HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-05-06 (Regular) Meeting MinutesCall to Onltr
SNGLIEWOOD CIT\' COUNC IL
ENGU:WOOD,ARAPABOICOUNTY,COLORADO
11,plars..ioo
May 6, 1996
> J
The regular meeting of the Englewood Ciry Council -called to order by Mayor llunu at 7:)9 p.m.
111c invocalion was given b)• Council Member Wiggins.
Pledge of Allcgb.acc
The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Mayor Bums .
4. Roll Call
Present
Abstnt
Council Members Halhal111y, Clapp, Wiggins. Habenicht.
Vormiltag, Waggoner, Bums
• A quorum was present.
None
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Minvtn
Also pn:scnt Ciry Manager Oarlt
Ciry Allomey Brotzman
Assistan1 lo the City MaMgcr Grace
Ciry Ocrt Ellis
Neighborhood and Business Devclopmcnl M•oagcr Simpson
Neigbbomuod Communi1y Coordinalor Graham
Director Fonda, Utilities
Ciry Labor Collrucl Scn,~l c
Planning Community Coordinator Slilt
Di\ision ChicfMoorc
(a) COUNCIL MEMBER HATHAWAY MOVED, AND IT WAS SECONDED, TO
APPROVE THE MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF APRIL 15, 1996.
Motjo n carried.
Ayes : Council Members Hathal111y , Vom1i11ag , Wiggins. Habenicht
Waggoner. Clapp . Bums
Nai>= None
()_ SthNlul~d Visitors
(a) Tom Buescher. lhc allomci• n:pn:scnting the Englewood Police Bcncli1 Association .
addressed Council regarding Age nda llem 11 (a) (i i) -Council Bill No . 2 1. He s.1id 1his Council Bill
deals ,nth lhc appeal process and hearing office r process that is now tciug subslilulcd fo r the Caree r
Service Board as a r<SUII of lhc reccn1 Charla --.-L Ho aW, • a little bil of bocllground, a draft
of 1his ordinance was prDYided 10 the Assoc:ialioo for -• dlcy mode IOlllC comments ls .alf
and \'irtual ly ,-'<f)1hing !hey oommenlod on wu c:banpl In one ny or IIIIOlhcr basically ooosistenl wilh
!heir reqUCSI exccpl one lhing. He advised thM lllal one lhin& is spocilically paragraph E. on page live of
lhc onhnancc. which deals wilh tl1c aulhorily of the hearina olf'10CJ wbcll lhc hearing officer bca1I an
appeal. Anomey Buescher said lhc Chancr provides and has always p,ovidod, even w!len ii was a Car,,er
Service System. for whal Is called in lhc Charier a mcril system al cmploymcn1 in lhc Cily ol:Englcwood.
He advised Iha! is in lhc cum:nl Chancr Section 138 :2. He staled Iha( lhc pwpo,c of hl\lin:\ a mcril
system is fundamcnially 10 make sure lha1 lhc Ci1y ol Englewood bas lhc mool oompctcnl cm, >loyecs
pcrformina services far lhc Ci1y and il's citizals • -'ble· He said Ille Chancr Usu Vlrioui ,'linp lhal
arc parts oflha1 mcril system . The Chane,, be poinlod ouL says you will hire on lhc basis of meri; •od
ability . you "ill promolc on lhc basis of rr.oril and abilily , lhcre will be training 10 improve performance,
and !here "ill be job rdalcd appraisals and a systan for evaluating mnil and abilily. And be added Iha( ii
says lhal no cmplO)u shall be subject 10 discharge e.ccpl for jull cause. Mr. Buacbcr oommcnl<d Iha&
just cause is a 1crm of an in lhc cmploycrlemplO)u business in botb the private and lhc public 1'CClor. He
said ii has a ,-cry long history a."'1 includes ,-.nous lhings . Some of the most imponan1 of which arc
having C\idcnce of"rong doing or v,or """' pcrfor:nancc. pl'O'idmg lhc proper prrccdurcs before
discipline. letting 1be emplO)u know Ullll lhc crnplO)U has eoppd in misc:onduCL pl'O'iding for
progressi.-e discipline. generally a conccpl associa1od \\ilhjusl cause. He mai nlAincd Iha! IIIOlhcr a,ocep<
associa1cd with j ust cause is whether the punishmcn1 fits the crime. He said the reason I hat is lhcrc is to
prevent an employee. w!lo may h.a,·c violalcd some minor rule. from getting terminated for that when that
may be 1he only blemish on lhc cmplO)'OCS long worl< ra:onl. He DOlod Iha! tbal is what tl•.c a,nccp1 or
punishmenl filS lhc crime is and lhat has loo& been a pan of just cauac in both 1be publi c and pri»le
sector. He Ol)incd Iha! one or lhc lhings 1ha1 pangnph E docs is ii removes Iha! pan from lhc concept of
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just cause and it is no longer going 10 be a factor in lhc hearing ollic:ers decision . He said Iba! ii says u · •
\'Cry spccificall ) h)' saiing iflhe hearing office, finds lha1 lhcre is a factual basis for lhc allegations that
loci 10 the discipline . 1hcn the hearing officer simply docs DOI i-c lhc autboril)' lo change lhc di S<1p li nc .
Anomey Buescher reminded Council Iha! he had made lbe a,-tbal one of !he lhings Iha! just cause
prc\'cnts is SC\ ... tt discipline for minor offenses. He said. for example. not wearing yo ur seatbelt in
,iola1ion of a Ci!)· rule He said he can probably bear.-of Cowx:il llb,tking lha1 none of lhe
appoinling aulhori1ics in the Cily ofEnglewood """Id do something like lhal and he said ma)1x: lhcy
won '1 However. he noted, that whal they \\il l do. based on his cxpcricnce in dealing with cities,
Englewood and man) olhcn. in lhc mc1ropoli1an area. is say lhcre is an allegation lhal an employee has
engaged in theft. a \'CT)' serious offense and in lhc process of im-cstigating Iba! allcga1 ion lhcy find 1hat
lhe employee has engaged in lhefl and also find Iha! lhc employee has ,iolai cd some olher rule for
example not wearing a sca1bel1. He staled lhat when Iha! emplo;u is disciplined bolh oflhose rul e
,iolations \liill be \\Tit1cn up . He commcnlcd that that is si mply a guararucc. 11 happens all the lime and
he said it could be arp-cd that if ii 1sn 't done that way that the appointing authority is not doing his or her
job. He slated Iha! given !hat scenario then oran cmplO)U Iha! is accused oflhcft and accused of not
wearing tl,c ir s.catbcl1 gctS fired . II lhcn goes lo lhc bearing officer, lbc bcanng officer hears all of 1he
C\idencc and concludes 1ba1 the employee did DOI engage in lbcft. but ooocludcs lhal lhc employee did rail
to wear lhcir sca1belt. He staled lhat lhc hearing officer has no cboice. under lhc language of Ibis
ordinance but 10 "1.<ta in lhc 1cnnination. lhal's i~ end of ROI)". Ile DOied Iha! in good failh lhc cily made a
dclcnnination 1hat 1herc was lhcft, bul as ii lums <Mil lhc hearing officer was not pcmtadcd by lhe
evidence . And he noted th.at C\'Cn thou gh the only offense left is something minor, like not wearing a
seatbelt . the cmpl o~cc is tcnninated . He s.iid a slight variation on that. and he a>mmentcd that it is sad to
say that thcsc 1ypcs of things also go on by employers in this coun~ and in this area , is that the
111\·cstigation into the theft charge leaves lhl! appointing authority sa)ing well l'm not sure w: really got
that but we've got the employee on failing to wear lbc seatbelt . So . he maintained , they "'ill fire the
em pl oyee alleging !heft and fai ling to wear 1hc sealbclt , because even if lh~ can·1 prove lhe lhefl lhc
employee is gone because they can prove the employee Wdn't wear the seatbelt ~tr . Bucschct stated the •
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result of lhls Ofdinanoe i, IO ranovc flom tlio mrrit 5)'l1CIII ollhil City a upificul ,.n aljoiot....,
which the Charter requi,... He Aid llooy clo • bcllcw 1h1111111 I• in the -vltbe ~ or of
Ille dlizens 10 tllow that 10 happen. lie Aid"""" tbe CWRlll w,pqo--_.., 111m I few days
ago In preparll~.>0 for this .-in1 taai&),I. Ilic -Idler poialod out that Ille Clllncr ...i IO provide
for modilic:adon and since 11111 -..,..ias 11111 -. lbal obvloully Cily c-:iJ ......W IIOI wana IO
adopt ,omclhln1 that had )UII beea rqalod II), the ciU-. He said the 1osic: IDUllds FOCI M the lac:tJ
an: wron1. He mainlained 11111 the a..vw i...... tha1 wu repealed in wllal IIIOd IO be Sec:lio• 138:4
paragniph H did not talk about ,pccift~ly modil'yb,1 or not modifying, 1h11 ii jul1 lllud about JIii! Qwc.
And he Aid 1h11 thc onllnanoe In ffllllt vlCouadl bu 1h11 idcnlical )an,uaae in ii in puapaph A. So he
nwnlaincd lhal thc concepl 1h11 -in tbe Clllncr IIIOI -repealed. 11 pan oCthil IOlal revision of the
system. did not ,pcclfic:ally SI)' the aodific:alion wooJd be allowed II), thc bcariq c,jf,ca if 11,o bearing
officer c:oncludod that thc penally -too ....,. for thc crime. He Aid lbcrc ii ll0lhilc ia lllal VOi< that
pn:vcnu Council from aying we an, going IO IIIO RIil just C1U11t horc and,.....,...., IO allow lhost
hearing offic:m. if they an: aJDYiNlOd tbll ii ii u impproprialt penalty, IO say no 1h11 aaployce
shooldn 'I have been fire or shouldn't ha\,. beea GM" a lhirty day aispcmion orwbawr ii DIil' be
because that is not consistent "ith jUSI -. Mr. Buescher SIited they ask lllat Council ao1 approve the
language as cumntly worded. that tlley expRSdy allow thc bearing ollm IO make lhal .--n
\\-hic:h Is c:onsiSlcnt -..itb jUII c:amc . 0ac other point he Did. is 11111 he has clcalt \litb vinllally CVCI)'
municipal jurisdiction in the rncm,,o(iWI area <Mr thc paSI twenty )'CIR in ooc form or -ii.,,
representing either employees or aax:iations. and t~is is to his knowkxlgc the only mdo ...,.ision that
exists in any of those cities thM have merit l)'S1ems. u _11 ha\'c career 5Cl'Vice or civil acnict or merit
systems . Englewood, he said, would be lbe only city that would have tied the bands vi .... orulral body
tliat is suppose to dctenninc whcthc, there has bocnjust cause for imposing the disc:ipli-. Attorney
Buescher stated that on behalf afthc EnaJn'OOd Police Association be asked 1h11 Couacil DDt approve the
ordinance worded in that way, that Council amend it to allow modification b)· bcariJ,g oGiccrs if the
hearing officer believes that thc evidence so warranu and on that basis then have• sySl<III that is
consistent -..ith the just cause provisions al the Chancr.
Non-sc:h<dulrd Vlsilon
(a) Helen Brundage.◄ I~ South Huron SlltCI, said she has lived there about 24 ycan and
has played golf at the EnglC\l'IJOd counc since iu incepdon . She said on May J'" sbe ,.u, to the golf
course to play and was asked for her EngJe,-'IJOd idcntific:,tion and die did DOI ha,-c an Eaglcwood c:un-cnt
card as it had c.,-pircd . Thcr-cfore. 5hc said . she was classified as non-resident e,-cn tbou&J> she had
adcquatr idcntllic:ation as she had her dth-cn littnsc and passpon \\ith bc:r. It did DOI make any
difference she said . it was not acuptable. Ms. Brundage said there were many friends •ith her who could
11k:n1tfy her . Bob Burgener, Jack Poole. Edith Romans and so fonh . She said her question is is Englewood
so strapped for money that it needs 1"-o dollan fr-om a httle old lady in golf ,:pikes 10 make things c:ome
out even . She said she thinks it is unfair that Englewood makes citi:zcns get an Englc1'ood identific:ation
ca rd 10 panicipate in the activities ofEnglC\l'IJOd. She said she thinks that the City Cbancr probabl)' state s
that all Council members must be residcnu of the City of Englewood. the:-cfor sbe resp:afully a sited if al'
of Council , this evening. have their Englewood identification card . Council Member Vomunag and
Council Member Hathaw.iy SAid the)' ha\-c their cards . Mayor Bums advisul that 1hr. City Manager has
her name and address and 1'ill be responding 10 her Inquiry She "'id nothing wos ac:ceptabk: for her
cxcr r 1 her Englewood idcnlificatton card. She said her pas5J"• ·n l J t her into third world a:,untrics ~l it
c:out. not get her into the Engl°" ood Golf Course . She said •he ,.:ally "-ondcrs if Mn. lbbcnicht is
qual1hed 10 scr"c on Council this cHrui~ as she docs: OOl hne lk r card. Council Member Habenicht
producc:d her ca rd . Ms. Brundage thanked Coonctl
(b) Linda Cohn . 305 1 Soutl1 Marion Street. sai d he has practJad law m the C11y of
Englewood fo r about 16 years She said she echoed Ms Brunc:..g.e ) frusuaooo because C\'Ct) lime she
goes to the rec center bcr card bu expired or is loll or ~•I-But sbe said tbat is not why she is
here. She said she .... llkeo • look at the PUD that C,aanal is takina a look II IOllipt. Mayor Bums
IIMICd that Council will be conductina • public bearing 011 thc PUD lhil ewnin&, Ms. Brundaac Did she
knew 1h11. bul because she was not sure 1be a,uld Ila)' WI loag IO she wanted IO siw CGllnciJ her
lbough15. Mayor Bumi a.ired Ms . Cohn she Clll ,peak. loit lhal loo jwl WUIOd 10 rcmilld her she WIS
not In the .,..,lie bearing if she wanlS to spcalt now. ML Calm said thal what she Ml llnd by ill looking
at this is just Ille lack or .,..,lie input unlil we get to Ille vay e..i or tbe Pl.ID . She said whoo you are
lallun1 about raoninJ a half aac 0< man: and when abe looked II lhis PUD plan tbcre is no public inP<,I
until the vay md. She pointed out we hne sllll' looking • plans, we have plans beiJ1a a,mplcted. th,n
they go to zonina and "1, sai d she thinu wc have to bne lbt public input a lac ar\ier in the prooess . She
said she guesses she is looklng at particularly the Cinderdla City ralcvclopmenl .,., abe thinks thal ,,.,
,-1 to look at ,..bat public inpul is going to be if CindclUla City would be tn:ated as a PUD. She llid ,:,e
thinks ii is really unfair 10 the dt,'tlopcr as well as the citizcas or Englewood 10 not have tllc public :nput
until,.,. have all or these plans dr.iwn, wc have everyone set in wlaat they want IO l,o and WO llaw,i 't bad
an oprortunity to lalk about what this land i1 going IO be IIIOd for. Sloe uid basically in the PUTJ you an:
Ible to al.lcM· an>tbing that would be all.....t>le anywhcn, in the City . She said she •hinks that,,., occd IO
look II whlt impaa that has on the dilfCTelll communities around the PUD site and she u,;:,u •.hat ....
,_ to do It earlier in the process so 1ha1 developer£ and ownen an: not spch<iir.g peat deals or moocy in
doing something that the citizens of Englewood an: glling to object IO. She ""led tha1 she thi nks we need
to ha>·c the cilizl:n input earlier to prolt:ct tbc cilizcos as well as 10 protect tl,c developers so that everyone
-~ wllcre ,.,, are coming fiom . e>el)-one Imo,.,'-IO shajJe tbese plans and,.,. bave City stair doing
an nful lot of shaping of these plans and she said she is DOI IICing any citizen inpuL Ms. Cohn said that
when she looks at the intcnl pan of lhe SlalUte on page °"' or the ordinance we have ICvell1 pons of
in1cnt. bas ically tbos< are all fine inlents. bul she said she docs DOI see all)tbing in here that provides for
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public input She said she would ju'1 ask •he City CoWICil to like a look at this, not pas, Ibis onlinancc •
tonigh1 bul to wait until the May 20• date. which is her undCIStaDding of•hcn they are aaually to pass it.
look al the issue of how ,.,. are going to have citiun input at III earlier point in time. Sbe said if you look
at page three public input is at the end , page se>cn public input is at the end and page eight public input
os at the end . She noted that EnglCl\ood is a small a= and,... do not ba,,. a lot or pieces of land that thi s
is going to apply 10 and we need to really look at how we arc going 10 io\'olvc the citizens and allow them
some reaJ input.
Mayor Burns achiSICd that Council has already scheduled four public meetings 011 Cinderella City. which
an: going to occur ac,ually before the formali zed City process pr..-ls. Two this montl1 and two next
month and those .. ,11 be announced shortly. He said he thinls Council can ask sWT 10 address the
question Ms . Cohn raised. al the publi c hearin g "hen they make comments initial!)•.
(c ) Cheryl Hutchison , a business agent ,.;th AFSCME for the EngJCl\ood Employees
Association. said she is here to lalk again abou t lhc appeals process thal is going in and about the bearing
officer and what the)· have the n ght 10 do at the hearing, She sai d thal they no longer have the right to
modify, which was stated very "~II by Mr. Buescher this evening. so she said she will not lake a whole lot
of time But she said she docs n.,,, 10 say that they fed the san,c way, thal the hearing officer should have
the nght to modify . She naced thal if\\~ arc hirin g c:ompctcnl hearing officers. which WIS one oflhc
rcasoM that we ""-cnt to this type or system , we have to gi\"C the faith to the hearing officer that lhey >Aili
do c.xact ly whal they arc hired to do 3n d that is to find the righ1 avenue .
Commu■kaltOlla. Proclam1tion1 and Appointmntt
(a) COUNCIL MEMBER HA THAW AV MOVED, AND IT WAS SECONDED, TO
ACCEPT WITH REGRET JOSEPH B. HARTMAN 'S LElTER OF RESIGNATION FROM THE
CLEAN, GREEN AND PRO UD COMMISS ION . •
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Motion carried.
Ayes: Council Mulbor1 Halhlway , Vom,IU.., Wlgiu, Hllbeaiclll,
Waggoeer. Clapp, Bums
Nays: None
(b) A proclamation declaring May 23 . 1996 as Amur Day in the City of Englewood was
considered.
COUNCIL MEMBER HA TBA WAY MOVED, AND IT WAS SECONDED, TO APPROVE A
PROCLAMATION PROCLAIMING MAY 23, 1996 AS ARBOR DAY IN THE CITY OF
ENGLEWOOD.
Motion carried.
Ayes · Council Members Hathaway, Vonnitug. Wiggins. HabcnicbL
waa,,-. a.pp, Bums
Nays : None
Mayor Bums prescnled the proclamation to the Director orParu and Recreat ion Jenell Black .
(c) A proclamation supporting the re-naming or the gn,cn"~Y along the South Plane River
through Arapahoe County as the Mary Caner Greenway was considered.
COUNCIL UNANIMOUSLY MOVED AND SECONDED, TO APPROVE THE
PROCLAMATION SUPPORTING THE RE-NAMING OF THE GREENWAY ALONG THE
SOUTH PLATTI: lllnR THROUGH ARAPAHOE COUNTY AS THE MARY CARTER
GREENWAY.
Mayor Burns commented that Mary Caner "-as dedicated to this project and unfortunately plSlled away
.... ru1c in office as the Mayor of Bow Mar.
Motion carried
Ayes Council Members Hathaway, Vonnittag. Wiggins. Habcrucb L
Waggoner. Clapp. Bums
Nays : None
(d) A proclamation declaring the week or May 12 lhrough 18 , 1996 as Englcmiod Lions
Club Week., in honor of the organization 's 70111 anniversary . was considered .
COUN CIL MEMBER HATHAWAY MOVED, AND IT WAS SECONDED, TO PROCLAIM THE
WEEK OF MAY 11 THROUGH 11 AS ENGLEWOOD LIONS CLUB WUK.
Motion carried .
Ayes : Counal Membcn Hathaway, Vonnittag. Wiggins, Habenicht ,
Waggoner. Clapp. Bums
Nays · None
Mayor Bums noted he has been asked to ancnd their special lw,ch on the 70~ anruvtl'SII)' and the formal
presentation of the proclamation \o\i ll occur at lhal time .
(e) A proclamation dcclanng the wed. or Ma y 1;.~ through the IM~ as National Pohcc
Weck and May 15~ as Peace Officers Memorial Da)
COUNCIL lll&DER RAT'.dAWAV MOVED.AND ITWAS sr.CONDED, TO PRl)CLAJM THE
WEEK OF MA V 12 THROUGH II IN ENGLIWOOD AS NATIONAL POUCE WEEK AND
SPtcmCALL V DESIGN AT£ MA V IS, 1996 AS PEACE OmCERS MEMORIAL DAV.
Motion carried.
A)'cs : Coonc:il Mcmbcn llathaqy, Vorminag, Wigins, Habonich~
Wagoner, Clapp. Bums
Na)~: None
Mayor flunls prcscnted lhc procl ■m1tion 10 Division Chief Moore .
9. "'lllicH .. ri•&
(a) COUNCIL MEMBER HATHAWA V MOVED, AND IT WAS SECONDED, TC'
OPEN 'llU: P J BUC HEARING TO GATHER CT11UN INPUT ON PROPOSED
AMENDMENTS TO THE COMPREHENSIVE ZONING ORDINANCE R£LA T1VE TO
PL-\NNED UNIT DEVELOPMENTS.
Aya: Cooncll Memom HalhD'I)', Vonniltag. Wigins, Habcnich~
W01&o<,cr, Clapp, Bums
Na\'S: N(lnc
Motioo carried and the public hearin~ opened .
All lcstnnony •-as gi>-cn under "1th.
Ncighbonood Community Coordinator Graham. pn:scnlal a proposal to amend lhc En&)cwoo..1 Municipal
Code by duninating lhc PD provisions and adopti ng a n,w Planned Unit Dcvclopmcnl diSlria. He staled
the proposed ocw PIJD process would occur in three stages. An 1pplican1 who proposes 10 build a
signific.tal pn,;ect "ill first CO<ltact Sllffwith a description oflhc project lllffwill gi,e lhtm an initial
response o{what prD\isions of Englt1'ood policies. ordinances. design rtandards, and so fonh. apply.
After tlw.. be stated. the developer can choose whether or not to make a significant commitment of funds
by op11ooing lhc properly or by paying for extensive cngi-ring or an:hitcctural designs. He advised that
in the oc.,1 state of the process. the applicant would go for lhc approval of a district plan . A district plan,
he notCI! is a rezoning. unlike the cum:nl process and that is one of the main distinctions . He staled }'OU
must mo.:s 1.bc criteria for a rezoning in order to gel lite approval of a district plan. And the dir.uict plan
becomes the bcnchmarl< 10 measure the rest of the process by . II establishes the land USC5. establishes the
approximate locations of the major uses. the acc:css points.. and a whole list of things I hat arc specifically
listed in tlus ordinance . n,c third stage is the site plan stage. At the site plan ,ugc, you ·u be getting an
even greater lc,-cl of dct.ail . Al Iha! point, he stated. the dcvelop<r has made a commiuncnl ID do all of the
design SWldards for the buildings. the building f■cadcs. the~ pl ■ns, aii of the SUI\'<)' work, and,
you ' c looking at pretty much the full sci of de,-eJopmcnl plans . Mr. Graham noted that thc reason it
progresses this "''3)' is that it is intended to mirror what the developer has to do to dc\'tlop a project, you
stan olf "'th the conccpl . you gel an initi•I buy-in to the concept and you go 10 the district plan . He staled
1ha1 if the Planning Commission. through public hearings. and City Council appm--c the district plans,
you can procttd "'th the site plan . Mr . Graham noted U..i l it is po· siblt to lake the district plan and the
site plan through coocurrcntly. that they arc two separate docision, You need the approval of the land
uses first. then you gee the approval of the specifics that an: listed in the site plan. Consequcnlly, he
explained. in the case of a project that \\~nled lo be !1st uadtcd. they would still handle it in the l\\O pan
process. dJstnct plan . si 1c plan -distri ct plan leve l of dclails first . site plan level of details next. He said
they think that tlus 1i. the 1001 that gives you signi ficant assurances about the kind of dc\'clopmenl, and the
qualit~ of dc\.,.Jopmcnt. in Englewood and that this is the 1001 that lhc Pla:i ning Commission needs in
ord er 10 C'\-aluatc the projects Mr. Graham commented that in .11.nuary they stancd workmg with the
Planning Commis.srnn and submiltcd a draft of the ordinance and had two hearings tha1 were dC\'Olcd to
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lliaf-• City Cendl
Mly6, 1,9'
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diSCUSUJl&jllil lhc planned unit dovdopmenl ordina:e. He IUled that they beJjeyt they hive•-
all or the Commlsalons concerns and the Commillioe Im ,uppcncd lhil bill with a unanlDIOII> '* of
appJOYll. ask.in& Council to tONidcr adopting this cwdinance. Mr. Onham clariflcd that a PUD ~-)'Oil
two things, it describes a proccsa where you get your '.Md me and your ,pecillc lite ;,Jans 11.'r:'O"...S. and it
describes the submi1tal RqUiremcnts. He added tlw it tells you what lm:I of doowncntation )'OU a.I 111
what Sll&C in the pro<.,.., He Slated that they arc asking C'.ouncll lo toke the public comments and to
schedule a vote for May 20•, to adopt this that would lake dl"cct thirty days after publication.
Mayor Bums asked Mr . Gnham to adllrcs,; the question that Linda Cohn railed earlier about when public
input occurs and whether her pcrctplion that it's ve,y late in the process is IICCW'lllo, Mr. Gnhaa1 opncd
that lhcre arc opportunities to lake more public comments ifwe wanted to inscn provisions like that here.
He staled that he wanted to first address where the public would have an oppMUJtil)' lo comment in the
bill as ii is wri1ten . Mr. Gnham cxplalr.cd that ll each Slagc of approval , beyond lhe p,e-pluutlng stage.
there is public inpul, that the Planning Commission lltarings on the d;striCI plan -1d include an
opportunil)' for the public to r<view the plans and commcnl in publi,, hearing. He added that Council
appnl\'II of the district plan would also provide another oppor1unil)' and the Plaoning Commission phase
of the site plan and the Council phase of the site plan approval would be thil d and four1h opponunitics for
public comment . Ma)1>r Burns noled thal that is I prelt)' ncnnal process. Ill,. Graham commenlcd 1ltlll
1ha1 is a significant amount of public comment One question, he noted. thu a:>mcs 10 mind is how early
can you submil a conceptual plan for review when you're still working oul Hhcth,;r or nol they're meeting
tlv! basic standards of lhc Ci1y, that ii may be premature.
Manager of Neighborhood and Business Dcvelopmcnl Simpson noted that he wan1ed 10 expand on this a
li1tle bit He staled that they really did work towards a series of goals in the !)f<)mnlgation of this
ordinance . He assured Council that one of I hem. ,,_ ccnainly. was lo ensure citizen input He noled
thal this is the fim time they have heard Ms . Cohn's amuncnts and that is very interesting to Slaff. Mr.
~Impson ad,i~ •1.al 5Ulfl" feels 1hat lhis is not only a normal process, but that it actually provides for
~ .. ,11cr lc\-c1, a·. ,~1po.1unitics 10 talk , because you're able to h,,ve a series of public hearings .,.;lh the
f'!a1ming Corr mi ssion and City Council, just as )'OU do today , on a11 the rczoriings . He opined •.hal
i,.,;ause of then.:::-of PUD 's that you will ha\"e the oppor1unil)' lo ha\'e the dovdopcr really engage in a
public dialogue with the neighborhoods on this. He ;;,id the only thing he might suggest is if there is
rcall) significant (;Onccrn thal what mighl help is that there "'mid pos,:bly bear. opportunil)' to provide
for sligbtl~ more ci1izcn input than )1>U currently have on anything now by rcquirir~ the developer to lalk
with the citi1,cns or the neighborhoods that may b: affected in advance of .. n :tcccptance 'lf an application .
Mr. Simpson said you could call ii • neighborhood meeting, bul thal \\'Ollld really be quite a bil more , and
that's not unheard of. Responding ro Mayor Burns.. Mr. Simpson noted tl\81 il is not unheard of as a
formalized proccs,. 1ha1 ii ""uld be an additic,naJ step above He noted they were keeping ii in line wilh
other similar proc~scs here in Englewood, but that woul d be a possible option that Council CX>Uld oonsidcr
on this. Council Member Habenicht asked wbr.rc that \\'OUld go . Council Member Waggoner said prior to
the d1stric1 plan . Mr. Graham a<hiscd 1ha1 staff would be "illing lo work oul lhe details of the
nolifica1ion area and inscn a provision into this document requiring a neighborhood notificalion meeting
iflha1 ·s Council'~. wish
Mayor Bums asked how IV.!",:· members of Counci l felt about this . Council Member Habenicht stated she
thought that wou ld be good an,. Council Member Vonnitt~g concurred . Council Member Wiggins S&atcd
th :H "'hat is goini: on is standard operating proctSS and he did not know wt \\'CfC having a problem with
Ma ~or Bunts nolt:d that the question addressed the citizen input issu1.•. and it might be something Council
would like to do. He s:ud th e Housing Authorit) 1s doing this right now on ils plnn just nonh of !he office .
Mr Simpso n s.1i cl th al ~cs thcv arc and he comm cnlcd that in some ways what they arr suggesting here is
very ,. milar io INII pr-. Ibey m holdin1 tllll neip,l,orhood mocuna on tbat block. and this -.Id
mirror thll kind ol dirrctioa, Council Mcmllcr Hallenichl Jaid thal IIOUnds good and Ml)'llf Bwns uld he
lhinks ii is I good idea. Council Member Waui,ncr asked if ii couldn'ljust be called I public m,lew
forum, or somothin& like lhat. Mr. Simpson Jaid ptrllapo a neighborhood ~g, neigN,o,bood meeting
requirement
t,•ayor Bums said be .ad another question aboul lhe sile plan . He DOied thal he remembered there were
d:tTcrcnl levels of re,iew and asked if ii is Slall'deu:nnination of how far tha1 nccdcd 10 go. Mr. Graham
responded 1ha1 lh<:re are some opponunities for flexibility in lbc procas. He noted that if lhc: Planning
Commission makes thal decision , if Plannin& Commission decided ii wasn '1 noc:cswy ror them to review
lhe Sile plan, Ibey aruld waive lhe formal silt plan review and request thal Slall'do thal part of the review .
Ciiy Auomey Brownan c:larified thal lhe Planning Commission r.a,. '"8lte a r=mmendation 10 Council
10 y,ai\'C the 5itc plan review. Council actually docs the waiving lithe site~ under the wncnt one .
Council Member Hathaway asked if lhe final decision lhen would rest ,-;lh Planning and Zoning after
Ibey reques1 lhal Council would waive it. Cily Auomey P ;otzman sa:d oo. lhal if you wai\'t lhe si1e plan
review. lhe Ale plan ,-oo)d lhcn be rt\iewed by Slaff. Council Member Halhaway said oh. bl.: o.,ly
i n1cmal.
Council Member Habenichl asked if lhcrc isn'I a public hearing P"""" ..ilh 1ha1 site plan review and if
Iha! wooldn'I be laking away anolher oppomtnily for 1hc public 10 o!\iew tha1 plan. Mr. Graham
answered lhAl if )'OU v.-cnt for UlC site plan wai\'cr it would mducc the number ,~ times it 111'Cf1t before the
public in a public bearing selling .
Mayor Bums asked if ii was anticipaled lha1 you may ha\'e occasions when: you'll~ .. a site plan lhal is
so simple lha1 iljUSI ""' "onh spending an a,-ful lot oflimc going through ll!\'Ols olreview. Mr.
Graham said yes, lhal Ibey lhink lhe Planning Commission is in lhe position 10 make lhat kind of
decision . Mayor Bum! said , but that . as our City Attorney said. would be a rccommendat:ion to Council .
Mr. Graham said yes. Mr. Simpson noled 1lcll Council is the final aulhoril)' on that.
Mr. Simpson commented lha1 1his is a 1001 meant 10 provide for City Counci l 10 able to review a variety of
differe nt kinds of applications as U1cy come forward 0\'cr lhe years . He noted lherc may be times when
you have a project. Wt is so significantly complc.x that you 're going 10 have to har. all IC'\'t.ls and not ha\'<"
it roncurr en' ind ha\'t aJI the public hearings possible . Hov.'C\'Cr, lherc may be limes when you have a
very sirr .. ,lc MJD ooming tltrough in which it will be your desire 10 really facilitate it because it is
desirable. bn1 one lhal is simple and suaight forward lhal you could waive some of these onerous
requirements .
Council Member Habenicht said she wouJd be curious 10 know how many PUD's thq· c.~ to go
lhrough 1he Cil)· ma year's time . Mr . Graham said not v,ry many, prob i bly a handful,"'~· lhn:e. He
said he 1hough11'ic re ha,·e been lhirty-ninc PD 's on Ute books. and 1hc tnggcr was dilfcrcnl lhar. ii ..ill ~
for the PUD . He said perhaps thirt y•ninc in a do 1.cn years .
Council Member Habcnicln said she felt she would always rather err on the fact of ha,ing to do somethin g
a liulc bi1 routinely ra1hcr 1han 10 lake 1hc chance Iha! ii mighl preempt lhe public's opportuniiy 10
panicip.,tc . She staled she would like 10 sec 1ha1 changed .
Counci l Member Ha1h .. 1way commented that lhis will be on a case by case basis anywa~. so you'd always
,·01c on 11,c righ 1 10 wa1,·c it.
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May 6, ltH
Pap,
Mayor B111111 noced thal Council maltcl the dccllion .
Council Member Habenicht lllled Ille -.Id Uk! to keep thal privilqc wilh the public.
Mr. Simpson sald he -.Id liu 10 offer one penpec:tlve oa why tbat wu pu1 inlo place. He DOied that if
you arc dealing wilh a very lllnighl forward project. and ii really i, &imp le cue or ye, or no, ii is good
business pn,ctia: 10 make ii ,,,.,.. fofwam for lhc ~. He IWed tbal fiom the llandpci nt ol lhc
citizens. they 're going 10 llavc an oppon-.111i1Y to CJCJ)ltll ClOll0Cffl or qwcsti01J1 up front M they ,lo now with
the rest or the process. and II allows putc, uoc and efficiency or 11111' and Council time. Mr. s , mpson
noced Council would noc be bwdcned with 11-CXUI moctinp and in all realiiy. kind oran
adminillrativc, if you will . pmc:as tbal', being brought fOJWanl i5 time comwnin&, He noted tha1 is why
Council wu given thal opponunily 10 make that dcci&ioo. He uid he just wanted to aamcot on .,hcrt
the rtaSOning came from .
Council Member Halhaw.iy asked Cily Allomcy Brotzman. if they havr ooc thal City Council opts 10
waive the lite plan lt\;cw and ii ends up being lumed down by staff wh31 woold he the ultimale review.
City AUOfllC)' Brotzman a<!viscd that 1hcre i, an appeal that', provided in thc onli1.ance . Council Member
HathH'&y aslted if ic changes if Council waives the ,ite plan review . She asked if ii is true that ii doesn 't
change. that lhe appeal stays lhc same whether Council ""i"cs that righl or not. City Auomcy BrotZDWl
sai d tha t is ngh1 . Counci l Memhcr Hallia,.ay said lliat is good .
Council Member Habe nicht asked if, on the other side oflhal coin, i1 ·s passed. and lbcrc '5 oonccm on the
pan of the public. they wou ld ha, .. any appeal . Ciry Auomcy Brotzman noted that would be the request
He said if Counci l ha d a concern. or thc .-,blic. tl-.ey would proballly request Planning and Zoning and
Council . on thc site plan. not 10 use lliat process.
MaJor Bums asked if lhcrt \l'CtC lffi' other questions or comments 11 this time.
Mr . Graham submiued notice of proof of publication of the public hearing in the Englewood Herald .
Council Member Vormittag pointed out that thcrt was a big problem a couple of months ago with the
definition of plan and the dcfinilion of cona:pt . l'c asked if the definition should be included in here to
avoid oonfusion . Mr . Simpson noted that is a vcr , good poinl. that one of the things that 's going to be
coming ou t of this process "ill be a district plan . He cxplamod that the district plan "ill be a very specific
document that outlines what is going in on a propcny . such as land uses. densities. heights. how many
and . as Mr. Grnham said . it identifies locations . Mr . Simpson stated it is a very specific kind of
document . that i, is far from being conceptual and Council "'ill not h.a \'C a definitional problem because
what has been outl ined in there is a specific set tJI cntcria that must be met for approval . He opined lha1
planning is nol • science. it is kind of a field '"'· and bccaU9C of that . those kind or tcnns ol conccpu and
plans probabl y sl.'Uldn 't be~ as simply as we 've lhrown them around here rccxnlly , because they do
create confusion . He noted this regulation is '.tO specific in order to focus in on the-fao. that , because we
arc passing laws that govern the use of that ground , we have to be ve ry specific.
Council Member Vonninag asked if the book they art coming up ,.;th is a book the City is making up or
is this something •J,at already exists and if ii is going to have to become our policy.
Mr . Graham noted that on pa ges five and si x of tl1c bill . it lists a number of things lhat arc required on 1hc
district plan. which gi\'cs Council an idea of how specific they art being. He stated 11131 "• art asking
tf.•'ll. for inslancc . under number one. to tell us the proposed points of access. wc 'rt: telling them to tell us
what's three hundred feet around the silc in all directions. Also , he poinlcd out. we arc asking for
topographic data of the e.~isting and propoccd dcvclopmcnl. locati ons of all the casements. the location
and height or all flllilbed SUUdurCS on the lite, that's ffilllvdy spocilic lluff 1111d it pa on. He noted
t.hcrc ar, eighteen items la wt Ult that rcpracnt the distric:1 plan lcvd ol uw.-ion. He aid ,.,. ask for
1 parking plan, loclU-olthe dri>e Isla, the.,_.,,, ofstaddng, bow tbcy'n,....,. to comply with their
disabled parkins rcquircmenll. loading, fir< lanes, all dimensioned . He staled it is I very dc1ailed. very
complicated plan cva, • tk dillrict plan lewl and It F{I mon, so II 11w: lite pla lc,,el.
Council Membtr Vonnitllg 111.od if this is going to be IIIOd for Cindadla City. Mr. Suni-,o said be
would like to 111SWCr that ia tM>ways. He notod be nntcd to follow a little wthtr OIi Mr. Grabam's
comments in that Mr. Vonninag called it I book . Mr. Simpaon noted it pn,bobly Sods like that to 1
developer 10metimcs. bul •1111 will happen is their lpl)iication, will come ia OD I ck>aolDClll lhll lists all
this information. Coru,quomly, he explained. the City will have that OD n:mnl as I recorded clocwnent
that .. ;u help guide the City. all°'""-in how that land gets developed. Mr. Silllpoo ltlled 1h11
Cinderella City \\ill be r<quin,d to follow this proc:eu.
Cooncil Member llatha•~ asked if we an, now requesting that you tia--c ,ta1T draft I way to oomc up will>
a neighborhood meeting before ac:c,cptanc:c of the application and "ooldn 't 1h11 IIU)11c be vi.,.'Od as tl>e
conttptual SIJlgc. bcausc at that point. they h»-cn 't got all of thiS11nn stuff OIi paper. Sbcopinod that in
our particular case, ,.~·re in the conccp1 SIJlge venu.s the on paper plan. Mr . Simpson stated yes. that 's a
good Wll)' ID chllracteri.tt it
Mayor Bums asked if ti= wcr, any other comments. Ht. noted Cooncil still hasn ·1 heard trom the
publi c.
Cooncil Member llabcnicbl said she has I question under proc:eu on page three. ..-hich talks aboot the
pre application m i "' that the staff goes through before the applicatioo is made. She noted t.hcrc 's a
st:Jtcmc nt m •J 1crc tl\at sa~s oo project approvaJ is implied to be granted at this early miC\\1 stage. Ms.
l'.tbcnicht ""ndercd ifthcn: is any Sllge witl>in tl>is thot • project appnn'II is implied or granted prior to
thc final app,..,-al that Council """Id give . She said she wonders what that '1C3DS.
... r. Graham noted he wanted to share his answer with Ciry Attorney Brownan to make sure he 's
.idcquatcly 81\$\\-cring it. Mr. Graham advised tl>at getting tl>t. 1 .. ld uses app'°''Od in the district plan
gi\'CS you the right to go forward, ,;th a site plan. and if you don't pumte that \igilanO y. gel it done in a
cooplc of years, you lose the district plan rights, it reverts back to the original zoning.
City Attorney Brot zma n DOied that only Council can approve a PVD , an« 'le said. what Mr . Graham is
sa)ing is that. c\'cn if Council approves a PUD. and doesn 't acl upon it ro,-1 pc.nod of years, even that
right goes away .
Council Member Haben icht said that something doesn't happen whcr, somebody sa)~ well my goodness,
they approved me ir. r:.:.n ni ng and Z.Oning and the staff approved it and now Cou.nciJ didn 'I appro\'C il.
City Altom~· Brol.zman S3Jd r.o
Council Member Habenicht asked then if that is not implying anJ1hing, that tl>crc 's I stake? City
Anomcy Brotz man said no
Mr . Simpson commented that stafTwasjust simply trying to be very , V<I) clear in all of this, that Cooncil
is the final appf'O\ing ~. as w( don 't wanl anybody lo have any unclear din::ction that at any stage the
staff or Planning Commission "ill have tl>at right of approval. it will need to come forward . He said if
tha1 crca1cs confusion then we need to reconsider 1ha1. however it is really meant 10 just be ,·cry straight
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May 6, 1"6
Pap II
mu) 1,J
forward with the .ie.clopmenL commuail)' 111d the lll'Pllcanl 10 MC 111ro thal they arc vay clear cm
where we are 0Df4inJ 1iom.
Council Mcmher HalJcnichi s:lllled thal ma)t>c ii would be VOi)' helpful lo have • llllcmenl like lhal II
various lrigi:r poinls in lhis onllnancc so lhal ii is dear all the way lluough thal there i1 IIOl .,...
approval lhal doey have pined that means thal it ii local opproval . She said thal mighl be • ,ood
statement to place in a dilfcrcnl portioo ol it for thal reason .
Ma yo r Bums Slaled that what he thinks M,. Habenichl i, getting al a little bit is the concq,I of Yelled
righlS. He said there have been some bill, floal lng in the lqislalurc lhis season aboul WI. He ubd Cily
Allomey BRlUDWI if thal kind of legislati on was passed. if II -.Id sort of supcrimpooc illelf c,ycr lhis
ordinance . Mr. Brournan advised that we have designed lhis to mesh with that legislation thal is ou1
there
Council Mcmher Hathaway askcd if there is a way lo ,nch-1: •.ilal. !hough, as pan oflhc original
lani.uagc. pcrbapo in the wbcrcas(s). City Allomcy Brri ,m1 ,1 said sure . Ml . Hathaway said if there is
some way 10 stale that City Cou ncil is the ullimalc rcvic•, body, because the whcrcu(s) statc lllal there is a
three-way prcass and all this «view c:rilcria. Clc . be! uowherc docs ii say that Cily Council has the final
,., ... 1. Council Member Habenicht staled thal is a good idea .
Mr . Graham ad..-iscd thal Ibey can add that in time for lbe May ,c• hearing. if they accq,t lhat
Mayor Bums said be thinks thal is a lilll e dilfcront issue lban the vested rights . He 5aid be is no1 sure
wha1 legislation linal!y gOl passed up there . bu1 he asked where Ille vesled righlS commonly kid< in . Ci1y
Allomcy Brotzman ...--~red 1ha1 then:"~"' SC\'Cral bills. one of lhosc basi cally said that as soon as you
pass it thou shalt nol lllkc away . Mayor Bums asked City Allomcy Brlll1mar, if he was ll1king llbout the
Council . Mr . Brotzman said yes. once the Council passes iL Mr. Bnittman said there was UOlhcr one
that basically affected our reversion clt..nsc a..'ld we actually modified our reversion claU5C. He said be is
not sure when: thal bill i~ Council M<>nbcr Hathaway said that she docs not lhink ii has pass,,d. Mr.
Brotzman said w-c had a two year rc\'crsion cJ1u.sc and thal required I three year rc\/crsion clause so we
su bsti tuted a three year reversion clause lo mesh 'Nith the Stale legislation .
Mayor Bums said okay. but he wanted to cmphaciu lhal Council action is what really uiggcn 11
Counc il Member Habenicht Slated that in the next Slatcmcnt it says that the PUD D1striC1 plan. .. ,he
Planning and Zoning Commission shall make a n:commendation lo City Council for final action." She
asked if tha• means that somcthi og ""n ·1 son of c,KI in Planning and Zoning at any time. Iha! they have
10 move i: ro .... -an1 . She said if II isnl in the PD riglll now tha1 50fflClhin g could just son of no1 be passed
forwa rd l,y Plannin g and Zoning and so ii would just die there and Council would not have to deal with ii.
She asked if this is now something different.
Mr. Graham said it is mandalory unless an applicam withdrew their applica1ion, the Planning dnd Zoning
Commission would need 10 n:commcnd ei th er for City Council approval or against ii.
Mayo r Bums asked if they recommend against the applicant if they could advance lo the Cvuncil . Mr .
Graham sa1d yes a project can adv:i ncc C'\"Cn wi1h a negative rccommcnd?..tion fro m tl1e Plannin g
Commission .
Louncil Member Hatha"~Y said that Ibis "ould n:quirc that even wiL~ a nega~ 1: h::.O mmcndation from
Planning and Zoning that ii comes to Council anyv,ay .
Mr. GnJwn said no, he lngbl llley could llop lhe pn,ca1 at 1h11 paint
Mayo< Burns said he did ll0C llunk you could ,...,. an oppllcant 10 continue 10 ,weal .,.;n11 Lhcir wtU
Council Mtmber Habcnidll aid lhtn shouldn 't 1h11 word be 11\1)' lllllad ol llball. City Anomcy aid oo,
that )OU Wllll the pn,c,ss &om Ille Ctcy lidc lo shall, Ille applic:anl eJwaya 1111 lile ripl 110C lo . They can
aiways wilhdBw or, Lhcir side, bu1 )'OU want the City lo be forcod lo pruceas tms. And, be said, Ibis is
what this docs, Is i1 forces the proocss 10 go forward .
Mr. Simpson said that Planning and l.onlng netds 10 act as a fact finding~ for Council. He explliDcd
this is so that whether they make a ncplive denial or appnMl Council wiU .....,. the Findinp of Faa ii
and when an 1pplican1 continues ftinl'lrd.
Council Member Clapp said she is still a liule confused as 10 where the polblic i.npu1 comes in. She laid as
she reads on page thn,c. om: thnJugh foor , the only pan where she socs polblic iroput ,.ould be
neighborhood orpnizaticns on four . Sl>c said ii kind of ,..ms like 1ha1 ahould he clofincd I Little bit
clcan,r and that should ml)tt come up between two and threo .
Mr . Simpson said he though! thal is what they wen: lllkinr, about earlier, tbal lmotl OD Ms. Cohn's
commcnlS they would won. 10 incorponle a neighborhood meeting r,,quircmcot into this early prc-
applrcation portion . He C'<plaincd 1h11 whit they would <lo !s prior 10 the City aa:q,ci111 an application of
• PUD , the dc\-clopr , "ookl probably be r,,quln,d to bold a neighborhood .-uig and find oul that public
,nrJ< He ,aid as Council 1':ant>cr H11haway had mentioned, it would be kind ofa concq,1ual st.age. He
said that is oomcthing the)· •ill put in here, it Is nol in there toolghl.
Council Member Clapp med wh)' the developer would do !hat Mr . Simpson •Mscd that City staff•ill
be in ancndanoc to lake and listen to that input but i1 is going to be the ttquiremcnt lhal that dc\'Ciopcr
pr=I the concept. ii' )'OU v.ill .
Council Member Habenicht asked if they would son of pay for it
Council Member Hatha"~Y said yes. II "ould be on their money . instead or oun at that poin t. because
thci• ha,-c not even applied ,o us al that point 10 proceed funhcr "ilh the dc\'Clopmcnl.
Mr Simpson said that in a real simple way )'OU could Jook II it as going oul 11110 the neighborhood. swJ
would make sure that a proper notification occurred in accordance with =11uog else that has been put
into place in this document. He S>id from Iha! notifica1ion the developer ncals 10 say this "what I am
proposing in your neighborhood. lhll lhc)• w.un to do• ru.oning and this is what it is png 10 be. He 111d
the neighborhood can then say we like ii or we 1hink you should change it or we lhinlt yoo need 10 go
•"~Y Mr. Simpson said stall' "ill hear that inpul and the dc\'Cl"!'C' will ha\-c lhal opportunity at lhll
time to say that this is going to be a tough batllc and I "ill go away or 1 Utink. I can ac\jUSI to their
r,,quin,mcnlS or C\'Cl)1hing is wonderful and we'll make a nice little famil y out oCthis ocighborhood. He
sai d it is an opponunity to find out thil input Bl a very ea rly stage. He said they did not include ii u lhe)·
did not think about lhal that t.hc),· were keeping ii VCl)' much unifonn v.ith the current proc:csscs we ha\'t:
loda)
Mayor Bums felt that we should noc lose sight oflhc fad 1ha1 for instance this ordinance requires lhc
Planrung and loning Commission to form.illy consider the district plan at a pubhc hcanng and anytime
you na,-c a publi c hearing yoo have citiz.cn input. He added that when you ha,,. these mccungs before the
Planning and Zoning Comm1ss10n and City Counci l they arc al"A-ays subjca 10 a uzcn mpul. tha1 1s v.11}
1hc~ arc pubh c hearings
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M176, '"' Pap: 13
Council Member Habcnlchl ulted lf lhiJ kind al PUD, liu a half acn, or DIOR, -.Id be ClOMidcn>d in an
R•l•A:mncforcxamplo. Mr.Grahamadvilodtllalllllaonlilllllcedocsn'lmakcany~bocwecn
any af lbc onlinanca. He 111d lhal you can tuild R•l•A two PUD 's and reqU0$11h1111111 go illlo an R•I•
A IICigbborbood . He pointed ou1 t11at w1111 ""' bl\>c to CICllllider is tha1 i1 um 1w to ..-Iii ar the
n,quimnenlS for r<20ning and typically lhc.le m lhillp lib a major chan&c iD the infnltruclwe, ~
in llijaccnt land use and othe< major changes to lbc CiC)' are still the criteria for adopting any l"OlOlling .
He &1lled it is this ordinance II a 1-0II< district aud all of lbc regulations that govern any l'C2JDning.
together, 1h11 mau up lhe PUD pmcw.
Council l\l<mber Habenicht SI.lied that what is 1i>ing bor somc concern and maybe she just IICeds to be
reamRd. is that OD pqc lhn,e wbcn ii 1111)'1 pennittod ...... the PUD diSlrict plan shall peniit any ...
which is I pennined me in any zone district oflhe City. Mr. Simponn lllted that lhe pl rally oomcs
down 10 again that this is meant 10 allow lhe City afEnB)ewood lhe oppollwlity to review ljlplicllioa> as
1hey come forward . He said he docs 1101 beliO\'C any of us are so omnipotcnl that we know wba1 is going 10
happen in the nc.1 30 to 50 year<. He said there may be housing types, housing opponunilics or
commercial lypes or commcn:ial opponuniocs ou1 then: that may be cn1in:ly appropriate but Ibis piece of
legjslation allO\\~ is lhe opponunity 10 make that n:ques1. He said we don '1 have 10 approye a 1eques1 but
ii allo...-s some pcnon to make a n,qucst. to come forward 10 say I have an idea and whclber it is R-1-A or
B-2 or an 1-1 is nol lhe point. Whal ii is. be poinled out. is you can a,me forw•nl wilh an idea for a land
use a1 a location that may no1 have been pennined othen.ilC in our zoning onlin■DCC . He said ii allows
for flexibility m! .:n:,ui\ity, bul again ii only alln~ that llexibilily within lhe COlll<Xl of tbe public ncview
process. citizen input and finally Cowicil ncview . He cunmcnled thal lhenc anc many, -· many
safeguards and we have pul another one into place t... ght. He said he feels ncally wnfideot tllat Council
is going to ha,-c lha1 public ncview ability .
Mr. Graham said be wanled lo add lo thal thal lypically wbal you think aboul in Ibis pl00CSS is that it
gives you the tools to address your concern,;_ He ilaled ii gives lbc Planning Commission a chaooe 10
nccognize a potential impact and to request that the cleYelopcr ncspond 10 lhal impact by designing some
son of mitigatioo SIBICgy. Mr. Graham noted that wc clo not curncntly Juve lhis kind of tool oo lbc books
10 gi\"c lhcm the ability to say lhat no we lhink lha1 impacts too much, "'C need 10 a<1d lhis kind of feature
10 lhe project lo mitigate Iha! impact .
Council Mrmber Habemtill said that she still has a little bil u( concern if"-c an: only e.'J'CC(ing 10 see two
or tlu-cc of 1hcse come through a year and i(for example somelhing mighl come through on an R-1-A
District . She ad.,,ised lh,t we had a lot o( concerns wilh changes they wen: trying 10 make then: and lhc
people were ncally cominr, forward and somcti,nes ii lakes time for lhc people 10 calch on that IIOIDClhing
is happenin g. She commented lhal lhc word dor.sn'l get anNnd even though we II)' ii four and five times
and diffcn:nl ways . Ms. Habenicht said she guesses she would still like 10 keep lhat process go one, two,
lhn,e and lhat site plan mighl be somclhing thal we gjve aulhori1.ation somcwhen: down llle line for some
Ciry Council 10 wntc a bhmk check when II mighl be something thal the community might want to come
back and look at She said she would like to see lhal site plan just have 10 go through each time.
Mayor Bums staled lha1 he does 001 agree. lie said be thinks lhal we have enough flexibility in bore. He
said be thooghl he sa" in hen: earlier the n:quin:ment.s for the oormal zoning change. like lbe change
cirtUmstanccs and compliance wi1h compn:bensh-c plan and 1holC sons oflhings. Mr. Simpson said ihat
criteria is set forth \\ithin the standards that apply lo all rczonings and it is in the very beginning of that
Chapter . Mayor Burns said lhat then in other words you would have lo make those sho\<ings befon: you
would get any change of zoning use . Mr . Simpson said lhal will be pan of the Findings of Fact . Mayor
Bums asked if the Findings of Fact is rcquirtd by the Planning Commission and if it is in this ordinance .
Mr . Simpson said yes .
Cooncil Member Waggoner ,aid be Ullled to follow through a little bit with Council -
Habcnlehf s _,, on paae three, paracrapb d. pcrmituld ua. He ,aid if he 11 ....U., llli1 currcclly
this would allow fa<• developer to ~hale: five , 1ix, aeveo or eipt homcl in the R-1-A district and if
ovtrything were appn,ved by Cily Council , to place on U-loU a little lhoppina coa,pex. He lllk<d if
that Is coma. Mr. Simpson llllcd yea, the polentlal i1 oenainly there. BIi~ he said he WUUd to olfer the
alternative view, because be said he feels it Is neoeaary to C>JnSider. HeOl<plaiocd thal ifln-e or six homes
"~re bollght the polentill Is aim Ihm to CRIIC tomdhlng that 11 raldentlal in clwacla, as it would meet
the consistency requirement with the compn:hensive plan that may have otherwioc DOC t.,, pcrmitl<d or
that"~ have not considered today and that may very ~II fit beautifully into that ncigbbomood . He Slid
he thinks what Mr . \l 'aggoncr is dcsaibin MIUld more likely be called a Spol zoning and would therefore
not be pennilled and :..,nalnly not rccommclldcd by staff. Coonc:il Member W•-aid bill theae , ose
old owls sitting u11 hete could dclinltdy npprove it. Mr. Simpson said that ,,. why they CXlWllt on Coun 1I
so suongly. bccau ,c they are ,.;,._
Mayor Bums noted that they still ham \"t alla..ul ani• input by the eitizcns in thi s hearing.
Council Member Clapp '8id she has one Otl,t r quick •tucstlon. She asked if there ii: a~• on that
~11niculPI one to open up the door k> a lOl of zoning v1rianccs coming bcfon: Caunci!. Mr Gr.lham said
he wafttcd to say fit Fil off that a variance is a \ ery ~Of' t~nn as ii is used related to mniag. which is
co nceplually different than re,.oning. He asked M'-r:i..,o ,t ,;., qt st.ion she is askina is if tlw· opens up
the door ,o ,nany re200ings . Ms. Clapp said yes . Mr . Graham s.lid he thinks thi< w<11id be staff's
preferred zone distrie1 in any instance of'1 very complex ~uea bcc:awz il gives lbcn. morc lools to
add res ronccms than any of the othef lOnC districts on the books. He said that is to say Ibey 8d to ooc
more of the ini\lrrnalion in a more predictable 't\-ay . He advised that there havcn 'I been ,,:ry many
rezodngs in Englc,,'1>.--d since the current map was adopted and because Englewood is largely built our he
sa i~ he docs not forcscc a :ut of rezoning requests in the futUIC . He said there are I couple of significant
sit es that we arc all "' of. some made available by Santa Fe oonstruclion , the Cindcn:lla Ci ty site. aNI
pot ent ially some on Soot 1 Broad\\~y. He noted large sites. several acres would be the -likdy
cand idates for PUD zon ing and l)COl>le that are currently ouilding dupl exes would never go through this
process . ii is a lot of work .
Mr . Simpson said lO furth er di scuss that just a little bit . he said he agm:s "i lh CVCl)1h ing Mr . Graham
snid . He noted this allo"' the City of Englewood the ability to deal "i lh a variety of complex issues in a
much mon, thoughtful , comprehensive manner. He said to address Ms. Clapp 's issue dirca.ly. that it will
be very costly and time consuming for the average developer to come throogh with this process and it will
be m y unlikel y to sec that many. Unless. he added. this can be applied to the difficult issues that are oot
then:. Mr Simpson said they feel then: arc some difficult issues and propenles locat ed within Englewood
and that Council "ill sec some of them over the next r ... years. Certainly , he noted. Ci nderella City
co mes 10 mind ri ght off. but that is not the only one . He said you ha\'C rcdcvclopmcnt potcotial along
South S;t nta Fe that is going to continue 10 be a ncccssary area ro focu s on nnd to consider. He said we arc
currentl y consi dering South Broadway He commented that there may be some real opponunitics to use
some oi thi s creative ability lo look al land use along that sln:tch . Mr . Simpson staled there will be a
development opponunity at General Iron so,ncday and he noted they believe it may have a real application
there . He said they just believe that it "ill not be applied in a haphamd manner. but really rather fOCUICd
1oward those areas that arc most in need of focusing on those complex issues
Council Member Habenicht asked what would be the tightest lime frame that someth ing could be worked
through this process . from the point of filing the application. where they pay tl,c fee . to flnal approval .
Mr . Grahnm expl ained that there are two scenarios . the oo nsecutivc , sequential process a!WS a concurrent
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process He said g1,·cn Coun cil's current requireme nts fo r requesting a publi c hearin g and the publication •
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requin:mcnlJ it lakes about &ix months to &d throulh a Council process. He IIIIICld Ibey swtcd In JUlllll)I
•ith this in C.ront of the Plallnina Commission and tho earliCSI this can be alroc:tlvc if Council aca,ptJ the
May 20• is June 20• appro, imatdy. He said the same process is necasasy for a raoalAg. So be said,
right now it "ill take six """'ths if it is concumnt 1111d twice that llDOWlt of time if it Is CXlllla.'Utivc. Mr .
Graham advised that the other •lcmcnt to add is it depends I IOI in the development pnaas ou how
responsive the dc:vclopcr is to staff con1ments and how long staff takes to rapond. He said mumlng a
ptttly opt imum response ol e couple wcclts for staff to RSpOlld. a c:ouplc wccb for tbc cncineer llcllitects
or ck:vclopcr to respond, and if you have to go through very many cycles ol that you add months to the
procas.
Council Member Habenicht said that the ott .. r c1ucstion sbe has Is with NMing the dlSlrict nnd the site
plan procus concurrently . She ulu•I if it is true that you c:ould hl.ve a hypolh,tical situation that )'OU
could have puhlir. input just oo the district plan and but DOI on the site plan . Mr. Gruam responded no ,
that concep(uai ly you would take comments on the district plan and comments on the site plan 11 the
Planning Commission meeting and the Council meeting. So that you would. he said. be tlking comments
on two separat e issues. and the)· would voce scp;uately and )'Ou would \'Ole separatel y. Council Member
Habenicht quc51ioned whether Council c:ould ope to ,ay that they do nae want 10 Ilk< site f'la n ccmmcnts .
Mr. Simpson said no . Ms . Habenicht asked iftha, is going lo be a staff thing. Mr. Simpnn and Mr .
Gruwn said ,o. Ms . Habenicht asked if the site plan thing wi ll only kick in if it iucquc.itial, not if ii is
concurrent. Ms. Graham Aid be 1hinks what Ms. Habenicht is asking is if the Planning C-or.uniision can
mi:w a site plan and a district plan at tlicir fir>t ITICdiug and recommend that Council waive the site plan
mi•w. then Council w01~d only llkc comments on the district plan , He said that if Council aa:q,<ed
their recommendation 10 wai,-c the site plan, they couM certainl y do that. Mayor Bums commented that
before Council would make a determination whc1hr.r to waive ii Council would ba,-c an opponunity 1br
public comment . Mr. Simpson said that :i correct .
Mayor Bums asked if there \\Crt any "'lhcr questions of sta£f al this point. Being none he ask.CO if anyone
in the audience ,,ishcd to comment further. Mayor Bums explained lhal this is an open pub1ic hearing
and the purpose is 10 so ii cit citizen a,mmcnts. in add.ii ion to staff comments.
Haruld Cd\'a, Director or the F.ngl.,.ood Downtown 0...-clopment Authority, said he has a question and
one sugges1ion . The ques1ion. be said. is n:garding the public input. He said be goes ,-cry much along
Ms . Cohn 's comments on that. H.: opined Lha1 it is well ;,.ntl good lo ha\'t the publi c input. Mr . Cclva
noced t.hat we ha\'c here somewhat of a nebulous. undcfi n.:d process for public notificauon . Th e: ORT , he
said. is also responsible fo r referrals as approprialc . He staled th.11 he tl1inks the PD ordin.1n cc that is 10
be repealed . and the PUD ordinances in oti,cr local jurisdictions, ha\'e posting . He said he thinks that is
one additional fonn of public ooilication, where Ilic property is posted for a specific number of days pri or
to a public hearing. He said he docs not sec that . Mayor Bums asked if that was cut our of lhis ordinance .
Mr . Graham said that requirement comes out of the rezoning rcq·Jiremcnt s rather than this specific
distrid rcquircme111. so it would stm be a requiremen t.
Mr . Cel\'a said his other suggcsaion is he would like to sec somelhing in the verbiage. where they arc
talking about specifics of the buildings, such as on page ten paragraph F, where they arc talked about
gross floor ar-...as. finished floor elC\.itions. heights. etc . he wou ld like to sec some me e detail in relation
10 building m.1tcrials if possib le .
Mayor Bums asked if th ere was anyo ne else that "'ishcd to speak .
Co unci l Member Vonnillag ~·ed iflhC) could add something like tltat inlo th.is Ma)or Bums sai d he
dJ d not know if it is appropria te 11 put building materia l: ·,110 what is csscn1ially a zoning ordinance . Mr .
Simp so n advi sed that m all ac1ualir~· th e) bclit\'C the) ll.WC ad dressed 1ha1 . on 11 cm q 1hcy discussed other
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May6, 1996 ..... ,
clements 1UCh as an:hitOClwll conc:q,ts, buiklina elevations, facade treatments, exi,rior baildiJt& -crial•
as ncceuary IO establish bow the ~ PlJD and "" on . He said it is their goal and cxpoctllioa tbat
with the PUD Council would have the apponwuty to m-iew those clesin,d kinds of qualities oC IUtlan
design . He said it " a penonal thina with him also and so be would be oenaln that that would be cxmlng
forward .
Council Member Habenicht asked if the City Attorney can tell Council whe1~ the clarification o(tbat
posting notification is. City Attorney Brownan advised that that will be at the beginning o(the 2.0lling
ordinance, it is in the Comprehensive Zoning Ordiuance, Titl e 16 . Ms. Habenicht said t1,en that is oo
being repec led in any way . Mr . Brouman said no. Ms . Habenicht commented then that means it will be
r,quired on any PUD . City Attorney Broczman said right or on any public hearing on any ""1.0lling.
Mr . Simpson said as they swrJ ,.-rlier il>cre is a series of findings that have to be made, but ia addition to
that there is a process that is oudl!led thal posting. notification and that is all in ~lace and bas not boon
adjusted with this .
Mayor Burns uked iflhcrc were any q,.;;stions. or comments by stafI
There was no one else prcscn1 10 speak to the issue .
COUNCIL MEMBER WAGGONER MOVED, AND IT WAS SECONDE !'J . 'l <" CLOS£ THE
PUB UC HEARING TO GA fflER cmzEN INPUT O'-PROPOSED A Mt ., JMENTS TO Tm:
COMPREHENSIVE ZONING ORDINANCE RELA 11VE TO PLANNED UN ' r
DEVELOPMENTS.
Ayes : Council Members Hatha\l~y. Vormillag. Wigg,,;s, Habcnicbl
Waggoner , Clapp, Bums
Nays : Non::
Motion carried and the public hc, .. 1og closed .
IO . Con,.nt Agenda
COUNCIL MEMBER HA THA \\ ' , MOVED, AND IT WAS SECONDED, TO APPROVE
CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS 10 (a) (I), (Ii) and (iii) ON FIRST READING.
(a) Appro\'e on First Reading
(i) COUNCU. Bil.L NO . 24, INTRODUCED BY COUNCtL MEMBER
HATHAWAY
A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AlJl1l0 RlZING AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENJ'
BETWEEN THE UNITED STA TES DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR GEOLOGICAL SURVEY
AND THE Cm' OF ENGLEWO<'D -::iLORADO H!TITLED "DEPARTMENT OF TIIE INTI:RIOR
GEOLOGICAL SURVEY JOINTl"\J ND1 NG AGREF.MENTFOR WATER RESOURCES
INVESTIGATIONS ."
(ii) CONTRACT WITH FARIS MACHINERY COMPANY IN ntE AMOUNT
OF $68. 780.00 FOR PURCHASE Of A STREET SWEEPER.
(iii) COUNCIL BILL NO . 27 , INTRODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER
HATHAWAY
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A Bill. FOR AN ORDINANCE AtmfORIZING AN INTER.GOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT
BETWEEN 1llE CITY OF IBORNT'>N, COLORADO ANO 1llE CITY Of ENGLEWOOD,
COLOkADO FOR AN EXCHANGE Of 1llE CITY Of ENOLEWOOD'S ROTOMILLING SURVICES
TO 11iE CITY Of IBORNTON IN RETURN FOR SAND/SALT, HOT ;,ID(EI) ASPHALT, OR
CRUSHED AGGREGATE MATERIALS .
Voce ,....111,
M«ion carried .
Ayes : Council _,. Hllhaway, Vonnittag, Wigins, Habenicht
Waggoner, Clapp. Bums
Nays : Noae
COU~CIL MEMBER HATHAWAY MOVJ:D.AND ITWASSiCONDED, TO APPROVE
CONS ENT AGENDA ITEMS 10 (bl (i) aad'II) ON SECOND READING.
(b) Approve on Second Reading
(i) ORDINANCE NO . 17, SERIES OF 1996 (COl'NCll. BILL NO. 13,
INTRODUCED BY a>UNCIL MEMBER HAIBAWAY)
AN ORDINANCE APPROVING THE RENEW AL Of AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT
BETWEEN 1llE CITY OF ENC! EW00D, COLORADO AND THE CITY OF SHERIDAN ,
COLORADO WHEREBY ENGLEWOOD WILL PROVIDE 1llE CITY Of SHERIDAN WITH
VEHICLE MAINTENANCE .
(ii) ORDINANCE NO . 18, SERIES Of 1996 (COUNCIL er..i. NO. 14,
IN 11lODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER HA IBA WAY)
AN O'IDINANCE APPROVING 1llE RENEW AL OF AN INTERGOVERN1',IENT AL AGREEMENT
BE'N EEN 1llE CITY Of ENGLEWOOD, COLORADO AND ENGLEWOOD PUBLIC SCHOOLS
WHEREBY 1llE CITY OF ENGLEWOOP WILL PROVIDE 1llE ENGLEWOOD hJBLIC SCHOOL 'S
Wini VEHICLE MAINTElslANCE .
Voce ~Its:
M01io11 Cc\"ned
Ayes · Council Members llathaw.iy, Vormiuag. Wiggins , Habenicht
Waggoner. Clapp. Bums
Nays : None
11 Ordinantcs, Rnolullon1 a ■d Motions
(a) Approve on First Reading
(i) Director Fonda presented a recommendation from the Dcpanmcnt of Utilities
to approve .~ motfon , a S1andard agn:cmcnt with Ca mp. Dresser&. McKee , Inc . for study. n.-pon. and
professional design. bidding , and construction services for 1h,. /Jlcn Filter Plant lmprovcmcn ts. He said
the)' an, recommending the contrrct and. although lhi 1 sets out the design and construction management
this only CO\'trs the preli minary engineering desi gn pc rtion of the design . He stated we arc doing that
because tht'.re :ire several processes that the engineer . · ill c"aluatc and 1hen Y.'C will negotiate a contract
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for the ,emaindcr of tbc .,,.;-nng work, after wc know what process wc are goin1 to ~ Wllic:h,
he opin<d, is • 111(,n, efficient "'11)' ol doing IL
Mayor Bums oonciuded that means wc are not doing coastnlCllon ocrviccs or tbal son ol tbiq. Mr .
Fonda said no, but that they have ICI up the CODlrlCI to awer the whole thing oo they can just r.o i.:I< and
fill in the appropriate negotiated pri<a later .
Counci: Member Waggoacr si:Jd he is not I'm whether it is appropriate to stick it in the coolrat;t
somewhere, but he asked tllat Mr. Fonda please malce ain: that the engineer addlellCl lasle Ui.i CNlor
problems that ,., have bad .,..;th our water. Dim:tor Foucb noted thal he thinks the procaoes that ..., are
looking at should glQlly impl'll\'e them and that wc are allo goina II> be evaluating a potentially dilrerent
filler material. He said if thoo>e look feasible they will be hack to Council to le, them k,:..,.., wllat lbc trade
offs are . Mr. Fonda assured Council Member Waggoner Iha< they are looking at that during tbc
preliminary design portion. Mr. Wasgoncr comlllCIIIOd thal he gets roon: calls '."I the taac and -than
he docs on giardia or ayp1ospordium.
COUNCIL MEMBER HABENICHT MOVED, AND IT WAS SECONDED,'!'.> ,.;,PROVE A
STANDARD AGREEMENT WITH CAMP, Dlli.sl,l':R & MCKEE, INC. fOR STUDV, RUORT,
ANll PROFESSIONAL DESIGN, BIDDING AND CONSTRUCTION SERVICES fOR THE
ALLl :N FIL TtR PLANT IMPROVEMF.NTS.
Ayes: Council Memb...s Hath:l\\~y. Vonninag. Wiggins, Habenicht.
Wasgoncr. Clapp. Bums
Nays: None
Motion carried.
(ii) City Labor Counsel Semple prescntcJ a recommendation from the Dcputma,,
of Administrative Sc"ic:es to adopt a bill for an ordinance sctting forth proa:dures to appoint hearing
officers and r<gulations for =icw by the hearing ollicas. He said this onliaana: has been prescDICd '°
Council is a n:sull of amt.ndmcnts to the Charier that"""' pusod by the \'Utcrs on November 7. 1995.
Among other things that rcpcalcd the Career Scrvict Board and the authority that the Career Service
Boan! had with rtgard tr w.cirlinary hearings. The n:Yiood Charier provision requires the Cicy Cooncil
10 oppoinl hearing officers "ith binding outhority to bear disciplinary lj)pCals and also authorizes the
Council to set up the standards for review and the authoricy of the hearing officer in those inslances . He
said there arc a number of items lhat he would briefly like to touch on, particularly to ~ to lbc
comments that were made by Mr. Buescher on behalf of the Police Benefit Associatio:1. First of all . he
ad,isod. the 138:3 (b) of the Chane, sets ou< the standards and autho ri ZJ11ion for tlv. action \hat he jUSI
referenced. And second. he ooted . that <he framework for this particular ordinance is what in fact was
changed in the Chon,~· itself ond there were two major chang<s in the Chaner. Mr. Semple oxplained
thal om: was for binding arbitration in interest issues in the collective barga ining process and it pMided
th.1 1 the arbitrator would ha\'C to choc:h,C between the Ci')' position and the union position . He commented
that there would be no modification. no authori2.1tion 10 mc..dify either one of those positions. And. he
~id. co nsistent with that lhc second major change tha \lwTJII with it was to diminatc the Cuccr Scr\,cc
Board. and the authority of the Career Service Board. Uld have hearing officers appointed by the Council
to deal "ith disciplinary i5SUCS. He poi med out tha< tie section that was changed was not the s,.'Clioo that
was referenced b\ Mr Buescher. thcjUS1 cause standi'rd. He said thatjllU cause standard is ;,Jl. in affect.
ii was unch,:,ged . He ach,scd that what did change. and he said apparcnUy he did nol l'C\icw it for one
reason or another, bul 11 is referenced in the communica1ion to Council from Us . Futhlomc. is what was
I 38:4 h of the old Chane,. He stated t~.at specifically the Chaner gove authority to the Career Sc"ice
Board C\'en when it found jUSI cause to modify the discipline . Mr. Semple advised that thar was ~ashed
by a \'Ole of the people on No,·ember 7. 1995 . He said he thinks tha 1 was the point that was made and he
refc:cnccd it in the lellcr thal Mr . Semple sen< lo him on behalf of the C11y . That tl1c proposals he had
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rdcm,cod u amcodiaa the oripnal dnll. dial we took Into ......,. jlll about CVll)'lhlna 1h11 he hid
rr.q.-.d, but did DOI dunk It -llflP"'l"WC IO Include In All onllnanoo ~n& lhll ta.I been
abolished by I VOie ol'tbe peo<)le. lb< modilicalion provisioo, and lhal is tllo main IWldanl. He aid be
thinks thcrc I couple al' other items 1h11 need to be addrmed. One he aid is like I good ldwlcatc but
whltcvtr. he P\'C Council an cxtrcmo cwnple that could IIOI occur Wider the onll!WKe 1h11 hu been
drafted and p~ IO Council toniaht Bccauac. he Aid, one ol lb< cbanp that Ml made, and ii Ml
the intention or the oripnal draft but it was clarified much more prccildy in the revision. -done u a
result of the commcnlli dial he made and is in scctlon B I of the onlillaDoc iuclf. It ,pccillcs, he aid, that
the 1ppointin& authority hu to do I number of things In the notice al' discipline, amona other things It
saJS is must ,:pocify the ofl'ensc, in EMC f 3-IM-4 which is or m lb< basis for dlscipli,. He IIIICd •hit
that , ection of the axle is w,chan&cd also and ii la)'I 0111 b what amstitula just CIUIC . In fact. he said.
just cause is defined in the code Itself and there Is a list of spcclllc ditciplimry infractions that c:onstltule
cause for termillltioo He noled 1h11 what is specified here is that it is IIOI cnou&h for the appointing
authority to dream somclhing up and say hey I didn't wear a seal bd~ ...,•re going 10 fire him for that or
because Uiat is in CXJmbination "ith somc:hing else . Mr. Semple noled dial under that section of the code
yoo could not fire somebody for no1 Wtaring a scat bell . that's just an e.umple or it . There arc very
specific, nther insipificanl infractions specified in there. he pointed OUI. lie explained that there arc a
\\-hole series orpn,ccdurcs in the code itself that continue in drCCI and 1h11 hl\'e to be read In combination
"i1h 1'.us. He sated thal EMC§ J-IM-5 says that before discipline can be taken there has lo be I meeting
\\ith lhc: emplO)-ce. ,he employee has to be given the reasons. an inV<Stiplion has to oa:r . and all oflhc
factual 11.formalioo has to bl: made l\'ailable 10 the employee C\'CD before any action can be taken . He
stated that EMC§ J-IM-6111)'1 out a act of procedures for corrccth'C ldion. C\'Cn before discipline is
taken, IJld EMC§ J-IM-711ys out the procedures when disciplina1y action has to be taken . So, be
commented, the a,oa,pt tha, t,., talked about of progressive discipline is already built into the axle and
continues in atrce1. All ortt<lOC sections. he noted, hive IIOI been changed by this . lie ·;tated lllll bottom
line on Ws is that lb< ordirw,a, is a balanced ordinance in vie:\,• o(thc changes that"~" made by the
,,,1e:,s in ND\,:mi,cr. He ttilCJaled that tt e revision is bued on the comments that Mr. 'Buescher presented
on behalf nf the Pohce Association. IJld it specifics lhal if the bearinc ollicer finds tha1 the specific cause
thl has 10 compon "'lh the standanls that arc laid out in EMC§ J-IM-4. U..1 if one of those grounds for
1cnrunation is found U\cn the action or the appointing authority has IO be upheld. The other change that
was w1e was that if in fact the hearing officer finds U..1 one of those grounds was llOI present , which he
said is a standard for tennination, then the discipline has to be rcvclSed and there would no1 be a
modification either way . Mr . Semple stated that it is in line \\ilh what you l\nd in binding ubitration in
the other section ofthr. Charter and \\'C thil'\k it is fair . that it is consisicnt. all of the pl'OC6',1ral d•Jc
process rights arc still in place , the just cause <tandard is in plllCC and the authority of lhe hearing offia:r
;~ consistent Yiilh wha 1 ,,·as out into the Charter in November .
Counci l Member Habc11icht questioned\\ tict.hcr it would ha\'C made any sense to tu:.vc done a Charter
amendment that would have precluded the Career Service and to ha,,c left the modification language in
there . Allorney Semple said not lhe way lhe Chane r changes came about in Ibis instance , beause the
balance in ii was U..1 there w.,s going to be binding 11Jbi1111ion for impasse issues and U,crc would be a
binding hearing officer . Bu~ he said. tl,c whole point was that bolh oflho5< individuals would ha\'C a
specific function which \\'15 lo make findings . but the notion of exen:ising the discrction Uial the Cily or
managcm.:nt has to exercise . that tha1 's a function that n mains with the City and with management , not
\\ith the hearing officer.
Council Member Habemchl staled 1ha1 l,cr n,:o tlccti on. and she asked for City Allomcy BrolZlnan 's help
\\ilh thi s. was 1ha1 when the \'Otc went h> \'Cnfy 10 keep modification in there . when it was l'ilh the Career
Sel\iCC Authori~. was somctllin g tak en \'Cl)' scp.1ra1cly and apan in tcnru of where the people actuall y
voted to suppon modifi r.ation . Ci ty Attorney Brot zman said Urn! is right. Ms . Habenicht said she was
wondering if it was indeed the intcnuon of the people. when \ll'C '-''Cre changing the Career Servi ce Board
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ba::1uso we !UC rq>lacin& ii ailh IOllldhin&, 111111 sllc lSIIIIDCd lhll ma)be they were llwlkiD& 1h11 .,,. ...,.re
going 10 replace ii with ......uiq cocnv,nblc . Attorney Semple oald he can't really rapoad to WI Oilier
than to say <NI the rcviliolll 1h11 were l1lldc....., clcarty dilCUSIOd by all !he parties lhal ....... iaYolvcd .
He swc:d lhal be knows lhal from lbc City's point oflhc view 1h11 illUC was one 11111 -fairly
significan~ bcclusc ii had been publicly discusllc:d quite• number oftimcs, ev,,i before lbc final v<nlon
came down
Cooncil Member Habcrjcn t '.aid the Oilier q.-ion 1h11 she has, in tcmu of II.le comments 1h11 were made
earlier, "' how many cliff, rent jurisdictions baV'C I hearing officer that do modif1C11k1117 She ultal lf
that is consisten~ Is thal r:I 'tn done or is lhal 1101 often dooc7 Mr . Se..,,plo ldvisod lhal ii varies, IOd he
felt, ,.;th all due rcspcc1. t lit Mr. Bucschcr 's oommcnt was somewhat overly bmod. He said lhcrc arc
jurisdictions ln the mctroi olitan ll'CI 1h11 do 1101 allow for modification ln conncclion with actions such as
this when: you have hcari tig officers, lhal lbc heiring olliccn si mply don 't have 1h11 kind olllllhority.
He advised that wliat Ibey la,,. authority 10 do is make findings of fact and those arc IIS>lally bioding on
either the city council, civil scnicc board or whllC\'Cf ii might be . Bu~ he added, tbe notion that taring
officers have authority to m'ldify disci pli ne is not especially common in this process.
Council Member Habenicht ,aid then the sccnlrio with the seal belt is not at all possible ,.;th the way this
•; "nncn now . Mr . Semple Aid no. 11111 ii is just not I Slandard thal would be applitlblc UDclcr the code
pr1."l\isions.
Ma) or Bums said thal was one of his con=ns that you could essentially load up the number ol
complaints and have one ~t "~ rather innocuous, thinking ifyoo lost the others )'OU cmld still 5"\-acly
disci pline on th< n:mainlnig one. Mr. Semple answcn:d that lhe way fMC § -3-18 is wrincn is 11111 for
each offense, lets say then: arc four offenses. the appointing authority is going lo ha,,. 10 specify for each
one of lho5c offenses what ~':, discipline is. So he said, let 's say if ~ne is drugs lhc)• say that would •
oo.istitut.e termination and the Otl.:r one is some safety violation and I.he)• say that comtitutcs termination .
So lbat each one specifics lbat either, here 's tbc discipline for lhat or else say for all four lumped together
here 's what the disciplinary action is. He wd ln ·hat case you would have 10 prove all four in onlcr 10
SUSlain tl>e disciplinary action, ifyoo lumped ii logcthcr . Citing the example Mr. Buc,;chcr ga,,. of theft
and a safely \iola1ion of not ha,ing a scat bell he said if the appointing authority sim1lJ said for lh<osc
two the guy is firc:d . He said he thinks the problem you would run Into trying 10 P""'< ii is ir one of them
isn ·t present then half the cause that you arc lr)ing to justify isn't present and you .... -·•••: ba,-c to relate
each one of1hem bock 10 the sections of the code. Ile staled you arc nol go,ng lo l to n:lo1e the seal
belt v10la1ion 10 one and four as the grounds foi' tennination . it's just not pre se nt.
Cou ncil Member Vorminag said lei 's go do\\11 to f, ri ght below thal one where you can take it to a judge
and a judge can justify ii. when: he was talking on 11 e hen: wilh a scat belt and a theft . He said if he was
fo und innO\.'Cnl of 1he theft, and from wbal he was sa)ing he would still be fin:d , and if he IOOlt It 10 f. 10 a
Judge. !hen he asked if it IS right that the judge wouldn't say he would be fired over I seal bell Mr.
Semple said the standard there would be if he was able lo show lhal the standards "ilhin the cod< itself
bad 1101 been mel, namcl) the seal belt . Mr . Vonniuag commented 1ha1 he felt lhal is their way oul , right
there . of the wh~ic tlting. He said if they can go 10 a judge and the judge can go one step f\.nhcr and he
could sol\·c tlte problem. if 1hc guy was found innocent of this theft problem and still had the seal belt
thing lir.gcring over him. he sai d he thinks the judge ·would be more than understanding and he would not
lose hi s job overt.hat .
Mayor Burns said yes. the appeals standards arc set forth
TI1e Cil)' Clerk ~~s asked 10 n:ad Council Bill No . 21 by litle : •
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COUNCil. BllJ. NO. 21, INTRODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER WIOOINS
A Bil.L FOR AN ORD ANCE AMENDING TTIUl l, CHAPl1'Jl IN, SECl10N 9, OF 1llE
ENGLEWOOD MUNICIPAL CODE 1985 CONCERNING DISCIPLINARY APPEALS .
COCNCIL MEMBER WIGGINS MOVED, AND IT WAS SECONDED, TO APPROVE AGENDA
ITEM 11 (a) (ll)-COUNCIL BILL NO. 21.
Mo1jon carried.
Ayes: Oiunc:11 Mcmbcn Hathaway, Vonnittag. Wigins, Habcnicll~
Wqgoncr, Clapp. Burns
Nays : None
(iii) Planning Community Caonlina1or Still ..-cd a recommendation fr,m lhc
Office of Neighborhood and Business Dc-.'Clopmcnl 10 adop( a resolution appnMng lhc final plat oi lhc
-chicken Ranch Esutes" Subdhision. He explained Iha! !his is a recommendation from lhc Plamung
Commission 10 apprm-c I subdivisio n b)' resolution ror the "'Chicken Ranch Estates" which is a
subdi,ision localed on lhc west side of Sou1h Huron Stroct in lhc 4)00 blocl<. He said lhc subdivision
iL<clf is lhc acalion oflh-c IOU 001 ofwhal cuncnlly a,nsists oflhr,c parcels. Mr . Still advised lbat on
!hose lhn:c parcels arc a local of nineteen ch,'Clling unilS. He staled .--..1 Mr. Nestler is lhcjoint owner of
this propcny and has r<qucstcd !his subdivision lo CS5CTitially eliminate a significant number of non-
conforming units and also 10 create one 1"1ilding site . Mr. Still noted Iha! !his propcny is zoned R-1-A .
Thal all oflhc lots proposed in !his subdi'Jision will conform to lhc R-1-A :zone distriCI standanls, 'l\ilh lhc
cxccpl'on lhat then, i.rc two IOU thal will have struCIUrCS Iha! do not meet the side yard sctbaclt
rcquin:menlS . He staled 1ha1 as lhc stall' n:Yiewed !he proposal s ii was tbcir position that that is a minor
price to pay for the di.mi.nation of a substantial number of non-a,nforming lots and also to crea1e one t\C\\'
building si1e in the City . He Slid based on lha1 and based on the cvidcncc prescnled al the public bearing
bcfon: lhe PIBMing Commission . they arc rcqucsting Iha! Council approve this proposed subdivision.
Council Member Halhaway asked if we arc okay on 1hc faCI Iha! on the original dra,.fog ii st-. din
access and parking and now )'OU arc replacing ii ,.;,h just gravel. B=usc, she said, she knows lha1 then:
was some question awhile back as lo whal an -impcrvioos surface" is and wha1 was rcqu irtxl and wbcthcr
we can go with gra"cl on top of di rt as an impervious surface or not. Mr . Stitt sail we have alk:wed
gra vel as a dust f1"" surface for parking and in faCI Iha! often ""rts bcller as a less impermeable surface
than asphalt or concrete . Ms. Ha!h.lwny said she wanlcd to make sure we arc being consistenl with wtu\t
we have done prc,ioosly. Mr. Stin said )'CS .
Council Member Waggoner noted that four of those lots arc going to have ncuss on to Huron Street. Mr .
Still said lhal is coma. Mr. Waggvr.er asked when, the•=~ is for lot one . Mr . Still advised Iha! lot
one has a. he bcliC\'CS.. thirty foot "-1dc easci,cnt that runs d:Jc nonh to Quincy . Mr . Waggoner aid it
shows an eighteen foot wide access . Mr Su n said okay 1?ten cightCC'-n feci and lhat there is an acass
cascmcn l fort \.,. property that has cxistct?. He said thl.1 particular property will increase in siu as a
result of this subdivision. but the access will r o1 chan ic as a result of this subdivision .
Council Member Waggoner ulc.ed if there a"C -:::,t a.t.cr lots that aa::ess that casement also.just north of
1hcrc . Mr . S1i11 said not 10 his knowledge . lie sait. ifyoo look al !he applicant's cxhibil 1ha1 sho'l\s the
property there 1s or e lot that acccs.scs tl:.at t!ue north of tile subject propcrt). Mr. Waggoner asked if it is
pan of the lot 1wo or the Hasting subdivi ~il,n . Mr. Stitt said yes . Mr . Waggoner ashd who main 1ainli it.
Mr. S1in replied that ii 1s a private ca.scm r.·nt . a priva te access. and. allhoubh he was .,ot sure who
main1ains it . Mr . Still said ii is not the Ci ty .
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Cooncil Member Vonninaa IIUd bow., tlloy act to that propcny, to wbicb Council Member Wiqins
responded lhlt ii comes oll'Qulncy. Mr. Vonnl111& racd why they don't ju!! 1ell thll property with lot
five and four and throe and two . Mr. Nmtlcr rapondod fn>m the audience that it is not ows. lhlt it is
eight f.., f=• th t ,1eighl,on. Mr. Slia aid ~ is I rocordod easement to provide""'""' to what will
become IOI nwnbo:r one of this IUhdivisian.
Council Member Wog;;on,, asked if Ihm: is some sort of mainlCOIJICC a8J'CIOIIIOOI, aa:ess aan,cmc,,t or
casement agn,cl1l"..nt between the propaties in,-ol\'Cd u to who mainlains it. Mr. Still r,spondcd 1h11 he is
not familiar with that casement and sugge,led tllll Mr. Nntler 'l\ould be Ible to provide that inform1tion .
Council Member Habenich1 asked how nw,y residents live there now. Mr . Stitt stated that there were
nineteen units there in a comb ination of five or rue st.ructwcs. Some of those struc:turcs. be said. have
been demolished. so CWTCDlly "• are do,o11 to four or live dwelling units, and they will Ill be single family
dwelling units at the completi® o(this Dlbdivision process .
Mayor Bums asked iftl1is literally was aclud<en coop. Mr. Stiu said that is correct.
COW1C1I Member Habenicht asked if thc people cuncn1ly living in these low renl units could be put 10
1ouch ,.,lh the Housing Authority Majer Bums said thal Mr. Nestler can talk about lha1 as he has talked
10 him aboul that before . Mr. Jerry Nestler said lhe people have been given almost six months llDlicc and
they have them 111 conlacl with the Housiag Aulllority and most of them ha,,. moved out of the
community, one bought a house and the ranaiDdcr have found Olher housing in the Englewood Area. He
said that adcquale notice had been gi,u ud they were liberal abou1 gettin g oul of their leases so they
CO<Jld find something and go there "1th funds.
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Ms. Habcnichl said she was no1 suggesting pu1ting the burden on '\-Ir . Nestler . bout rather tha1 perhaps lhc •
Cit) could assist if anyone was having trouble locating housiug. Mayor Bums said 1h11 was a good
question , thal he jUSI happened 10 be talking 10 Mr Nestler onc, oy abooul tha1 and was 1old lha1 they ha,-c
addressed that.
Council Member Waggoner asked t1111 someone address water and SOl''Cr aa:css points for the proposed
lots . Mr. Stiu said that the only propose.. that ,.,11 oot have waler is proposed IOI number four . All lhe
other lots have individual scr'\'ice lines and. he bclic,,u, individual sewer lines. He said lo( one has a
water line that is in that eighteen f001 casement and at some poin1 in the fu1urc when 101 four is dC\·elopcd
a nM· scl'\i cc line will be ins1allcd from Huron to 101 one through an casement. He said that has been
rcvi°"'Cd i,y 1he Utililics Depa,1men1 and 1hey appro\·ed ii.
Mayor Bums asked how much of this is new construction . Mr . Still responded 1ha1 there ,.;11 be one new
house bouillon proposed lot four . Lots one. n-,,. lhrec. and five , he said, ha,·e existing homes on them .
Mayor Bums asked if lhe homes arc being remodeled . Mr . Nestler said not extensively, jUSI cabine1ry .
carpet. paint and things of that sort.
Mayor Bums asked if lhc IOIS on Huron already ha\'e aa:css to the st reel . Mr. Nestler said lhcy do have
access. Mr. Stitt said the proposed subdhision really docsn ·1 chang~ the circumstances for IW one. two.
lhrec and four .
The resoluti on was assigned a number and read by 111Jc :
RE SOUITION NO . 47 . SERIES OF 1996 •
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A RESOLUTION APPROVING 1l!E SUBDMSION OP PROPERTY LOCA11!D ON 11iE WEST
SIDE Of 1llE 4300 BLOCK OF soum l!'.JRON STIU!l!T.
COUNCIL MEMBER WJGGINS MOVED, AND IT WAS SECONDED, TO APPROVE AGENDA
ITEM II (a) (Iii) -llSOLUTION NO. 47, SERIES OF 1!196.
Council Member Wiggins said he wholeheartedly agrees with ii.
Motion carried .
Ai,s: Council Member, Hathaway. Wnnlttag. Wiggins, lub:nicht,
Waggoner, Clapp. Burns
Nays : None
(iv) Mlr)-or Bums said that although he would be abllainlng from the VOie on this
ilem. he would like to n:ad the beading. Aller r<ading the heading of !he bill. he said thal he will abslain
because he is the chairman oC the Housing Authority Board .
City Anomey Brotzman presented a ra:ommcndation from the Housing Alllbority to adopt a bill for an
ordinana, approving an Intcrgo,-cmmcntal Agn,cmcnt for the 1996 Arapoboe County Community
Devclupmcnl Block Grant Progrun. M1 . Brotzman said this : o the tnlditloal block grant plOgrUII which
"~ have been doing for a nwnbcr of year... He said ii tnlCks the previous ag,cemenlS for the block gran1
program . They ha,~ broken this into tlmlc scp&Rle pieca as rcqui~ now I>)· the State. but in all Olhcr
aspcctS it remains the same
Council Member Hathaway said it is the sam<' 45 wha1 we have ever applied for previ~isly and we ba,-c
always. C\'Cr')' year, specified \\hal we were going to use the specific grants for so this isn 't any different in
that regard. City Attorney Brotzman said Iha! is comet.
The Cit) Cieri< was asked 10 read Council Bill No . 26 b)' title :
COUNCIL BILL NO 26. INll\ODUCED BY COUNCIL MEMBER HABENl CHT
A BILL ff);. A~' ORDINANCE APPROVING AN'J AUTHORIZING THE EXEClITION OF
IN'fERGOVERNHENTAi. SUBGRANTEE AGREEMENTS FOR THE 1996 ARAPAHOE COUNTI
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT Bl .OCK GRANT PROGRAM CONTINUING RESOLlITION
FUNDING BETWEEN THE ARA ~AHO E BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND THE CITY
UF ENGLEWOOD .
COUNCIL MEMBER HABENICHT MOVED. AND IT WAS SECONDED, TO APPROVE
AG ENDA ITEM 11 (a) (h·) • COUNCIL BILL NO. 26 .
Ayes · Council Members Halhaway. Vonnittat. Wiggin s. Habcnkhl.
Woggoner. Clapp
Nays: None
Abstain : Mayor b ums
Mou on carried
(\') Dl\ision Chief Moore prcscnlcd a """1mmcndation from the Dcpartmcn1 of
Safc1, Scnicc.s 10 adopt a bill for an ordinance prohibiting tobacco llSC by minors He adviiCd that this
ordu~ncc ·,asically prohibits the possession or consumplicn of tobacco products by undcragt persons ,
bas1call~ ina1\'iduals age SC\'Cnt«n and under . Primaril y in public pl aces. alt~gh he poinled out. there
are iome provtsl0111 for cnfon:emenl oe ~ pn,pc,1y. Mr. Moon: lllled U is a Slriel liJIJUity cdr:mc,
which means !hat inlenl is 0011 ractor and scllodu1e of fine 11 up to a S100 and N boon of public senrice.
The City Clcrlt wu 1,Jltcd to read Council Bill No. 2j by title :
COUNCIL BILL NO . 25 , INTRODUCED BY COUNU L MEMBER WAGGONER
A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE PROHJBmNG TIIE POSSESSION OF TOLACCu PRODUCTS BY
MINORS IN 1llE CITY OF ENGLEWOOD , COLORADO BY AMENDING TITLE 7, CHAPTER 6E,
OF TIIE ENGLEWOOD MUNICIPAL CODE WTrn TIIE ADDITION OF A NEW SECTION 8,
ENTl11.ED ILLEGAL POSSESSION OR CONSUMl'TION OF TOBACCO PRODUCTS BY AN
UNDERAGE PERS0.'1 .
COUNCIL MEMBER 'V.· AGGONER MOVl:D, AND IT WAS SECONDED, TO APPROVI:
AGENDA ITEM NO. 11 (1) (v} • COUNCIL BILL NO. 2.~
Council Member Habenicht advised that she bas had a couple comments lhat were qucstiouing it and
being againsl it. Sbc said sinoo tho llcrald aniclc appeared. the annmcnlar)· by Council Member
Waggoner, she bas oot heard anybody complain aboul ii. She commenlcd that she though! tlic rotionalc
"'-as quite well stated . very positive.
Mayor Bums said he feels tho SIJDC way . He OO(cd IIICn: has been a lot of publi cil)' in l1IC last fc,o· tDOllths
abcut l1IC 1obaa:o industry . That he has heard some startling n:ports abcut the numbcn of)1lWI& people
that arc starting 10 s,nokc pursuant to some of the advertising. especially geared toward them . Which he
stated be lhinl<s is a n:al concern .
\yes : Council Mcmbcn Hathaway , Voruin.11g. Wiggins. Habenicht.
Waggoner. Clapp, Bums
Nays : None
Mouon carried .
(b) Approve on Second Readmg
There were no addnional items subm itted for approval on sc.cond reading. (Sec Agenda Item 10 • Con.sen!
Agenda .)
12 . Gcnual Discussion
(a) Mayo~, Choice
I. Mayor Bums ad,iscd tha, he allendcd, "ilh lhc Cily Manager and Bob Simpson, the Crai g
Hosp itaJ lnlcrim Care Fac ility dc:c. . .:.a tion on Frida). which was quite imprcssi\'C. He said they rccci\'ed
pu blic comment and co ngratulations on behalf of our staff. Chuck Esterly, Jim BlwncnthaJ . Ben Green e
and Ladd Vostl)" for the worl< the Cil)' has done coopcraling and coordinating with Craig Hospital on lhis
and he said he feels some real kudos should be extended to the staff on this . He noted they ,~:re ,-cry
appreciative both publicly and by the comments of Dennis O'Mallcy. the Director and staff. He said he
feels there should be somclh.ing placed in their fiJc. whether it be a letter or wha1evcr commending these
members of our staff for the excellent V<'Ork they ha\'C done on that facility .
2. Mayor Bums commcnlcd th.2.1. as Council knows from infonnation in their packc1.5., RTI) is going
1011.Y.~ :1 special cere mony on Thursday morning al 11 :CXI a.m. at the Gates Rubber Plant C:\1ension of the
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light rail. He DOied that Secrm,y al'Tnnspor111tlon Federico Pala ii going to be ill ..-.oe to .,..,....
the full fundina grant asr.......i tbr the -.uuc:tion of the IOUlhwal corridor liaJ,t rail line. Mr. Bums
said he hopes Cffl)'ODC cu ..., It because It is aolng to be a fine occasion. He collllJlCllled that despite
what some of the colwmtlsu and pundits thl!lk, he thinks this ii going to be flllldod and it Is going to be
built. He wanted t, thank C\a)MO for all aftheir ,upport on this . He stated he bopod dlat all of the
citiuns ofthls City ,.'ho tallllod before the RID board in this matter can make that IIIOCliq. becauoe they
roally nlade a dill'ercnce and he thinlts that Is very important.
3 Mayor Bums presenUd :lie Housing Authority 's Annual poymenl in lieu of taxes in the amount of
$1 6, IS U7. He ga,,. the chec:IL to the City Manager 10 be 1p1>1Wriatcly deposited
(b) Counct1 Member's Choice
(i) A proclamation honoring Austin Gomes as Englcwo oJ's Citizen of the Year for
1996 was c,,nsider<:d Mayor Bums noted that Mr. Gomes ,.,11 be hoooml ne,ct Monday night at a special
occasion at the Malley Ctntcr
The resolution was assigned a numbe r.
RESOllJTION NO -16 . SERIES OF 1996
A RESOllJTION HONORING AUSTIN GOMES AS ENGLEWOOD 'S CITIZEN OF l1{E YEAR FOR
1996 .
COUNCIL UNANIMOUSLY MOVED AND SECONDED, TO APPROVE RESOLUTIO "i NO. -16,
SERIES OF 1996.
Motio n carried.
A)'CS" Counci l Member.; Hllhaw1y. Vonnittag. Wiggins. lbtenicht
Waggo11c,, Clapp. Bums
Nays : None
(ii ) Council Member Hatha\li.1y :
I. COUNCIL MEMBER HATHAWAY MOVED, AND IT WAS SECONDED. TO HOLD A
CITY COUNG!.STUDY SESSION ON TUESDAY, MAY 7, 1996 AT5 :3GP.M. TO MEET WITH
REPRESEl\i'TATIVES FROM CLARION ASSOCIATES.
Coun cil Member Hathaway said she is assuming thal this is an open meeting. Mayor Bums said that yes
itis.
Ayes · Council Members Hatha\\'3)', Vonnitta g. Wiggins. Habenicht.
Woggoncr. Clap p, Bums
Nays None
.~10 11o n carried
2. She said she wanted 10 add . n:garding th e RTD signing on Thursday, that they did set up n
sh ulllc uansport from the Cindcn:Jl a Cil)· site which should pm\'e Uu,t they an: inlcl"CStcd in coming this
,ray . She stzlcd they did make very strict commcnls that ii will be extremely limited parking down there
at Broadway and 1-25 . She said it is extremely limited if you go lhcrc 111 the middl e of the day anyway .
She en coura ged t·vcr-yonc 10 park at Ci nderell a City and bus it down there Council Member Vonniuag
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Slid you coold go downtown 111d like Ille uaiD out. Ms. Hathaway aid you could like Ille uaiD bad< out
to Broadway and 1-25 too, wbicbc-,.., -..ocb.
3. She said DRCOG , WI Wednesday night. did a study ICllion on the proposed TIP, Ttansponation
lmpro>-cmcnt Plan She said they an: still mai.alainiDa the funding .. I bac:l<,up funding for Rm ·and
light rail. jllSI in case . Ms. Hathaway added tbal thcR ,-..,. •~.o some additions of projecls that came
from Colorado Department ofTrmsponation (COOl) rogions one and four, but it docs not totally O\"Cll!I
affcci anything th.at \\-C have CW'ffiltly in tl,c plans. such as the widening on Broadway from Yale to Floyd
and also the U.S. 285/Broadway bridge. She said they an: continuing to maintain their positions in tha1
panicular plan . So, she said. &he docs not think ,.,, have any worries just )'Cl. She commented that the
only thing th.al would change our stalUS in !he panicul3r plan would be if their qual ity conformity findings
show th.al !hose '"" should be df'l>l)pC(i and $be said &he can ·, imagine that thal would have any affect one
way or the other, bu! it still has 10 go through thal review as well . She said she will keep Council
informed in case it docs drop anywhere in its status. Mayor Bums said,--. ,-;11 ccnainly wan! to know .
Ms. Halhaway "id we don 't w.mt 10 lose ii like,. .. did 1wc year.; ago .
(iii) Council Member Vormittag said he hoped 10 sec Mayo r Bums on Thwsday. he
said he was going to try to make it down there.
(iv) Council Member Wiggins :
J. He said he wanlcd to ga,-c kudoo 10 the Parir.s and Rocrca1ion Dcpartmcnl as he asked lhcm 10
come oul and help sandblast graffiti in the neighborhood and lhey did and did a nice job. He wan1ed 10
pass his thanks along to them .
l . He sai d he also wanted 10 thanl< Public Worlts. specifically Rick Kahm . He said he asked him to •
check a gtuation in the neighborhood. a water drain problem and Rick has taken care of that so he offered
kudos 10 th em 111so.
3. He s.1id he is \l.tJildering why he is getting so much stuff in the mail. study session notes from
April ISi . Apri l 81h . Apnl 151h. April 22nd. here. I understand why "~'d gel !he 29th , bu! he ""ndercd
\\ h, lh~ arc getting all this extra study session notes .
Mai·or Bums said he tl10ugh1 !hey \\"Crc rcquCSlcd by Council Member Habenichl and he asked if 1ha1 is
right Counci l Member Habenicht said no . She said ·we haven 't been receiving stud)' session notes .
Discussion ensued and several Council Members concuned that they received several sets of notes.
Council Member Wiggins said he i.s at a loss as to "h)· they're getting these . He commented that he is
kind of gelling the impression that they're getting in on an inves1igation by Mrs . Habenicht on everything
that is going on Cinderella City . He commented on the duplic.1tion of al l this paperwork. and if she 's
going to run a pri\':Hc investigation into C\1:1)1hing thai's going on. he said then give her the paperwork.
but he docs not want to see it.
Counci l Member Habenicht said she wanted to oo~nmcnl on that. she said as a matter of fact that she had
asked for ccnain copies of study session minut~ and !hey \l.'Crc forwarded 10 her. She explained thal
when she asked for !hem she was 1old b) Sue 1ha, she hadn't complcied all !he minules or the April
hlCCtings yet Ms . Habcnichl said Council has not received these yet , that she thinks this is th e fir.:t lime
Council 's received these April S1udy session min utes.
(v) Council Member Clapp : •
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~CltyC-U
May,, I"'
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I, COtll'ICll, Ml:MIIR CLAPP MOVID, AND rr WAS SECONDED, THAT ALL OP THI:
CINDERELLA CTTY DEVELOPMENT ll'UILIC INPUT PROCESS II COMPLITID PRIOR
TO DIFllil.JIIC ANY TI.NANT MIX.
Mayor Burns asked if Ihm wen, any q.-ions. : -le noled that Council talked about this in one of th<ir
meetings recently .
Council Member Clapp noted that that was last >WlCk and it wu ,omcthing that Council had kind of
agreed upon . She said in tallr.ing with people in the community , that they would like some assurance . She
aa1cd that she docs not see as that would be any problem .
In response 10 Council ~ember Wiggins, Council Member Clapp repealed her motion .
Council Member Hathaway asked if she MS referring to the scheduled public meetings . Council Member
Clapp said yes .
Council Member Hathaway pointed out Lha1 public input is also going 10 continue when the PUD starts.
Council Member Clapp said that is correct. and in response to Council Member Waggoner she confirmed
that she is specifically talking about the four meetings .
Vott results:
Ayes :
Nays :
Mo1ion curicd
i',uu"<:il Mt mhcrs H!lth away. Vonnittag. Habenicht Waggoner,
C->t,;,p , 8l!mS
Council Member w;ggins
Ms. Clapp said she did no•, l:now how many . \n r~'! ,.,·,:1bcrs arc aware of the vandalism that is
taking place in area on tires . Si,e h .. 'I,,\~ quite ~,i;,•1f: ... "! ., ; sa.: wan1c.d 10 infon n Council of that fact .
She ad,iscd that she has h,d requests within the ;soo block of South Sherman for a light in the
center of the block on the west hand side . Shc said that is in the middl e of Ch:m:1)11 Part and it is ve,y,
\'Cl)' d.1rk in tl~I area . She said ifthi., is any indication of what \l.C t.ave coming this summer sh e AAid sh.:
1hinks we should look into puning a li~hl there .
Council Me mber Clapp stated Iha\ '-hC lfiadc a request in regard to numbers for Cinderella City .
She sa:d she dad rceti \e an appraisal . which sh: requested back in March, and in looking at that she noted
11 is a 93 app raisal Ms. Clapp said she is wondering at this point if they should not be looking at getting
a ne" nrPraisnl b.'L\Cd on bare land . She COff,mcnlcd that II just seems to her that the 93 is an awful old
11ppra 1sn l She said you wouldn't sell your house based on 93 figures , so she questioned why wou ld you be
lookrng nt a 9) nppraisaJ to U building into our development there .
Mayo r Oums noccJ 1hat a lot o(things changed on that site since 93 in 1cnns ofoccupane). ~.s. Clapp
agreed
Co uncil Mcmhcr HaihnY.:I ) no1cd 1ha111 depends on what basis you're using for the appraisal a,; to
Y.hcl hcr ~ou ·re usrng bcsl possible use. whc1hcr you're using comparables, whether you're using
surroundm i;s
Council t--.t cm bcr Clapp ,1a 11..'d she th1n1ts something based on b.1rc land value .
~CIIYC•llcll
May',1"6
Pap,21
Council Member Halhaway said )'Cl. but what sbe is Sl)'i•a is whatever tltal one WIS bucd on oould be •
1otally diffen:nt si tuation now IIIY"'IY . Because. sile tlOICd, if it WIS based on c:omparablcs in the area of
shopping cenlcn, if ii WIS base.i on bcsl possible we of that particular silc, site WIS not sun: what the
ninety--thtt.e one was based on .
Mayor Burru ,aid he is not sure cilhcr. lie asked Ci!) MaJ\"ller Clark if !here is some nalural process here
that we will go through to get o:,e an~~...-ay .
Council Member Hathaway .siled if it is a mool poinl if. in essence, il's being handed cn-crto us and then
turning arow,d over 10 a dc;dopcr. Site ,.;din olher words \\'C need to know what Iha! base value is, bol
is then: a tangible value in il at all. whc11 all you're doing is flipping it O\'Cr.
Mayor Bums noted he~ 001 know that that W'CM~i f change anything as far as its basic value .
Council Member w; ggins asked whal would 11tcy do, knol'ing lite va lue and wherc would lltcy go with it?
Council Member Haihaway aske.i if the value l'ill change ani1hing as far as !he dcvclopmenl is
00111:cmcd? She said she is not sure it would. tMt when you're just flipping it from one party to another,
and "-c · re just the mediator .
Council Member Clapp stated it might significantly change it and it might significantly change the
negotiations ifwc find out we're not in the ballpark. Council Member Hathaway said okay .
Council Member Clapp exp laJncd 1ha1 she is lt)ing 10 do her own fc.sibilily, and she needs 10 know in hcr
mi:id 1ha1 this is !he righl thing 10 do as far as the negotiations part l'ith Skip . She said she docs not
think that we're there yet on the co ntracts. She noted \\'C'rc working on them and she wants to make sure •
thal the numbers arc all right bcforc she goes forward ,.;th ii . She staled she \\1>Uld like 10 have a land
appraisal. a basic raw land appraisal , based on loday's value. 001 a 93 value . She said she thinlts thafs
significant .
Council Member Habenicht asked if it could be done upon the same basis that the prior one was done in
199 3. and then that way it '\,\'OU.Id be a consistent thing to be able to compare ooc to the oth-!r.
Coulh:1I Membe r Hathaway said yes. ap1 (,; to app les .
Council Member Habenicht sai d that based on that. and she lhinks it contained market analysis .
comparablcs. that that makes sense to her .
Council Membe r Hathaway said she thini...: it "'-as ~~ric on comrarablcs but she docs not honestly
rcmcr.ibrr
Council Member Vonnillag asked Counci l lifcmbcr Clapp if she was making a motion .
Counci l Member Waggoner asked why you would appr.usc it on bare. raw land, thou&h , why not appraise
it for highest and best use ?
Council Member Hathaway said she thought the comparable usage one was done, that it \\'aS a
-:ombmatio n of highest and best use of comparable land of lha1 si1.c in the metro area .
Council Member Waggone r said yes. he didn 't look al it that close . •
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Council Memberliltha. ,y aid 1h11 ifit'■aot WMt it Wllbuccl°", I\ ltn'tpng to ...... good todo
one like that new, but tbcy-.Jc.' lavc tochldl.
Council Member Clapp said thal what she WIS gcttinP, •I last week. and wh■I she •• 11111 trying to g,ot -~ is
basically finding out what it's WOllh. whll lhe developer is sinking into thll land. to nlAke wre ti.al wc'rt
in the ballparl<. That we're gettillg the beSI vnluc for tllat that w: can possibly ,rt.
Council Member Halhlway asked if she meant as••· as :l<vclopmont is ooncemcd',
Council McmbcT Clapp said yes. as fu as C\'Ct)1hing .
Council Member Hathaway commented 1h11 whal she W2S trying 10 say was thal he i• r.01 sin,:iug tnoncy
inlo raw land. because -~·re Dipping it. But. she said. what yr ,•re talking abou~ what i,., cnus up with al
the end, Is ii going 10 be -ii ii to the ('i1y for what we gave up .
Council Member Clapp said that 's ,.-ltcrc she was going Mlh i~ lhe demolition .
Mayor llums ad\ised that the C11y docsn'I own thissitc, except for the parking, at this l")int.
Coum:il Member Hathaway noced thal still that'sa significanl pan ofa pica: of land .
Mayor Bums said Yt'C'rc facilitating it.
Council Member Vonnittag asked ifwe are going lo ~11 it all?
Ci1y 1\1'.anagcr Clul< Slllcd his onl) arca of confusion is how do you get it to the bore land stage. because
it 's :iot t;ar,, land now. He DOied lhe 93 appn,isal tool< into account the fact thal thert wen, building
improvements lhcrc.
Council Mrmbcr O.app said you lake into acxounl the demolition. the salvage value. you subtract
demolition. yoo add in sah-age v;,'uc. all tl,esc things . these numbers, should wort.. and you should come
up \\ilh a ballpark
Cil)· Manager Clark said 1ha1 if"~ do an appr•isal rtpon. !ha! should include 1he demolition cost. or
!i.hould it assume that there 's nothing there. and there 's just bare 1and?
Council Member Clapp said no. it shouldn't. She said she litinks what Council Member Habenicht was
gelling at 1s a gCIOd point. comparing apples to apples is good . and we can~ from there .
Coun ci l Mcmbc.r Habenicht said she thought she lus a copy with her.
Council Member Halha\\'3) said in other \\1'rds. what would ii ha,~ hccn ""nh ifthc:y'd don.: lhe 93
appraisa l based on no imp: ovemcnts on it. She said she 's ,igh1. if you take what tha1 appraisal was, and
sc hedule in what il's going lo COS1 lo demolish and whal they can gel l>lck on salv•ge. lhcorttically, you
11ughl to be able to come up "ith a number that would closely reprc ..... '"flt in 96 dollar.. what it would have
ttn in 93 ha d it been a scraped si1e .
. :a\or Bums said he is still not sure you're talking about the same thinf . He asked if she is talking abou1
cranking in the dcmoli1ion costs or not ?
CCMICII ....... Clll!P c,q,lainod Y"' lallc die lppl'lial.,... llld yoa lWt raklaalll oldie oilier .......
whether it be I plus or I neptive 111d )'OIi come up with I lltlllplrll n,u,e . AIIII tbol ...id 1M )'OIi I
good Idea arwbdher you 're gdllnc pd value out ar.,-rqoliallons.
Council Mamler llllhlway aid 11111 la adter wonla, if Ille value ol the propctty eadl up belna, ay ror
example , Mccn million dollm. ...S you doe 't end up plUIII dial UUl!lible wlue ol imprv,'CIIICIIU on
that propcr1 y, oaa, Skip Is done. or wboeYcr is done. tbell the City hu not reali:red any net increuc in
value or that pn,pcny to us.
Council Member Clapp ootod it could ,en ao In the hale. or it could be the otbor WI)' in our flVOI'. She
said she d.lCS not ha\'C any idea.
COUDCil Mcaollcr Hatltaway said the DIiiy problem with tbol plllia&lar philolopby is lbll you 're only
basing it oo property tax appraisal value ud wilM the City~~ on lbll putia,lar value. Sbc
commented tblt you 're not realizing what you -.Id be getting in. for lll those Olhcr taxes and Olhcr
intangible ,-alucs, that )'OU CID 't poll illo 111 _.;111. For illllallCC, W said. sales and USC lax, and that
son o(lbing. She said shc doa· not knc,a•. She noted w is not swc the number's going •o be I valid
number to use lor UYlbing.
Mayor Bwns Slated he is still not AR <Ws 1JC11 us any place, bocausc the tillc uamten fro'1I Eqllilll>lc to
the dc\'Clopcr, the City really doesn 't bold tillc to that. Alld. the one scenario,. ... that the title would go
directly frnm Equilable to the dc\'Clopcr. So. he reitcnted, he is not sun: this tel15 )'OU anything.
Council Member Habenicht stated ,lie thinks it 's appropriate to have the appraisal . and to have I mon:
current appraisal , and she thinks ii could be done in tho SltnC WI)' that this one was done . She said Ibis
one did gi,,o appraisal , which bad an Climlled value gi,..,. for bore land. This appniSII makes the
wump1ion !hat the site is entirely clclle11111> ready for..,. r<laiJ development
Council Member Hatha\\~l' asked if she is reading from the 937
Council Member Habenicht said she thinks that it makes perfectly good sense to sec what changes then:
might ha\'e been .
Mayor Bums sai d he is not su rr. ii makes any sense at Ill.
Council Mem ber Wiggins staltd he doesn't either.
Council Member Hathaway asked who 's going 10 pay for it7
Counci l Member Cla pp asked if"~ don 't haw th e moocy to get an app~isal .
Council Member Hathaway said she is just asking. She asked if Ms . Clapp is suggcstiog that the City
initial(, an appraisal and Mr . Clark 10 pay for an appraisal on this panicuiar p~cny7
Council Member Clapp said yes, the City should. She staled she thinks this COlllCS up lo •<~ .. ~ •• ,ting
our mon,)"s wonh out ofth,n:. She acknowledged that"~ don 't own the feol print . ba .. <vcr, she said.
we arc Laking some risks 011 this. we arc pu1ting monies into hand we need 10 make sure we :ire ~citi ng
the mOSI out of thi s dcvelupnv.nt. She said she thinks lhal 'sjust part of doing good business ,
understandi ng the num bers and undemanding what you 're dealing ,.;111 and that is really Ill she 's asking
for .
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~llunlCIIIIIIMatlld 111M ..... _.........,. lion IO conlinue IO Ulldercul Ille~
we've been ~na on and be Is IIOl ae tbis .,U,. lll)'place.
Cowlcil Member ffllhrMly lllled iflliil • aClicill-. IO diru:t Mr. Clar!< IO do ID oppaisal OIi the
Cindotdll Cll)' pn,pctty? Council Malllcr Clapp aid ya.
Council Member Hathaway ..,.....,. ML Clapp make it ill the ronn ofa molioo and Council cu vote it
up or down .
COUNCll. MEMBER CLAPP MOVED, AND rT WAS SECONDED, TBA T THIS COUNCll.
DIRECT STAFF, CITY MANAGO Cl.AIU(, TO DO AN OfflCIAL UPDATED 1'96
APPRAISAL ■ASED ON IIAW LAND AT 1111: CINDERELLA CITY SITL
Mlyor Bums tulted if lhcr< was any Olhcr discussioo?
Council Member Vorrniltag asked if LUI i• all theY want, Just bare land?
Council Member Waggoner said be docs POI know how you split out what wc own and what somebody
dllO owns, -..iuch is the problem.
City Muagu Clarl< said be is DOI ...., -the oppaisa1 buis. and be would .,...,, ID llllt to Ibo
app,aisal co...,...y lint and lbca o.aliao •1111 the buis, bccall5C ii'• bore land to be devoloped for what?
He noted that 's U,c only area be'• bung up on .
~.ouncil Member Waggoner advised LUI Equitable CMUS the air rights, and we only own to a point twelve
feet. or tm foct. above an X oa Ille _,...n. OYCr ~-
Cit)' Manager Clarl< ulted far Couacil IO lldp bun out on lits. He said Council basically "-ants a ....-r
for bore land, and then you want to-ii with• number on lhe demolition?
Council Member Clapp said DO, DOI IICCICSSlrily. She said she wants a number for bore land, and wants u,
sec what Skip is putting into this land. and based on tba~ she can come up with "ildbcr or not we're
gdting good \'al uc here . In other "'Ofds. she commen ted, that if he 's not putting hardly anything into this
in comparison 10 what the market value is.
Mayor Bums saitl what be is getting II is how can we give va lue for 10mct'1ing "~ don't own?
City Manger Clark said we can put• ,-a!uc on i~ lhc problem is what arc wc valuing. which pieces. He
said. bccall5C he 's supposed 10 gd lhe footprint. and then what is t'1c basis or the appraisal, it's bare land?
Council Member Wiggins asked for what ?
City Manager Clark ulted if it i• for four to live hundred thousand square roe1 or rctail.
Mayor Burns said he "'""d guess that's rigt.t. That that's 400.000 square feet or retail and cn tcnainmcnt.
Council Member Clapp said but basically were handing it 10 Skip to dcvdop . so she 's having I hard ume
understanding why it "'""d POI be significant.
City Manager Clark said what he is uying lo figure out is where you factor in lhc demolition cost to get it
10 bare land . bccall5C we can do an appraisal for bare la nd , He asked how do you get it to bare land. and
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then whM dl>)'OU then comptre ti......,... willl .._ bore 1111d ........ or how di> dlma .. flclon,d
in?
Council Member Clapp aid If you hive demolilia <m1S, mid ....... --. sbc felt yaa ca add wbat
he's sinklag 11110 lbc prnpony , and 0IJCl1l'afC it IOwhll Ws-111 and• if we're ia lbc bllljJart !here.
Council Member Waggoner stated ... don 't °"" Equitable or Men:antilc.
Council Member Clapp said no, but we do ha\,. a ,uuci interest. and if thole numbers are not in the
ballpark !hen that should be o(conocm and why aren't they?
Mayor Buns aid he docs not kmw whal the bolip.rlt is, and he asked Ml. Clapp wbat sbc _,.11y a
ballparlt7
Council Member Clapp explained that if the deYdopcr is not sinking in that mucJi money then she wants
10 see . She said he 's not, basically, bu)'i. ·git fmm us. or m1111 Equitable. so it woold be significant to
know what it is wonh and whal he Is putting inlo it.
Mayor Bums ad\i scd Ms Clapp that what be FU back is a ccnain pcftlClllale ol return on his lmal.cd
capilal and his dc\..,lopmcnt budget is.--(on ......, million dollars. He explained thal how that figures
in, as far as land ,..iue and thal. is that you ha : IO look al lbc entire picture of bis ie\'Cllal capilll and
what he FU back on il not just isolating .,. .._ site and talking about bare land. lie said he docs not
think that 's going 10 tell you that mucJi.
Council Member Habenicht stated that in 1993, it seemed prudent and "uc to set u -.,pqisal o( that site . •
She noted that when Council Member Clapp asked (or 111....,..;aJ of the site, this is wllat was presented
and it was done based on bare land, hued on lbc 1993 marltct. She said she thinks it's well Mlhin
reasonableness and being responsible to toow wbat it is that W<'re dcalillg with if ... blvc an appmisal
now. She IIOled she docs not see ll1Y problem with how you have to say it was done. Ibey.....,. able to do
it. they were able to do ii on ban: land, and this is a "'Ol' that we could ha\,. a comparison. to know what
the value olthe bare land is now as compared to ""31 it.,,.. in 19113. She reiterated that she d'.les not sec
thal there's• problem ,.;th that , and she thinks it's only.,;,. and pnident.
Council Member Waggoner asked i(thcy want the 50 .83 acres as a comparison 10 that ?
Counci l Member Habenicht said she thinks ii should be compared just cXICtly and dhcctly to that She
commented that she docs not know if Council read this. but that she read ii in its entirety and thought it
would be intm:sting to sec what this would be DOW and that she agn,cs "1th Council Member Clapp.
City Manager Clark asked if he rcmcmbcrc<! the appraisal rcpon 's market 'l'lluc on the site corrcctiy .
Council Member Habenicht said yes.
Council Mc.m...._.r Hathaway asked if that 's (or the Ml 50 .83 acrcs, ifit is for the whole property? Mayor
Bums said ii is for the who le property.
Council Member Habeni cht said she was noti cing that there seems to be some di scom(on on h'.c pan of
the City Attorney. City Attorney Brottman ad\iscd that if the City is doing appraisals. and,.,..,.
appraising other people 's property , that""' should no1 be disclosing the numbers for the price a:' srmcbody
else 's property . Council Member Hathaway asked °'"'n if it is a 93 number. City Attorney Brot.· .nan said
i( he ""' Equitable, did not think they '"'"Id be real co,nfona bl e ,.;th us apprais i g what the) own .
Counci l Member Ha 1naway said she understands that. Ci1y Attorney Brotzman advised that Cow ,cil •
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could dilCua it amona dleaah-a _,. __ ........ rar"""'....,. they ...... 'Ill 111d .. thi,..
they'n: la Udpdcm ri&ht _,,_.._udwllM tllelr......,,.,_._ Mr.~ llid lfltl
valuable to know what I. 'It _.,.., -ill, dlat'1 Ible, but be did not tbiDk M -IO Fl in I llpt
with Equillblc b)• disclosing wllal ft think their prapeny'1 WOllh .
City Manager Cllrit aid the only thin& be WIDl<d IO 11Y about thc ljJpllllll is that it ii a,, ~•IClled
markd Vlluc . He stated that --' ill 93 IOI I markd value and no one has come lloag and p.'lid that
·wkct value . So , he commcntal. Is the appnlal valid o, 1101 valid? He noted an appnlal 11 onl,y
. •lidalcd ur.til I buyer and seller p:I top:lbcr ,_ I price.
Count,1 Member Clapp said thal'sabo llllcd.., companblcs, and that type of thing. She DOied that if
you put your house on the IIIUUI. ils llllcd.., cm,puablcs and tho nwltct place In :,oar ara. they 11m:
guidelines that they go by on dap lih that thll are llallClardi1.cd.
Council Member Hathaway said sllc thinks the dilJcrence is that you own your house 111d we don't own
this paniadar property. Council Member Habenicht statal that ft CClllinly own pans of it . Council
Member HathaMy said WC 0"1l pons of ii.
Council Member Waggoner noted )'OU could sliU get an appraisal on thc whole property. depending upon
what )'OU want 1ppraiscd. He said tlllt )'OU •,,. got to ha\'C ...,,. definition of the aret that you Wlllt to
ha,-. appraised and whether thal includes the strip a:ong 285 , or what It might be, bec:ausc. u near u be
can tell there isn 't 50.83 acn:s doctt under today's circumstances.
Council Member HaU\1"1ly said that she thinks thot also included that north area partiag lol that "'""
under I separate lease hold to somebody dsc. and it's always been maintained as a sq,uate lcue hold. so
you can't C\'Cn include that.
Council Member Waggoner SIited that what he was told is there"'"" about fony acres, but you can
ocnainly get an appraisal on ,...., land. or raw land value for I specific ma.
Council Member Vormittag askal bow much that appraisal cost ? City Manager Clark said he did DOI
know. that tl\al "~s a preliminuy appraisal report we ha,-.n 't been able lo find . He acl\iscd. that Pun
Pepper ordered that -" out. Council Member Vonnirtag said you \\OUldn 't want 10 pay much mon:
than what that one would cost to do this. Mayor Bums said it 's got lo be several thousand dollm.
Council Member Waggoner said he did DOI know what else went with this. Council Member HathaMy
said it"'"' quiclt and dirty, bot it cost money .
Counct1 Member Waggoner said that what they ha,-. here is DOI a \'Cty extcnsi\'C 1ppraial. He DOied that
if you 're looking for a good appraisal . that what you have in those few papen !here is DOI• significant
appraisal .
Mayor Bums asked how long it taltc to get the appraisal if we ordered one?
City Manager Cl.lllt responded that be would want to ha,,. the appraisal lay out I scope and thc apprci.<:11
basis. and then ha\'C agreement in Council on that. because he is not sure what basis ii used. so we 're
going to ba,-c 10 lay ou t the issue to the appraiser. He said \\'C have to say we 're getting this down to bare
land. and the assumption or four hundred lo five hundred thousand square feet or retail . He asked if that
is nll Council needs or is there any other lcind or basis that they -7 He said then bring that back to
Council . make sure that C\el)i>od) is on the same page as far as the scope is. then let them go out and do
their appraisa l .
Mayorllunll_.,.IUI lie 1,_.11111 lfwepl i110C0111nct~wllh lhedcwlopcr
Iller tbc pulllic p1-■1 llld we're ill lh1 middle olllllt. 11111 ...,,.,.. 11W nkiag ror 1hi11ppnlllll. ii dud
going to hla& 11P tbc CDIIUICI ,...olillioa,?
Ciiy ManaF Clarl< staled lilllrwtll give ii tbc-priorily, lhal Ibey wltl 11111 OIi ii llnl lhi•g i• lhe
IIIOf1UlJI, if Ille Council .. dclircs.
Ma)'Or BWlll aid wbal you Wllll 10 do I.I come ...... wilh. ■cope o('Mllt .. we can deddo on tlll<:llr
whit we want Cily Manager Clarl< said yes. bo::aulo we WIJII to make IW'O --,toody u.,,4ulllndl what
is Ille exact appraisal basis being used. and lhcn Ibey go out and do 1h11. Mayor Bwns Aid yes.
COWICil Mcml>cr llabcnicbl said lhal she IIWIU it'1 importanl Iha! lhe appraisal makes 'liJC u■ump(iOlb
lha1 Ille sile is cn1irel • ,-1eam1 and rad)' ror...., rclail dl;,u01imcn1. °' ready for new ~,,....i.
Ciiy Manager Clari< conunenled lha1 Ille olhtroplion iljllst &Ive lhem ~'c 1993 aw,aiw and AY bere,
updlie Ibis. us, Ille same basis. Council Mcmbcr Habeni!ohl said yes. Ma,'"' Bums s,,d 1h11 , ,ay be lhe
easiest thing 10 do, jUSI lo get ii done . Cily Manager Clar, said 1h11 ,....)db: quidt and diny. (:llUDCil
Member Waggoner said 1h11 would be lhc Wiest •'ll' lo updalc 1M COfflflllllbles.
Ma)'Or B111111 lillled be would ravor Iha!. iftbal'• 111111 ,...,. &clng ID do. bcalUIC ... ,:ww lhal ,;o 're
going 10 get inlo '° much time here.
Cily Manager Clari< said his only concern is iflhcy'w plac:cd Ille value 10 1993 011 ii and if one •>,a:qilS
Ille survey, then Equilable sboold DOI be gifting Ille silc. Council Mcnbcr llabcnJ>i aid II WIS bl•-!"! OIi
bm land, aad sbc lhinks Iha!'• whnou'rc bearing 1h11. Ciiy Manlp Clar!·. sa,& ol<ay. •
Council Member Waggoner said he lhinks lbesc same people are in lJusiness 1oday.
Mayor Bwns said lha1 since we only iruwer Ille rooeprinl and we retain ownership or Ille parting. I>.• still
lhinks lhis is just confusing as C devil and ... does not know how )'OU splil ii 0UI alter you get il
Comcil Member Wiggins said lhal's her problem. she'• asked for ii so she can si1 !here and play wilh ii
all day, wbalcv,:r she wanlS 10 do wilh il Council Member Clapp sai d yes lhal's all I wanl 10 do.
Cil)• Manager Clark asked whal ifwe ask for a ha."' land and four hundral 10 lh-c hundral lhousand
square foci of retail and wha1 1hc footprinl is worth, and whal Ille rest of il's worth . Council Member
Habeni tasked why do you have lo do all lhaL wbcn we're just llSking for something simple? Mayor
Bums aid bec;ause if you don'I do lhal he thinks you 've just got a worthless piece of paper lhal does DOI
mean anything. Council Member Wiggins said he agreed wilh Mayor Bums. lhal it', going IO be a
worthless piece of paper. ii COSIS lwo lhoosand dollars. and she wanis ii . Council Member Clapp said she
does not see ii lhal way .
Council Member Halhaway said nol lo mention Ille fact lha1 it's under appeal to Ille -=:or anyway and
what he: asscsscs it as is a ocbulous number.
Mayor Bums Did he is not sure where we arc at this point
Council Memb.~i Wiggins said we 've got a motion anu I seco nd. let 's \'Ole on it and end the discussion.
Mayor Bums asked for any funhcr discussion . Being none he called for the vote . •
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Voce,-lu:
Ayes : Cauacll Membcn Vormlaq. HabenlchL w....,.,.,, Cla!'P
Nays: Council Membcn llllhawly, Wigin1, Bums
Motion ..,,;ed.
Mayor Sums SUlted the molicn carried. He med if Council undcntands. Council Member Wiaim aid
no. Council Member Hathaway said City Maagcr Cwt bas got to outline that now. Mayor Bani uted
if lie i, going to oomc: back and outline? City Manager Cwt said we'll come back and oullltle It.
Mayor Burns SUll<d that that's why he vocal against iL bcclusc he "WUll 'I sun: whit tbc audine-and
what w.! V.'Crt voting on.
f',uncil Member Waggoner suggested ltlllrllke a look at the Justin Haynes appraisal.
•l . Council Member Clapp Slated that die did recen-. some al the other figures that she requcsled
from Mr. Clarlt and ,he thanked him. Sbe Slid she was just curious as to what soura, be got the figures. if
thal WIS fll)m dc,'Clapcr or oth<:r? City MIDlger IClartt aslced which figures . Ms. Cllj,p said dcmJlition,
environmental . City Manager Clarlt said thal c1111e fTOm the developer.
Ms. Clapp ad\iscd that she has yet to recrh-. pie and 1111 and remediation and salvage. Sbe llid she
was wondering at 11-hat poinl she can C,q>Cd to ro:eive those figures . City Manager Cwt uted if llhc
incant grad•. m1 and salvage? Ms. Clapp said and remediation . She Slid it has been I few MCb. City
Manager Clarlt ld>iscd that we can ask tbc clo\-.li>pcr to axnc up with Iris best guess. The padinc would
1,c a function of tbe site plan. depending up,n thc fmal site plan. bow much grading goes i,i, gndillg and
fill . and salvage. normally what happens is 11111 Uicrc's a salvage credit when the demolition coauact is
let . so "t could sec if the developer could come up with 111111C type al numbers. but they 1111)' not
necessarily be rcliablc until,.,. get do\,11 rigbl into the operation itself. Ms. Clapp Slid oby.
Coonci l Member Waggoner Slid it is thc remediation you arc talking about . the demo, the ~tal.
I.ls. Cl!p(t said yes. in a nutshell . She said she is trying to sec what he's sinki ng into thc property.
City M>nagcr Clarlt amiscd that in thc remediation the developer wanted 10 do some additional Shldics to
get a mer; reliable number. He thought be had a number for environmental remediation in tbc original
sci tha1 was prO\i ded. but that number is subject to change 100. after he gels his study done.
Council Member Clapp asked if they arc looting a! a ~ .:ck for some or this . Mr. Clarlt said they will ask
the dc\'elopcr 10 pnl\idc the best numbers he can . I,( I l\"OUld probably be the end or next 'MIC!<. bccaus,
tl ,cy arc all in Vegas thi s week marlteting the sh<' I' ,g center.
Ms. Clapp said that's righL okay. She said Cour kind of discussed last "-.ck some th ings that previous
de\·elopcrs had kind ofbmugh1 lo the table on pr -.>sals and she wanted 10 do some comparisons.
6. Ms. Clapp said she just wanted to addn :.S Mayor Bums. She said this is not an under currcnL
the;.= things 1ha1 she hal"c been asking re forwcclcs. that she staned asking for some al this
Worman,• as late as March 18th. Mayor Burn,: said he didn 't say an)1hing about this information . Ms.
Clapp said r,i. well that he said he fell like there was an undercurrent going he.-.. She said she just
11anted 10 make ii cicar that she wa nlS 10 mo,-. i,rward with this. but she just , . ...ts this information for
h<r 0"11 satisfaction . Mayor Burns said that's fi ne. that he docs not ha\'e any objection 11 asking for this
infonn·.oon . Ms. Clapp said okay. Iha! she just ·•anted to mak e that clear, ti.rt slic wasn 't sure if that was
1oward' what she \\':\S asking or j ust in gcncral . Mayor Bums sa id no1 al all .
----CllyCwlldl
Ma,6,19'6
... M
Council Member Wluins IIUd Mayor llunll II ii --'blc for Ma. Clapp 10 1111 d!M11 Uld -Mr.
SIJnpoaa Uld gct all lhia imonna1lon f'lam blm oo tllal * IOU up IO dlle, a.'.d &etS all li lied in. MJ .
Clapp aid she be more lbaa lllppy IO do lbal II lbc can do lhaL Mr. Bums laiol ... docs not know why
not . Thal he docs nol know whal lhe normal pn,c:m is.
Council Manbu Wiaglns lllgcslCd lbal wbal Ms. Clapp docs II she bu a pn,blem and aocds 1O know
-cl thi s informa1ion, oiDce be 's budlina i~ lbc mould ao down and ult him tllolo ,pa:illc lhlnp
1hal lhc noecls to know, ~ be t:aD gct ii for her.
Ms. Cls,lp aid lhcjllst doeln'I waDI IO icavt Mr. Cl.u1r. OUI oflhe loop for ono lhing. Mr. Wiggins aid
he 's OU', ofthe loop and he fdl ii doeln'I bother him.
Mayor Bums aid he docs DOI think lhc Cily Mana,tr ouabt IO be completely OUI "'lhc loop, bul Iha! WC
ha,,. a cbaonel for communit:IUOII we've established bd'ore. He aid he lhough1 Lhll can be worked oul
bet,,...,. Mr. Clark and Mr. Simpson ud he does not sa: any problem wilh lhaL
Ms. Clapp says she docs not have a problem doing it tlllt way.
Ms. Habcnichl said she just ,ra111od lo clarify 1h11 heJ undcntanding was 1h11 lhe way lhal Council gets
inf..-ioo is lhal Ibey get oo lhe shon lam liQ. or asli: lhe Cily Maoa&er directly or Cily Atlomey
Broumaa, if il's legal , and lhal's how Ibey access infonnation . She said she thinks 1his is information
Lhal lhey all need.
Council Member Vorminag said Iha! he 1''0Uld like IO sa: a copy or ii.
Council Mcmt,er Hathaway said lhc lhough Ibey apod last ,.u1,, lhal C\'Cl')i>ody should get a copy or
C\'Cl')1hing. lhal 's lhc majo1 rason why Ibey scpal1ICd out lhe two wn term liJts. lhe one thal is
specifically Cinderella Cily and lhe ono lha1 isn 'L Ma)w Bums said he lhought so. Ms. llalhaway said if
yoo get iL and )'Oil don '1 want 10 read iL fine , pul ii in lhe pile and recycle it She said Iha! is lhe way she
looks al iL
Coonc il Member Habenichl olfen:d 1he example 1h11 she put some questions on E-Mai l to Mr. Brotzman
and he suggested thal lhey \\'Cn: questions Iha! she should be really pulling fonh so Iha! all lhe Counci l
can know.
Council Member Ha1haw•y said that she fell Council also agrcod 1h11 anything Iha!""'"' E-Mail would
aim end up on the shon lerm liSI . She said because lhey agrcod awhile back that E-Mail is not lhe
dcfiniti\'c answer, il's a method 10 ask the question. but it's nol the definitive answer, and that it needs 10
be hard copied anyway.
(vi) Council Member Waggoner:
I. He !hanked everyone for lhcir suppon on lhc lobacc:o use producl ordinana:. He said he lhinks i1
is a step in lhe right din:c1ion .
2. COUNCIL MEMBER WAGGONER MOVED, AND IT WAS SECONDED, TO SUPPORT
MAYOR BURNS AND COUNCIL MEMBER HABENICHT'S A."tTENDANCI TO mi:
COLORADO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE.CONFERENCE SCHEDULED FOR VAIL JUN 18m
THROUGH 22 Nll AND SUBSIDIZE THE COST FOR EACH IN THE AMOUNT OF $834 .75.
Discussion ensued rega rdin g cost ofmc.1 1s.
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Council Membff Wlgins llked it-memben DOOd IO p, Ill Ibo caelcn,ncc. Mayor Bumi lllled 11111
Ibey will not -,ily So to Ille iamc ...ions. He aid lie will p, to Ille Cily Allomcy thi111, wblcb Ml.
Habenicht pn,bobly waulcl aat p, to. ec-il Mllttber W-lllted Ibey ru COIIQIITOIII -1<
sessions at moot of the l<minlrl he hu artcnd<d.
Further discussion ensued rcprdlng cost ol rooms.
Ayes: Counc:il Members llldlawlty, Vonnllll&, Habenich~ Wqgoi,.u.
Clipp. Bums
Na)~: Council Member Wigins
Motion carried.
(vii) Council Member Habenicbt:
I. She advised Council will be out of town for Ille ncxl regular council outing. She sald die is
really interested in the Cinderella Ciry clc\'Clopmco~ and she is pleased to hear that Council will nct be
finalil.ing anything until after the public input She Rid she should be back the first or June, that she is
going to her daughter's grwluation .
2. She stated she may net be able to attend Clarian IIUdy session .-in,1. she may be able to attend
part or It. She said she read Council Membcr w._·, quatlons and so she tacked some on henelf
asking that Ibey be forwanlod. She said sloe will be IIIODdina a memorial ,crvicc for someone who is vc,y
dear to her. So she may be late .
Council Member Hathaway asked it .... waulcl like to U\'C the Cily tape the first portion of i~ she said WC
have had that option before. Counc:il Member Habeaiall said yes. Ms. Hatha"-ay asked Executive
Assistant to the Ciry Manager Sue Bradsllaw to IITIDF that
Council Member Hathaway said she would like to sec. rcganling the Clarion meeting tomorrow. the
memo being cirtulated on the Clarion Associates information . Ms. Habenicht says she has it M <.
Habe nic ht said a lot or the copies= bad Md you can't really sec what the pictures look like . She said
she \1-ent in to look at the originals and as she was lcafmg through one she found one that raill y peaked
her interest . She asked Administrative Assistant 0...trudc Welty to copy it for her. She said she looked
back in her packet and her packet did not ha,-e it She said it was reall y interesting , that it is called the
Stanton project in Lakewood dated 1996. and it had• long Slatemcnt in there about big box power retail
and how it was risky and there is a shaltMJUt coming. Ms. Habenicht thought that she would want to
make note or that and make sure C\-Cf)tod)' saw iL She said when she went to look back in the packet
Council did not get that one. She said Council got something called the Scranton proposal which was
done in 1989 in Pennsylvania . She wanted Council to be copied the Stanton proposa l which is more
recent .
Council Member Hathaway said she doesn 't ncca.sarily want to be copied. that she would prefer that it be
made part or the packet that is being passed among Council . She said as long as she has them avai labl e
tomorrow night as they= discussing things with Clarion she will be fine . She sa id all it is doing is
sho,.ing their scope or •:,o ,k which they out laid in the proposal they gave Council already .
3. She thanked Council for supporting her trip to CML . She sai d like Ma yo r Bums said she thinks
it is important . UJI probably a lot of the worl< that we ha,-e been able to do ,.;th RID has been throug:1 a
lot or the connections that the Council has been able to develop through auending those kinds of things .
......... O,c..cll
May 6, '"' ....
She ..,.......i dial uy Olher Council member lhal cu Id._ ..i do -11iq like 11111. that ii iJ
rally I Vllid thins ID do 1111d v. ry -in.tlile.
Mayor Bams aid ya. Iha! Ihm hal been a lac oC con1m...ic:.;,,,, bcl-. tho Olhcr COlllalllitiea that
have hdpod lhe City wilh RTD .
13 . City M--.r•a Report
(a) City Manager Clark rocommendod lhal Council tDOel in executive .-ioo immediately
following lhe meeting to discuss a real CSl.lte ma:tcr and the ral es!ale matter is not CiDdcrclla City.
COllNCU. MEMlf.R HATHAWAY MOVED, AND IT WAS SECOND ED, THAT COUNCIL GO
INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION IMMEDIAilLY FOLLOWING THE COlJNCU. MEETING TO
DISCllSS A REAL ESTA TE MATTER.
Motion carried.
Ayes: Council Membcn Hathaway. Vonninag. Wiqins, Habcnich~
Waggoner, Clapp. Bums
Nay.: None
14. City ANorwc:y'a Report
(a) City Attorney Brottman ·scc1 that cnck,a in Council's packet iJ Anomey DiFalco's
report rogarding Ms. Ostcma 's complaint. He said that doaunclll iJ a publicdoal-. tllal it docs go
through I detail lhnJagh lhe complaint that WIS filed by Ms. Ostcma. He said he -'t go throush piece
by piece oClhat complaint because it is ralhcr dctAiled . ii is nine pases. He SIJlled if anyone in lhe public •
wants a copy they cu have one. He said he thinks lhc COl1dusion is rather importanl. dlll ii did find that
lhcrt MSD 't a lcpl a,nllict involval in this. that there is a political dispulc that should be reaolved ia the
political mna. Mr. Brottman commented that Mr. Difalco did I vcry extensive .......i. pn,ject 1h11 he
thinks came out '"'Y well .
15 . Adjwra-
MAYOR IIURNS MOVED TO ADJOURN . The mcctin1 adjourned 11 10: 12 p.m.
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