HomeMy WebLinkAbout1980-11-18 PZC MINUTES•
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CITY OF ENGLEWOOD PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 18, 1980
I. CALL TO ORDER.
The regular meeting of the City Planning and Zoning Commission was
called to order at 7:00 P. M. by Chairman Judith B. Pierson.
Members present: Williams, Tanguma, Senti, Pierson, McBrayer, Draper,
Carson, Becker, Barbre
Romans, Ex-officio
Members absent: None
Also present: James Keller, Executive Director of the EDDA
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES.
Mrs. Pierson stated that the Minutes of November 5, 1980, were t o be
considered fo r approval.
Carson moved:
Barbre seconded: The Minutes of November 5, 1980, be approved as written.
AYES: Barbre, Williams, Tanguma, Senti, Pierson, McBrayer, Carson
NAYS: None
ABSTAIN: Draper, Becker
The motion carried.
III. BICYCLE TRAIL REPORT CASE 1132-80
Mrs. Romans indicated a display of maps, one of which identified the
Regional Bicycle Transportation System showing the primary and secondary
routes which would affect the City of Englewood. Another map identified
the bicycle routes in the City which were considered by the Planning
Commission in 1972 and again in 1974. The Regional primary routes include
South Zuni Street from West Evans Avenue south to Dartmouth Avenue, Oxford
Avenue from the east to west City boundaries, and South Sherman Street
from East Yale Avenue south to Dartmouth Avenue. Secondary routes on
the Regional Plan include Dartmouth Avenue, Layton Avenue, Fox/Elati
Streets, Bannock Street north of Dartmouth, and along the South Platte
River in Englewood.
Mrs. Romans pointed out that the Regional Plan does not show a trail
system along Big Dry Creek or other waterways through the City. Mrs.
Romans pointed out, also, the relation of the proposed primary and
secondary routes to Englewood parks •
Mrs. Romans then referred to the Englewood bicycle system which the staff
and the Commission have considered since 1972/74. Attempts have been
made to avoid using Dartmouth, which is a heavily traveled street; how-
ever, it was pointed out by Mr. McBrayer at the last meeting that bicyclists
are going to need some means of protection in crossing Broadway, and that
perhaps the signalized intersection at Dartmouth and Broadway should be
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used. The local plan proposes to make use of right-of-way along drainage-
ways such as Big Dry Creek, City Ditch, and others. Mrs. Romans stated
that Mr. Carson had pointed out prior to beginning the meeting that a ~
majority of the right-of-way along the City Ditch has been vacated and
there would be no way that a bicycle route could be developed along this
area. She stated that while a great deal of the right-of-way has been
encroached upon, if it were to be designated as a bicycle route, further
encroachment might be prevented, and there would be a distance along the
Ditch that could be developed for a bicycle route. Mrs. Romans pointed
out that attempts have been made in the local plan to tie in with the
neighborhood parks, also.
Mrs. Romans stated that it was suggested at the last 'meeting that an
article be published in the Englewood Citizen, along with a form for
citizens who were interested in participating on an ad hoc committee
for the bicycle trail system to submit. She stated that she spoke to
Ms. Peggy Gonder, editor of the Englewood Citizen, and was told that the
December issue was pretty well "set", but that this could be done in the
January, 1981, issue.
Mr. McBrayer stated that he hopes to have a story regarding the bicycle
trail system in both the Englewood Citizen and the Englewood Herald
Sentinel. The story in the Citizen would be in the January, 1981, issue,
and he said that he plans to contact the Sentinel in mid to late December,
1980. Mr. McBrayer stated that he felt a meeting of the four Commission
members who indicated they wanted to work on the Bicycle Trail System along
about mid-December would be wise, and would give them an opportunity to
organize the approach to the work ahead. He stated that he felt participa-
tion by other committee members could then begin in January.
Mrs. Pierson suggested that possibly the Commission members on the bicycle
trails committee would want to consider meeting on December i6th; there
is nothing on the agenda for the regular meeting at this point in time,
and this would be a regular meeting night .
Mr. McBrayer, Mr. Senti, Mr. Carson and Mr. Tanguma all indicated that
the evening of December 16th was satisfactory as a meeting date for the
ad hoc group.
Mr. McBrayer stated that he thought that posters announcing the formation
of the bicycle trails committee and asking for participation, could be
placed in bicycle shops and stores in Englewood and that this might get
some participants. The date for the first meeting of the ful£ ad hoc com-
mittee in January was discussed, and it was determined to set January 13th
as a tentative meeting date. Mr. McBrayer asked if the staff had a copy
of the Denver Bicycle Trail Plan? Mr. Tanguma stated that he had a friend
wh o was going to get him a copy. Mrs. Romans stated that the staff would
attempt to get a co py of the Denver Bicycle Trail Plan, and also of the
Littleton Bicycle Trail Plan. Mr. McBrayer stated that he would also be
in touch with Ms. Barbara Young, Associate Planner, to get t he names of
persons who have indicated an interest in a bicycle trail system in the
past. Mr. McBrayer stated that he has discussed the proposed bicycle trail
system with some people, and their reaction was that there would not be
funds appropriated for the implementation of such a system. He asked if
he could get a copy of the previous presentation to the City Council. Mrs.
Roman s stated that as she recalled, it did not go to City Co uncil ; the
Planning Co mmission held a public hearing on the proposed plan, and there
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was such opposition that the matter was dropped at the Commission level.
The matter of funding was further considered; Mr. McBrayer stated tha t he
felt the committee should be able to come up wi th a ballpark figure on
the cost of implementation. Mr. Carson suggest ed that p o ssibly s ome f unds
from the lottery which are to b e used for parks and recreation purpose s
might be made available.
Mr. McBrayer asked if copies of the minutes of the public hearing before
the Planning Commission could be available for perusal ? Mrs. Romans re-
plied in the affirmative.
Mr. McBrayer asked if the local plan was designed with the intent to "get
from one place to another", or only to "checkerboard" the City. Mr.
McBrayer stated that he felt the committee should look at the system to
be developed with an eye to continuity as far as the Denver and Littleton
systems go, and whether or not you can get to someplace from someplace,
for instance Cinderella City, or the downtown area.
Mr. Draper stated that people do not use bicycles on shopping trips. Mr.
Senti stated that he had recently seen slides that were taken in China
where bicycles are a primary means of transportation; he stated that they
have "rigs" they put on these bicycles to haul parcels, and do in fact
use the b i cycles for shopping trips. He stated that he felt this is
possible in _ this country now, and will become more so as the price of
gasoline increases. Mr. Senti stated that he remembered the initial
discussion and presentation of the bicycle trail system several years
ago, and the extremely poor reception that the proposal received. He
pointed out that the attitude of the citizenry has changed, as has the
overall attitude of the country.
Mr. McBrayer commented that the Denver Bicycle Trail System must be a
model because people from other states have inquired about the system
and asked for copies of the report and maps.
Mr. Barbre inquired of Mr. Senti the reason for the strong opposition
at the previous bicycle trail syst em presentat i on? Mr. Senti stated that
a lot of people seemed to feel that bicycles should not be allowed on
the streets.
Mr. McBrayer stated that the character of Englewood is changing; there
are more young families and a lot more people are riding bicycles. Further
discussion ensued. Mrs. Becker suggested that Mr. McBrayer might contact
the High School Leadership class to see if there might be some of the
students who would be interested in serving on the committee. Mr. Keller
also suggested that Mr. McBrayer might talk to Councilwoman Bradshaw about
student participation on the commi ttee.
Mr. Senti stated that he recently had an opportunity to view residential
development that Mr. McBrayer has done; he stated that it is very well
done, and that the landscaping and sprinkling system are installed. He
stated that while Mr. McBrayer may seem to be hard on applicants regarding
the matter of landscaping and sprinkling systems, he does install them on
his own developments, and the result is very nice. He commended Mr.
McBrayer on his work.
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Mr. McBrayer asked the outcome of the contact to Swedish Medical Center
regarding the matter of grading and cleaning up of the parking lots? •
Mrs. Romans stated that she had been contacted by Mr. Johnson of the Medical
Center the morning after the last meeting, and had conveyed to him the
concern expressed by the Commission over the uncompleted grading and the
poor clean-up of the lots. Mr. Johnson indicated that he would see to it
immediately; Mrs. Romans then contacted Mrs. Pierson, and it was determined
that the letter would not be sent in light of Mr. Johnson's willingness to
comply.
IV. DESIGN REVIEW CASE /133-80
Mrs. Romans stated that members of the Commission asked at the last Com-
mission meeting that the staff contact other communities to determine
whether they had a Design Review or Architectural Review Committee. The
staff has done this, anp the report from the communities was sent to the
Commission in the last packet. Most of the communities that have any type
of review have staff members who work with the developers, and do not have
a design review ordinance such as has been submitted to the Planning Com-
mission. Mrs. Romans pointed out that the proposed ordinance which is
before the Commission is the same ordinance that was proposed by the Multi-
family Standards Review Committee, of which Mr. Keller was chairman.
Mrs. Pierson asked when the staff could expect to get the Boulder Ordinance?
Mrs. Romans stated that the staff person from Boulder indicated it would be
sent; it has not been received to this time.
Mrs. Romans asked Mr. Keller if he recalled any of the discussion and con-
sideration at the time the Multi-family Standards Review Committee was
meeting? Mr. Keller stated that there had been too much time elapsed for
him to recall the specifics of any consideration given the design review
ordinance by the Multi-family Standards Review Committee. He stated that
upon review of the proposed ordinance now, howeve-r, he did feel there were
a couple of changes that should be made. Mr. Keller stated that he felt
it would be very important to have something on the books that would serve
as guidelines for the developments that will be going on in the downtown
area within the next five years. Mr. Keller stated that he anticipated
some major development in this time period, and that the Authority does,
in fact, know of three proposals in the works at the present time in the
area from Eastman to U. S. 285 on the west side of Broadway. Mr. Kell er
stated that he had talked to Mr. Bob Joyce, counsel for Mr. Bud Brady,
earlier in the day and Mr. Brady wants to start his proposal within the
next six months or so. He stated that there will be a meeting on December
1st to iron out the differences in the contract and the agreement between
the City, the Downtown Development Authority and the Developer. Mr. Keller
stated that the purpose of this contract is to assign the responsibility
of the design process. Mr. Keller stated that he understood that some
property owners on the west side of the 3400 block of South Broadway are
discussing the possibility of "pooling their properties", forming an in-
vestment entity, tearing down the existing buildings and beginning con-
struction under an entire new program.
Mrs. Pierson cautioned that the proposal probably would not be in effect
in time to have any effect on the developments that occur within the next
year or so. Discussion ensued.
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Mr. Keller stated that he would suggest the proposed ordinance be amended
so that the Chamber of Commerce is not involved in the appointment of members.
Discussion ensued.
Mr. Draper asked about the possibility of urban renewal and use of Federal
funds? Mr. Keller stated that Englewood does not qualify for any assistance
on this. He stated that the only reason to use Urban Renewal was the power
of eminent domain.
Mrs. Becker stated that she felt it would be of benefit to Englewood to
have a Design Review Committee. She stated that she felt it would have
been of benefit several years ago when it was initially considered.
Mrs. Pierson stated that at the last meeting she had suggested that drafting
the ordinance be kept within the scope of the Planning Commission, and that
an ad hoc committee not be appointed. However, she recalled that Mr. Bill
Howard was very interested in the matter of design review at the time he
was participating on the Comprehensive Plan ad hoc committees, and she is
now of the opinion that he should be asked to be of assistance to the Com-
mission. Mrs. Romans stated that perhaps someone from the Downtown Develop-
ment Authority should also be asked to participate, inasmuch as the Authority
has indicated they feel there is a need for such a design review ordinance.
Mr. Draper stated that he felt the developers have too many problems as
it is, and that this would compound problems for them.
Mr. Tanguma stated that if there is a design review committee, he felt
very strongly that it should be within the Planning and Zoning Commission;
he stated that the Commission is presently structured to work on matters
that would be considered by the design review committee, and he didn't
feel that it should be a separate body or "another layer of government."
Mrs. Romans stated that she felt this is a point that must be worked out
with the City Attorney and the City Council.
Mrs. Becker agreed that "time is money". Mr. McBrayer pointed out to Mr.
Draper that there arenorequirements in the preliminary draft that would
cost a developer more money; the only problem would be the matter of "time."
Discussion ensued. Mrs. Romans again pointed out that the members of the
Design Review Committee would have to be an official body appointed by the
City Council, and that the members would have to be qualified to rule on
the matters of architecture and design. Mr. Tanguma reiterated that this
is creating another layer of government and he wants to avoid this if at
all possible. Mrs.'Romans stated that she felt the matter before the Com-
mission now is to develop a strategy so that the Review Committee, if
appointed, can function.
Mr. Keller stated that if a project is not designed properly to begin with,
it will not turn out right; he stated that he felt it is most critical
that proper design of the projects be assured. He pointed out that it
doesn't cost any more to do a project correctly to begin with. Mr. Keller
stated that he felt it would be proper for a "lay person" to be on the
Design Review Committee, but that it should be composed primarily of pro-
fessional people qualified to pass judgement on the projects that are pro-
posed.
Mr. Draper asked if it was felt that a "professional" designer would work
without pay on such a committee? Mr. Keller stated that he felt such a
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professional person might want to be paid for the time spent in meetings,
but he did not feel it would be necessary that he be a member of the staff
or on a contract basis.
Mrs. Romans suggested that possibly there be two ad hoc connnittees, one
which would work on the bicycle trail system and one which would work on
the design review ordinance. It was the concensus that this was advisable,
and that both connnittees could meet the night of December 16th.
Mrs. Pierson asked who was interested in working on the design review com-
mittee? It was determined that Mr. Barbre, Mr. Draper, Mrs. Becker, Mrs.
Pierson and Mr. Williams would serve on the design review ad hoc connnittee.
V. PUBLIC FORUM.
Mr. James Keller, Executive Director of the Downtown Development Authority,
stated that he was present to discuss problems that have arisen in regard
to the parking lot the Authority is developing in the 3400 block on South
Lincoln Street. Mr. Keller stated that the Connnission approved the p a rking
lot layout with restrictions on October 21, 1980, and that one of the
restrictions was that there be decorative lighting standards installed
and used in lieu of the Public Service Company poles. Mr. Keller stated
that it has been discovered there is an unstable soil condition in the
parking lot, and they are running into an overrun on the costs from $10,000
to $15,000. Mr. Keller stated that there is a high water table in this
area which was not discovered until the old blacktop was removed from the
parking lot. Mr. Keller stated that the soils consultant and the City
Public Works Director, Kells Waggoner, were to meet at the site on November
19th to determine whether or not they have to remove another one foot of
soil on the parking lot before they can begin the surfacing and compaction.
Mr. Keller stated that the Public Service wooden poles that had been re-
moved from the lot have been used for firewood. There are three wooden
poles on the west side of the parking lot along the alley, and one wooden
pole on the east side of the parking lot that is used as a street light.
He suggested that perhaps these poles, which are owned by Public Service
Company, could be used for lighting purposes for the parking lot rather
than requiring the decorative lighting standards within the parking lot
itself. Mr. Keller stated that Public Service Company will allow the
EDDA to use these poles for their lighting purposes at a charge of $14.09
per month per light. The lighting fixture would be that typically on
PSC poles, and while not as attractive as that initially propO'Sed by the
EDDA, the illumination would be increased from a total of 165,000 lumens
to 200,000 lumens total. Mr. Keller stated that Public Service Company
had reconnnended that the total lumens should be increased to give proper
lighting in the parking lot at night. By using the Public Service Company
poles, and eliminating the decorative light standards that were recommended
by the Planning Connnission, the EDDA could light the parking lot at an in-
creased lumination volume for $8,650 less than was origina lly proposed.
Mr . Keller stated that regarding the electrical work and the s p rinkler
system, they were given a $5,000 credit on the removal of the thr ee poles •
in the lot, but would be charged $3,000 to run the line and insta ll the
facilities to a cconnnoda t e the sprinkler system connection. Mr. Keller
stated that he f elt this was r ather out of line, and would like to eli minate
a l l the electrical work on this contract, and pick it up at another time.
He stated that he would suggest . that the electrical work and the sprinkler
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system be done at the same time. He stated that he did not have any
figures on the cost estimates, but did not think it would be over $500
to do the electrical work for the sprinkler system.
Mrs. Becker asked if there was not prior testing done to determine the
water table on the site? Mr. Keller stated that there was no indication
there was a water table problem until they started removing the old sur-
f acing on the parking lot.
Mr. Keller stated that the total parking lot contract is for $91,000;
the EDDA will close on the Sachter property on Friday, November 21st, and
the pro-rated cost of improvements to the Sachter property would be about
$12,000. ..He pointed out that the north seven feet of the Sachter property
is to be landscaped.
Mr. McBrayer asked what point the EDDA was at with Chen Company; did they
do core testing? Mr. Keller stated that Chen representatives have been on
the lot; they initially noticed water near Hampden Avenue, but there had
been a water line in this area and they felt that it might be a leakage
from that line. However, when they did further work on the site, it was
determined that there is a water problem on the entire site. He stated
that there will be testing to determine what degree of compaction is needed
for the preparation of the site for the resurfacing.
Mrs. Becker .stated that she could not understand why someone would not
have known about the water table problem prior to this. Mr. Keller stated
that there had been a building or structure proposed on the site, soils
testing would have been done prior to beginning the work. Mr. Keller stated
that this parking lot is proposed as a permanent surface parking lot; he
could not estimate whether there would be sufficient need in the future
to construct a parking structure.
Mrs. Pierson stated that in discussions regarding the parking lot, it has
been brought out that one of the nice things about it is that it is evidence
that t h e Downtown Development Authority was trying to do something to "im-
prove" the downtown area. She stated that she i s greatly bothered that
whenever a problem occurs, the first proposal is to curtail aesthetic con-
siderations on a project. Mr. Ke ller pointed out that the volume of
lighting would be increased. Mrs. Pierson asked -if she understood that
the i ntent of the request is to ob tain permission to eliminate the decora-
tive light standards? Mr. Keller s tated that they are proposing to use
the Pub l ic Service Company poles a t a charge of $14.09 per month per light,
and to eliminate the decorative po l es, fixtures and installation costs.
Mrs. Becker stated that she has problems accepting this proposal. She
stated that she felt this parking lot must be attractive. She further
pointed out that the Planning Commi ssion has set very stringent require-
ments for the parking lots deve l oped by Swedish Medical Center, and she
questioned how the Planning Commiss i on could deviate from requirements
for one development and impose stringent requirements on another. Mrs.
Becker stated that she felt such a deviation could be considered as setting
a precedent, and she didn't think that the Commission wanted to do this.
Mr. Keller stated that he felt the parking lot needed to be well-lighted,
and that the "aesthetic lighting didn't provide enough light for safety."
Mrs. Becker asked if the wattage of the bulbs used in the decorative
lighting could not be increased ? Mr. Keller stated that it could not.
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Mr. McBrayer disagreed, and stated that the decorative lighting could be
installed to allow for a higher intensity lumination. Mrs. Pierson pointed
out that the decorative lighting volume is 80% of that that would be pro-
vided if the Public Service Company poles are used. She stated that she
hates to see the EDDA begin their work on the downtown area by "selling
out." Mr. Keller stated that the lighting that would have been provided
by the decorative units is adequate to walk, but would not really provide
adequate lighting to assure the "safety of women at night." Mrs. Pierson
asked why the "safety of women at night" was not of concern when the
initial proposal was made; it did not appear to be a matter of concern un-
til they ran into the water table problem and the need to save funds.
Mrs. Pierson stated that in her opinion, Mr. Keller's arguments "just
don't hang together."
Mr. Tanguma stated that he understood Mr. Keller's problem with the water
table, and also the fact that better lighting would be provided by using
the Public Service Comp~ny poles. However, he stated, you can have higher
intensity lighting and still have the decorative lighting standards. He
acknowledged that it will cost more, but that decorative lighting and the
higher intensity is available if persons are willing to pay for it.
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Mr. Keller stated that he felt the economical advantage would be a trade-
off to solve the problems with the water in the parking lot and the elimina-
tion of the decorative lighting standards.
Mr. McBrayer asked if there wasn't a contingency fund to take care of some
of the problems that arise. He stated that he hated to see something
deleted every time a small problem arises; he felt this would be "getting
off to a sorry start," and did not want to set this precedent •.
Mr. Keller stated that he was asked to run this proposal by the Connnission
to see if the Connnission would approve it; he stated that he.would report
back to his Executive Board.
Mr. McBrayer asked where the landscaping was supposed to be for this
parking lot? Mr. Keller stated that the landscaping is on the perimeter
of the site.
Becker moved:
Carson seconded: The Planning Commission not approve the modification
of the EDDA Parking Lot as presented this evening.
Mrs. Becker stated that she felt approval of this modification would set
a precedent for future planning; the Commission would be dealing differently
with two entities for the same type of project --namely Swedish Medical
Center and the Downtown Development Authority --on parking lot development,
and the Commission should be consistent in their requirements and the en-
forcement of those requirements.
Mr. Draper stated that he did not feel he was well enough informed to be
able to vote on this, and questioned that such modification would down-
grade the area that much. He pointed out that they would still have the
wooden poles there, and suggested that perhaps there could be some beauti-~
fication on the wooden poles that could be accomplished for less expense ~
than the decorative lighting standards that have been required. Mr. Keller
pointed out that the wooden poles are the property of Public Service Company,
and the EDDA c ould do nothing to them.
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The vote was called:
AYES: Becker, Barbre, Tanguma, Senti, Pierson, McBrayer, Carson
NAYS: Williams, Draper
The motion carried.
VI. DIRECTOR'S CHOICE
Mrs. Romans stated that she had received the report on the Emergency
Disaster Response Plan from the City Manager shortly after the last
meeting, and had sent it on to the Commission for their information.
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At the City Council meeting of November 17th, the City Council passed a
preliminary Ordinance on Mortgage Revenue Bonds.
Mr. Tanguma excused himself from the meeting.
Mrs. Romans discussed the Mortgage Revenue Bond program further, and noted
one or two minor changes that had been suggested in the preliminary ordinance.
VII. COMMISSION'S CHOICE
There was nothing brought up for discussion under Commission's Choice •
The meeting adjourned at 8:50 p.m.
Recording Secretary