HomeMy WebLinkAbout1972-09-26 PZC MINUTESI
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Page 1475
Mr. Brown suggested that maybe the City could buy this land of Mr. Brinkhoff 's for open
space. Mr. Carlson interposed that there wasn't enough land to do any good. Mrs. Henning
concurred with Mr .. Brown's suggestion, and stated that it could be developed with a green-
belt. Further discussion followed. Mrs. Romans noted that the R-3-B Zone District permits
professional type office buildings in addition to multi-family units.
Mr. Lentsch stated that there will be a special meeting on September 26th at 8:00 P.M. for
discussion of the proposed development on the KLZ Site by the Larwin Corporation. Mr.
Lentsch asked that signs be posted on the property notifying area residents of the public
meeting, and suggested that some sort of flyer be delivered to the area residents also.
Mr. Supinger discussed the staff time required to prepare the mailings. Mr. Lentsch sug-
gested using the aqresso-graph as is done for mailing water bills. Mr. Supinger stated it
was, again, a matter of time for the personnel involved. Mr. Lentsch then suggested that
perhaps some member of the Northeast Englewood Citizens' Committee could be contacted, and
that perhaps members of that Committee would .deliver the flyers.
Mr. Supinger stated that City Council did approve the creation of a Local Housing Authority
and Urban Renewal Authori~y at their meeting of September 18th.
The meeting adjourned.
Gertrude G. Welty
Recording Secretary
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I. CALL TO ORDER.
CITY OF ENGLEWOOD PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION
SEPTEMBER 26, 1972
SPECIAL MEETING
8:30 P. M.
The special meeting of the City Planning and Zoning Commission was called to order at 8:30
P. M. by Chairman Lentsch.
Members present: Carlson; Lentsch; St~nley; Vobejda; Brown; Henning
Supinger, Ex-officio
Members absent: Weist; Robins; Ross
Also present: D. A. Romans, Assistant Director for Plan~ing;
B. Young, Planning Assistant;
B. Berardini, City Attorney;
E. P. Romans, Director of Parks & Recreation;
K. ~aggoner, Director of Public Works
Chairman Lentsch announced that this special meeting has been called to discuss the develop-
ment plans by Larwin Multihousing Corporation for the former KLZ Site at U.S. 285 and South
Lafayette Street. Mr. Lentsch stated that this was an informational meeting, and would be
open to comments from the public after the review of the request by Mr. Supinger, and the
presentation by representatives of the Larwin Multihousing Corporation.
~ ---- --
II. SUBDIVISION WAIVER
Larwin Multihousing Corporation
CASE #20-72B
August 9, 1972
August 22, 1972
Mr. Supinger stated that the request by Larwin Multihousing Corporation, 9100 Wilshire
Boulevard, Beverly Hills, California, is for a waiver to the subdivision regulations for
the entire site. Mr. Supinger stated that the zoning on the site by the City has been up-
held by the Colorado Supreme Court as R-3-A, Multi-family Residential, with the exception
of an area 150 feet in depth from Floyd South, and 1,202 feet east and west, running from
approximately South Franklin Street to the east boundary line of the site, which area is
zoned R-1-A, Single-family Residential. Mr. Supinger emphasized that the zoning of the
site is not a matter of question before the Commission, and that the proposal before the
Commission at the present time does me~t the requirements of the zone district in which it
is located.
Mr. Supinger stated that the request is for a waiver to the Sµbdivision Regulations, as pro-
vided ~or in §12-3-3b(l) of the Municipal Code, which section reads:
"Whenever a tract of land is of such unusual size or shape, or its location and relation-
ship to presently existing streets, alleys, utility rights-of-way and other neighboring de-
velopment is such that no substantial benefits are to be gained by the City or by the public.
from requiring a subdivision plat to be prepared, approved and filed therefor by the owner
or owners thereof accompanied by a survey plat and a sketch plan of the proposed development,
waive the necessity for the owner or owners of complying with the provisions of this Chapter.;
provided, however, that the Comµiission may impose reasonable conditions upon any such waiver;
and provided further, any such waiver, and the terms thereof, shall be reduced to writing
and recorded at the landowner's expense, and a $10.00 waiver fee paid to the City before
such waiver shall become effec~ive. (Ord. No. 17, §21.3-4, Series 1967)."
Mr. Supinger stated that he felt the term "subdivision waiver" is a misnomer, because the
applicant must still meet the requirements of providing for access, drainage, etc.; the
waiver is only to eliminate the necessity for filing a "plat" map of the property. Mr.
Supinger stated that it is the responsibility of the Planning Commission to determine
whether or not there is anything to be gained by the City or by the public if a subdivision
plat were to be filed.
Page 1476
Mr. Supinger stated that private restrictive covenants placed on the property limit the de-·
velopment to ·l,500 ·units; Larwin Multi-housing Corporation has agreed to abide by these
covenants which were a matter of record at the time they purchased the site. ·
Mr. Supinger then read the staff recommendation on the request, and the suggested conditions
to be made a part of the approval.
Mr. Supinger stated that the Englewood drainage system will be designed to handle a two-
year storm; the Larwin Multi-housing Corporation will be required to store on the site,
drainage in excess of the capacity of the Englewood drainage system, up to a 100-year or
1 % probability stor.m. Larwin will also be required to store drainage waters up to a 10 0-
year storm on the site until such time as the Englewood system is completed.
Mr. Supinger suggested a re-wording in condition #4, which now reads: "Applicant shall
agree to dedicate, free of liens and encumbrances, approximately 4.45 acres of land as shown
on the General Development Plan for public park purposes upon request of the City. Use of
said land for public park purposes may be subject to intermittent storage of storm waters
draining from applicant's prope~ty created by up to a 100-year storm." The suggested re-
wording would be: "Use of the 4.45 acres of land as shown for public park purposes may be
su b ject to intermittent storage of storm water drainage from the applicant's property up to
a 100-year storm."
Mr. Supinger stated that the City hopes to parlay the dedication of the 4.45 acres of land
for park purposes into matching federal grant for the development of the park. This would
involve $100,000+ in development funds if the grant is approved. Mr. Supinger stated that
the City was informed earlier in the day from the local office of HUD in Denver, that if the
City requires the dedication a s a condition of approval of the subdivision waiver, the land
would not be eligible for the City's share of matching funds for the grant. If the Larwin
Corporation "voluntarily agrees" to dedicate the land to the City for park purposes, it can
then be used for the City's matching funds.
Mr. Supinger stated that development will initially be on the north 1 /2 of the site; the
south 1 /2 of the site will be graded at the same time as the north 1 /2, but development
will not begin. Therefore, the applicant must make temporary drainage provisions which
will prevent silt from the undeveloped area from washing down onto the park area.
Mr. Supinger stated that Floyd Avenue shall be improved with sidewalk, curb and gutter and
paving along the boundary of the subject site. This would not involve a widening of Floyd
Avenue.
Mr. Supinger stated that to protect home-owners on the west and north perimeters of the site,
all access to the site during construction, by construction vehicles, shall be restricted to
points of access from U.S. 285 on the south of the site.
Mr. Supinger stated that the plans on display of the proposed development are "General Site
Plans", to which the applicant intends to develop. It has been suggested that any minor
changes could be approved by the Director of Community Development; but, major changes would
have to be approved by the Commission.
Mr. Lentsch asked if members of the Commission had any questions?
Mr. Lentsch then asked representatives of Larwin to make their presentation.
Mr. James Roman, Assistant Director -Land Planning, Larwin Multihousing Corporation, stated
that he would like to make clear the fact that the Larwin Multi-housing Corporation is, in
no way, asking for a variance to any of the codes and ordinances in effect; they are only
asking the requirement to file a subdivision plat be waived. Mr. Roman stated that he and
other representatives have read the staff report and the suggested conditions for approval
of their request; Larwin Multihousing Corporation is in full agreement with all of the con-
ditions as suggested. Mr. Roman stated that Larwin Multihousing Corporation will voluntarily
dedicate to the City of Englewood 4.45 acres of land along East Floyd Avenue for use as a
park. Mr. Roman stated that the City of Englewood will design and improve the park.
Mr. Roman stated that Larwin is proposing a "totally self-contained community"; the main
entrance will be on U.S. 285, and there will be a guard-house situated at this entrance
and manned 24-hours a day. There will be a second, minor point of access from U.S. 285,
and three points of access on Lafayette Street. These points of access will require a "card"
to activate a security gate. All visitors to the development would be cleared -through the
guarded entrance from U.S. 285.
Mr. Roman stated that the site will be developed in phases. There will be six swimming pools,
indoor-outdoor type. There are proposed ten, five-story, mid-rise buildings in the center of
the site, with the remaining development two-story. The units will rent from $200 to $350 per
month, and the size of the units will be from 650 sq. ft. to 1,500 sq. ft. Mr. Roman stated
that most phases will have 45% open space, which does not include the area designated for
parking space. The mid-rise area will have 77% open space, with a recreation plaza including
tennis cour,ts, volley-ball courts, ping-pong tables, saunas, ice skating rink, fire pits, etc.
The family area of the development will have a day-care center for children. This phase is
proposed for the eastern part of the site.
Mr. Roman stated that there will be a landscaped buffer strip between the proposed develop-
ment and Kent Village.
Mr. Roman stated that parking requirements have been exceeded by the proposed development,
and over 1 /2 of the parking to be provided will be under-ground. Mr. Roman stated that the
landscaping for the northern p o rtion of the site is estimated to cost $368,000.
Mr. Roman stated the entire project will. be under one. management, will have security control,
and there will be a general rental office located on the site.
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Page 1477
Mrs. Stanley asked Mr. Roman if she had understood correctly there would be no units with
more than two bedrooms, and if the number of children permitted in the family area would
be limited to two? Mr. Roman stated that some units would have four bedrooms, and that
families will be permitted in Phases IV and V. Mr. Roman stated that Larwin Multihousing
Corporation has letters from both Englewood School District and Cherry Creek School District
stating that they can accommodate all students that would live on the site.
Mrs. Henning stated that she felt one of the major concerns has been the non-dedication of
streets throughout .the site, but will be, rather, "private streets." She asked if, at
some point in the future the site were to be "opened up", would the ·streets have been con-
structed to City of Englewood standards? Mr. Roman stated that Larwin Corporation will not
relinquish management of the site, and asked Mr. Eldon Von Ohlen, Chief Engineer of Meurer-
Serafini-Meurer, to discuss the matter of the streets. Mr. Von Ohlen stated that they are
working on the development of the ·north 1 /2 of the site, and that the streets would be con-
structed to the standards of a dedicated public street, as far as base and paving is con-
cerned. The width of streets is proposed at 60 ft. at points of entrance, and 30 ft.
throughout the site. Mrs. Henning asked if parking would be permitted on streets? Mr.
Roman asked that all parking areas are designated on the general site plan, and there will
be no on-street parking permitted. Mr. Lentsch asked of the staff what the width of resi-
dential streets in the City was? Mr. Supinger stated that the residential streets are 36
ft. wide from curb face to curb face.
Mr. Lentsch asked about the storm sewer for the site? Mr. Roman stated that engineers for
the Larwin Corporation have been working with the City engineers on the drainage and storm
sewer system. Mr. Roman referred the matter to Mr. Kells Waggoner for explanation.
Mr. Waggoner stated that the concept proposed by Larwin has been approvedr but that the
plan has not been finalized. Mr. Waggoner stated that the concept is to drain .up to a
100-year storm on the western portion of the site at the northwest corner of the .site, down
Lafayette Street through a pipe to hook onto the main system at Lafayett~ and Eastman. The
rest of the site would be drained through pipe or over-ground flow into detention ponds in
the park area. This would be a controlled outlet, and would drain into a storm sewer at
South Franklin Street and Floyd Avenue. Mr. Waggoner stated that there is very little sur-
face water that would exit the site.
Mr. Waggoner stated that during the temporary construction phase, Larwin will be asked to
store drainage on their site until the Englewood system is completed. Mr. Waggoner stated
that the contract for the Englewood drainage system is to be awarded on December 4th. Mr.
Waggoner stated that this temporary storage of storm waters would be done by retention ponds
on the Larwin site, and would then be pumped out.
Mr. Supinger .commented that the temporary storage of storm waters on the site might delay
the construction of one or more buildings in Phase I. After the Englewood system is con-
structed and the retention ponds drained, the buildings will be constructed on the site.
Mr. Waggoner discussed the financing of the Englewood system, and stated that it is financed
through the Public Improvement Fund. Englewood has a 3 % City Sales Tax, of which 1 % is ear-
marked for the Public Improvement Fund. This fund has now accumulated 2.9 million dollars
for storm drainage; the City has $645,000 from federal grants to pay for installation of the
Northeast and Northwest Englewood Storm Drainage system.
Mr. J. Smellie
3285 s. Race -asked if he understood correctly that the flow of drainage on ' Floyd
Avenue would be reversed to run to University?
Mr. Waggoner stated that the pipe would go back to University Boulevard to pick up the
water at University and Floyd, and would come down Floyd to Franklin, then to Eastman Avenue.
A gentleman in the audience stated that he understood the proposed storm sewer was to have
been started last November; he stated "you want to drain the trash and dirt in front of my
house."
Mr. Supinger pointed out that part of the drainage system has had to be coordinated with
Denver, as part of our system will drain to Harvard Gulch, and the system within Denver
must be constructed before the Englewood system ties onto it.
Mr. Lentsch stated that many people are concerned about when the system will be completed.
Mr. Waggoner reiterated that the contract for the Englewood system will be awarded December
4th, and the contractor will have eight months to complete the Northeast Englewood and
Northwest Englewood drainage basins.
Mr. Donald Fullerton
3265 South Race Street -asked about the detention ponds in the park, and also about the
oils that would drain onto the park area from the street, whether
or not the oils would kill the grass.
Mr. Waggoner stated that Parks & Recreation Director Romans has designed concrete swales to
carry the "every day" water from watering, etc.; as to the oil draining onto the park area,
Mr. Waggoner noted "it doesn't kill weeds."
A gentleman from the audience asked whether or not the Englewood system had been designed
with the drainage from the subject site in min:l? Mr. Waggoner stated that the Englewood
system did take into consideration drainage from the subject site. Mr. Waggoner stated that
the design had projected multi-family development on the site, and allowed 60 cfs for a two-
year storm; the Larwin development will be allowed to let out the 60 cfs and store the rest
of the drainage up to a 100-year storm until the Englewood system can handle the drainage.
Mr. Buchannan
3319 S. Lafayette ~ asked if Franklin Street was to be opened through the subject site to
Hampden Avenue (U.S. 285)? He also asked where the cuts were that will
take care of parking areas on the western portion of the site?
Mr. Waggoner stated that South Franklin Street will not go through the project. South
Franklin is an easement for .the Denver Water Board, and will remain an easement, but it
will not be opened up as a street. Mr. Waggoner stated that the access points along U.S.
Page 1478
285 will be at the present median openings at approximately South Gilpin Street and at ~un~et
Drive. Mr. Waggoner stated that the main access point on South Lafayette Street opens into
East Girard Avenue, and would form an "intersection" at that point; the other two openings
on South Lafayette Street are access to the .immediate parking areas.
Mr. A. L. Goosman
3335 S. Lafayette -noted that the northernmost curb cut on South Lafayette is directly
opposite Mr. Buchannan's bedroom window; he stated that may be a minor .
cut in the curb, but there can logically be 1,261 cars in Phase I, most
of which he feels .will use that particular cut. Mr. Goosman stated that
he had read through the staff .report, in which is noted that the Police
Department has stated that .they will have some difficulty patrolling the
area because of the access through security gates, past a guard house,
etc. Mr. Goosman asked what time the security gates would be closed,
and what time they would be opened in the mornings?
Mr. James Roman stated that the guard house will have someone on duty 24-hours a day; the
other security gates may be opened with a plastic card which the police department will be
given.
A member of the audience questioned the capacity of the Englewood water plant and sewage
facilities? Mr. Supinger stated that the Director of Utilities has stated that the water
supply and sanitary sewer plant capacity is adequate to accommodate this development. Tap
fees from the proposed development will be used to provide the lines to insure the capacity
to the site. Mr. Supinger stated that the water plant has a capacity at the present time 1o
adequately serve a population in Englewood of 55,000 people; the present population is
approximately 35,000. Mr. Supinger noted that the growth of population in the City has not
been very rapid, and that the City has, in fact, considered selling some water rights they
now have. Mr. Supinger stated that the sewage treatment plant is being rehabilitated to
increase the capacity, and the City of Englewood is working with the City of Littleton to
have a joint sewer treatment facility. Mr. Supinger emphasized that there is no problem
with either of these utilities in regard to the capacity to accommodate the proposed develop-
ment.
Mrs. Henning stated she would like to clarify the matter of the sale of water rights; the
sale is because of non-productivity and not because the City administration feels they do
not need these rights.
A gentleman in the audience stated he had called the State Water Pollution Board, and they
stated that the present capacity of the sewage plant is 8,000,000 gallons. This gentleman
stated "you are in the processing of adding 4,000,000 gallons per day; a total production
of 100 gallons per person per day in this site, you will exceed the capacity by 1.1
million."
Mr. Don Fullerton stated that he felt there was an error in the statement of the gentleman
regarding the sewage produced by the site; he stated it would be 450,000 gallons rather
than 4,000,000+. Mr. Fullerton stated that the residents of Northeast Englewood have had
considerable water pressure problems during the summer months; he asked if this problem
would be increased with the proposed development?
Mr. Supinger stated that this matter has been discussed with Utilities Director Carroll, an:l
Mr. Carroll is of the opinion that some areas of Northeast Englewood may have increased
water pressure because of the development, in that some of the lines will be "looped". Mr.
Supinger stated that Mr. Carroll emphasized that this would not apply to the entire North-
east Englewood area. Mr. Supinger further stated that there will be a new 6,000,000 gallon
water reservoir completed shortly at South Clarkson and East Belleview Avenue, which would
also aid in the problem of water pressure.
A gentleman in the audience asked about the valuation of the proposed development: What
does Englewood expect to gain per year from this development?
Mr. Supinger stated that he could not give the figures on the amount of taxes that would be
coming in from this development; he stated that the City of Englewood does, as a matter of
fact, receive a very small portion of its income from property taxes. Mr. Supinger poi~ted
out that the City of Englewood has one of the lowest mill levies in the State of Colorado,
and again emphasized that the City does not gain much of its revenue from property taxes.
The gentleman stated that he couldn't agree with Mr. Supinger, and noted that Kent Village
pays $100,000 per year in property taxes. He stated that he wanted comparative figures for
the proposed development.
Mr. Supinger stated that there are many other taxing bodies other than the City of Englewoal
which do receive revenue from property taxes, and cited Arapahoe County and the School Dis-
trict as two. The gentleman again stated that he wanted comparative figures on the revenue
to be realized in property taxes_ He further stated that regarding the proposed development,
"the back end of the entire thing is our front yard." He cited a situation where someone
living in the proposed development --a duck hunter --would be leaving early in the morning
and "revving up the motor." This gentleman stated that he wanted the front of the buildings
to face the front of their units in Kent Village.
Mr. James Roman stated that an estimate of the taxes to be realized from the proposed de-
velopment is $900,000. Mr. Roman asked Mr. Don Roark, architect for part of the develop-
ment, to discuss the design of the proposed development. Mr. Roark stated that "the state-
ment that the units back on Kent Village property isn't quite true." and noted there is a
landscaping buffer plus two rows of parking between the Kent Village property line and the
first buildings in the proposed development. Mr. Roark stated this would be about 75 feet
between the building and the property line. Mr. Roark stated that this design came as a
result of meeting with the people in Kent Village, and the developers agreed to move the
buildings in their proposed development further away from the property line. Mr. Roark
also noted that some of the units in the proposed development are lower in height than those
in Kent Village. Mr. Roark stated that he was the architect for the Kent Village develop-
ment also. Mr. Roark stated that the residents of Kent Village had objected to the initial
proposal of garages near the property line; Mr. Roark stated these have been removed. The
developer now proposes the landscaping and the two rows of parking. Mr. Roark stated that
the depth of the landscaping along the property line is 15 to 25 feet.
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Page 1479
A member of the audience stated that at the initial meetings with the developers, it was
agreed that the buildings .would be angled, and that parking would be on the other side of
the buildings so that the Kent Village residents would not see it. This person disagreed
that the landscaping will be a "buffer" because the Kent Village land is higher. It was
also agreed that the family units in the proposed development would not be p+aced near the
Kent Village development, as Kent Village does not allow children in their development and
the residents wanted to retain these amenities in their area. It was also stated that the
parking should be "in front o f your buildings rather than in front of ours", and that the
Kent Village residents would be subjected to engine noise and exhaust fumes from the pro-
posed development.
Mr. Roark stated that he felt the buffer and the grade separation would be of bene f it to
the residents of the Kent Village area.
Mr. Fullerton noted that information available indicates that while 1 /3 of the site is in
Englewood School District, and does not allow small children in this portion of the develop-
ment, it is estimated there will be 136 secondary-level students to attend Englewood
schools; 2 /3 of the site is in the Cherry Creek District, and this 2 /3 o f the site is
the portion that allows families, yet the estimate is only for 113 children from this
area. Mr. Fullerton questioned the difference in the figures.
Mr. Supinger stated that the figures for the Englewood School District were compiled by the
Department of Community Development, and that the figures for the Cherry Creek School Dis-
trict were compiled by school personnel in that district.
Mr. Fullerton questioned that the Cherry Creek Schools could handle the children from the
proposed development? Mr. Supinger stated that plans for the development were submitted to
the Cherry Creek School District officials, and they were .asked if their schools could
handle the students. Mr. Supinger stated that the office was informed that the Cherry
Creek Schools could handle the students from the proposed development.
Mrs. Henning stated that it was her understanding that Larwin Corporation would have no
objection if the entire site were to be incorporated into the Englewood School District ,
but that Cherry Creek District does not want to give up the land. Mrs. Henning stated
this would take action of the school boards of both districts to change the district
boundaries.
Mr. James Hilger
3166 S. Vine St. -discussed the taxes to be realized from the proposed development. He
stated that Mr. Roman had stated that an estimate is $900,000; he asked
if this was f or the entire site, and how many years would it take to
complete the development?
.
Mr. Roman stated that it would take four to five years; the $900,000 estimate was for the
entire site. Mr. Roman stated that the Arapahoe County Tax Assessor sets the evaluation on
property, that the Larwin Corporation does not.
Mr. Hilger stated he wanted to know how much .the City of Englewood would receive from , this
property per year. Mr. Hilger asked how Larwin Corporation could determine that their pro-
posal would be a profitable enterprise if they didn't consider the matter of taxes? Mr.
Hilger $tated he also wanted to know how much the services to the development such as
police, fire, and utilities were going to cost the City of Englewood .
.
Mr. Supinger stated that he had tried to make clear in his previous statements that no
residential development in the City of Englewood will pay enough in property taxes to the
City to pay for the services given to the residential property. Mr. Supinger pointed out
that the City depends mostly on sales tax revenue for most of the operati~g budget ; very
little of the money in the general fund, from which services are paid for, comes f rom
property tax revenue. Mr. Supinger again emphasized that no residential property in the
City of Englewood would pay enough in property taxes to pay for the services rendered .
Mr. Hilger then discussed the proposed park area. He noted that the drawings of the site
development do not now show the "drainage pools" as were previously shown. Mr. Hilger
stated that "if the land is to be dedicated to the City free of encumbrances, then why do
we have the obligation to say this will be used f or drainage'?"
Mr. Von Ohlen stated that the area to be used for retention ponds would be approximately two
acres , and that 98% of the time these two acres will be available f or other uses. Mr. Von
Ohlen stated that Mr. Romans,Parks & Recreation Director, and the project engineer are still
working on the design. Discussion followed. Mr. Packy Romans discussed the proposed park
development; he noted that the final design is not completed, but among the facilities pro-
posed are four tennis courts. Mr. Romans stateg that they propose to lower the elevation o f
the park one foot to help hold storm drainage waters from the 100-year storm, which will
drain into a pipe system. Small shelter houses with flower gardens, all purpose courts, and
possibly a fountain are proposed for the park. Mr. Romans stated that the City will make
application for Federal Aid on December 30th, and the application must be suomitted to the
State of Colorado Parks Department. In March of 1973, the City will know whether or not the
grant has been approved; as soon as the grant is approved, an architect will be hired to draw
it up, and the total park will be built as soon as possible. Mr. Lentsch asked what would
be done in the event Federal funds are not approved for the park development? Mr. Romans
stated that an appeal for funding would be made to City Council. Mr. Romans stated that he
felt the possibility of approval was very good, but it could be disapproved.
Mr. Supinger stated that it might again be stated that the reason the City wants to delay
accepting dedication of the park until after the Federal Aid grant is approved, is that
the City can then use the value of the land that is dedicated as our matching share of 50%
of the total cost of the improvement of the park.
A member of the audience asked i f the tennis courts as proposed in the Larwin development
itself wo~ld be lighted? Mr. Roman stated they would be.
Mr. Goosman asked what progress had beeQ made within the last two weeks in regard the ease-
ment for the Fire Department thru the park? Mr. Supinger stated that Chief Hamilton has
stated that access through the park will not be necessary; there will be a "crash gate" at
the west end of the park area.
Page 1480
Mr. Goosman commented that from what he has seen of fire lanes in other developments, it will
be difficult to prevent people from parking in these fire lanes. Mr. Goosman asked why the
point of access through the crash gate couldn't be used for an exit? Mr. Goosman further
stated that in ·the time he has lived on Lafayette Street, he "has never seen Fire trucks
coming down Floyd."
Mr. Hilger commented that he had a "great amount of faith in Packy Romans to give the people
the best park we can have ; however, it would be much better if they could get the total 4.5
acres rather than the 2.5 acres" after the storm drainage retention ponds are full. Mr.
Hilger stated that "Floyd Avenue has always been a boundary" and that residents in the area
"have always been told there would be no access from Floyd or to Floyd." "Do we have any
definite proof that Floyd will never be open to this development?"
Mr. Supinger stated that the only answer he could give would be that the proposed develop-
ment plan, if approved, must be recorded with the County Clerk & Recorder, and if there is
any substantive change in the plan, it must come back through the Commission. Mr. Supinger
stated that no one can guarantee there will "never" be access onto Floyd Avenue. Mr. Hilger
asked "do you know any reason to grant such modifications?" Mr. Supinger stated "not at
thie time."
Mr. Hilger again stated that people of northeast Englewood were assured of no access from
this site onto Floyd Avenue; he feels that it is important to preserve the integrity of the .
community. Mr. Hilger stated he "does not think what is given to Larwin should over-ride
what the citizens want."
Mr. Hilger then asked that "assurance be given to the citizens of Englewood that they will
not have any increase in their taxes on sewage and water as a result .of the burden placed
upon us by this 'gleaming albatross'."
Mr. George Thompson
3110 South High St. -stated he was tired of hearing someone he pays defend the Larwin
Corporation.
Mr . Clifford Harvey
3345 S. Lafayette -stated he was concerned about traffic on South Lafayette. Mr. Harvey
noted that the "card access" as mentioned by Larwin Corporation .will tie
up a lot of traffic. Mr. Harvey asked if there was "any assurance that
if this doesn't work out and Lafayette must be widened where the property
will come from?" Mr. Harvey asked why was a guarantee given that there
would be no access onto Floyd Avenue? Mr. Harvey then discussed the
parking ratio of 1-1/2:1; he noted that "lots of apartment dwellers have
boats, campers, visitors --it sounds good on paper, but it may not work,
and this should be considered now."
Mr. Lentsch stated that the parking ratio had recently been raised, and that the development
is providing parking in excess of the requirements. Mr. Supinger pointed out that parking
requirements are 1-1/2 spaces for efficiency, one and two-bedroom units ; for more than two-
bedrooms, the requirements is two spaces per unit. Guest parking must also be provided, one
space for each five units.
Mrs. Fry asked "who would be the primary people who would be renting these units?" Mr.
Roark stated that all types of people would live in this development, and cited young adults,
single people, professional people. Mr. Roark stated that the prime factor would be the
ability to pay the rent. Mrs. Fry stated that on two-bedroom units there could be four
adults living in such a unit, and you could expect four cars. Mr. Roark cited a complex of
1,000 units, where the parking ratio is 1-3/4:1; and stated that it is working out very
satisfactorily. Mrs. Fry stated that 11 it looks very dense."
Mr. Grohusky
3111 South Race -asked if the Larwin Corporation could proceed at all if the request for
waiver is not approved?
Mr. Berardini stated that the Planning Commission must determine whether or not to grant
the waiver; if approved, the applicant may proceed on the development; if disapproved, they
may not proceed, but may appeal to City Council.
Mr. Grohusky asked what criteria was used to determine whether a development such as is pro~
posed could be approved or disapproved? Mr. Berardini cited the Subdivision Regulations,
which sets forth standards for public access, alleys, utilities, etc. Mr , Berardini pointed
out that this application meets all the requirements of the Subdivision Regulations but one,
and this one is the fact that no public streets are proposed through the site; rather, all
streets will be privately owned and maintained.
Mr. Grohusky asked why the matter of economics was not part of the criteria for approval,
and the majority vote of the people in the surrounding area should also be part of the
approval criteria. Mr. Berardini pointed out that the economics as discussed at this meeting
lie outside the jurisdiction of the City; the valuation and .assessment is determined by the
County Assessor. Mr. Grohusky stated that he felt a report on the economic factor of this
development should be made public and asked "can we expect such a report analyzing the
economics and opinions of people" in the area? Mr. Berardini stated that he felt there
would be some information .available, but didn't know whether there was a definite analysis.
Mr. Berardini pointed out that the policy of the City is that the majority part of city
services would be finances by sales tax --not property taxes.
Mr. Roman stated that the residents of this development and the property owner will pay as
much in taxes as anyone else; as far as the drain in city services for the development,
there would be less, inasmuch as there will be no dedicated streets to be maintained by
the City. Larwin Corporation will be responsible for maintenance of streets, cleaning of
streets; garbage and trash removal will be the responsibility of Larwin Corporation. Mr.
Roman stated that he felt the proposed development will be an asset to the City. Mr. Roman
further stated that Larwin Engineers have been working with the City Engineers, and they
have determined there are no problems on drainage, etc., and that you "must give credance
to their knowledge and training."
Mrs. Thompson asked "where is the traffic going to go that will be coming out of here?"
Mrs. Thompson noted that Hampden Avenue, South Downing and South University Boulevard cannot
handle the traffic.
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Mr. Roman stated that the City Traffic Engineer has stated the streets can handle the
traffic.
A member of the audience asked if the State Highway Department had approved access cuts
onto Hampden at Gilpin? Mr. Bob Johnson of Don Roark Architects, stated that these points
of access have been approved; if traffic warrants it, a signal will be installed at this
point.
A member of the audience questioned the possibility of access at the southwest corner of
the site (South Lafayette and Hampden Avenue /U.S. 285). Mr. Supinger stated that access
at this particular point is not desirable because it would occur on a curve. Mr. Supinger
stated that access onto Hampden Avenue from U.S. 285 will be closed, and traffic wanting
to have access to the Highway will have to travel either to Downing to make a left turn
to go east, or have access to the Highway on a west-bound movement only.
A gentleman in the audience stated he lived at the northwest corner of the site, and that
"you can't back out without someone running into you"; "they are going· down to Floyd; you
will overload the street' go through Kent V.illage and two .or three · access points of Floyd
Avenue."
Mr. Howard Brown stated that he wished to thank the members of the audience for attending
this meeting, and stated that he knew they were concerned about the proposed development.
Mr. Brown pointed out that he, Mrs. Henning, and Mr. Lentsch all live in the general area.
Mr. Brown stated that some of the rumors that have been circulated about the proposal are
"unbelieveable." Mr. Brown pointed out that the Commission was unaware it was "back to
school night" for the Cherry Creek School ·District when the meeting was set for this date;
he emphasized that "we didn't ,deliberately plan it this way." Mr. Brown stated that he
was disappointed that all the answers to the audience questions were not available tonight.
Mr. Brown pointed out that the City co_uld not say "you can't develop this property because
of the taxes, etc."; he pointed out that if they meet the requirements, they can build. Mr.
Brown stated he had considered the matter of water and sewer service many times, and feels
that the City is in good shape. Mr. Brown pointed out that the City of Englewood is helping
Littleton at the present time in the matter of sewage treatment. Mr. Brown urged the
members of the audience to go to the Utilities Department and discuss the matter with them,
and to view the facilities that Englewood has. Mr .. Brown stated he felt the drainage problem
can be worked out; he stated he was sorry that the City does not have its drainage system
installed at this time. Mr. Brown stated he has seen some of the homes in the northeast
portion of the City that have been flooded during heavy rain storms; he pointed out that "we
have done something; it isn't in the ground yet, but this Council has done something." Mr.
Brown pointed out that the City of Denver has held up part of the drainage system, but the
system will be developed. Mr. Brown stated as far as the question of the park area was con-
cerned, he is "grateful the Larwin Corporation is giving almost five acres of land for park
purposes." Mr. Brown stated he felt the City needed all the green space they can get, and
he "can't see complaining because part of it will be used to solve a drainage problem."
Mr. Hilger retorted that "it's nice to know our wishes are being listened to; there isn't
one person here in favor of this particular project." "If our wishes have one iota of in-
fluence on this Commission, I hope they will heed our opinions." Mr. Hilger stated he had
appeared before City Council asking that there be 12 -15 acres of this land set aside for
park purposes; "we have people who came in here from California ; they are looking at the
use of the land, and will give us smog, people, kids, problems with water pressure.'' Mr.
Hilger stated there was "no reason to approve this project but to enrich the coffers of
Larwin;" "They don't have the guts to get up and answer our questions; we are being taken."
Mrs. Henning stated that she did not feel that some of the comments made at this meeting
have been constructive. She acknowledged that there have been some valid questions ; how-
ever, she pointed out, the matter of zoning on the land has been through court, and that
the R-3-A Zoning of this land has been upheld by the Supreme Court of Colorado. It has
been ruled .that this land will be developed as multi-family and it's out of the hands of
the City. Mrs. Henning stated that "it's obvious you would like to have 55 acres of open
space;" the whole point of holding the meeting was to get comments and opinions of residents
in the area, and to possibly make changes in the proposal to improve the plan. Mrs. Henning
stated that it "doesn't do any of us any good to stand up and call names." Mrs. Henning
stated that she hoped "we can go ahead and make this a good development."
Mrs. Peggy Spargur asked where the family units were proposed to be? Mr. Roman stated that
Phases IV and V were family-t.ype units; there would be in the Cherry Creek School District.
Mrs. Spargur stated that the Cherry Creek School District is "very over-crowded." She asked
"have you asked to be released from Cherry Creek and go into Englewood School District?" Mr.
Roman stated that Larwin Corporation representatives have had meetings with representatives
of both school districts, and they will be happy to do whatever the two districts decide.
Mr. Roman stated that there will be 304 family units in the Cherry Creek District, and that
the Cherry Creek officials indicate they estimate 113 children from these units.
Mr. Goosman asked the age of children permitted in the adult units? Mr. Roman stated they
would be 18 years and up. Mr. Goosman pointed out that there could be three cars per unit
in this case. Mr. Goosman asked where points, of access for electrical and telephone service
would be? Mr. Von Ohlen stated that he didn't feel any body knew exactly where the access
would be; he stated that all lines would be underground.
Mr. George Thompson asked if he understood that the primary Qoncern at this meeting was the
matter of a subdivision waiver? Mr. Lentsch stated th~t it was to inform the people; the re-
quest from Larwin Corporation is for a subdivision waiver. Mr. Thompson asked i f there was
a precedent for approving subdivision waivers? He stated he understood a subdivision was a
plat of the land. He asked "what really are the reasons for the waiver other than it will
save them a quarter million dollors?"
Mr. James Roman stated there would be no saving of any sort for Larwin Corporation. Mr.
Roman emphasized that Larwin Corporation will meet all requirements of the codes and ordinances
of the City; and that the recommendation of the Department of Community Development is that
the waiver be approved only if Larwin agrees to all the conditions set forth in the staff re-
port.
Mr. Berardini stated he felt there was a precedent for subdivision waivers; the Commission
has granted such waivers many times in the .past. Mr. Berardini stated that a waiver may be
Page 1482
granted by the Planning Commission if they feel that there is nothing to be gained by requirjng
a subdivision plat to be filed. Mr. Berardini noted that a great deal of information h~s been
submitted by the applicants on this property, and cited a site plan, drainage plan, etc.
Mr. Richard Brown
3403 South Race St. -stated the same question has come up on the matter of the waiver several
times; if this subdivision waiver is approved, then the Planning Co~
mission has in substance adopted and approved the over-all plan. Mr.
Brown stated he was of the opinion that if the City approved the request
for a waiver,. the Planning. Commission was satisfied that the City and
citizens would be protected. Mr. Brown stated he felt it was evident
restrictions placed in the Subdivision Regulations make it clear that
the Planning Commission could consider the community as a whole and
not just the benefits of one property owner. Mr. Brown questioned the
construction of 1,500 units; he noted that no more than 1,500 may be
built because of restrictive covenants placed on the property. Mr.
Brown stated that "this plan calls for their building of all units
they possibly can build." Mr. Brown stated that he 11 thinks the
boundaries of the park coincide exactly with the boundaries of the
R-3-A Zone"; Mr. Brown further stated that he didn't approve of the
park area being used for storage of drainage waters, but feels "Larwin
should provide for their own drainage." Mr. Brown stated that he is a
resident of Kent Village; he feels th:ls plan has given no consideratio.n
to the problems of Kent Village; they are the only neighbors that have
no street dividing their property from the subject site. Mr. Brown
stated that on three of the four sides of the site, structures are
oriented so that they front on the streets, and "face the outside world."
The front of the structures that are along the Kent Village boundary do
not face into Kent Village; rather, the residents of Kent Village wil~
face the rear of units on the Larwin site. Mr. Brown stated "they
gave us rears, two rows of parking, trash cans, boats, etc." Mr.
Brown noted that the first row of parking has 107 spaces; the second
row has 94 spaces. Mr. Brown stated that Kent Village has five
parking areas, each able to take two cars which would front on Kent
Village traffic. Mr. Brown stated this would be 1 /4 mile of parking
exposure right against one of the "finest residential developments
in the area." Mr. Brown stated he felt it would be reasonable of the
Planning Commission to require of Larwin Corporation that steps be
taken to reduce density and alleviate the problems of traffic congestion,
school over-crowding, drainage, water and sewer, etc. Mr. Brown stated
that he believes the Planning Commission has the power to withhold the
approval of the waiver on "such conditions as you see fit." Mr. Brown
stated that "if Larwin should go the subdivision route the requirements
you are entitled to make could enforce a lower density." Mr. Brown
stated that he felt the heart of the problem is the density which ex-
ceeds the neighboring area and the ability of the utilities to serve
the area.
Mr. Roark noted that at the time Kent Village was developed, some of the same objections
were voiced. Mr. Roark stated that circumstances aren't that much different.
A gentleman of the audience asked Mr. Roark the density of the proposed development and the
density of Kent Village? Mr. Roark stated that the proposed development will have 28 units
per acre, and that Kent Village has 8 units per acre.
Mr. Roman stated he would again like to make it clear that the request is only for a waiver
on the requirement of filing a subdivision plat; he noted that there have been no objections
to this request from the City Departments. Mr. Roman stated that Larwin Corporation has
agreed to the conditions as set forth in the staff report if the waiver is approved.
Mr. Thompson stated that he felt density was a factor on whether or not the waiver should
be granted. Mr. Thompson addressed Mr. Roman, and stated "I haven't heard one reason as
to why you want out of the requirement of filing a plat." Mr. Roman stated it was a matter
of saving time for Larwin.
Mr. Howard Brown asked the City Attorney's opinion as to whether the Planning Commission
had the power to make changes and lower the proposed density? Mr. Berardini stated that he
would have to disagree with statements from the floor to that effect; Mr. Berardini agreed
that reasonable conditions could be imposed on the granting of the waiver, but noted that
the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance zones this land as R-3-A, and was upheld in the Supreme
Court. Mr. Berardini stated that the property may, therefore, be developed in accordance
with the R-3-A standards, and to place restrictions on the development in violation of the
Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance would be "unreasonable."
Mr. Richard Brown stated that he still felt that the waiver could be refused for any reason .
the Commission saw fit; the Larwin Corporation could then be required .to file a subdivision
plat, and at this point, the Commission would have the power to restrict the density.
Mr. Berardini stated that one of the main reasons for requiring a subdivision plat was to
assure the dedication of public streets; the developers of the site do not propose to have
public streets within the complex. Mr. Berardini stated he didn't know if density could be
affected by requiring street dedication. Mr. Berardini stated that the applicant is en-
titled to present a plan to the Commission that they feel would be beneficial to them, and
not harmful to the neighbors. Mr. Berardini stated that to disapprove a plan in an attempt
to lower the density would not be a proper action.
Mr. James Roman noted that the Commission has exercised "leverage", and noted the conditions
to which Larwin has agreed that have been attached to the approval of the request. Mr.
Roman stated that at the last meeting with the Commission, Larwin was asked to present to
the Commission a statement from every department and agency involved in regard to the Larwin
request for a waiver; Mr. Roman stated they have complied with this request, and no objections
have been voiced. Mr. Roman stated he "thinks you must abide by the experts."
Mr. Thompson stated he agreed with Mr. Richard Brown in regard to the needs of the neighbor-
hood; he stated he knows the "color of the experts", and thinks neighborhood opinion should
be considered right along with engineer's statements, etc.
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Page 1483
Mr. Howard Brown asked Mr. Roman if he saw any possibility o f making any changes next to
Kent Village to try to satisfy some of their demands? Mr. Roman stated that the plan on
display at the present time reflects changes that have been made with the Kent Village
residents in mind. Mr. Roman noted that the buildings have been set back 75 feet from
the property line andthat landscaping has been instituted; Mr. Roman stated ''there will be
a lot less traffic going up and down the parking lane than there will be on Lafayette, for
instance."
Mr. Quinn stated he wasn't quite clear on the drainage situation; is the park to be used
for a storage area during construction? Will this site collect drainage off of Floyd and
store it until Englewood's drainage system is constructed and ready to handle it? Where
were the points o f drainage fr om the site?
Mr. Waggoner stated that the total run-off allowed from the site is 60 cfs; 'water in excess
of this amount will be stored in the park area until the .Englewood system can accommodate
it. Drainage will be taken off the site at three points: the northwest corner of the site,
Lafayette and Floyd; Franklin and Floyd; and High and Floyd. The total o f these three out-
lets may not exceed the 60 cfs. Mr. Waggoner stated that the temporary storage facilities
will depend on phasing o f construction.
Mr. Quinn stated that he felt a big mistake was made as far as Kent Village drainage was con-
cerned; he stated it was a "headache for Englewood". Another gentleman in the audience agreed,
and stated that he "gets all the .trash and drainage from Kent Village" in his front yard when
there is a hard rain storm.
Mr. Howard Brown suggested that, because o f the hour, the meeting be closed. Mr. Lentsch
noted that there was another item on the agenda; however, he didn't feel that the Commission
could take action on this matter at this time.
Henning moved:
Vobejda seconded:
The motion carried.
Consideration of the off-street parking plan for Larwin Corporation be
tabled until October 3, 1972.
III. DIRECTOR'S CHOICE.
Mr. Supinger stated that the RTD Board of Directors had scheduled a meeting at Englewood
City Hall on September 28th, 3:00 P.M. to consider Englewood and Arapahoe County transporta-
tion needs; he suggested that perhaps members of the Commission would want to attend this
meeting.
Mr. Lentsch thanked members of the audience for attend;i.ng and stated that the matters per-
taining to the Larwin Corporation development would again be considered at the next meeting
of the Commission on October 3rd.
The meeting adjourned at 11:35 P.M.
Gertrude G. Welty
Recording Secretary
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
I. CALL TO ORDER.
CITY OF ENGLEWOOD PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION
October 3, 1972
The Regular Meeting of the City Planning and Zoning Commission was called to orde r at 8:10 .
P.M. by Chairman Lentsch.
Members present: Lentsch; Robins; Carlson; Ross; Weist; Brown; Stanley; Henning
Supinger, Ex-officio
Members absent: Vobejda
Also present: City Attorney Berardini; Assistant Director o f Community Development Romans;
Utilities Director Carroll; Public Works Director Waggoner; Fire Chief Hamilton;
Police Chief Clasby; Director of Libraries Lute; Finance Director Nollenberger;
City Manager Dial; Assistant City Manager McDivitt.
II. APPROVAL OF MINUTES.
Mr. Lentsch stated that the Minutes of the Regular meeting of September 19th were to be
considered f or approval.
Brown moved :
Stanley seconded: The Minutes of September 19, 1972, be approved as written. ·
The motion carried.