wuh TOD If al the end
of60 or 90 days you ;ire co min g b.1ck n11d say mg this docsn 'i \\Ork ... this \Vil)' or 1101 . Ma~or Burns asked
if \\C have a \\il)' to sc:ilc it down or chau ge II so that II \\Ill ,,o rk and su ll be a TOD de\clop mcm He
opi ned thal is impon:1111 . Mr. Lcon:ird :idv1scd thnl is \\hat 11 ,c) \\Ill be \\Orkmgon III the s.1111c tune He
said if they discover that they h;l\'C 11 dea l brc,1kcr. lheu \\e \\O ild JUSI pop our he.id up ;111d sa~ \\C ha\e a
problem . And. Mr . Leonard ad,•iscd. \\C did . we ra n co re s:1111~•lcs. the } ca me ba1.:k . a11d ,,e can ·1 do A. 8
or C ... it can't be d~s 1gned arouud 1he numbers. lh..:y arc g0llll; 1hrough 1he roof. the) c111 ·1 be controlled
and there is no wny we arc going 10 ge1 10 au~ th111g tha1 rese mbl es tlus ~ J. he :1d\ 1scd. ,, h.u 1he ) sugges1
• is that it is j!,"' :,g to be I his pl an plus 1l11 s But. he 11otcd . 11 1s 1101 go111g 10 be "lld 1dc;1s
I
llAIIJewood Clly Cou•cll
J, ... ., 19, 1991
P1ael6
1~ n ' ~21 ) liou 1•,1 n f
P~(' 1'1 'tUIIIJI I.
cl "ll• 'I
l
Mayor Burm opined 11101 ,i.cy hne10 jump on ll•n struclu-. problem righl away, bc.ausc tlia1 ""'"'' to be
• really bi& illllC. Mr. Lconml oped! IMI ,, Is
Mayor Bums asked Council Meaa:I' Gnlml ifll< hnd qer,,ions. speaking ln11')'cr 10 ~,wycr. nboul lhe
language o[lhis 1hing. pa,,,.. i,, porogmph Ceut.c,I 11,1.,nbcr G.r-c11 51nlcd 1h01 clcnrly ll1erc arc
luues !here. Council Mcmb<r w_,.rnn1cd he ho!a loc ,,ftl,em. Mayor Bums .. kcd ifhe has
conr ~ lssu:..
Coun, i i Member Garrell stlllCd tlmt -.Id like 10 1alk ;., Mr . Miller. Mr. Onm:u said juSI 50 lh cy
know, 1h31 he 1111d Council Member abl'.ol z heard somalling slightly difTcrcm . 1ha1 when we went 10 Ibis
particular concepl he hcnrd "'~saying you reall y caa't pla,sc ii in ... lt wns 1hc earlier vcnion when
lhe residential wns son of up ia !he .-thwcst corner ... because, he nolcd, he "5kcd 1ha1 queslion . Council
Member Nobholz lla,nkcd Mr. Gamm and 1old Mr. Miller she "~s sony .
Council Mcn1bcr Garren eotmnetlle:d lf.11n1 somehow tltcn: was th is 1111prcssi r 11. 1hcrc wns a chnnge of
conlrol and who was goi ng 10 dc,:cfq> the project. And nc:n;·. he no ted . ,,c h:wc heard Mr. Lconnrdjust
say now the re is rc.111)' no change in. ic control of the proJCCl. 1-i~ :1skcd Mr. Miller to respond 10 that .
bccau.te he is hearing someth ing sliplly dlfTci,enl nnd he would jus : like 10 hear his 1hough1s on 1ha1 . Mr.
MJIJcr a,m1nc,11cd 1hn1 it is very dif!ialh 10 argue with lhc idea of lei s spend 60 days ni th consultn111s. and
you hire someone 10 do that. and l.tiiel lets ,cc where we am and go rorward . But , he noted, the
discussi ons they li.1,·c nrc much mow iilt ck:pth than 11-.,1. He stmcd ii really boils down to the rncc . and
maybe there is nothing we can do_,.. ii. but we ha\'c bc:cn here for O\'cr th ree :•r-irs and he h.1s no idea
what the commitment of Coancil is Dlhcm. He sai d he has heard. and cvc~•1hing they have heard. has
•
been posilh'C. tlutl he is still the da'doper. But . he Mkcd. wh:u l1.1ppc11 s i(1hc numbers don't work or •
so mebody else will JXIY n little~ He said 1le/ lcn brc.ik fa sl :rnd discussed 1hc idea or wbo was going
to negotiate !he Wal•Man dc:al...us cm-1\hcm. Arid. he ad\·1scd. it "i11S Mr. Lcon:ud 's attitude that the only
way for the Ci 1v 10 gci the bcsl deal w.:ns for l~tm to negot iate. bcCl usc we may give them too good of a
deal. Mr Mir11. .. , stated 1ha1 conccrm! l\1i m. He opined you h.,\'C 10 look al I his thi ng in 1wo or three srngcs .
The stage of spending GO d.'l)'S 10 fin l'.!!<0ut whet her we hn vc any problems . or 90 days 10 sec ,r we can go
forward or sm-c 1hc gamge. he ~• h,m: no probl em wu h 1h;11 issue n1 all They ;1 re very mu ch on
board and would like lo help Hr smcl tllC) h:wc some op1111ons :ibo 111 II and if11 11~body wams 10 know he
woul d gl\-c them bis op mioM :lboot d .e garage an d some of the concerns he hn s nbout it :md some of the
concerns his consullnnts haw abour 11 8111. he no1cd . he dad11 ·1111111k tlm1 was Co uncil Member Garrcu ·s
question right now. lhnl he thought tll "M'M more abo 1111 hc d1rcc1 1011 we arc gilmg Mr. Miller emphas ized
th.11 they ha ve asked rcpe.11cdl~. andlGnry Se:lrs "as good .1bo111 it. because he asked him . but he wanlcd
to know what the ir role is . what do t!tl!".,\ \\':'Int them lo do lfl h~' ge l 1hro11gh lhc slu dy and say we can do
it . then. Mr. Miller asked. wh.1 1 h;ippa::11s Ag.1111. he noted . 1hcrc "ere con versa ti ons !he) had wit h Mr .
Lconnrd. and he doesn 't think they were confmut :uion .. 11. Just two d1fTcre111 ways of doing things ... lhat ii
was origin.ill y proposed 1hat they wete going 10 do lhc di n "Ork :rnd dcli\'Cr Ill e Sile fill ed :rnd WC bought
the si tes . Mr . Miller advised 1h.1 1 he 11\ld Mr Lcon,1rd and Mr Sc:lrs . 1111CC]11ivoc;1lly. th:11 this is a thrcm.
ifthal is the de:11 we wnnl out. we dont t wa nt an~·1hing to do \\Ith 1hn1. 1ha t ,s 1101 workable for us . Mr.
Miller stated he lms no prtlb lcm 1n th~ stu~ ph.isc . b111 once we s1:u1 i111plc111c111 in g thrng s and we stun
dea ling in the arc.is w1 1h W:1l~tan. •uth ru,procn l ca se 1\1 :,grccmcn ts. opc rn1111g agrccmcn1s.
devclopmcnl agreements. which 1cn.1ua.1 cm go in and can I go 111 and how close rcs1aurn n1 s can be 10
them. I hen he ha s 10 do Iha! He ROh!d1t l11s 1s a projccl ong11l;11l~ non he docs11 ·1 k11ow whm ii 1s. but
ori ginnll) ll was some,\hcrc around :11 S401111lhon proJCC'I rhm 1hcy arc gomg to prob.1bly ha\'C $10 mill1011
of1J1cir money in it He poi111cd ow dhUI lhcy 1hough 1 th~ sl 1ould be tl1e ones 10 decide some of th ese
things . Not wlt.11 it looks like or ~hall as in i110 ;1 ge neral sense. but how it gets devclopcd ... ,\lmt 1hc din
cos1 . what the utilities cost . wh,11 1~ 11grccm c111s arc . He s;ud there were iss ues . th e last 1imc th ey tried
to 11cgo1i ate., dcvclopmc 111 ag.recrneno 1hcy m:rc dc.1 ling mlh comi ng up wilh a li st of 11.!nnms 1ha 1 were •
•
l• ..... ood Chy Council
J-■ry 19, 1998
P■&eJ7
accepllblo and DOI IICQlplllblc 10 lhc Cil)', And WC)' would work ll'ilh 1hn1 lllld lricd 10 lua ...._. ■ad
nepli■lc u .. dcvcloplllCIU QjllCC111Clll . So, he said. lhC)' were giving 1hc Ciiy IOIIIC conuol .. i. -·,
1h11 they "~re aoing io fuush 1hls lltina nnd say here is your deal , 10 do it. Mr. Milter ....i dial tllat as
1101 1holr idea of• developer. Maybe, he said, 11,cy h3\'C bad some commwdcalion pcoblcml « leis say~
bawl had IOIIIC. Bui, he cmpls'llizcd. be Slill , Slonding here 1oct.,y docsn 'I know Whal lhcir n,k is. be has
no lclca, where lhcy are or whal lhcy ore supposed 10 do, OIiier lh•n lliey arc supposed 10 .._,.ie irilh
!hem, which 1hcy will do and Mr. Miller ~,i d he was 1101 ~,yi ng 1ha1 facc1ionsl y, bo1 the n be docsn'I know
whnl happens , he docsn ·, know wlie rc 1hcy arc.
Council Member Garrell said 1bc propo~1 I. and he asked 1h01 Mr . Lco1s1rd 1ell him if lie IS "'°"" is 1ha1
after Utls devclopmc111 plan as proposed is de\'clopcd , ll •n Mr, Miller would boy lhe rc i:ul in es:scncc .
Mr. Garrell said llial in his mind 11ml would mea n lhal Mr , Miller woul d \\ril e a check for the Ian:!. Mr,
MiUcr asked in wh al co11di1io11 would lhcy buy 1ba1 land, Council Member Ganc11 5ald lie cbd DOt luiow,
Mr. Miller Slnlcd he docs nol know i[ Ibey ha\'e rcsol,·cd 11,11. He said lhal is 1101 • lc:ldt ng qiation. he
just doesn 't know if that h,1s been rcso l\'cd . Al one 1imc ii \\';JS, but Mr. Miller staled Iba.I sfu as:
unrcsoh'Cd then 1hcy arc concerned , bcc;msc 1l 1cy don ·1 w:1111 to spend n '°' of lime going f0n1-.ud if 1t ,s
going 10 be the other way.
Mayor Bums asked ir1h.11 is pa n of,,h.11 Mr. Lco 11:1rd 1s wpposcd to dc \'clop rc r us here. 8 Mr. Mill er
,;ai d. th.al he 1h0ugh1 in f:limess th ey need 10 undcrsland wluu their ro i: is hcforc we go fun.ha~ Aud they
need 10 un dcrslnnd wh:11 rhcir position is going to be. He said it is 1101... we ll Ille) arc gomg IO spend this
time and then well if ii h.,ppcns 10 be the ,,-:1y you w:uu 10 do ii . )'OU ca n do 1L 1f )OU don 'L tJ:.eD )'OU can
get oul. Mr . Miller po inted 0111 they have spent .1 101 of lime .
Mayor Bums ~,id if Mr, L<:onnrd 's S111d1es dc,-clop Mr , Miller's role , nnd if Mr. Miller acah 10 know
what it is right now. then we arc in two c0mplc1cly dHTc rc ut c:1111ps here. Mr. Mill er said be :as sorry. he
didn 't understand whnt h~ wns s.1ying . Mayor Burn s s.1i d if Mr. Leon;1 rd says 1h.1 1 the idea aflhc study is
to df.1cnninc wh ether 1h1~ .~·a rks :ind ,,li;u 1hc rol e of lhc deve loper 1s. ,,hat you a1c going tc do. we a~
going 10 ha\'C :i dc\'clor mcnt 1hn1 1s rc.tdy 10 go :md Mr. Mille r S.1)S he has lo Imo\\ right oc:m. then those
arc 1wo ,·cry di ffcrc n1 ~sitio ns Ma~or Burns nskcd ,,here :ire we
Cou ncil Membe r Waggone r s:1id he w:,s 1101 sure" hat \IC arc t;1lki 11g .ibout when we Sl~ \\I~ don't know.
He comm c111cd thnt he though t \\C did kuo,,. Ma)or Burns said kno\\ ,,h:11
Mr . Mill er s.1i d ;Ii i they wa nl 1s cl:1rili c;111011
Counc il Member Waggo ner slated lh :tt for sure ,,e kno" lhat tl 11s is th e co ncept of the pu.n tlla1 we want
He asked if that was correct Co11 11cll conc urred
Counci l Mcml:c r \V,1ggo 11i:r s1a 1ed 1h;11 lie spc nl 1hrcc days 111 NC\\ Yo rk Ci!) 1cs1 1f}tn~ before ~Judge.
,·,hen Equ ilnb le tried to cl osr. do wn Vo n Frclli ck. The 1cs1i111011y \\ilS abou t the p.1r'&rng sua;wrc. II ~
wanted to shore ii up undern ea t h. so tt \\Ould lmndl c the lram c an d 1hc he:1,y loads tl1a1 \\Cri: t:111 the
stm c1urc. Abo ut two or three ycnrs ancr 1ha1 lh C) had 1hrcc co11 s11lti11g c11gi11 ccr111 ~ finns lt)LDg 10
co 1wi ncc lh cmsc lvcs th :11 they could p11 1 three inches of asp ha ll 011 th e pa rking struc,ur.::s C.;;11.1 1k:1l
Me mber Br.i dsh;m sa id 011 top of the b.1 d fou nd:1 11 011 . Co1111c1/ Membe r \\;aggoncr S.11d that 45 ngJu
Ma)Or Burn s nolcd th nt 1hat was one of lus qucsuons .• Is he h.1 s :1h\;1~s hea rd that the fou ,on \\JS
u115c1ti sfact ory a nd they don·, build the m 1ha1 ,,ay an) more Th:11. he noted . 1s an old ~ as kl \,hy
tha t place \\:JS llC \'Cr srnblc .
I I u, l li,-,wol nl
Jll'I, I ,Pl '('\'1lm:.L
"'-" '4
Mr Millot ad\ised lhey -noi here 10 !ell Co1111cil lhe p11rking gnmi:c doe<n 'I work , bul 1hey studied II
and !llc7' 111w a Joi or COlltmlS . He s.1/d lhtj could 1nlk 10 nnybddy nnd he lhoUghl Council Would agree,
1h11 oee•dlc muons Cinderella Cliy had problems wns people dldn 'I wnnt 10 go in the 11"1111" when II
wootal. WIien it strudurnlly worl<e~ ii wns n '""' neg.,livc thing, h is n '""' ugly mess. Again, he said.
ll>cR=iDuel. tllac arc just highllgh11 ... no1 fordisc:i..<Sio:i ... bul in order lbr RTD lo wori< you hove 10
takc CMII a bunch of Che cofumns, buses cnn 1l mnnCUvcr in 1hcrc.
~ a.,,.. sa id he undcrsaands all th:n, but thnl he s.11 herc as a rcsidcnl and everybody else did also ,
watchiJoc llicm .... ork on lhe parking SIR!Clure for yc.,rs nnd whnl did lhcy find OUI. He no1cd Mr. Leonard
is lallr:illg lllout vi,ual observa1ions. bul somebody 11111st have done a lot more than Iha!. Mr . Miller staled
Ibey did a lat mon: than visua,izing and lhat is wlun !heir conccm is . He pointed oul they will sec that the
JOllia's panlon is concrc1e and the rcstnict11ring company went in and fixed ii. He ndvised lhal wasn'I a
visual, --.. 11:1, lhcy spcnl and Urey told us and g,1vc us three propo~1ls lhnl indicaled ii will 00SI BS
much IO fix it as to rebuild it. because lhe)' did lhe work . 8111 then , he s.1id. we've got somebody 1ha1 is
driving• archilcct by sa yi ng th:u 1hcy hn,-c :111 cpo.,1' dcnl 1h:11 will give it n IOO ycnr life :rnd he's
thinking there's something to look al nnd we ought 10 c.,-p:-md :i nd look at those 1hint,'S . bccn11 sc it still
mighl lrppen.
Mayor a.m astcd lfwc cin't share all th.11 infonnation. don 't we nll know these things. Mr. Miller said
thal is wlJat tbey arc doing :ind he docsn ·1 know how 10 gel lo nn answer.
City AllarDey Brotzman st aled he lik es 10 go back 10 simple e.isy concL-pts. which wns a question tonight .
Everybody Slid we walll to develop th:11 pic ture . He cxpl:iin cd lhnl 1hc question is do the~ hnvc Skip
Miller•* de\-clopcr .ind Tim Leounrd chcck 111g, up 011 him or should 1he Ci1 y be the dC\'Clopcr nnd lure
Tim Leouni 3S our co nsu h:int nnd Skip Miller check s up on Tim Lco nnrd . Mr. Bro1 .r.111n11 explained thnl
if Skip Miller is the dc,·clopc r he will be :1sking Tim Lcon:ird to do ;1II 1hc details in 1hc comrnct or whnt
Skip MiDcrhas 10 show us. If Tim Leonard is doing tl1c c.0111mc1 . he :1 dviscd . lie will be lnlking 10 Skip
Milkr todo all the dc1ails in the co111rn c1 so Tim Lconnrd co1ncs out ok:1 y. He poinlcd 0111 they nrc talking
about wto is the dc\'clopcr. wh o is ched:ing up on wh o.
Mr. Mil1br sa id that is well put th:11 hejusl ,,,rn1 s to kllO\\ "hnt thei r roles nrc. ns he ne\'er knows when
he walks out of:i meeting.. "h.11 th eir role is.
Council Membe r Wa ggo11cr asked 1fthC) aren 't lnlkin g, :1 bo11t one 01hc r thm g. He s.1id arcn '1 you talkm g
atx>ut also who pays the cost of the infraslmcturc He wa s !ol d no. Mr. Waggoner asked where that lies .
Mr. Miller aih1scd !hat 1hc 00s1s nrc go mg 10 be cos1s. lhnt !he~ c;111 sho\\ Co uncil 1he ,,hole piclurc.
either T ua Leona rd or tl1c 111 or co ll cc1h-c l\ He staled 1l 1i:y nrc g,o i11 g, to hnvc 1111 eco nomic pnc kab'C ror all
of 11. wbd will be 111fr11s1mc1urc as wel l :1 s every 01h er pan or1hc dcvclop111 c111 Council Member
Waggooa-asked if i i will be under O11 c dc,·el opm ent agree ment. Mr Mill er s;nd that is wh:11 he docs n·1
know. He stated he \\.1S 1old one lime th:11 so me or1h e infmstmc111 re may be done. we mn y do ii He
rcitcr.ated Cla1 th.it 1s hi s C'IU CS!ion. Council Membe r Wa ~ou cr co111m c:111cd Iha ! he was re.ill y co nfused
Counctl ~bcr H:ibc nich t norcd th :u Ci1 y Au omey Bro l i'.111:1 11 sinn ed 10 a•1swcr th e q11 cs ti o11 she had
She asked Gary Sears :ind O;i n Brotzman ff th ey we re both in th is mos t '.CCC III 111cc 1ing. She \\,IS told 1ha1
~1r. Brotzman was no t. but Mr Sc:tr s wns She asked Cit y M:mngcr ::icnrs "hal hi!I 1111dcrsrnnd 111 g, 1s Jr
he feels Oi!IDlfo n:ib le . fee ls co 11fidc111. 1hat he can re spond to Skip MIii er s qu cs 11O11s as one perso n and 1f
he reds cx:mfiden l 1h.1 1 th is co ul d be wo,k cd wi th . 1h ro ubh Tim Lco n:n d. in a pos iti ve wa~ She ;i skcd if
thal "·ouM b: D bcncfil to 1he Cny Slaff iu workm g, th ro ugh 1h1 s. \\O t1ld i1 be a de1ri111c111 or \\Otlld ii be nn
c.xtra She asked if he fel t he cou ld 1al k d1rcc 1I~ 10 Skip MIi ier nml le t 111111 kno,,
•
•
•
laalewood City Coon•II
J•n••I')' 19, 1998
Paae 39
t A ) I ll I hoo-..-:,f• lfi
1•1 /' n1unt".
)&,. 1 11
<;il)I ~gcr Sc;i r1 "1id 111111 he fell Cily Allorucy BfO i.JIIIID lad• swnm.a,it.cd 1hc issue nnd \hat is
Whal !hey were n:;illy ll)•ina ,. aci 10 loniglll . He opined Ulal ~ ll!c dialogue has beep \'Cl)' helpful
• lo if tbcrc isa sense or cooper.Ilion in lcnns or dcalin& witllllic ,,cplk wucs. He said !.c hears I
cooperation, bul be docsn 'I llcnr coopcralion . He &tllcd he cloc:a 'tlar that Ib is blend of both Decpw1i1~r
and Mlllcr/Kilchcll have really come logethcr or"" wouldn 'I be honing 1h is 111 dcp1h discust1 on . He said
he would guess. os Cily Anomcy Brotzman said. 1ha1 1hcrc are • 1wo sides or lhc role. which is. do we
hire lhc cxpcrtilc and 1'1< qualily of Tim l.cx;Mrd and Marilee U-IIO bi rd do&, wa1ch 1hc infonnalion
dull is pul 1ogcthcr aJI\I be. so,ior. Ilic Ci1y 's rcprcscuuui.-c. lO lm3 look oi Ilic proposal 1ha1 Skip Miller
comes up will,. Or, do we ask 111Cm 10 pul logcllicr 11,c i11fo11111Uaand ask Slup Miller to work wilh
diem 10 develop llwL Mr. Scars said l,c would gucs, hc's or tbe op;:IIKII~ 10 a ccn~in c.xtcn1. where he
1hough1 ii would be helpful for lhc Council 10 gel a pro pos.11 rrom Slap Miller, in 1cnns or whm he can do ,
in tcnns of 1hc proposed TOD project and what the coses arc and wlmt \he diff'crcncc in costs arc . And
lhcn sec how good the proposed conlract is and hav• the co111raa rnuewcd by Tim Lcon:ml and r,jarilee
Uucr 10 dctcm1ine whether or 1101 1h.11 is do.1 bl c And. he 1101ol h:rn: .c hem "'ork wi th us 10 tweak the
lnfonnation to lry to add ,•,1l uc 10 lhc dc\'c lopmc11 1. ;iflc r an agn::arcm1 is prq,ared \\Uh the deve loper to
develo p lhc propeny.
Mayor Bums asked ir the conlmet. which wos proposed 1onighl. JS D Jnakc Ilic Ci1y tl1c developer for
purposes of this e.xmnination . He s::iid he heard not . so he is no1 ~ 'l\-hcrc that gets us. Where Tim
Leo nard is c.xpbining ... ir you wnnt TOD and )'OU waut 10 say,--.ant la figure om if this works. then we
can do 1hn1 for you ;i nd that is wlml we ::arc proposing. But we a: m 5ayiug the City has become the
developer by goinc inlo the contr.1c1.
Mr . Miller 5,,1id lhcy arc 1101 suggesting that the Ci l)' be dC\'cioper. ~ developer is a broad te rm . He
opined th::1 1 what they need to do is defi ne the rol es and undcrslMd. •bo h.u wl1..1t responsibility . He sai d
lets for ge t abou1 who is th e derclopcr or \\h:1tC\''Cr 1cn11 you ,vana KJ iu.c,_ ••. 111,1.Slcr dc,·clopcr. Mr . Miller
sla ted thaL he wa nted In respond to something City Mana~r San si;u1. because ii is imponam . He
acknow ledged 1hat lu.: is pr~1bly as n.1i\'C :is cn n be here . but be::ausit be on l} knows the way he and oth er
developers do 1hings. !1 011 all the 1hings 1hn1 1hci do. he docs [0< ll0t!1m c as a risk 11011 1hc) are going to do
the project. Mr . Miller pointed out that they d0 11 ·1 s1gi1 a con1 rx110 vc the Cit) pa) x dollars 10 go out
and invcstigmc the gar.i gc . Th.it . he staled. is their rcspo 1t!;tb1ln}; u,lt&a, the) were pi cked as the dev,::lopc r
and they have been doin g I hat al 110 cost 1101 even rcqucs 1111g a pcnn.~-\\ith no co111r.1ct ,,h.,1 1socver. That .
he nmi111aincd. is what deve lope rs do, TI1c:i 1:1ke 1hosc fro nt cndnsh. He uo1cd 1hc Ci1, ca n have
somebody co nsu lt wit h them. which 1hcy ,,auld IO\'C to ha\'C Tu• Lo:uin rd and ~fan Ice Uncr do . and lhcy
would watch whai we do and make sure Ihm ,,e ge1 the ng,41 1J.UJKJCJ3,so ,,c nrc 1101 chcaung the Cit)' or
ski mmiug the Ci1y in a11yw:1y. But. he s.1id . 11 1s 1101 lllC dcvdopcr bmlds so1nc 1h1 ng Dc\'clopcr
me.ins a lot of different 1hi11gs and when )OU s.1, 1he) arc not s.1.~mg ~ nre go 111g to be the deve loper.
they are doing a develo pers runction. dn, ouc.
Ci ty Manager Scars s.iid he is ri ght. but as the owner of the propat_-w.,c arc com ing up \\ilh an agreement
wit h Mr. Miller :rnd we 11rd 10 know wh.1 1 the 1cnns or that ag.rcani:u:a arc . as to wh at ,,c need to pay for .
So. he sta led . 1hcre need !> be an agrcem clll :111d 1ha11 s ;1IJ \\C ~ ta , ng nbout Mr Miller staled Ihm
they have h.,d a de\'clop111en 1 ag rccmcnl on th e 1ablc . Mr. Sers .ad\isai 1h.11 his proposa l 1s tha1 Mr.
Miller presen t th at 10 the City 50 we kuow \\h a1 1hm 15 ;rnd \\C \\tJQ.J loo~ to the m 10 ;1S.S151 us in rnkint; a
look :11 \,hc1her or not tl1 at ca n be de\ doped or 1l1c, represent us~ the 1i1ne lie dC\clops tl1e prJjcct
over th ere .
Mr. Miller ad\'i Scd 1hat he \\ilS only tryin~ 10 del'i ne so me terms .. bc::Ji.:sc he lln nks I hilt III Lll c s11npl cs 1
term . t11e de ve lope r 1s not jusl 1he g11y \,110 b111ld s 1!1c bu1ld111gs. \dJ.yc:ir Burns s.11d l,c underst a11ds \\l1at
he is snrmg. Mr. Mille r no1cd th e dc,clopcr5 ro le c 111 mea n a toed 1.J.Tcrc111 1l1111gs and \\C ;1ll 1hro,\
• th ese lcnns a.round. when 111:'l)l>c ,,c arc ;i ll 1h111~111g abc:1111 soma~.jilferc111. Beca use he 1101ed. 11 was
Eaa!ewood City Council
J-ryl9,1991
Paae ◄O
l'l'!IIO l '(11 ) b I n.1
trl' I • I na.una.l
t .q
said you an, not proposing that Mlller/Kilchell nor be the developer. bur you nrc proposing• runctJoa thil
a dm:lopcr n,nnnll y docs would go 10 somebody else . So, he snid . 1vha1ever you wnnt lo cnll that He
staUd he Is not saying"~ shouldn 't do Iha!, he lsjusr rrii ng to gel the f.1cts . And like Dnn Brotzman sald
here is the simple wny, whlct1 way do you"~•• 10 do it. Mr. MIiier pol med 0111 Ihm it Is Council's to
decide.
So, Council Member Hnbenlchl a1kcd. If Mr. Miller would work wilh rhls . Mr . Miller stated yes. Ms.
Habcnichl said. then Mr. Mi1lcr would fcrl \'Cl)' coopcmli\'c in working wilh th:u nrmngcment. Mr.
Miller said, if they know what their role is. He stared he doesn't wnnl 10 continue 10 work, not k.-ing
where they ore goln to be . Mr. Miller rcilcmtcd th.at nit he wants to know is what Council secs their
responsibility lo be, whnl rheir role is
Mr. Uonard stared that that is the poinr , which Skip Miller is making. 1hn1 ii docsn '1 mnucr 10 them 1-
lhcy assiSI the City . He s.iid he and Mitri let! Uncr were s.,ying 1hn1 irtherc is n cost issue. n rnsh now
issue. what irhc and Marilee Uncr look the dc\clopcrs nsk and 1hc~ fr0111 end all the fees . bul lhcy :uc not
in competition 10 do the dcvclop111cnt nOcr \\OnJ s. so ,,hen ,,ould 1hc~ c,cr get 1hc recs hnck . Mr
Leonard c."plnincd thal thal is why a developer, knowing th:ll he has a prOJCCI. can front end the fees.
because he kno,~ that when he gels rhe project he gets his recs pnid back Thar . he nored . I, pnM af rhc
issue that is on the table th.it says one c:m do ii :111d one c:111 check up . Or one can do ii nnd the ocher can
chcct up. Mr. Lcon.,rd sc:ucd thnt it docsn 't m:111er which w:ty it goes. \\ith the exccp1io11 1h.,1 ifil is a
cash ffow issue for Council. tlun is nll ii is , ii is 1101 a p.1y111c111 issue . Bcc:1usc. he s.1id . 1hc rc 11re line
items, there h.'lS to be line items. and Skip Miller 's b11dge1 when it comes in. when !he project is done . for
all the work thal hns been done for his 1:ibor and hi s s1a rrs lnbor or an) consuh:rn1 \,a rk 1hm he has done
Mr. Leonard opined tha1 is fair. bcc.111sc 1hn1 is the work that is :,dding 1hc vnluc 10 the propcn).
Regarding the coopcmtion Issue. he nskcd lh:11 City Mnna gcr $curs n01 misundcrs1i\nd th:11 wh en Skip
Miller says he doeJn'11hink thi s c.111 be s;wed :111d he thinks ir docs . 1h:11 the~ wouldn 't eoopcmte 10 ge1
t.hat answer. Mr. Lcon.ird stared th:11 he feels con liden11hn1 . wh:11e,er 1hey do . they would be nble to get
that answer. The trick would be . he s:iid , 1h:u irC01111e1: put him III a posit ion 10 S:I) Skip Miller 1h1s is
your nickel . you h.1\·c 10 run ii. ils your bud get nnd )OIi c:i n gc1 there on :111y p.11h you wn11 1 and mlkc sure
we check up. Mr. Lcon.1rd st:ucd if he were to s.1y grc.11. hire M;1n 111 :111d M:i r1111 for SS0.000 . take 1cn
cott s:implcs because we need 10 know tl11s ilnswer . And ~Ir Mille r s.,~-s l"\'e :ilrcady looked n1 i1 . I've
done ii :1lrc.1d y. this is my money :1 11d you c:m ·1 tell me how 10 spend it. TI1is . Mr. Leonard mai m:,,incd. is
a legi111nate issue. and in that in s1:111cc they c:in't ge1 the an .su er.
Mayor Bums s1a 1cd lh:11 th:ll w~,s his ne ,·1 qu est1011 . ex:ietl) that how ,,ould he fu11c1io11 in chccki11 b on
what Skip Miller docs . He asked irhe woul d co me b.1 ek :rnd s:1y I \\Ould lik e to hire llus pe rson 10 do llus
stu¢r Mr . Leonard ndviscd he would j11s1 make 1hc rc:rnn11 11enda1 1on . s.1~· this is ,,h:11 f think we c:rn do 10
get h,~rc . The nice p:1r1 is. he s.1 id . bccm1sc 111 s probabl~ a subs1d~ is sue. Is Iha! lh:tt 1.JSI. uh;11cvcr 111s
going to be . is goi ng 10 be ba ck in10 1he de\'el opc rs ag rcc 111c111 an ~ ,,a~ So he ,s going 10 be able 10 s.1~.
listen I h.1d to spe nd nll of these fro111 end cost s. ~o ur consultilnts made me spend it so therefo re you ha\'c
to be ab le 10 pny th ose. because my rc111rn is 11 'Ju.I., ins1c:1cl or 12 %
Mayor Bums s.1i d in olher word s. wh ;ll he \\Ouldn·1 ,,·:1111 , is for 1111111 0 be in lhc pos 111011 Of \\'anting 10
hire a finn to do this :rnd Ski p Mille r s.,~s 110. I do11·1 w:rn t to do 1h:u Mr Le onard advised 1h.111h.11 is hts
right lo do th:11. he !ms been there and don e 1ha1 But 1hen. Mayor Bn rn s i\Skcd. doc s Cou ncil ge t 1hc
answer from Mr . Leonnrd 1hat they :ire scckmg Mr . Leonard s:1id 11 0. 11 :>1 1r 1hcy \\':111 1 a full investiga 1ion
or1L He indi c:ucd Skip Miller would s:1y )Ou :1rc was1rng ~ou r mane~ and )OU arc \\':'1St111 g )our 111 11c.
u:·lcss we nrc mnking th:tl progress . Well !hen. Mnyor Burn s ns kcd . how do th ey do !hill . if ii is Skip
•
•
M ller ·s pro pos.1 1. do they lmvc , lccw:1~ in 1hcrc "here we s:1y we '"II rund th:11 c, "r.l engi neer if you
want. Mr. Lcon:ird advised th e~ wo1ild be \\Ork111g JI 0111. Sl..1 p Miller ,,ou ld say 1 ·11 six;nd ~2K5 .000
gettin g you whe re you want 10 go :md I am gomg 10 pul 11 back in 1he dc,elop me11 1 :1grcc mcnt Mayor •
•
laatewood Clly C1111ncil J••••ry 19, 1998
•••• 41
llo1nu11 1 111) bau,,.,i,." ~
111111 ,t1l'f1J.lfll t
H •l•1
Bum, said then Lbil r,oc:s bad\ 10 Skip Mdlcr ...S J>c says now he docsn ·1 kuow wl•11 his role is. Mr ,
L<olllld advised dlal Skip Miller needs IO.._ llil role. Mr. Miller said if it wen: that way he would
undcnllnd It pcrfCCIJy .
Council Member Gam:11 pointed out that the C'II) has the ultimate lc,,:ntgc. Council docs not have to
•P1•rovc the pl nn Skip Miller brings forward. lib:: sa) i I :1111 not going 10 spend the mone y, then we cnn
say we arc not goina to approve his pL111.
Mayor Bums 4Skcd ir we on: saying,.., an:~ 10 II" to the same place a~~ "~Y -
Mr. Miller explained lhal lhcsc projccu an: daw,i lot. tllis is not a new co":cpt. Ho said lhat, when 1hey
were doing all this work for the Broodw:I) M:ul;ct Plaa: projc,:I , the City ha~ DURA as tl1eir consult mts
and they walehcd every step they took aad tbc:J, 4.:cidcd if they had done the riallt U1ing or lhc wrong
thing . And whether th ey were using lhe right c:ms:ult:rnts. whether it w;1s designed right. whctucr lhc an
was ri&ht, whether the u11l11ics were righ1 .aDd wllclbcr we were gomg to put sua:1scapc up and down ~lh
!lrccts. Mr. Miller pointed out thal tlus. ~ n::ul) &KM ,11.11 complic:ucd . He stated thlll what he is
corarncd nbout is that we ha\'C complicaaaJ di~· uyang 10 change 1he functions. And uwybc , be
co1nmcn1od. be is just 'lid fashioned and OAI!-Ul')I,, one wa) to do ii. but 1hat is lbc development business .
He said what he doesn 't 1hi11k they c::rn dr,.;and u'lt..11 he 1l1111k s is unf:ur. is 10 be ti!<: prcdcvclopcr and 1J1cn
rum it over and s..iy here now do it ... we ·,\:';--~• this far. do you like 11. if you don ·1. ~on '1 do ii.
Mayor Bums said that is c.x.,ctly wh..11 ("cuaciJ, g.ht tllC)' were getting 10 by h.1ving a dcvclopinem plah
that would be implementable . Mr. ~·tiller s.ud' aka• the dc\•clopmcm plan. unfonunmely, and he
acknowk:dgcd th,1 1 maybe he was cunin1 lus oa;i 1hrmt. bul that he didn 't bclic,..c the plan is going 10
look a lot like lhnt when you flud out what )Neall aJTord . Ma)·or Bums 1101cd 1h111 111.11)' be true . Mr .
Miller noted 1hn1 nu1y be what Council Mc:mbt..'"f Habcn ic lu snid . ,,h~ hi re so meone 111111 tell s you 1hn1.
But. he o:>mmcnted. if he believes t1'3". hcdu:111(1 llunk Council would want 10 lure him if he didn 't tell
them what he feels . lie said it i:just hkc kc I Counol th:11 he lhmks lhc CU) Hull is gomg ID CO$l a lol
more 1han SS mill ion . Bui , Mayor Burns sud.. If he UWc:s a pro~ of his own . which City Miuiager
Scars is as.king for. he \van1s fim Lcoa.vd lO ~'C some l:ui1udc to be :1blc 10 spend some money to bring
another engineer or whatever. 10 do somcthmg I he believes 1111gh1 be shonn to be vinblc and Mr .
MiJkr mny not bcliC\'C ii. Mr . Miller opuni lU1 if be. Tim Lcon.,rd :md Marilee Utter sat down :ind their
subject was to dctenuinc the via bilir, ofsinng 1hc garage. that they co uld figure ou 1 a methodology to do
th.it. And , he noled . it wo11ld11'1 m,1i<c :rn~ d11liacno: 111 1h:u rc~;ird whclhcr ii was ouc \\ii)' or the oth er
He rci1 eratcd 1hey would sit down and n-00.. tomcther 10 get tit.II done. There arc 01hcr issues. he 5'1id. th.ii
they need to keep doing. He stmcd 1hc:, need ao kp workrni; wi1h Mark Goldberg :rnd Wal -M:1 n . as they
don ·, wnnt 10 1urn that onr 10 so11lCbod) else 1:t _go ncgoti,uc 1ha1 de.ii.
Mayor Burns nskcd if they could 11\0\e 1tus agr::c,meut :1 l0!1g \\llh Deepwa ter and ask Mr. Miller to make a
submi nal at the same time. Co :mcil McuWXr Habcmdn agreed aud ;1skcd ir tl1C) could do that Cil)'
Auorney Brot zma n s.1i d no . Council Menlbcr Brod.sh.," slated \\e :ire go111g 10 ha\'c 10 fish or cut bait.
Mr. Broll.m.1n ad\1iscd 1hcy :ire re.ill) Komg to, lk.a \e 10 say do H. check on 111111
Mr . Miller not ed 1l11s isn 't co111 pan ng one ~ncn1 . 111:1 1 1l1C) arc 1:1lk111g :1bou1 ;i ph1l osopl1) of
directi on . lf}OU go i1is dircc1 1011 :ind ~ou don.;. l1Lc 1he numbers. }OIi do n't hkc 1hc cJ11trac1. )OU \\Ill ti .x
ii. ~Ir, Miller s1:11cd if1hcy don ·, li ke b1sconr.nH:t. bul lhC} lik e lhc concept lhC) wil l fi x II. He noted
lliat as he 1old Mr . Lcon.1rd . we h;i\ l'lC\t:r las;: 1 dc:11 bcca11sc \\C cou ldn 't li gurc 0111 lhc fo r111 or th .:
lc.1.sc . He srntcd they will work ;iu agrccmcni o..11 nluchc ,er \\'.I) Cou ncil chooses And the fo rm of I hat
agreement, Mr . Miller s.iid. is 1101 \\hclhcr~o chose nghl or lcfl He s1a1cd Counc il has ro mak e 1hat
dccis'on , bite that bullet :111<1 go .
l:n1lewood Clly Council
Janury 19, 1998
··••◄2
Council Member Oam:t asked Mr. MIiier lfhe brought n plnn forwanJ .1hcy may be <hcdling.., ii.._
what would the rime fr:\iue be . Mr: Miller opined thnl their tirnc frame 10 develop the plan C-lis
talking about is no different thnu wlmt hns been proposed to them . He opined thnt wilbin • 60 Illy paliN,
ralhcr than a 90 ... thcy could hm·c a pop up ti111c 1h:11 s.iys we 1hi11k we 're on path or we arc not Anddlen
we 1nake a decision to move forwnrd .
Council Member Bradshaw s.iid she doc sn ·1 1h i.ak lhcy should sign n con1mc1 wi1h an)body unm they ,Ft
n plan . Tiu:n. City Mnnagcr Scars s.iid. during 1llis lime fr.11nc , under the sccn:1rio 1hm wt: use them as
consultants and we would h:lvc some 111cthod where they give us consulting. Ms . Bntdshaw said~-
But. Mr. Scars noted, ii is going lube on an hourly basis for them to do 1hn1. Mr. Leonard sutcd ttw tS
typicol owner's rep S111JT, as Skip Miller snid, 11011 the usMI woy to be oblc to do it is. the developer doe1
all the development and your owner's n:p juS1 m.1nagcs the project and makes sure that you get tho.,...
value for the money. in the earliest time frnmc nnd for the ehc:1l)CS1 dollar
Mr. Miller asked if 1hcn: aren't cities thnt lull'C planni:,g stuffs th:11 do that. becnusc 1hcy 1...,., ~
degrees or people :md 1herc arc other people 111..,1 go oulsidc and do 1hn1 . But . Mayor Bums noccd. k
thought he wns saying th.it in !hose roles 1hnl Tim Leonard :md Marilee Uucr can S1ill decide if the too
conccpl 1ha: Council is looking 01 hen:, . '·• or ii docsn ·,. Mr. Miller st•ted 1lut1 11oukl boa~_,
and they would wor1c ,~ri·. \'Cf)' closely .
Council Member Brndshnw sr.id sl1c wanted 10 propose :1 third option 11ml nobod )' lms mcmioncd tonig'h t
She Jskcd Skip Miller. ir Council ga\'c him this dC\-clopmcnt could he just go with ii. just '* it 1111111111
today . Mr. Miller asked if she wns referring to 1hc deve lopment 1hn1 is on 1he table lherc. Ms. Bradillaw
said as close to that ns possible. Mr. Miller s.iid hen: is 1he problem. and he noled lhcy were asked Ill>
think about 1hat. 1hn1 his problem with ii is thnt he is concerned thnt 111111 is not vinblc He staled thal if
they ga\'c him $28 million he would go nm wi1h II Council Member Bradshaw stau.d that 1ha1 11111
always been her concern . as far as how much it is really costing. Mr . Miller snid he cannot make~
numbers go away . Ms . Bmdshnw asked Mr. Miller irhc has lh c expc nisc 10 nin the "11olc projcd. Ml
Miller ::.,id nbsolu1cly. thal th~· h:1\'c done project s like thi s :md 1ha1 is not a problem . Counci l McMl:lcr
Bmdst1nw asked him if 11 would lake him 60 days 10 find out. Mr Miller opined thai 1n 60 d.l';s. 90 n the
most . that :is Tim Lconnrd nnd Mnrilcc Uucr have snid to Council. th111 !hey woul<! be able totome-r•
Council together. their group nnd our group. Tim Lcon:irrl added lhnt lhcy would bring ii 10 Couucil .and
say here nrc the problems . do you wum to lake th is ri sk or 1101 or. here arc the issues
Courteil Member Br:1dshaw S1a1cd thni if the problems arc kno\\ 11. as :1 rcprcscn1111i"e of Englc\WOd , fiilw:
nce:d~ to know what lhosc problem s nrc. lns1cad or people jus1 talking nbou l prob le ms and no1 1de~1n.g
them . She s.iid she knows one is mon ey . but th:ll she is !ired ofhc:ui ng nbout :1ll 1his other stuff'. thmugh
innuendo and rumor. lh:11 she Im, .10 kn owledge or. Mr. Miller said she would ha\'C to sn do\\11 wi•:11 them
and spend a lot of hours wit h rilcm 10 go throu gh al l those poinl s. ir Co unc1l wants 10 knO\\'. ir lhc:y -=all~
wrull to get thit invol\'ed 10 know every· piece or1!11 s. rath er than kn owing Ihm )OIi ha\C an cconornac
issue . a bus traffic issue. a p.,rt::in g s1rnc1 11rc iss11e Mayor Bums co 111111cn1cd 111:11 :,e d1dn'11hinh (GUDC1 l
ne eds 10 be engineer s 0:1 C\'el)' .i sp...-ct of 11 . Mr Mi ll er said lh C) cnn go rhrou gh nll 1!1..11. 1f tha t t5 wbl
thC) want. bul lhn,I 1h:tt is whal 1hcy arc hirin g Tun Lco11ard for Mr . Mi ll er said 1h~ :ire ~011. and W )
wiJI uudcrstan :t and rcpo n \u Council wheth er ii 1s doable or not doable . And Couucll ,.,.011 ·1 IL.he si1
down ar,d 1ry to 11ndcrs1:md all the linancial aspects of ii. 1hc 111e1hodologics or rnisi11g the nwnc,. ck
1 •• .:thodolugics ofconst n1c1ion Hi re so111co nc to do 1ha1
Council Member Cl:1pp '..1 id lh:11 111 the pasl she fel l i i has been very hard on our pl'C'lious City Manaigcrs
to ha ve to m.1nag1., lite Cinderella Cit~ dc\dop111e111 . ;1 lo11g \\Uh 1hcir regular. C\C l)da~ dut ies She cd
llull i11 the past she llil s 1101 sup po ned lurin g :111 as s1s1a111 Ci 1y M:111:1gc r. bcc:msc she reall~ relt th.it •4hat
we re.i ll} needed wa s a pro jcc 1 111a11:1gc r to haudl c Cmd erell a CII} and lure a Cu:, Manager to run •
•
En~1nl0d. City c~
JUU/jl')' it, 1!191
Pace43
Ii rn11u) 111 J l111otnl••1
1111 1 ('f !ILUl11,I
i.~ ui 4!
Cily. She said it is not tlwl she docsn 't feel Gary Senn. could do this, thut she reels he could do a
won.ictlW jct, wilh it. Bllf., 5llC opulCII, ii is too much for one pen.on and t!in\ is \Yhy she ii really iq
suppon ofbavi111-11111 this project and work with Skip M(llcr 011 the c )1y 's behalf so 1hnl Counci l
doesn't haYOIOFI ia IIIIWCRIID3lllsiO& it Several Council member,; ngn:cd . 'rhc /1, Council Member
Bradshaw said. 'MJ 1\GIIM mainaain Deepwater .as a consullant, Ci!)' Mi1 n,1gcr Senrs s.1i~ thnl is d,rrcct .
Council tvtcmbcr W~ asked when they will g_ct 10 go over the comrnct. Com;cil Member Garrett
,, med 1ha1 should jusa be lllll :in hourly basis. lh:II you wouldn ·1 sign :i contrnct like this . Mr. Leonard
no;cd he would no1 be tabng 1ha1 risk, that now it is o,·cr 011 the dc\'cloper 's side .
Mayor Bums iUkcd il~\'.a>Uld ha\'c contr.lClS by February 9,,,. Ci1y M.inagcr ,said Council would hm·c a
plan lrom lhcm by l'dlnlm;)' 9'". with some type of comrnct or propo~,I from yo,u by Febnmry 9~ \\iU1 a
plan Iha! can pnv.•111. Hcaokcd if they can do 1ha1.
Mr. MiJlcr asked if be DMCaRI by a plan. a drawrn g of a plan . Ci ty M:magcr Scars s.1id wi1h numbers to go
behind tJ1.1l. But . Mr* Millier asked if ii is a dJ;i ,\'i ng . Mr. Sews sa id that is right Mr. Miller odviscd th111
the prob&em they h.nc.wuili Ibis project 10 do :1 plan . yo u have tu pu1 eco nomi cs 10 it. He snid they ha\'e a
plan and tbcy arc tl)i.l&;U pul econom ics 10 1b.11 one ,1 nd they ·,viii co11111111c 10 work 1hi11 one nnd 1ell
Council within lhal lil.'1 ~• period if it works or not. tr Council wa111s !hem 10 chrmgc ii. tu the opposi1e
end of the spean&m. •~ ?id give us a pL,n that is all retail. then \\C ca11 give you that plan an d then
tell you what the caNDIIWS .ire .. Bui. M ·. Miller said . Council h.is ghen them a direction so he doesn 'I
have a plan or the tmp:"ia1lnd that mnkcs 1ha1 thing affordable . He said they have 10 go figure out a way
to do that Mr. Miller s:llltl be thinks his 11S$ig,.uncn1 is lo take 11ml pl:111 and tc-11 Council whe1 her ii works
ornol and within n::a.H11.if.t.bcy en ehaugc some things Jr.Jund to s.1ve some money , but still retain the
guts of that. they "ill .mamc in nnd show you. Council Member Bradsh:1w said c~:1c1ly .
Mayor Bums asked tftlwu JS under his dm'Clopc r's risk . Mr. Miller s.1id 1ha1 is righl.
But . Mayo r Bums no(cdl on T un Leo nard 's SJde 1hey h:1\'e 10 ha \'c s0 111c 1l 11ng 1h:11 S.1)S \\e h:l\c so 111c
agreement here or somc:.acm1rac t for servi ces Mr . Miller s.1 1d Co1111cil could g1,·e hnn a co 111rac1 for an
hourly basis. Mr. Lconnu..d s.:11d yes, Ihm 1s no big dc:;1I. 111;11 it would bt' lh c co111rac1 lhlll they arc here to
work on the Ci1y 's beb.JUfrto get the bcs1 to make sure 111;11 when he is s1a11di11g up 11c,-.:110 Skip Miller in
60. 90 days. six mool.hs.. w.rha tC\'cr the process is . Mayor Burns ,,1id we arc no1 going to si .-.; mo111hs .
Council Hcmbcr Brndsbww no. no . 110 and asked if I hey s.1w hO \\ he ex tended 1ha1.
City Manage; Scars a.ske::I them what would be :1 rc.1son:1bl c time for 1hcm to co me ba ck with 1hnt plan .
with a cost :?.nd a proa:s&i 10 com. 10 :111 agrceme 111 to fin:1 li ze thi s Mr. Miller noted he keep s questioning
it and M.r. Leonard Sil ys rihcy ncco more lime He s·ud Cou ncil should be hc;1r111g 1ha1 th e) ha\c ghc11
UICm a very difficul t tasll\ 10 bnng about th,11 pl.in i1 an eco uomic wn~. And. he pointed 011 1. hi: 111c.111s
that plan or somcduog smmlar 10 it. And 1ha1 is why . he :1 dviscd 1h:11 Tun Le onard is sayi ng he needs a
bunch of time and "--e:i n:: sayiag we do11 ·1 undcnrnnd how 111s g0111g 10 ,,ark . He poi111cd out 1h:11
Cotmcil is heanng the 5ilm 1c mcss.,gc 1he~ h;nc g1\'Cn them co ll cctl\CI~. nhoc,cr doc s wh.11, n \'Cry
difficulL ifnol mi SSX!n mnposs1blc to do and the) arc s;1y111g c,111 yo u c.l o 1h;11 b~ Fcbniar;. 1l '. Tim
Leonard sL1tcd 1b.1t tb:m. 1s no q11cs1i o11 tha1 we ;ire pu sl1111g th e c11,clope 0 11 a dc,elop1ne111 plan in
Englewood . i i Cindc::tc!llll Cit). in 1998 . He pointed out th.1t thi s is lhc kmd of s1t11T you bring the Pet er
Calthorpe·s in 10 ~· w.c::·1u:an1 so1ncthi11g that ha sn't bcc1 1 done . Tl1 e lm rd p.1n is ho w do yo u gel ii done
He noted when we Si.I!'~ don 't know whal th.al plan looks li ke thal he feel s c:-..aetl ) i:,c same w:1y. he
doesn 't know wha t the ~1nn looks like nnd how 1he numbers arc go in g 10 \\Ork fo r it. Bui. he s;1id. he and
Skip Miller a:c co nfidClnl lhat it c:111 ge l done. 1hat a pl;m c:111 ge l don e. 1ha1 is fina11 cially fc;1s1bl c. that is
the bcsl TOD plan ~ou c:aa gci fo r 1hc 111011~. !hat docs 11 ·1 uccc.l a subs 1d~ for the ta .,µa~cr s. or ,1 ,me Iha!
is going to delay 11.
Inglewood Clly Council
January 19, 1998
PaKc 44
Mayor Bums opined 1h01 ihls Cou11ci1 \l'ould say yes. 1l1n1 Is whh1 we wnnl --· loo ·ll'•ed. hciW l<'ftg
before they hnvc lhal n11s11~r. Mr, Lcon:ird s1n1cd lhlll !he 11,irk "" Ms ~,ne in it is 6 -and In 1,11<
middle being able 10 soy .. ,11~ nre on 1he righl imc~. wo ore lherc . And, he ......t. ~ . •1'md both 1"'
standing up, 1he consullnnls would be stnndiug up nnd suying we think lh is--tS daabit-111'C ha\-c aoc1en '28 to
6, or to 2, or whatever 1hc number 1h.111hcrc is thnl I here is a sprc;1d :t nd s.1y lbcrc 11 rs aNJ we think we
nre gelling 1herc, Bui , he no1ed, lhcy arc 1101 going 10 have in 90 days 1ha1 Im of prodacu 11"11 )Oil have.
lc11crs or intent nH nronnd , n plnn llmt Is goiug 10 be lnstrltllly implcmcnlable in 90 clays.
Council Member Hnbcnicht said 1h.1t sl1c thought sl1c \\Ou ld 11:nc to agree "ith Ski p Mil ler . She said she
is hearing lhc remarks nbo111 it noi being linanc.:inlly fc.'lsiblc nnd the issues of cimc aad the money . But .
she said, she feels lhey arc going lo co me 1ogc1hcr And for ihe first 111110 in a loag thnc sh< feels a 101 l1f
cxcitcmcnl and confidence . She s.1id she feels conlidcnt thnt 1his Council is rally gotftt!-•o ffiO\lc forward .
she feels confidcnl in our s1:llT and she feels such a strong sense of confidence an •·b.11 M... :cc U11cr and
Tim Leonard luwc brought 10 1l1is concept . And. she 1101cd. th:u sl1c h:1s lLid a loe ala:mridencc in Skip
Miller for a long rime . Ms . Habc11icht sl:'ltcd 1h:11 she rc:tlly \\-:Jnls to sc:c Skip Millerde\-cl~ 1h1s into
such an exciting thing 1hat ii will just do \\anders for nil of us . She 5:lid she ra.lly th,nks 1M1 we :1rc !hen:
and she is sensing lhnt we arc all re.all} pulling 1oge1her :111d she ,,·:mts 10 mcn"C ahead \,i 1h 1hc contrnc1
with Deepwater. She stnlcd she lhinks th:11 we need lo move ahc.1d with Slup Miller 3nd titM! wnntcd 10
express her confidence !here. pcrson;i ll ) But. she snid . she th inks 1hcy nil need 10 pu.111ogc1her nnd JUSI
lets go on with it.
Mr. Miller slnlcd 1hn1 they h.ivc ~me big hurdles :md. :as Mayor Burns Dddrcsscd. he fdt they should
know in the 60 10 90 day period wh at 1hc si 111:ui011 with the g.1r:1gc is He sr.lled tha he and Mr. Leonard
10t rJ ly agree. and he w:mted to make sure C\'el)'Onc und ersland s. th.11 to get 1be density, which is mb.-ec:I
use. in the project, you need addi1i011:1I p;irki11 g Aud irthcy come tx1ck and find ous 1ha1 none or 1ha1
garngc is s.1Vable firmnci:tlly. we hn\'c go1 :rn crormous problem and we c:mno1 do that plan Thnl is ..-hy
ii hns become such a slnigglc.
Mayor Bums stated lhnl he rcmc,nbcrcd Marilee VIier lcl ling Council c:1rt ~ on. wbt.e\'cr you build on dUs
thing is going to depend 011 your p.irk111g. And how mnny component i,:tns JOU l'tnit: in this 1hing and
how eomples ii is. is going to depend on how much p:trking yon ha\'C. Mr Miller advised th:n when you
gel down 10 ii it COSIS :iboul $8,500 a sp.1ce llmt )'O Ii build , Ir you arc th ree. four or h\'C hundred spaces
shon ii is re.ii easy to get 10 the kind of 1111111bcrs 1h:11 you arc shon . M; . ~ 3ums Slti d he understands 1hn1
and so the bnll is in 1: cir court Mr. Miller s.1 id th ey need lo figure out :i l 'l~. \\hdl he did11·1 1h ink nas
going to be cJiffi cull. to decide h01·110 detennine whether thal gnragc is do:lb!e or acl. Becnusc . he potnled
our . once they do 1h:u 1hc11 their pl :11111ing would lake 011 c direction or ::moth.::rdirea.ion
Mayor Bums asked if they 1ho11gh1 1hcy could gi\'C Cou ncil thal answer III cb~s. Mr Mill er smd
absolulcly . He asked Mr Lco11:1rd if he lhou ght that was a problem Mr Leona rd Staled thnl he did no1
think that would be a problem :it all . Mr. Mill er nd\'i scd 111:11 !hey will be :;p:ndm:: most of their
preliminary studies 011 gelli ng 1ha1 garage issue done
City Manager Sc.,rs noted it is lat e for e\'cr;.body . that he 1houg h1 llu s 11:l:S bxz1 good d1 ,1loguc. b111 he
thought lhC)' 111igh1 \\Ork he ll er ,r the~ go 1 s0 111c1hi11g in ,,·riling. pcrh:1ps. from both or 1hem and ma~bc
look at the d.11c orFcbru:uy 2'..i to define what 1hcir rcl :11ionsh ip . roles :ind rcspoasibili1 1cs arc ;rnd \\hnl 1s
going lo be coming b:ick in 90 da)S . He op i11ed thal if III C)' c.111 co111e 10 t~ 3Z1d Council \\11 1 g1, e th e go
ahc.,J 10 do th :11 th ;u WC will 1110\'C lhis 10 lhe point to get 1he project 1110'\-ing.
Mr. Miller s.1id he reels \\ilh thi s dircc1i011. 1111fess Tim Lcon.ard dis.igre:s. 1tu11~ c:tn gc, 10gethcr
agreements and ge t 1hem c.'\:icl l) wh:11 the y \,:mt •
•
•
•
laclew_, C.ncll
J-,, Cl.lffl
..... 45
I nu ) ,11 houlf!jl.:Jn I
>! l,l1 I nw,ul
.. I
Council Mmlllcr Wnggoner said he would go one step funher. lhlll they haven concept that they know
has IO be ••ahd or changed a little bit, like Sony theaters or whoever ii is. that theater group. and Wal-
Man wirJodle i-going between . He osked them If lhcy couldn't gel Council somcihlng by the 9• that
llbows .-aaocbcr linlc plan that will ,.,,,tor is prcuy close 10 it or n co11ccp1. But , Council Member
Brad:slllr.-aoced. it is costing ii oul. Mr. Miller slated ii is both 1111d he 1old Council Member Wn~oncr
lbal. ill flim<:ss. lhat the local architect the:)· haven ·1 met with yet, leis been brought on with Tim lcoMrd
and Maim Una and he had a fairly signifi c:mt depanurc from Peter Calihorpc ·s idea or the way this
lhina-FUII IO look . He asked Tim Leonard iflimt was wrong . Mr. Lco,mrd said yes. that wo s frvc
ideas ia ... minulcs so you ca n'I pick one oul. Mr . Miller s.1i d 1hcy w:rnt the local archilect and he \Y25 just.,... say lhal he thinks if they hired ano ther guy. they 1111uld gel nnothcr pl an . Council Member
Wa&IDID"taid you arc going 10 gel another plnn. he could almosl gunrnruec it.
Mr.~ DOied that the cou~ lhcy arc on is 1h nt 1hcy arc not lhinking anymore. we arc doing. we are
i.rnp&cmeaaing what we h:i\'c. We nrc not s.,ying leis lake this pl:111 :rnd h:wc anolhcr idea .
Council Mcmbc:r' Waggoner sa a1cd 1hat is not wha1 he is s.1yi:1g . He s.1id lhcre is :1 1hc.11cr on 1ha1
plan ... llDW docs it fit here or do you nap i1 O\'cr a nd ri1 i1 ov,.r here . Th at. he 1101cd. is wh:11 Skip Miller
was wmc about.
Mr. MilJ:r SIied th.it one of his co ncerns w;1sjus1 simply turning lh al 90 degrees bccnusc lh cy liked ii for
lhci.r from door. rn.i1 was one issu e and 3 re.i i simp le one to de.ii \\ilh .
Council Mmlbcr" Waggoner Slated lhat in his opinion he needed 10 talk 10 Sony or show them 1his and S:Jy
alJ righl lloes-lhis work . And ifil is 1101 worki11g. then he though! they need ;1s a Council. :mo1her llnle
amcept plan that sa ys here is where it can go and now )OU can st :m cos1111g it out.
Mr. Milb stated. independe nt of,\h ic h \\.JY )OU tum tlmt themcr . 1hat th e main clement of thal plan 1s
th.11 c:enCi:Cr street. He asked Mr Wn ggoner. hypo1hc1icall y. lhal if SOU) came in a11d sai d ,,c don ·1 want 10
froot on (hat kind of street . wr. do11 ·1 want 111:1 11r.1mc bc1wcc 11 us .... then wl1:u do they do Counci l
McmbCii :aggoner stated th.11 1hc) s1:in 1h i11krn g ;1 lilllc more and move ii dow11 here aud s.1y \\1II that
\\'Ork.
Mayor 8iUrns staled 1h.11 he docsn ·1 wnm them 10 sfap a pl:111 1ogc1her b) the I"' of Feb runry th :11 docsn 't
mean all!lhing. He thought G.1ry Sc.1rs · request ,,.is rc.1som 1ble. If they cou ld have a concept of roles and
whalcvatbey arc goi ng lo do. and brin g it back 10 Council.
Mr. MilDcr aoted rhey did a plan so1nc 1ime ago . as tl1ey may n.'c:111 . tl1at wa s \\h:1 1 they ca ll ed 1heir TOD
plan. & said the)· looked :11 it a nd he 1lloug l11 1hcy liked this 011e belier . 8111. he co 1111ne111 ed. it hnd some
of those-elements in ii. II wa s prob;1bl) 5011{, be twee n. or ma )bc 70% 10,,ards TOD fr om :ill retail. Hi.:
pointed.ow: tha1 those arc the kmd s of1hi11gs lhC) have done ;md the) ha \'e sho,,11 Cou r cil some of1hose .
BuL Cow nciJ Membe r W,1g,go 11er saicl. 11 h:1 d th e c.l c11sc reSl(lc111 1al up 011 the 11onh li ,c ac ri.:s Ma)or
Bums~ th:11 clcmcms of these I\\O 1hi11gs. some,,hcre iu bc1,,ee11 ,,hat ~011 had ;rnc.l \\hat 1l11s is
He s:ud. dicy n::ilizc that. but he 1hougl11 thc) ,,ere S:I) ing to put 1he ba ll i11 1hcir co un ;md th e) can come
back to Counol \\i lh lhcsc allS \\l!fS
~i.e. Mil!l.=r meed tli.11 in fairn ess to Council and in fairness 10 th em. thi s is a \'i.!I')'. \'c ry dim c ult rn sk and
then: is mot a real cnsy answer for ii. TI1C) c:1 1111 01 just 1:1ke :1 piccc of pnpcr nnd chnngc ii and give us nll
lbcsc then.gs .ind make it \\Ork . He rcitcr:ucd that lh:11 is difficult ii is \'Cl')' difficult. He s.1id th ey ca n
forger lhmL lhat they ha,e some ,·c11 competent pe ople th.it arc st nigglin g wil h thi s Cou ncil Membe r
Haberudht a:sl.cd if I hey \\Crc up 10 it
J1aJewood Clly Council
January 19, 1998
P ■K• ol6
) 11)1,.,.,,..,.1~11 1
IU' 1l ,l111"1Hll1Ul t ·~ .,
Mayor B_urns \l"lcd Ibey had n housin& rcprcsc111a1i,,, hc:K°""'llii,i:!1111131 said wc are very inlcresti::d In
whal you are doing. gm 11~ gel nnswef' rronr people lilo: dial. •lldhcr )'OU have 10 phlue i1 or not ... nnd
1hey wen: rcndy 10 go ir llicy can do Uris .
Mr. Miller advised that thnt is 1101 lhc rc.1so11 )'Ou ph.isc i1 He said 1h.11 is a different issue.
Mayor Bums asked iftllcy can come back with whm Ga') Sc:usllLi.lS asked ror by the t• Mr Miller and
Mr. Leonard s.1id ye,.
City Atl(}mcy Brotzman said he hated 10 be the spoil spon. bu.11 1ey h.1,·c a lcncr of warning rrom Mr.
Goldberg and he is prcscnl. He asked Mr . Goldberg if1h,s tim.rfranrc works for him al all . Mr . Goldberg
staled thnt he is concerned . Mr . Broi.~man nskcd if it was 111:afl ,c GO or 90 days was taking 100 long , Mr .
Goldberg s1 .ucd he was 1101 conccmed nboul 1hc GO or 90-days. mt docs11·1 make or break the deal here.
He said it is the propensity of going from GO 10 ?O cfays 10 ck: something thm none of yo u h.ivc talked
about 1onisJ11. C.'(cept Mayor Burns . and that is th.11 i1 is one thcng 10 stan with the plan , prove it up with
cost. Bui. he said. it is in his experience quile an-.>thcr thia._g 10 prt)\'C it up wilh martccl. He said he is
concerned 1ha1 !he project won't move fonvard until the mane.a ac1 1s you that it will and th,1 1 is going 10
take quite some time . Mayor Bums asked Mr. Leonard irpartd 1h.1t isu ·1 the lencrs or imcnt and the
other things they were talk111g about hen:. Mr, Lcon.,rd s:ad t&ul u:chniclly in 1he1r six month issue you
do this stuff in the 90 days wi th some inpul from lhc maru:l. bun )OU finish the iter.uion s with the market
in thal time frnmc . Mayor Bu ms said he lhought 1hc dc,,'doptruen pl:1111hey were talking abo111 wns
exactly ll1at 1 th.11 )'OU know your market. bccnusc 1hcsc pcq:,k :lift' v1rt11u ll)1 signed up or have letters of
intent and you know who is going 10 co me in !here. Mr. Lccmwx1 s:iid in six months.. yes.
City Attorney Bro!Zma n nsked. as they lta\'e heard 111 s concern. :an d 1hcy have a lc11 cr or warning :md. Skip
Miller is doing this and Tim Leonard is checking 011 lu m. if tlll!)' arc add ressing !his um c rr.unc now in
where we arc going . Mr. Miller said 1ha1 is why he s:1id ii is cil!f1ieu l1. He noted they h;wc suggcs1cd 1he
plan rc.11l y needs the following elcmc111s 1hcy have .111 ag,ra::cf ut;)O II . the Wal •Man . TOD .111d rapid 1rn11si1
and City H.111 . He stated th ey nrc tr:l'ing 10 make all of1hosc W<O:Tk. He co1 nme111cd that. .1s he s.1 id cnrlicr .
one of his concerns is if i i !urn s 0111 1hat City Hall COSIS yo:a 1wnte "hal )OU 1llought. 1ha1 ~011 \\ill co me
back :md tell me we c.1 11 ·1 du 11. 10\\ gel another pl;111 That.. Ile-staled. \\Ould busl 1hc 11111c fram e So . he
said. they arc going to pu1 tholl 011 Cou11 c1l. He asked \\hca Cw unc 1l \\Ould 1cll them 1f 1he~ arc go in g 10
build a City Hall the re Council Membe r Wa ggo ner sud be !lk111g lu 1h~ h:l\c 10 go ,,11h Cil) Hall .
period . Council Member Habcnicln said )CS Co1111 ci l Manhcir Br.1d sh:m said that is ;1 gi,en
City Manager Sc.1rs advised that we nrc down 10 ri n: 1111m;C\\ls fo r an nrchi1cc1 and we sho ul d have that
architect on board the rirs1 p.1n ofFcbnmry. He asked Dire:ma Ester!) if that wa s co rrect. Mr. Esterly
stated that th ey saw lhe propos.11s from the arcllitcc1s 1h1s. a!tennoon. 1he) will talk :1bout 1hcm tomorrow
morning nt s1nff;1nd SCI 111ce1ings for l;11cr this week He indicmcd th ~y will probably i111en1icw c.1rly 11e."1
week .
Council Member Waggoner uotcd th :11 mosl of 1hc people bc-h.us 1:1lkcd to arc agreeab le and he think s we
have to go with ii. Unle ss. Ci ty Manager Scars s:1id. for Sl:'r1'J1.. ,..c:1 s,:,r. th e arc h11cct "ou ld s;1y th:11 1he
sp.1cc alloc:11ionsj11s1 wo11'1 \\Ork . Mr Mill er :isi,.cd 1f pni::c. ·w.u1 h1n re;1so 11 . is not a subjcc1 . M:1~or Bum s
co mment ed thnt th ey ca11·1 be C.'(pcc lcd to s;1~ pncc 1s oo obJct:r Mr Miller sa id he would11 ·1 mcnt1011 any
names, but coincidcmally. he lalkcd with 01,e or those Ii, :u.cliu 1ccts and he think s 1h:111hing is goi ng 10
cos t at least double wh:11 they arc proposing . Cn~ Ma na!,~ Si.::iU'S st a led th:it he fell 1hnt \\.1S the type of
thing they need to ha\'c the ilrchi1cc1 lcll th em. Mr. r-.till cr agr..:cd tha l \\:JS ri ght. but that he \\ilS just
asking ifthal prove s oul. wh ere arc we Co111 1ci l McmOCr 8 r:1dSh;m said th ey shou ld•··, do i1.:'.·1rs.1y Mr.
•
•
•
l•lltwood City Cooncil
Ja•ury 19, 1!198
Pap'7
Millcrcommcn1ed tlull tluu wns not hcnrsn y, tl ull he heard ii. Mnyor Burn s 1101ccl llml Ibey ca n't deal
with thal .
City Manager Scors suggested they sec if1hcy con pull 1ogc1hcr th is co111bi11cd ngrccmcnl. with specifics,
to come back to Council on February 2' .... so they c.111 give lhe authori 1.a1ion to proceed under lhosc
suiddincs.
Mr. Miller said they will do lhnt. but he wanted 10 just throw out the one caveat , thnl in fairness to them .
that if they nuke that big of a ch.ingc they arc going to have to underst and lhnt cvcl')1hing 1hcy arc doin g
will go down the dra in. Agnin , he nolcd . in fa irn ess 10 Council they arc throwing out 1hcir ca utions .
lna1. he rcilcmtcd . will be a very difficult thing 10 get done.
COUNCIL MEMBER CLAPP MOVED, AND IT WAS SECONDED, FOR COUNCIL TO GO
INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION TO DISCUSS ONE PERSONNEL MATTER.
Motion carried .
Ayes : Council Members Nabhol1-G:urcll, Bradshaw, Haben icht
Wnggoncr. Clapp. Burn s
Nn ys: No11c
14 . City Attorney'~ Rcp ur1
City Auomcy Bro121n.111 did not h.tvc any m;1 11crs 10 brin g befo re Coun c1I
15. Adjournment
Co unci l recessed to Ex ecut ive Sess ion at 11 :.i n pm