HomeMy WebLinkAbout1997-11-11 PLB MINUTES3400 South Elati Street, Englewood, CO 80110
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Minutes
Englewood Public Library Board
November 11, 1997
Call To Order/Roll Call
The meeting of the Englewood Public Library Board was called to order by Chairperson, Mary Dounay
at 7:02 p.m.
PRESENT: M. Dounay, M . Giffin , R. Greiner, A. Leonard, S. O'Leary, S. Smithers , B. Williams,
Youth Member, Summer Witt , Youth Member, Mike Heberling and Council Member, A. Habenicht.
REGRETS: M. Schwindt and S. Ostema.
ALSO PRESENT: Hank Long, Library Director, and Joan Clayton, Recording Secretary .
Members of the public who signed up to speak to the Library Board:
Robin Ottoson 4860 S. Pearl, Englewood
Debby Pool 1431 E. Cornell Ave., Englewood e Kathy Christie 4520 S. Lipan Ct., Englewood
Colleen Burke 3594 S. Bannock, Englewood
Ray Tomasso 2998 S. Bannock, Englewood
Lauri Clapp 4500 S. Sherman, Englewood
Ida May Nicholl 4740 S. Lipan , Englewood
Barbara Burget 658 W. Valleyview Ave., Littleton
Ann Nabholz 2990 S. Delaware, Englewood
Virginia Smith 3165 S. Sherman, Englewood
Ms . Dounay began the meeting by giving those in the audience a brief overview of the Internet; how it
came to be in the Library; the process by which the Library Board decided to have the terminals split (2
terminals in the children 's area, filtered, and the remaining 6 terminals in the adult, unfiltered). Ms.
Dounay shared with those present that Ms. Pat Jurgens, Automated Services Librarian , had conducted a
brief demonstration for the Board prior to the Internet being open to the public. During the
demonstration Ms. Jurgens had shown the Board members who were present how easy it was to gain
access to the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and information on traveling to Tahiti. She also
demonstrated how pornography could be accessed. After much discussion it was decided to not put into
place a written policy until the Supreme had an opportunity to rule on the Communications Decency Act
but instead to institute practices to be evaluated by staff while both staff and the public got used to using
the Internet. The public perception has been that there are no rules or policy governing the Internet.
A After careful evaluation Cyber Patrol was chosen as the best available filtering system for the needs of
W the Library. In January and February, the first 2 months the terminals were installed there were 6 - 8
incidents of "inappropriate" materials brought up on the screens, mostly by young male patrons. When
these teens were asked to leave the objectionable sites they did. A shared printer for the 8 terminals
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was moved behind the Circulation desk, necessitating the public to ask staff for their printouts. Staff felt
that this has helped to keep objectionable materials from being printed.
In September Mr. Phil Gilliam came to speak to the Library Board, after first contacting Councilperson
Clapp. Since that time several articles appeared in the Denver Post and Rocky Mountain News about the
Internet and the availability of pornography to the public. Ms. Clapp proposed to City Council a parental
control policy to be used by the Library. This generated public comments by 15 -20 citizens at a City
Council Meeting in October. At this meeting Council gave the Library Board 30 days to arrive at a
policy to put into place. Ms. Dounay shared her experience of talking to 2 students who were on the
Internet. She asked them about inappropriate sites. Both students said , "Do you know what those ladies
at the desk would do to us? No way." On Thursday, November 6 the Library Board held a special
meeting to draft a policy which reflects the practices currently in place, along with a Fact Sheet prepared
by the staff.
Ms. Dounay invited those in the audience who wished to speak to the proposed policy to do so.
• Robin Ottoson of 4860 S . Pearl St., Englewood was first to speak. Ms. Ottoson said she has lived in
Englewood for 10 V2 yrs., and in Colorado for 18 yrs. She has been in the library profession for 19
yrs . Her library experience is with Denver University and Denver Seminary . She said she is proudest
of being a mother and as a mother will do everything she can to protect her children from evil. Ms .
Ottoson said she is agreement with the Englewood Public library 's policy as it currently is. She
stated that no where else has she seen such a responsive Library Board as there is at EPL. The
proximity of monitoring is very unusual and as such she feels the Board has taken a very reasonable
stand. It is up to the parents to parent their own children ; if this isn 't enough then as parents they
should be there with the child as you would with TV viewing , church, etc. Parents need to be "on
site" with their children. Responsibility for children can't be handed off to government or others . She
further said that she agreed with the October 25 article in the Englewood Herald, especially that
parents need to parent. The Library has been trouble free for the past 9 months of having Internet
access and she feels the Library should be given an A plus for having no problems. Ms. Ottoson
stated that she felt that the present policy was a reasonable approach.
• Debby Pool of 1431 E. Cornell Ave., Englewood spoke next. Ms . Pool said she has been a resident
for over 30 years; she is a past School Board member. She expressed high praise for the Board for
their acquisition of the Internet and their open access. She said that the Internet is an amazing tool
and has much potential for learning. However she said her ears perked up when she heard that there
was discussion of limiting access. She felt that the Board is wise not to use filters on the terminals.
Filters can filter out the bad but they also filter out some good. Bad things will always be there. She
said she feels that filters give a false sense of security. Parental permission slips would also limit
access. The reality is that all minors would not get permission slips and good kids could be punished.
It would also create a lot of extra work for the staff, taking time away from reference help and to
what purpose? Ms. Pool said she had always advocated raising children to be thoughtful,
independent and responsible. She feels that EPL is helping do this with the present practices. By
continuing to monitor the situation a climate of responsibility is created. She encouraged the Board
to stay the path.
• Kathy Christie of 4520 S . Lipan Ct., Englewood was the next speaker. Ms . Christie said she is a
present member of the School Board but was present tonight as a parent and resident. As a parent she
said she would be miffed if she had to go to the Recreation Center with her child to obtain and sign a
permission slip for use at the Library. She said she would encourage the Board to address the
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concerns of the community. She said she felt this was being done with the visual contact by the staff,
and she would encourage further follow up. Ms . Christie said she supports putting children in the
least restrictive arena. Her feeling is that responsibility rests with the Internet user not only the
parent. Don't presuppose that someone will do something wrong, be it a child or an adult. Parents
should be a "back -up. Ms. Christie shared a vivid memory of her childhood. As a child she was an
avid reader who quickly went through available books in the children's area of her childhood library.
When she went to check out material from the adult section the librarian question if she were "old
enough".
Colleen Burke of 3594 S. Bannock, Englewood. Ms . Burke said that she didn't feel that the number
of incidents of problems warranted the pulling of the Internet terminals , or the installing of filters in
all terminals. Ms. Burke said while she applauds Ms. Clapp's effort to make parents more aware of
what is available on the Internet she didn't think making parents sign a permission slip made them
aware . Ms . Burke's suggestion would be to have signs at the terminals and at the sign up sheet to use
the terminals noting that the use of the Internet to access pornography is not tolerated at EPL. Ms .
Burke further stated that she was not in favor of filters for all terminals.
Ray Tomasso of 2998 S. Bannock, Englewood. Mr. Tomasso was present to read a letter from his
wife, Carole who could not attend the meeting this evening. Ms. Tomasso favored stronger control
on the terminals to prevent kids from accessing pornography .
Lauri Clapp of 4500 S. Sherman, Englewood. Ms. Clapp said she was speaking as a concerned
parent. She is concerned with the ability to parent her own child. She felt that it is up to her to decide
what is good for her child. Ms. Clapp feels this issue is not about numbers or if there is a problem or
not. But that there is a problem out there of easily available inappropriate material. There are
problems in Loudon County Virginia regarding Internet policy. She feels there may be a problem
with the policy currently in place at EPL. The staff may be being sexually harassed by having to
monitor the terminals . Ms. Clapp thanked the Board for their time.
Ida May Nichol of 4740 S. Lipan , Englewood . Ms. Nichol thanked the Board for providing an
opportunity for the public to speak to them. She said she had attended the recent study session of the
Board at which time a survey was mentioned as having been done by several of the Board members.
She said she felt that the survey could be flawed as it was only given to the patrons using the
terminals. There is a lot of information that could be gained from a survey . A poll was done in June
of 1997 where 94% of the respondents supported a ban on pornography, which means filters. Ms.
Nichol wanted to thank Sandi Ostema for presenting another view to the Board. Ms. Nichol said she
had asked Ms. Clapp to contact Family Friendly Libraries for information for City Council, the
Library Board and staff. Her feeling is that policing the Internet should be automatic and
technologically available . As a concerned tax payer she said she feels there is much information so
all view points can be heard. She feels that free access is a privilege not a right. Tax payers are not
obligated to provide this service . Ms . Nichol thanked Ms. Clapp for her work and said she wanted to
highly commend her for the time she had taken with regard to this issue. Child pornography is
illegal. She went on to say that blocking of pornography is constitutional. She would also like to see
filters with regard to E-Mail and chat rooms .
Barbara Burget of 658 W . Valleyview Ave., Littleton spoke next. Ms. Burget related a story about a
mother and daughter who disagreed about the daughter being allowed to go to a meeting. The mother
told the daughter she could not go. The daughter was very upset. This was a smart mother said Ms .
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Burget and the mother got out some jello to mix up. She asked her daughter to pick out some
garbage and put it in the jello. They put the jello in the refrigerator. At dinner time the mother asked
the daughter to get the jello. The daughter said you can 't eat that jello, not with the garbage in it. The
mother told her to sort out the garbage. The jello could not be served after the garbage was taken out
as it would not stay together. Ms . Burget said she feels that the Internet needs filters. She said she
once saw a dirty movie. She said that as an adult she had a very difficult time getting the images out
of her mind. If children are exposed to filth, how long must it take them to free their minds of the
filth? Ms. Burget said she felt that families need help from the community.
• Betty Acker of 3140 S. Delaware, Englewood was next. Ms. Acker said she was interested in the
Internet because s he felt it had taken over the life of some people. There is an American Civil
Liberties Union suit in California over the filtering of information on the Internet. She said that you
can consider anything in a suit. Ms. Acker said she felt that if filters were not going to be used then
the terminals should be arranged in a semi-circle so they can be seen by the reference staff. She said
she feels that the way the terminals are presently set up they can 't be seen by staff. She feels that
children are looking to adults to lead them.
• Ann Naboltz of 2990 S. Delaware, Englewood spoke next. Ms. Naboltz said she supports the hard
work the Board has done on arriving at a policy. Her question is who did the survey and who
endorsed the survey. Ms. Naboltz said that as an accountable parent she is looking for a written
policy as a safeguard for children. She would encourage the Board to come up with a written policy
governing the Internet use.
• Virginia Smith of 3165 S. Sherman, Englewood was the last speaker. Ms. Smith said she has lived in
Englewood over 50 years . When she graduated from school in 1952, there were restrictions and she
didn't think they hurt anyone. She said she knew her teachers cared about her. Kids today haven 't
improved without restrictions . Kids need and want restrictions. Ms. Smith said she had been at the
recent Library Board study session where it had been said a survey had been done. Ms. Smith said
that the survey would have been better done by a professional. If there are laws regarding
pornography then they should be used universally. As a tax payer, Ms. Smith feels that no where in
the library should there be access to pornography.
• A letter was read into the Minutes from Marilyn Brenengen of 3028 S . Emerson Way, Englewood.
(see attached).
Ms. Dounay began the regular meeting of the Public Library Board at 8:05 p .m.
97 -34 Motio n: That the minutes of the meeting of October 14 , 1997 and the special meeting of
November 6, 1997 be tabled until the December 9, 1997 meeting.
Moved by: Margaret Giffin
Seconded by: Ame Leonard
The Motion passed unanimously.
Ms . Smithers reported that the Friends of the Library had realized a profit of $606 at their Bake Sale
over the Halloween weekend. All of the money will go toward Children 's Services. The Board thanked
the Friends for their efforts.
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There was no report for the Book Discussion Group.
-Ms. Dounay reported for the Save the Bookmobile Committee. Volunteers and substitute workers are
needed for the Bookmobile. Volunteers help children find books on the Bookmobile as well as shelve
books and help check in items that are returned. Without these volunteers the program could not
continue.
Ms. Leonard reiterated that she could no longer continue as the liaison to the Cultural Arts Commission.
Ms. O'Leary asked for specifics on when the meetings are held, how long they last , etc. Ms. Habenicht
shared information concerning the Cultural Arts Commission. The Commission has been working with a
facilitator for the past 3 - 6 months to work through by-laws for the commission and to set goals. The
Commission is spearheading a committee to begin planning the 100 year celebration for the City .
Discussion followed. Ms. Dounay mentioned that Austin Gomes, who for the past 2 years has headed
the Parade Committee, is stepping down and a replacement is needed.
Comments were made that despite the closure for the month of August, the statistics for the year look
favorable. The Bookmobile statistics have been affected by the closure and the temporary loss of the
regular driver due to illness. A question was asked by Ms. Williams concerning the computer numbers
decline. Mr. Long explained this was due to the new Windows environment, and the use could no longer
be automatically counted in the same way. Those present indicated they would then like the statistic
dropped from the monthly report for both reference and circulation figures. If a way to count use
becomes available then these figures will be tracked once again on a monthly basis.
e There were no comments regarding the Library Board Financial report.
Ms . Greiner asked about the planning for the volunteer recognition in January, 1998. Ms. Witt said she
would like to be on the committee. Mr. Long will find a meeting date for the planning committee and
contact them to work on plans for the ceremony.
New Business
Mr. Long provided updated information from an informal survey he had done of public libraries in the
state regarding their Internet connections, e.g. how sign up for use is handled and if their terminals are
filtered or unfiltered. Seventeen replies were received. No filters or permission slips are used by any of
the 17 libraries who replied.
Ms. Betty Acker asked a question as to why filters were put on the children's terminals and there were
no problems, then why a problem on the others. Ms . Dounay responded that adult materials are not put
in the juvenile area and by putting filters on the children's terminals it was a way to make the terminals
more age appropriate.
It was stated that no one on the Library Board feels the Internet should be used for pornography.
Ms. Dounay asked when City Council expects a response from the Library Board as to a definite policy .
Ms. Habenicht responded that there seemed to be a sense of urgency . Ms. Habenicht went on to explain
A to the audience that her role on the Library Board is as a non-voting member. She is present to act as a
• liaison from the Board to City Council and vice versa. Ms. Habenicht went on to say that if the Board
felt that the 30 day time line would not work, then they needed to let Council know. Ms. Habenicht said
it was her understanding that Ms. Clapp was shooting for a 30 day time frame, but if the Board needed
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more time she felt that the time could be extended. There seemed to be more information coming
available for the Board to consider prior to making a firm decision. Ms. Clapp indicated she had
handouts for the Board that had just become available to her.
Ms. Habenicht said her personal opinion was that there was a sense of need to make a thoughtful and
careful decision , not just making a decision just to have a decision made. She went on to apologize for
confusing the issue of whether there was in fact a policy in place governing the Internet. Ms. Habenicht
had used the words policy instead of practice when asked by others if there was a policy in place. When
staff was queried they had indicated, correctly, that there was no policy in place governing the Internet's
use.
Ms . Clapp said she felt that there are legal issues which need to be addressed regarding the Internet 's
use, both by the public and staff. She indicated that she had just been made aware of a conference in
Washington, D.C. scheduled for December 1 - 3 concerning the Internet and children. She has asked
City Council to send herself and a member of the legal department of the City. She also said she felt it
would be beneficial for a Library Board member and staff member to also attend. The conference
suggests that the areas to be considered are technical, legal and educational. The American Library
Association is one of the co-sponsors of the conference. Discussion followed as to who should attend the
conference. Ms. Giffin, as Board vice-chair indicated she would be willing to go to represent the Board.
Mr. Long was suggested as the staff person to go. Costs were discussed . The Library Board budget is not
sufficient to cover the costs for Ms. Giffin . Mr. Long will explore the possibility of the Library budget
and or City budgetary funds paying for he and Ms . Giffin to attend.
97 35 Motion: That if the money can be found to cover the cost of sending a member of the Library
Board to the Washington , D.C. conference on the Internet, that Margaret Giffin go to represent the
Library Board.
Moved by: Sonie Smithers
Seconded by: Bervette Williams
The Motion passed with 7 ayes.
Ms. Smithers brought up for discussion signs to be used to alert the public to Internet rules of behavior.
She said she felt these signs needed to be more obvious and visible. Discussion followed.
97 36 Motion: That the Board approve the proposed policy on Public Internet Service as an interim
policy with new signage to be placed by the Internet terminals.
Moved by: Margaret Giffin
Seconded by: Shannon O'Leary
The Motion passed with 6 ayes , 1 Abstained.
The Board next discussed the Internet Fact sheet and where to make this fact sheet available . It was
mentioned by Ms. Williams that this fact sheet needed to be made available to educate the public within
the library. If and when policy changes then the fact sheet can also be amended .
97 37 Motion : That the Internet Fact Sheet be made available in the Library and the Bookmobile as
soon as possible.
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Moved by : Ame Leonard e Seconded by: Ruth Greiner
The Motion passed unanimously
Next under discussion was filters for the Internet terminals. Points addressed were how information is
blocked, whether site specific or word specific; whether Information Services department can provide
the filters, given current staffing levels; and the problems that filters can create in other software.
In the packet for the December meeting Mr. Long will include the proposed policy on Request for
Reconsideration.
Mr. Long will be going to City Council on Monday, November 17 to ask for approval for the Food For
Fines program. This will be the 8th year the Englewood Library has done this worthwhile program which
benefits those in the community given aid by Interfaith Task Force. If the program is approved, it will
run for 5 weeks November 18 -December 19. Ms.Leonard asked that fliers be sent to the schools
advertising the program. Ms . Dounay suggested that the Library ask the principals of each of the
elementary schools to make an announcement regarding the program.
97 38 Motion: That the Library Board support the Food For Fines Program as to be presented to City
Council by Mr. Long on Monday, November 17, 1997.
Moved by: Bervette Williams
Seconded by: Sonie Smithers e The Motion passed unanimously
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Members' Choice
Ms. Habenicht said how excited she is about the new City Manager, Gary Sears. She also welcomed the
new City Council Members and said she looks forward to working with them .
Ms. Giffin said she had recently attended a CEMA (Colorado Education and Media Association)
convention. She had done a presentation which was well received. The convention was a good one.
Ms. O'Leary said she is looking forward to the next Leadership Englewood program, scheduled for
Thursday, December 11.
Ms. Witt said she is feeling the burden of not having a job with the holidays coming.
Ms. Williams said she is looking forward to the Littleton Symphony concert in December.
Ms. Dounay said she and Ms. Giffin had been invited to attend a reception to meet City Manager, Gary
Sears on Friday , November 14 at the Malley Center. She also encouraged those present to go to the
Flood Middle School celebration on Friday, November 14.
There being no further business the meeting was adjourned at 9:08 p.m.
12/97jc
November 11, 1997
Mary Dounay, President
Englewood Public Library Board
3400 S. Elati
Englewood, CO 8011 0
Dear Mary and members of the Library Board ,
This is a letter of support for the efforts the Englewood Public
Library Board has made to carefully evaluate and reevaluate the
Internet Practices and Policies at the Englewood Public Library. As
a former board member and board chair , I am fully aware of the
careful thought that goes into making such serious decisions.
I also make comments as a parent of two early adolescent
girls. I feel strongly that it is my job as a parent to prepare my
daughters to leave home and lead independent lives by the time they
reach the age of majority. During that process of preparation, they
are and will be faced every day with information, situations, and
observations that are unpleasant, unsavory, and negative. They see
and hear "bad" news daily from TV, print media, and life in general.
They've had young friends and family die. They've had many
unpleasant experiences in their short lives. They've also had many
pleasant experiences. They've also had very loving, careful nurturing
and guidance from their father and from me.
I feel it is my job as their mother to help them through those
unpleasant, unsavory, and negative experiences by talking them
through those experiences, not trying to shield them from what
actually happens in life; that includes events and experiences at the
Englewood Public Library. It is MY job to decide what is or is not
appropriate for my children to read in books or magazines, see in
videotapes or read or see on the Internet. I do not believe it is the
library staff's responsibility to censor materials for my children or
for that fact, for me. It is impossible and totally unrealistic to
believe that we can shield our children or ourselves from the "bad"
things in the world.
When my ten-year old and I got on the Internet at filtered
computers at the library to look up information on Chinese Art we
came across material that to some would be "offensive". Though the
computer had filters, I acted as an additional filter to shield her
from some of the information as well as discuss what we were
finding. It is MY job to handle the information we might come across
on the Internet, the TV news, the newspapers, at school, in the
community, not the staff of the library.
My daughters do live by guidelines and when they use our
computer at home they know very clearly what the rules are
regarding usage. We have many discussions regarding what is and is
not appropriate from our family's viewpoint.
I believe the staff of the library and the Englewood Public Library
Board has done an admirable job of trying to meet the needs of as
many people as possible and not offend anyone. There are practices
and policies which you have used and evaluated that have provided a
"standard of acceptable behavior" for the patrons using the Internet
terminals which seem to be working well. "If it ain't broke, don't
fix it!"
Keep up the good work and thank you to the. Board for allowing
me to be the parent to my own children and not placing that burden
on the library staff.
Sincerely,
Marilyn Brenengen
cc: Members of the Englewood Public Library Board
Hank Long, Director