HomeMy WebLinkAbout2009-11-17 PZC MINUTES•
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""Planning and Zoning Commi ssio n
Study Se ssio n -Signage Amendments
November 17 , 2009
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CITY OF ENGLEWOOD PLANNING AND ZONING CO MMISSIO N
REGULAR MEETING
November 17, 2009
I. CALL TO ORDER
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The regular meeting of the City Planning and Zoning Commission was called to order at
7:02 p .m . in the Community Development Conference Room of the Englewood Civic
Center, Chair Bleile presiding.
Present:
Absent:
Staff:
Blei le, Roth, King, Knoth, Fish, Brick, Ca londer
Welker, Krieger, Kinton (alternate)
Alan White, Community Development Director
Tricia Langon , Senior Planner
Nancy Reid, Assistant City Attorney
II . APPROVAL OF MINUTES
November 3, 2009
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Fish moved:
Knoth seconded: TO APPROVE THE NOVEMBER 3, 2009 MINUTES
Chair Bleile asked if there were any modifications or corrections .
Mr. Brick asked that the third paragraph on page 4 be amended to state he favored mural
Option #2 and not worry about the po litics.
Mr. Fish and Mr. Knoth accepted the Friendly Amendment.
AYES :
NAYS :
ABSTAIN:
ABSENT:
Roth , Knoth, Fish, King, Brick, Calonder
None
Bleile
Welker, Krieger
Motion carried .
111. UDC SIGN CODE ISSUES AND PRIORITIES
·~ Ms. Langon stated at the last meeting, Mr. Fish asked for help in understanding the
various components and what it would take to put them together for the sign code. She
said she struggled to find a way to present that. She noted the nine sheets of paper on the
wall with the following categories (components):
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' Planning and Zoning Commission
Study Sess ion -Signage Amendments
November 17, 2009
Page 2 of 5
1. Administration
2. Definitions
3. District Standards
4. Materials
5. Murals
6. Advertising Devices (non-sign )
7. Temporary Signs
8. Sign Types
9 . Other?
Before the Commission proceeded with arranging various slips of paper with issues (types
of signs , definitions, etc.) on them Ms . Langon presented a slide show on various examples
of signs. She noted none of the photos are located within the City of Englewood. The
Commission commented on the slides .
Mr. Brick suggested Staff bring guidelines to a public hearing where the public could make
statements whether they are for or against. The Commission would decide from there.
Chair Bleile noted the Commission just held a public hearing on medical marijuana and
only 3 people showed up. Mr. Brick said if the public doesn 't show up, that is not the
Commission's problem. Chair Bleile said he felt it was the Commission's obligation to
discuss the issue. Mr. Brick said the Commission talked last meeting about how important
the Commission's time is and how many priorities we have and to him the sign
amendments seem like small change . He said he believes it is important to the business
community and if the business people feel it is important they can attend the public
hearing. Staff understands the code and its problems very well and can bring the
Commission a set of recommendations. He said if there is something he doesn't like he'll
bring it up. Ms. Langon asked him if it's something you like what is that like based on, some
type of knowledge and background or just a like or dislike of something. Mr. Brick said in
his case he usually looks at issues from a community point of view. He said he has been a
businessman and is also a member of the community and would probably balance the
properness and aesthetics based on being a member of the community. He noted he has
also had to advertise having had a small business for over 20 years.
Ms. Reid suggested the code be broken down into sections to be discussed one at a time
with Staff providing examples. Ms. Langon said her purpose at tonight's meeting was to
answer Mr. Fish's questions from the last meeting ... what is there to be done and how do
we get a handle on what needs to be done.
Mr. King said the signs for new businesses that have gone in lately seem to be tastefully
done. He said that is somewhat a result of the current sign code, but also could be a result
of the businesses being a franchise and having their own guidelines to go by. You can't
really change the existing signs; all you can regulate are the new ones that come in and
they seem to already be tastefully done. Mr. Calonder said there are some businesses that
are not happy and are seeking changes to the code .
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·Planning and Zoning Commission
Study Sessio n -S ignage Amen dmen ts
No ve mber 17, 2009
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Mr. Calonder asked Ms . Langon if the sign code is so bad that the Commission needs to
start over. She said that is an option, but the Department doesn 't believe Engl ewoo d's basi c
sign regulations are that far off from other communities. There are a lot of tweaks that ne ed
to be done, but are not way out of line. She noted technologies have changed in the past
few years and need to be included in the code .
Director White said the current code references over 60 definitions of signs . One of th e
best things the Commission can do is to simplify the code. He suggested using a chart
format with illustrations . He also noted there are two sign codes ; one for the South
Broadway corridor and one for the rest of the City . He suggested combining the two . Th e
code needs to be simplified and made understandable.
Chair Bleile said he believes the Commission is not afraid to tackle any challen ge that
comes forward to them and believes the sign code amendments are something the
members could take on. He doesn't believe it should be left strictl y to Staff to sa y here it
is ... bless it or don 't bles s it. The Commission should provide input as that is the role of th e
Commission, especially since there ty pi ca ll y isn 't a good public turn out at th e publi c
hearings . Lastl y, he said he doesn 't believe the City is really messed up with signs, but
would be more inclined to define some of the examples that drive the perception that the
sign code needs to be changed .
Ms. Reid noted there will be basic sign code issues that will not need to be changed (ca n't
block traffic, etc); changes could include issues like the South Broadway Sign Cod e. Th at
Code came about approximately 10 years ago and the stated purpose was to allo w special
signs in that area. The Commission could look into whether or not those goals have been
accomplished and if not, maybe it should be changed.
Chair Bleile said he feels it is the Commission's responsibility to outline three or four things
we want to see improved and after several meetings see if we have met our objectives.
Several Commissioners felt Staff had already done that.
Ms . Langon noted that at the last meeting Commission presented three objectives for th e
sign code:
1. Meets the needs of the business community;
2. Meets administrative needs ; and
3. Does it meet the community character?
The third objective is where Staff especially needs the Commission 's input.
At this time, Ms. Langon asked the Commission to help her place the slips of paper with
issues on them on the nin e category sheets. She noted some issues could be placed in
several categories .
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' Planning and Zoning Commission
Study Session -Signage Amendments
November 17, 2009
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Mr. Calonder stated that when he owned a restaurant in Raleigh there was a very
restrictive, horrible sign code. He said he chose to pay the fine on a daily basis rather than
go by the sign code. We should be very aware of how restrictive we are being to the
business community versus what we think we want as we drive down Broadway once a
week. The business owners live and die by this. Chair Bleile agreed. Mr. King said he
experienced the same thing with one of his businesses. Mr. Calonder said the small
business owners are entrepreneurs and by definition they will find a way to put their sign
up so let's help them do it and in a user friendly way .
The Commissioners continued with the exercise of placing the issues on the category
sheets and discussing each. Mr. Calonder asked what the purpose of the exercise was. Ms.
Langon stated it was to help each of you see that a lot of the sign issues are intermixed;
there aren't clear lines between the different categories and issu es. Zoning is not black and
white. The trouble is the words are black and white when you put them into the Ordinance
and into law, but the world out there is pretty gray . Mr. Calonder asked where we go from
here.
Ms . Langon said can we combine things? A major section is materials and there is currently
nothing in the City's code regarding what a sign can be made of. Should there be? From a
Staff perspective she said Definitions and Sign Types/Temporary Signs are priority and
where we begin. We need to know what we are talking about. The definitions need to be
established before we can move forward. Several agreed illustrations will also be necessary .
Discussion ensued .
Ms. Langon 's suggestion would be to start with the Types and Definitions . Staff will bring
that to the Commission for review and discussion. Staff will compare what we have today,
what the industry terminology is and what is in other codes. Staff will work on the
Administrative category with the City Attorney's office.
Director White said the standards may not require many, if any, changes at all once
everything has been cross-referenced. Mr. Calonder asked if the Commission finds
guidelines that are totally illogical can they simply be removed.
Ms. Langon said the District Standards probably are not going to change that much. There
will be some areas Staff can bring to the Commission mostly completed, but other areas
will require a lot of discussion.
IV. PUBLIC FORUM
~ There was no public present.
V. DIRECTOR'S CHOICE
~ Director White had nothing further to report.
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Study Session -Signage Amendments
November 17, 2009
Page 5 of 5
VI.
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STAFF'S CHOICE
Future Meetings: December 8 : 2009 Year-end and 2010 Priorities
December 22 : Meeting Cancelled
Ms. Langon reminded the Commission the December 8 1h meeting will begin at 6:30 with a
dinner; the meeting will follow at 7:00 . It will be held in the City Council Conference Room .
VII. ATTORNEY'S CHOICE
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Ms. Reid commented about a commercial property that has made improvements to their
landscaping and how nice it looks . It's taken almost 10 years to reap the rewards of past
amendme nts , but it is well worth it. She said it will be the same with the sign code
amendments .. .it is long range planning and very time consuming, but well worth it.
VIII. COMMISSIONER'S CHOICE
~ Mr. Roth noted one of his favorite signs in Englewood is on Hwy. 285; a hieroglyphic
informational sign for the library.
The meeting adjourned at 8:45 p.m .
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Barbara Krecklowyecording Secretary