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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-10-23 FPB MINUTES• • FIREFIGHTERS PENSION BOARD MEETING October 23 , 1996 A regular meeting of the Englewood Firefighters Pension Board was called to order by Chairperson Bill Young at 4 :13 p .m. in Conference Room A of the Englewood City Hall, 3400 South Elati Street. Members Present: Members Absent: Others Present : Bill Young, Chairperson, Employee Tom Bums, Mayor (arrived 4 :30 p.m.) Mike Gruninger, Employee Representative Frank Gryglewicz, Director of Financial Services Denise Lombardi, Council Appointee Jay Seay, Employee Representative None Don Mazanec, William M . Mercer, Inc . Patrick Landry, William M. Mercer, Inc. Dan Brotzman, City Attorney Carol Wescoat, Recording Secretary A quorum was present. * * * * * Approval ofMinutes MR. GRUNINGER MOVED TO TABLE ACCEPTANCE OF THE MINUTES OF THE REGULAR PENSION BOARD MEETING OF JULY 24, 1996 . MR. SEAY SECONDED . Mr. Gruninger indicated he and Mr. Young would like to listen to the tape of the July 24 , 1996, meeting. Ayes : Nays : Absent : The motion carried . Young, Lombardi, Gruninger, Gryglewicz, Seay None Bums MR. GRUNINGER MOVED TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF THE JOINT PENSION BOARD MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 9, 1996 . MR. SEAY SECONDED . Ayes: Nays : Absent: The motion carried . Young, Lombardi, Gruninger, Gryglewicz, Seay None Bums MR. GRUNINGER MOVED TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF THE SPECIAL MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 9, 1996. MR. LOMBARDI SECONDED. Ayes : Nays: Absent: The motion carried. Young, Lombardi, Gruninger, Gryglewicz, Seay None Bums MR. GRUNINGER MOVED TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF THE VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS MEETING OF SEPTEMBER25, 1996. MR. SEAY SECONDED . Ayes: Nays: Absent : The motion carried. OLD BUSINESS Young, Lombardi, Gruninger, Gryglewicz, Seay None Bums * * * * * Ron Dean 20% Supplemental Disability Ron Dean has provided the appropriate documentation related to his continued eligibility for the 20% Supplemental Disability. Mr. Dean 's benefit payments have been reinstated . Approval and signing of a resolution affiliating the Volunteer Firefighters Plan with the Fire and Police Pension Association The resolution to affiliate the Volunteer Firefighters Plan with the Fire and Police Pension Association was signed by Chairperson Young and Mr. Gruninger. Chairperson Young inquired about penalties from either the Dodge & Cox or the custodial bank . Dodge & Cox had been contacted regarding any necessary notification. Dodge & Cox stated they require only a ten day notification. Both Dodge & Cox and Norwest Bank will be notified of the upcoming change in investment managers . Mr. Gruninger will deliver papers to the Fire and Police Pension Association. Discussion followed regarding the Volunteer Firefighters retiree survey of the proposed change to Fire and Police Pension Association. The results of the survey indicated complete agreement to affiliate with Fire and Police Pension Association .. MR. GRUNINGER MOVED TO APPROVE SIGNING THE FIRE AND POLICE PENSION ASSOCIATION RESOLUTION TO AFFILIATE THE VOLUNTEER Firefighters Pension Board Meeting 2 ' . FIREFIGHTERS PENSION PLAN WITH THE FIRE AND POLICE PENSION ASSOCIATION. MR SEAY SECONDED . Ayes: Nays: Absent: The motion carried. . Young, Lombardi, Gruninger, Gryglewicz, Seay None Bums Discussion followed outlining the necessary actions to affiliate the Paid Firefighters the with the Fire and Police Pension Association. The Paid Firefighter must have City Council approval . The City Council must petition Fire and Police Pension Association for affiliation with the Fire and Police Pension Association. The primary reason for City Council approval is Paid Firefighter Plan affiliation provides a clause that permits each individual participant from either remaining in the current pension plan or electing participation in the Fire and Police Pension Association's Statewide Plan. The participants that elect to affiliate with the Fire and Police Pension Association must be fully funded under the State Plan . The Plan must provide this funding. This could cause the Plan additional expenses to cover complete funding of the participant and the potential expenses for additional benefits. The increased liability is a matter that would be addressed first by the City Council, and possibly the Englewood citizens through an election . Additional discussion clarified the difference in the term "affiliate" as it pertains to both Volunteer Firefighters and Paid Firefighter Pension Plans. Copies of the signed resolution were distributed to the Board members . Mayor Bums arrived 4:30 p.m. Discussion of procedures for determining eligibility for the 20% Supplemental Disability Mr. Gruninger made reference to a City ordinance that he understood had been written that discussed the procedures. Mr. Gruninger has been unable to locate the ordinance. He commented that it was supposed to have been written in October, 1993 . Mr. Brotzman said an ordinance was prepared for the section of Englewood Municipal Code that refers to the 20% Supplemental Disability. The revision pertained only to the source of funding that had been approved by the Board and City Council. Ms. Lombardi commented on the October meeting and the Board's realization of the need for defining the procedures for determining eligibility for the 20% Supplemental Disability. Mr. Gruninger and Mr. Seay outlined their understanding of the original intent of the 20% Supplemental Disability benefit. Mr. Seay further commented on the Board's ability to document procedures for the application of the 20% Supplemental Disability benefit. This would minimize the need for additional discussion when applicants request the 20% Firefighters Pension Board Meeting 3 Supplemental Disability benefit. The guidelines would be clear for both the Board and the applicant and in tern allow expedition of the determination. Mr. Gruninger stated that a previous City Attorney had stated that if the Fire and Police Pension Association determines an individual is disabled and cannot perform the duties of a firefighter, the individual is allowed the benefit. Mr. Gruninger requested that Mr. Brotzman provide clarification. Mr. Brotzman agreed to provide clarification and also commented further that there is a difference between the Fire and Police Pension Association granting a disability and the City of Englewood's granting the 20% Supplemental Disability, which is a total disability. Mr. Brotzman requested the Board provide the procedures needed to determine the proof of eligibility based on the different types of disability. Current procedures for proof are: a statement by the individual that he or she is totally disabled, and present a copy of the tax return indicating no other income from other occupations. Mr. Brotzman inquired if these procedures are sufficient for the Board. Mr. Gruninger responded with an inquiry on the need for additional procedures to fulfill the requirements of the ordinance. Mr. Brotzman stated the requirements of the ordinance are being met, however, it is the fiduciary responsibility of the Board to insure that funds are being properly administered . Discussion ensued relating to the events that occurred at the October Board meeting pertaining to Mr. Hoover 's request for the 20% Supplemental Disability. Chairperson Young commented on the restriction placed on Mr. Hoover that prohibited his return to duties as a firefighter and caused the Fire and Police Pension Association to grant the occupational disability. Chairperson Young brought forth the question that if a firefighter is unable to return to duty as a firefighter, does it make him totally disabled? If the employer is not willing to accept the conditions or restrictions of the firefighter to return to work, is the firefighter totally disabled? Mr. Gruninger referred the procedures for determining eligibility that was required of 20% Supplemental Disability recipient, Dave Wells . Mr. Wells had a form completed each year by his physician, and a form he completed which included a statement of total disability . Mr. Gryglewicz suggested rewriting the section of the Englewood Municipal Code. If the Board is to accept the occupational disability as total and permanent disability, the verbiage should be in the ordinance. Mr. Brotzman stated that may be an alternative, but that is different from clarifying the procedures for determining eligibility. Mr. Brotzman reiterated the difference between an occupational and a total disability. Mr. Gryglewicz stated that albeit different , if an individual with an occupational disability requested the benefit, the Board would be adhering to the Englewood Municipal Code in granting the 20% Supplemental Disability. Mr. Brotzman stated there is no procedural difference, however, the discussion has changed from a policy for the applicant to make a statement of total disability, which is in accordance to current Englewood Municipal Code verses occupational disability . The Board must request that City Council change the ordinance to include occupationally disabled. Firefighters Pension Board Meeting 4 Mr. Gruninger inquired of the potential of altering t he ordinance to include disability determination by Fire and Police Pension Association of either occupational or total disability, the individual will be entitled to the 20% Supplemental Disability so long as they are unable to have earned income. Mr. Brotzman responded that this would be a mix and match. Fire and Police Pension Association determines if they are occupationally disabled, this is not a physician 's statement that the individual is totally disabled. Discussion followed Fire and Police Pension Association 's difference between occupational and total disability. Mr. Brotzman clarified Mr. G runinger' s request to make the two different disabilities the same and use t hat language in Englewood Municipal Code. Mr. Gruninger affirmed. Mr. Brotzman stated that ifthe Board approves that procedure there is no need for a policy. Mr. Brotzman referred to Mr. Hoover's case which Fire and Police Pension Association stated that Mr. Hoover was occupationally disabled and the requirements for the 20% Supplemental Disability was higher standard to be met. If Fire and Police Pension Association has a definition of proof t o meet the higher standard of total disability, use their definition as proof the individual has met the City of Englewood 's higher standard and t he individual is eligible for the 20% Supplemental Disability. Mr. Gryglewicz clarified it as a definition for a total disability . Mr. Gruninger added as definition of any disability. Mr. Brotzman inquired about Fire and Police Pension Association categories of disability. Mr. Gruninger responded that the Fire and Police Pension Association has two separate categories of disability, occupational and total disability, however, when the ordinance was written, there was only one category. He further stated t hat both definit ions of di sabi lity should be used in determining eligibility for the 20% Supplemental Disability. The individual would be eligible to receive the benefit until, by retraining or education to perform another profession and that was his interpretation of the ordinance . Mr. Gryglewicz disagreed with t he interpretation. He felt the intent of the benefit was to provide for individuals who were unable to work now or in the future because of the disability . Whereas, an occupational disability provides that, although unable to be a firefighter, the individual could perform other professions. Mr. Gruninger presented a scenario where an individual , although totally disabled , was educated to operated a computer and work at a home occupation, earned a minimal income, would no longer be entitled to the benefit causing the Board to rescind the benefit. Chairperson Young stated that because of all the rewrites of the ordinance, the original intent of the benefit has been lost. His concern was the Board's discussions did not follow the original intent of the benefit. Mr. Seay commented on his concerns with the Fire and Police Pension Association 's occupational and total disability's definitions . The occupational disability allows three or five years of annual physician evaluations that permits an individual the ability to rehabilitate and return to their former position or become totally disabled . Firefighters Pension Board Meeting 5 Mr. Gruninger commented on Ron Dean's occupational disability. Fire and Police Pension Association granted the occupational disability with no return to work because he is not able to be rehabilitated. Mr. Seay stated the procedure followed in recent years has been that occupational disabilities have been granted 20% Supplemental Disability benefit until such time they became reemployed or rehabilitated themselves to earn income . The benefit was discontinued upon earning income. The Board did not discriminate between occupational and total disabilities. Mr. Seay also stated that the Board's position has been, even though you were granted a total disability, the benefit is discontinued upon your earning income. Mr. Gruninger agreed, however, he commented on the Board's motion to no longer require annual tax returns from Jim Mc Curdy. Mr. Seay recalled the motion, and further commented on what the Board's policy had been, if the individual rehabilitated themselves, and if on their income tax returns showed income of one dollar, the benefits ceased. He does not think it is possible to go back and change the policy again . Mr. Gruninger said he did not say to change the policy, but make the ordinance fit Mr. Seay ' s statement. Mr. Brotzman interjected that Mr. Seay and Mr. Gruninger were speaking of totally different ideologies and methods on the subject. One is a physician's statement of total disability because of the type of injury. Part of the discussion included a physician's statement of total disability precludes the Board's determination . If the policy is changed to this format, the Board has completed its determination upon receiving the physician's statement. Two weeks later he could be earning an income, but because of the total disability statement he continues to automatically receive the benefit. The other way to do this is to say, the benefit is for those unable to earn an income . Although not medically related to the injury, the benefit is for those unable to earn an income . Currently, the Board is not concerned with the type of disability as long as the individual does not earn any income and states to the Board that he or she is totally disabled. If at this point the Board makes a shift to a physician's type philosophy, you should recommend City Council make the change through an ordinance. Mr. Gruninger stated that the original intent of the benefit was to provide a benefit to those who are not able to work as a firefighter or able to earn income from anywhere else . The Fire and Police Pension Association did not exist when the original benefit was written . Subsequent to the formation of Fire and Police Pension Association, the State now mandates two forms of disability, occupational and total. Mr. Gruninger ' s opinion is , that if the Fire and Police Pension Association determines a firefighter is disabled , whether it is an occupational or total disability, the firefighter is unable to earn any income, and does not earn any income, the firefighter is eligible for this benefit. The first time the firefighter earns any income, they are no longer eligible for the benefit. Mr. Gryglewicz suggested following the Fire and Police Pension Association definition for total disability and reduce the 20% Supplemental Disability by earnings. He feels that the benefit is a disincentive for any one with an occupational disability to ever work again . Firefighters Pension Board Meeting 6 Ms. Lombardi stated t hat her interpretation of the term occupational disability, meant that the individual was not able to be a firefighter. She also added that the 20% Supplemental Disability was only for the period of time t hat the recipient was able to get back on their feet in another occupation. Whether it is three, six, or however many months . Total disability means that the firefighter can not work at all, period, in any occupation. Her interpretation of occupational disability, is only for the hazard of the job. The individual cannot be a firefighter or paramedic, so until he or she is on their feet again, and is able to pursue another occupation or income, the Board should provide a limit to the number of years the benefit will be provided to insure that recipient is following through with better health. Ms. Lombardi is confused with the statement, that both the occupation and total disability will continue receiving the benefit forever. Discussion ensued relating to the limits of the benefit, either attaining normal retirement age or earning income. Mayor Bums inquired if the original intent of the benefit was to assist the individual with training for another occupation. Mr. Seay recalled t he original purpose was to, increase the benefit for t he firefighters to be comparable to nonemergency personal. The compromise was the added 20% Supplemental Disability . Further discussion reviewed the changes in funding t he benefit. Mayor Bums questioned the ability to clarify the ordinance. Mr. Brotzman stated that the ordinance can be clarified. A proposal needs to be made to City Council specifying the requirements for eligibility of the benefit. He commented that the Board's eligibility discussion is a little like apples and oranges . One is Fire and Police Pension Association 's medical classification with two levels of medical classification, occupational and total . There is another phase to this that the Board has always considered. It is not t he medical side, but the economic side . The Board is able to combine the two phases. They can request a finding that the individual is medically disabled by Fire and Police Pension Association or their own physician , or whatever. This would be a medical. They are occupational and they have no income . He thinks that the argument on occupational verses total. T his would combine the two different pieces of the economic philosophy and medical p hi losophy t ogether. If the phases are not combined , the Board will probably need a higher medical standard . The only criteria to be ·eligible for the 20% Supplemental Disability would be that Fire and Police Pension Association finds the individual totally disabled . It is the Board's decision as to what is proposed to City Council as a criteria for changing the ordinance. Mr. Seay questioned the ability to change the ordinance to total at this point if past practices have not been total. Mr. Gruninger stated that it was unnecessary . The Board may make a motion to request City Council rewrite the ordinance with two stipulations . If t he Fire and Police Pension Association determines a total disability, the individual is eligible for the benefit. If t he Fire and Police Pension Association determines an occupational disability, the individual is entitled to the benefit until they are either retrained , employed, or back t o work. Mr. Seay inquired if t hat is not what they were doing currently. Mr. Gruninger stated it needs to be in writing . Firefighters Pension Board Meeting 7 Mr. Brotzman stated that the Englewood Municipal Code provision does not match what the Fire and Police Pension Association does. He suggested making the code language match the Fire and Police Pension Association language, and then there can be other criteria. He further defined some of the options available as other criteria as previously discussed and include an option of considering an incentive for training if the individual has an occupational disability. Ms. Lombardi inquired if the Fire and Police Pension Association has a limit for the number of months on occupational disability. The Fire and Police Pension Association's guidelines for termination are: "Occupational disabilities may be terminated if based on a period medical exams you are declared to be no longer disabled, but refuse to accept a job in your former department in a position you held prior to your disability or in a position of equal base pay. If you are declared no longer disabled by FPPA Board based upon the review by a three physician panel your employer must offer within five years of your retirement for the disability, the first positional available meeting the salary and rank stipulation. If no such job exists, or your former employer refuses to offer such a position, your benefit would continue." Mr. Gruninger referred to past experiences of the occupation disability indicating that the benefit does not cease. Mayor Bums inquired about reexaminations . The Fire and Police Pension Association will do reexaminations based upon the injury, for the first five years . No examinations are required after five years . Mr. Gruninger stated Bob Hoover was given an occupational disability with re-examinations yearly. If two of the physicians find Mr. Hoover physically able to return to work, they tell the City. If the City has a position for him, they will offer him the position of pay . IfMr. Hoover refuses it , he no longer receives the occupational disability benefit. If the City does not have a position for him , they have five years to put him in a job . If the City does not place Mr. Hoover in a job, he continues disability forever. Mr. Gruninger explained that the disability benefit has a four to one offset . If the disability retiree received other income, Fire and Police Pension Association, withholds a dollar for every four the retiree earns. The disability retiree may request that Fire and Police Pension Association discontinue the benefit at anytime, until the retiree requests the benefit be reinstated. Mr. Brotzman inquired if the Board would like a draft of the ordinance proposal. Chairperson Young commented that if the Board proceeds with the proposal, it will also venture into the more sensitive issue of funding the benefit. Chairperson Young reviewed that changes of funding for the benefit. Mr. Gryglewicz stated that funding was done through the Safety Services Fire division budget. Chairperson Young referred to the payment of the 20% Supplemental Disability benefit by a check from the pension fund as was discussed in a previous board meeting. Mr. Gruninger stated the way the payments are currently processed is the reverse of what was told to the Board by the City Attorney at the time of the board meeting. Mr. Gryglewicz clarified the journal entries that are currently being done to document the necessary transactions tracking the source of funding for Blanchard and Hoover from the Health Self Insurance Fund. Firefighters Pension Board Meeting 8 Mr. Gruninger stated the pension board is paying all the current recipients of the 20% Supplemental Disability benefit, then the Health Self Insurance Fund reimburses the pension funds, but before that is done, the Safety Services budget must pay out of the general fund to the Health Self Insurance Fund for Blanchard and Hoover. He further stated that Mr. DeWitt had told the Board that it was not legal to pay the benefit out of the pension funds. Mr. Brotzman concurred that the payments should come from the right fund. Mr. Gryglewicz will review the transaction process and respond to the Board. Ms. Lombardi requested an amount of the liability of the 20% Supplemental Disability benefit, because she is still concerned with difference between total and occupational and t hat the occupational could continue until normal retirement age . She would like t o see more information about the funds necessary for the benefit. It may be possible that there needs to be a policy change. Chairperson Young stated one purpose in going to the Health Self Insurance Fund was to eliminate the need for the City to address the unfunded liability . With funding the benefit through the Health Self Insurance Fund, and funding as needed , would not require a reserve funding with current dollars . Now that Blanchard and Hoover are receiving benefit it has become a cost item . Mr. Gryglewicz commented that the Benefit Administrator is working with £tn actuary to obtain liability figures . The process has not been completed. Ms. Lombardi would like more information on the benefit account, including limitation of benefits, and additional research from the economic aspects . She requested the item be brought back at the next meeting as an item for discussion . Chairperson Young stated that he will be very protective of what the Board does, because of his feelings towards this benefit. Mr. Brotzman commented that in theory what the Board is doing is bringing criteria back on practices that you already performed. It is clarifying what the Bbard's current procedures . Discussion continued on an ordinance to clarify the benefit, remove some of the emotion involved with approving the benefit, and end the repetitive discussion of the benefit eligibility . Discussion of plan document changes . Mr. Gryglewicz distributed a synopsis of the changes in the draft of the proposed plan document. Chairperson Young commented on item nine which referred to the President's or Chairperson's person be for tenure. Mr. Brotzman recommended the Board not make Firefighters Pension Board Meeting 9 a position for tenure. The Board agreed to remove the item from the proposed change list. Discussion followed cost consideration of the proposed increased benefits for retirees, the City Council involvement, or possible ballot question. The Board outlined the items that will need to requested of the actuary to provide proposed plan actual costs. The costs are related to the increased benefit which is to be for firefighters retiring after the effective date of the proposed plan document, and would not include increased benefits or cost of living increases for the previously retired firefighters. Mr. Gryglewicz reviewed several possible ballot questions related to the increase in long term debt. He also commented on the restrictive language necessary for ballot questions and the voters' inability to understand the questions because of the necessary language. Discussion followed on the other items on the synopsis of the proposed plan changes, changes in terminology, and the estimated date of the William M. Mercer, Inc., will return the draft plan proposal. Mr. Brotzman will research the possibility of changing all verbiage and employee titles to coincide with the Colorado State Statutes. NEW BUSINESS Colorado Public Pension Conference Ms. Wescoat reviewed the information presented at the Colorado Public Pension Conference that will affect the Firefighters Pension. * * * * * MEMBERS CHOICE Chairperson Young inquired about the status of City funds being used to reduce the Plan's unfunded liabilify . Mr. Gryglewicz explained that there had been discussion of using some of the City's reserve funds. There has been no action at this point and probably no action will be taken until final plans are completed for the Cinderella City property. MR. SEAY MOVED TO ADJOURN. MR. GRUNINGER SECONDED. Ayes: Nays: Absent: Young, Bums, Gruninger, Gryglewicz, Lombardi, Seay None None Firefighters Pension Board Meeting 10 Meeting adjourned at 6:03 p.m. Carol Wescoat Recording Secretary Firefighters Pension Board Meeting 11